Bluenile cut grading - Advice please

[gman007]

I am looking at this specific GIA 2146829068 stone graded as “Good” , I know bluenile hasn’t seen this nor they have any pictures.

It’s a princess cut, 1.2 Carat – VS1 – G color (GIA certified)
Symmetry – very good
Polish – excellent
Fluorescence – none
Table 75%
Depth 76%
Girdle – very thick.
L/W ratio – 1.03
Only inclusions are one feather type in an edge, so I was told this could be even better than VS1.

Anyone has experience buying from Bluenile and their cut grading, could you please shed me some light please?

Appreciate it very much.

 

[diamondloveaffair]

why did you have to repost this?

 

[tyty333]

That GIA report number you gave does not match the numbers you posted.

The problem isnt the clarity...the problem is that you can't see this stone and you have no idea what the faceting
pattern looks like. Also, with only a "Good" cut the chances of its light return being good are probably slim.

 

[TC1987]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/question-regarding-gia-princess-cut-grading-and-performance.175635/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/question-regarding-gia-princess-cut-grading-and-performance.175635/[/URL]
and
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/princess-cut-diamond

 

[gman007]

That GIA report number you gave does not match the numbers you posted.

The problem isnt the clarity...the problem is that you can't see this stone and you have no idea what the faceting
pattern looks like. Also, with only a "Good" cut the chances of its light return being good are probably slim.

Sorry its not G color, its H color.

I called blue nile and request an explanation of how they grade the stones without seeing it. They have a grading system that accounts for polish, symmetry, depth %, table %, girdle so its all very technical. Sometimes their "good" cut quality stones could be better than "very good" or Poor. It could go either way. They sent me a 10xmagnified picture, it looks very very clean but doesn't seem that much life in the stone. Take a look and advice. Thanks

 

[denverappraiser]

'Life' is not something you can see in a photograph.

As far as the dealer's scale goes, if they're not prepared to explain what the differences are between 'good', 'very' good', 'super duper', or whatever else is on the scale then it's not a useful metric. It might not be useful anyway but a score with no scale fails the first cut and is of no use whatever.

 

[gman007]

Like I explained, bluenile buy the diamond from foreign suppliers and they won’t see the stone until someone buys it. Bluenile it self said they rate the stones based on GIA specs, which is not enough. So technically a bluenile “Good” rating could be even better “Excellent” or could be worst. Looking at the GIA report there’s no possibility it could look worst. NO fluorescence is the key, and stone looks flawless even at 10x magnification.

Any experts could shed some light?

 

[sha4000]

Even the experts can't tell you anything about this stone since it's a fancy cut stone and at the very least you would need an Aset and Ideal scope image. From what I have heard Blue Nile does not provide those so you would have to get the stone have it checked out and then decide for yourself. I would rather go with one of the forum vendors who could provide some of these things for you. B2C is where I purchased my stone and even though they did not have it in house they were very helpful and provided me with all the images as well as confirmed how good the diamond was once they did receive it. Plus they were less expensive than all the other vendors if that matters to you.

 

[Christina...]

Like I explained, bluenile buy the diamond from foreign suppliers and they won’t see the stone until someone buys it. Bluenile it self said they rate the stones based on GIA specs, which is not enough. So technically a bluenile “Good” rating could be even better “Excellent” or could be worst. Looking at the GIA report there’s no possibility it could look worst. NO fluorescence is the key, and stone looks flawless even at 10x magnification.

Any experts could shed some light?

How do you know this without the stone being evaluated by a professional? Why do you assume that the absence of fluorescence indicates that the stone is superior? I would strongly advise you to work with a vendor that can provide you with more information, a vendor that can assess the stone for you and act as your 'eyes'. It's impossible to judge how a fancy cut will perform based on numbers from the report, table and depth are only the very beginning of determining light performance. Is there a reason you prefer to work with BN? Would you consider other trusted vendors?

 

[gman007]

Thank you so much for the info.

@Christina

My vendor found this stone last week from Asia. He works for my friend, who runs his own whole selling business. I completely trust his word as they have been in business for the past 40+ years.

Yesterday, I saw the same diamond (Same GIA report #) at blue nile. So BN was a bit late to locate the diamond and put this on their website. The stone is still with the original supplier from Asia. In BN website they graded the cut quality as “good”.

The vendor guaranteed that these stones reach them first because they are superior diamonds with good $/carat. He was keeping an eye for me and his contact in Asia made this recommendation upon his request. I believe him because BN only posted this yesterday on their website. So I have to take his word and go with his recommendation. I know two other people he found similar stones and they are absolutely gorgeous plus the 20-25% savings is a blessing.

 

[Christina...]

If you trust your friend and you are buying with a good return policy, then I guess go for it. BUT, I can tell you that there are several alarm bells in your previous posts that have me concerned and I would recommend that you do a lot of research about this particular cut before you make this deal. Good Luck to you!

 

[gman007]

If you trust your friend and you are buying with a good return policy, then I guess go for it. BUT, I can tell you that there are several alarm bells in your previous posts that have me concerned and I would recommend that you do a lot of research about this particular cut before you make this deal. Good Luck to you!

@Christina, could you tell me what are the concerns from your perspective?
I evaluated depth%, table% and girdle to be the few warning signs for me. However my friend recommended these are just numbers and his suppliers guaranteed the optics of the diamond.

Would always like to see it from your perspective. thanks

 

[04diamond<3]

The table, to me is a bit big. Also, in regards to your comment about the certificate only saying the cut is "good", with any other cut (other than rounds), you absolutely cannot discard the diamond because the cut grade on the certificate is only "good". There are some gorgeous stones that only have a "good" cut according to GIA or any other grader, but can out perform an "excellent" cut, so I wouldn't worry about it. My only issue with the diamond is the table being a bit large, and a hair deep. *But*, if you saw the diamond and you like the way it performs, then go for it.

**Edit to add that the picture is actually nice, just the table a bit big. But again, if you like it and like the way it looks and performs, then get it.

 

[Christina...]

GIA doesn't assign a cut grade for any fancy shape stone, so if someone informed you that this stone is a GIA 'good' cut then that simply isn't true. Blue Nile may have listed the stone under their 'good' category, but as mentioned before, they classify cut based on two measurements, table and depth, which simply isn't enough (not even if you toss the girdle in there) and is only their opinion of what 'good' table and depth proportions are.

Diamonds are listed on huge data bases and made available to dealers, they are not sorted according to their beauty and value and offered to a select group of people, when the stones are listed they become available to anyone with access to that list and they aren't offered to online vendors at a later date than BM's. A possible reason that this particular stone showed up on BN website after your jeweler suggested it to you may simply be because of how and when BN enters data onto their online inventory.

I'm assuming that your friend the jeweler told you that the lack of fluorescence is the key to finding a beautiful stone. This is nonsense. Many many posters here prefer stones with fluoro and find it to be a very cool characteristic of the diamond. BM vendors like to tell their clients that fluorescence is responsible for making diamonds appear milky and or hazy, but this simply isn't true either, and GIA has been very careful not to say that fluorescence is the culprit for this effect in the tiny minority of stones that are effected. In fact a popular online vendor offers a line with nothing but ideally cut diamonds with blue fluorescence and it's extremely popular.

I can't remember how many facets a princess cut has, I think traditionally 50-58, all of those facets have to work together to produce a stone with superior light performance. Your friend is trying to convince you that the table depth and girdle are all that is necessary to create a beautiful stone, again, this isn't true. You can have great table and depth percentages and still have a dark, dead and crappy diamond. Equally important to the table and depth is the crown height and the pavilion facet proportions and have they work together, this information isn't available on a GIA report, and is why we keep recommending working with a vendor that can provide you with ASET images. These images will allow you to see how the stone handles light, where it is coming from and if there is any leakage in the stone. At the very least you need to work with someone of is capable of judging a stones light performance, and I question whether or not your friend is capable of doing that , BN certainly isn't capable of it. The fact that the stone was suggested by a dealer means little to me, the dealer owns the stone, he wants to sell you that stone. He can claim that it will sing Happy Birthday to you if he wants, but that doesn't make it true. Now this doesn't mean that the diamond isn't beautiful, it just means that NO ONE so far is in a position to honestly determine that. There simply isn't enough information available at this time and you aren't working with anyone that can provide you with that information.

If you want to buy from your friend, then I would suggest that you ask him to find you a AGS0 princess cut with your desired specs. AGS is the only lab currently grading fancy cuts for light performance therefore it's much easier to find a stone with superior LP. If you prefer to purchase from an online vendor because of the competitive pricing than you should consider asking another vendor to call this same stone in for you for evaluation and images ( yes it's likely available to them too). I personally would contact ID Jewelers and ask them to bring it in for you, they are able to provide you all the information that you need and they guarantee that they will beat BN prices, so win win right?

Lastly, we hear many stories about people who purchased their stone from a friend, friend of a friend, or family member, I can't recall a single time when it has worked out happily. Relationships are often trashed and no one ends up happy. We just don't recommend it. You are paying a lot of money for this stone, do it right!

 

[chrono]

Christina explained everything so well I might as well write "+1".

 

[doberman]

I'm assuming that your friend the jeweler told you that the lack of fluorescence is the key to finding a beautiful stone. This is nonsense. Many many posters here prefer stones with fluoro and find it to be a very cool characteristic of the diamond. BM vendors like to tell their clients that fluorescence is responsible for making diamonds appear milky and or hazy, but this simply isn't true either, and GIA has been very careful not to say that fluorescence is the culprit for this effect in the tiny minority of stones that are effected. In fact a popular online vendor offers a line with nothing but ideally cut diamonds with blue fluorescence and it's extremely popular.

Totally agree with every word in Christina's post. I find that despite all the info out there from reputable sources there are still sellers telling people that fluorescence will result in a cloudy, milky, oily stone, so stay away. Well, my pear ring has faint fluorescence and it has none of those negative characteristics.

If you want to buy from your friend, then I would suggest that you ask him to find you a AGS0 princess cut with your desired specs. AGS is the only lab currently grading fancy cuts for light performance therefore it's much easier to find a stone with superior LP.

This is a good idea. Since you asked about Blue Nile, they have Signature diamonds, some of which are AGS0. My RB is a BN Signature AGS0; I purchased it from the original owner who never had it set.

 

[gman007]

THanks for the advice. I know im late to reply. But i purchased the diamond. I just felt this diamond was not as bad as the red flags issued by the members.
I also saw it, its an absolute beauty. The only inclusions were couple of feathers which we couldn't even find under 10 x magnifications. I felt GIA was quite strict on grading it, it could be even a VVS2. Optics are beautiful. We put it under spot light with few other stones they had and i am so satisfied with the fire, brilliance and scintillation.
But i must admit, Christina is absolutely correct on the purchase procedure. None of the whole sellers see the diamond before someone actually purchase it. I was quite disappointed that big name companies like bluenile, whiteflash has no idea what the stone looks like. They only grade the cut quality based on table, depth %, polish symmetry ect which could be quite deceiving sometimes. So lightscope or any other analysis could ENHANCE the confidence for the buyer. But you also have to understand it’s a computer software. I use computer simulation for engineering work I do, if you enter one wrong decimal, then all your results will be wrong. We called it “junk in-junk out”. So seeing the stone or else going with someone highly knowledgeable/reputable is the only way to build confidence in what you are buying.
My friend was quite upfront about the deal. He said he wouldn’t make 25%-30% profit like other whole sellers. His profit from the stone was about 2-3%. I know this for a fact after comparing the prices from blue nile and my agents.
Im glad I made the purchase, looking for settings now. Going with tapered baguette style. Once I receive the engagement ring, I will post picture.
Thanks, especially to Christina and the rest.

 

[Christina...]

I'm super happy that it worked out for you and that you love the stone. At the end of the day THAT is what matters. I would only encourage you to view the stone in many many different lighting environment during the return period. I know that you had opportunity to view it under spot lighting and you were satisfied, but spot lighting is the most flattering environment in which to view a stone, and the most infrequent viewing environment IRL. Be sure that you are happy with the stone in conditions that you will most often be viewing it!

I also just wanted to clarify, that while it is true that WF does not see any of the stones listed in their virtual inventory, this is not the case for their ACAs, expert selection and select stones, which are in house and available to them for review. The difference between WF and BN is that WF will call in a virtual stone and evaluate for an interested party. They can and will provide the necessary information needed to determine the stones light performance and judge eye cleanliness. This is true for most of the recommended PS vendors. JA has no 'in house' stones, yet they are able to provide additional information for clients, others like GOG BGD BC2, etc also can call in virtual stones for evaluationas well. BN is unique in that they don't offer this for anything other than their signature select line.

Looking forward to seeing your big reveal OP!