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Blue Nile, James Allen? Fitting into budget... I need help!

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SalanG

Rough_Rock
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Aug 2, 2009
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I have been on the hunt for the best diamond I can fit into my budget.

She and I picked out the wedding band together a few months ago, so I bought the matching engagement setting. It is a very simple white gold band with 5 round diamonds on each side of the setting. It''s a thin band so the carat weight is only about .45.

Now the tricky part, finding the diamond...

I have been to the local stores but I just can''t justify paying a heavy premium over the internet . I am leaning towards Blue Nile because I feel like they are most reputable. James Allen also sparks my interest because the virtual magnifying glass. Are these two sites a good choice?

What I am looking for is a colorless (D-F), Ideal Cut, and eye clean? The g/f is hoping for a 1ct which I don''t think can be done at my budget ($4500 but would prefer to stay under $4000) but I think it is attainable for a stone around .90-93. Is this a notable difference?

I want to buy a ring she is never going to want to upgrade...any help would be great!
 
Date: 8/2/2009 9:32:45 PM
Author: SalanG
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1248046.asp

To me this looks like a good diamond, but there are black accents in the zoom feature...is a special camera being used?
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the black arrows bc those are not visible IRL...sometimes you get a glimpse but nothing as dark as in the picture.

The diamond you linked is a little too deep, I would pass on it.

Here are some:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1204041.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1229210.asp

Get IS image for the G, IS looks good on the F
EDT: Yes, Jamesallen is a great vendor I prefer them over bluenile but they are good too...
 
The angles on that diamond compliment each other well, it could be a good choice. An Idealscope image would tell a lot more, you can request JA provide one. The overall depth could make it face up slightly smaller than some other diamonds of similar carat weight.

The difference between a well cut 1ct and this diamond is about .3mm. Side by side you could tell a difference is size, but seeing a .90 stone by itself, it wouldn't be noticeable.

EDT: The black arrows occur when something, in this case the camera, blocks light from reaching those areas of the diamond. As Breann mentioned, they rarely that visible in real life as black, they are usually silver in most viewing situations.

James Allen is a very reputable company. I would prefer them to BN because of how they operate. Blue Nile is a drop shipper who never sees the diamonds they sell and cannot provide any images. James Allen brings every stone in to be evaluated by one of their staff before shipping so can verify eye-clean. They also provide picture and Idealscope images. Buying a diamond from BN is fine, and many PS members have done it. They have an excellent return policy if something isn't quite right. I just prefer the way JA functions.
 
BN and JA are both reputible dealers; I would go with JA because they seem to be a little cheaper and will get you images of the diamonds you are interested in purchasing. Since you want a 1 ct would you consider going down in the near colorless range? That will save you some money so you can get a larger diamond.
 
I''m torn because she is shooting for a carat but I am shooting for a colorless, ideal cut, eye clean in my price range. The hearts and arrows diamond above looked nice, the cert is a little blurry though. I am weary about an SI2...would it be eye clean? Also, is a hearts an arrow worth the money over an ideal cut? Why does buying a little rock worth thousands have to be so difficult?
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Date: 8/3/2009 7:44:29 AM
Author: SalanG
I''m torn because she is shooting for a carat but I am shooting for a colorless, ideal cut, eye clean in my price range. The hearts and arrows diamond above looked nice, the cert is a little blurry though. I am weary about an SI2...would it be eye clean? Also, is a hearts an arrow worth the money over an ideal cut? Why does buying a little rock worth thousands have to be so difficult?
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Click to expand...
Some SI2 will be eyeclean and others might not, the trick is to make your expectations clear to a vendor who can physically inspect the stone, for example if you don''t want to see any inclusions from any angle at close scrutiny, make sure you tell the vendor that so you are both on the same page. As to whether a h&a is worth the extra, that depends. To some they want a diamond which shows perfect h&a which is cut to top standards in every way, others prefer just a well cut diamond and aren''t bothered about h&a patterning. You might also find some well cut diamonds exhibit h&a patterning but in actual fact don''t meet the strict standards expected of a '' true'' h&a, it just depends on what you want personally.
 
I would give her what she wants, subject to not compromising too much on cut or eye-clean clarity - she is the one who will be wearing the ring all day long and chatting to friends/colleagues about it.
Some things really seem to matter to women and I suspect that the 1ct level is very important to her.
Perhaps some of her friends have 1ct stones. Perhaps she expects to be asked "how big?" and would be slightly ashamed to admit to being under 1ct.

Fancy shapes tend to sell for less than rounds. You might be able to find a suitable 1ct, F-colour, VS2 clarity "fancy" within your budget.
 
When you picked out the wedding set, did you look at diamonds? Can you tell the difference between, say, a D and a G or a G and an I? I don't mean could you tell the difference when they were face down on a white background, but could you tell the difference when they were set in rings and on fingers? Remember, Tiffany's carries down to I color, and they wouldn't do that if it was considered low quality. It's just slightly warmer. Did your girlfriend make any comments like, "Ew, look at this disgusting H colored stone, how heinous"?
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Remember that it's pretty easy to see the difference when a sales assistant points it out to you; it's much harder to gauge color in a ring that you only see on someone's finger. Color might not be your girlfriend's top priority if she knows that it would make a carat unattainable.

I ask because I would hate to see your girlfriend's preference be the first thing on your list that you cut. I'd either wait a few months (or get creative and sell some things on Craigslist) to bump your budget up a little, or consider H-I, eye-clean SI stones. (Something like this 1.03 H SI2 from Good Old Gold.) I'm not saying to go and buy your girlfriend a P colored stone or anything, just that it might take some creativity to get her what she wants.
 
Ive looked at about 20 stones under microscope, she hasn''t looked at any. She doesn''t know a .75 from 1.25ct. I honestly think she rather have a diamond that "pops" but without having her compare a .93 E ideal to a 1.03 H very good in person, I don''t think she will get that there are other things that make the diamond look good. I almost bought the one I listed first last night. The ring would have come months ago but we bought a house together so money was tight for a couple months.

I am going to St Thomas next month, maybe I should give diamonds international a shot? I am leaning towards James Allen because it seems a little bit cheaper than Blue Nile. I will be checking back in throughout the day and maybe buying tonight. I would prefer not to wait another 2-3 months for the big day. If any of you see something that can make me feel comfortable about the purchase let me know! You''ve all been extremely helpful, I''m glad I found the site!
 
You mention wanting to buy a ring that she will never want to upgrade.
She probably won''t be happy until she has that 1ct ring.

I am currently on the lookout for "interesting" diamond(s) to go into a "novelty" ring for the Mrs.
When I asked her preferences, she said:

>1ct. (below 1ct would be a big disappointment)
Eye clean (preferably VS, but down to SI2 is acceptable).
Colourless when mounted (preferably D-F, but down to H is acceptable).

She doesn''t care whether the ring has one, two or three stones, as long as the total weight exceeds 1ct (e.g. 3x 0.34ct, 2x 0.51ct, 1x 1.01ct).

It seems as if almost every woman dreams of owning a 1ct diamond.

In view of my Mrs'' preferences, I have shortlisted several stones in the F-H range.
In order of the likelihood of me buying them:
1. H/SI (this stone is an AGS-0 ideal cut)
2. G/VS
3. H/VS
4. F/VS - this stone is just below 1ct, so is highly unlikely that I will choose it, because she will be very disappointed.
 
Salan,
Take a look at this diamond (less than $4k)
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6197/

Talk to the guys at GOG to see how it looks in person and about whether eye-clean.
They also make videos so if you like what they have to say maybe they will make a
video for you.

tyty
 
Thoughts and comments on these ones...
 
This is much easier in person, does everyone agree though that the money saved is in the thousands when buying online?
 
Door #1
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1249132.asp
 
Door #2
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1251650.asp
 
Door #3
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1231413.asp
 
Door #4
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1227611.asp
 
Door #5
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1127728.asp

I think anything below SI1 is going to get crossed off the list. It''s a lot of money to spend so I''m going to be picky :)
 
 
Date: 8/3/2009 12:14:12 PM
Author: SalanG
Thoughts and comments on these ones...

This is much easier in person, does everyone agree though that the money saved is in the thousands when buying online?

Door #1
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1249132.asp

Door #2
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1251650.asp

Door #3
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1231413.asp

Door #4
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1227611.asp

Door #5
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1127728.asp

I think anything below SI1 is going to get crossed off the list. It's a lot of money to spend so I'm going to be picky :)
Click to expand...
The first four are all borderline steep/deep and the last one the pavillion is so shallow that it could have obstruction issues. #1 and #2 may be worth getting IS images on. I'd pass on the other three.
 
When searching,what should I be looking at for demensions? I''m not sure what is too deep or what to look for in a pavilion...I was just looking at "ideal" cut stones...
32.gif


thanks again for all the help, everyone here has been great!
 
Lorelei's got a "cheat sheet" for basic screening of numbers on rounds. I'll see if I can find it, or she might drop in and get it posted.

EDT: Here you go, courtesy of Lorelei and John Pollard

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4 - 62.6%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also ' cliff's notes' from John P to assist further.

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

"With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."

EDT2: I would also add that while 54-57% table is in keeping with Tolkowsky/ideal, there are some great diamonds out there with slightly larger tables (up to 60%). The angles are the most critical, so if you are searching and find a 58-60% table with great angles, it would be woth considering. James Allen will mark anything with a table that size as Premium, so make sure to include those when searching.

You can run the numbers of a diamond through the Holloway Cut Advisor https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp with the idea of screening out diamonds that score above 2. Stones that score under 2 may be worth further evaluation.
 
This diamond scores a 1.5

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-866263

at 1ct, colorless and just inside the budget, is it a winner?
 
Just looked at the "real diamond image" and it looks yellow and dirty. Looks like the specs are not all they are made out to e on that one.
 
Date: 8/3/2009 1:28:05 PM
Author: SalanG
This diamond scores a 1.5

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-866263

at 1ct, colorless and just inside the budget, is it a winner?
Click to expand...
Your link is not working...so we cant look at the stone.
 
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-866263.asp

sorry, I cut the end off
 
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1238414.asp

thoughts?
 
I would prefer something of better color, I want to make sure the diamond has a good sparkle. I spoke with someone at jamesallen and theysaid that the si2 from above was eye clean. Sorry about the links, I''m on an iPhone. This website is blocked at work, no message boards allowed.

Without using diamond terms I guess the goal is having her get her way and be able to say she has a 1ct...and my preference of eye clean, non yellow stone that has "fire". I think I am relying too much on the specs and can''t really picture them. I see h I think yellow, si as dirty, the first jeweler I went to brought out the .6-.7 flawless diamonds and then 1ct si, h''s. I think she got me all screwed up!
 
Date: 8/3/2009 3:37:04 PM
Author: SalanG
I would prefer something of better color, I want to make sure the diamond has a good sparkle. I spoke with someone at jamesallen and theysaid that the si2 from above was eye clean. Sorry about the links, I''m on an iPhone. This website is blocked at work, no message boards allowed.

Without using diamond terms I guess the goal is having her get her way and be able to say she has a 1ct...and my preference of eye clean, non yellow stone that has ''fire''. I think I am relying too much on the specs and can''t really picture them. I see h I think yellow, si as dirty, the first jeweler I went to brought out the .6-.7 flawless diamonds and then 1ct si, h''s. I think she got me all screwed up!
Click to expand...
Cut is what will determine how well a diamond sparkles, not color or clarity, despite what some jewelry stores will try to tell you. The other issue is that poorly cut and poorly graded stones don''t give an accurate representation of what a well cut AGS or GIA graded diamond will look like. To help you overcome part of that, here is a video on diamond color by Jon at Good Old Gold. It does a great job of showing how subtle the color variations in well cut stones are. A G, H or even I color will face up very white.

http://vimeo.com/3288695
 
Date: 8/3/2009 3:42:28 PM
Author: jet2ks
Date: 8/3/2009 3:37:04 PM

Author: SalanG

I would prefer something of better color, I want to make sure the diamond has a good sparkle. I spoke with someone at jamesallen and theysaid that the si2 from above was eye clean. Sorry about the links, I''m on an iPhone. This website is blocked at work, no message boards allowed.

Without using diamond terms I guess the goal is having her get her way and be able to say she has a 1ct...and my preference of eye clean, non yellow stone that has ''fire''. I think I am relying too much on the specs and can''t really picture them. I see h I think yellow, si as dirty, the first jeweler I went to brought out the .6-.7 flawless diamonds and then 1ct si, h''s. I think she got me all screwed up!
Click to expand...

Cut is what will determine how well a diamond sparkles, not color or clarity, despite what some jewelry stores will try to tell you. The other issue is that poorly cut and poorly graded stones don''t give an accurate representation of what a well cut AGS or GIA graded diamond will look like. To help you overcome part of that, here is a video on diamond color by Jon at Good Old Gold. It does a great job of showing how subtle the color variations in well cut stones are. A G, H or even I color will face up very white.

http://vimeo.com/3288695
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
Spoke with someone at James Allen today and they were awesome...hopefully, here a five diamonds they picked out to match the specifications I was given in the forum:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/diamond-comparison.asp?p=1248046,1231413,1239719,1249132,1251650


Diamond 1 GIA
6.26*6.31*3.93
0.96, ideal, E, SI1
Depth 62.5
Table 57



Diamond 2 GIA
6.27*6.32*3.90
0.95, ideal, G, SI1
Depth 62
Table 57


Diamond 3 AGS
6.39*6.43*4.01
1.00, ideal, G, SI1
Depth 62.6
Table 53


Diamond 4 GIA
6.21*6.15*3.87
0.93, ideal, G, VS1
Depth 62.6
Table 57



Diamond 5 AGS
6.28*6.32*3.91
0.96, ideal, G, SI1
Depth 62.1
Table 57
 
Cut Scores
1 - 2.7
2 - 2.4
3 - 2.5
4 - 1.8
5 - 2.3

Looks like 4 are ruled out...1 is iffy


40.gif


lol, just realized this is the first diamond i looked at yesterday, I've gone full circle, oh dear
 
If you look, three of the five are ones you picked out yesterday. Would you be willing to consider an H color? If you are near a Jared's, go look at some of their Peerless diamonds for a live color comparison, a Hearts on Fire dealer would also have well cut stones. I think you would find that an H looks very white and would greatly expand what is available for your budget.

If so, this one could be a contender.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1251629.asp


Something is going to have to give in your search, either size, color, or budget.

EDT: I'd still ask for an IS for the first one you picked yesterday (#4 in above) The angles do work together very well. It is not considered iffy by the HCA, that is a pass/fail tool and the diamond scored under 2, so is a pass and worthy of further evaluation.
 
Glad to help. I felt the same way about learning. PS taught me more in a few hours of reading than all the jewelers and other websites combined.

For your poll, you will get a lot better response if you sort it down to about four diamonds on your own--10 is just too many to expect people to look through. Since all score well on the HCA, look at size (not just weight, but also diameter), color, clarity and budget. Which ones come the closest to what would be the perfect diamond for you. Ask about those four and keep the others as backups. James Allen will provide up to three IS images, so you will need to get it narrowed down that far before asking for those.
 
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