fiftysevenfacets
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2009
- Messages
- 37
Can you please? What are your concerns?Date: 11/18/2009 5:16:09 PM
Author: Gleam
Can you elaborate a bit? I did a simple google search and didn't see any red flags.
I live around the corner from a jeweler that exclusively sells Canadian diamonds. I not only almost fell over at the prices they were asking, but they didn't even have the size I wanted. I was told it's very rare to find anything over 2 carats in Canada.
True. And by 2016 production may be closer to 1/3 of the world''s supply. The Northwest Territories is already famous, and currently a mining operation in Saskatchewan is being created atop the world’s largest existing diamondiferous kimberlite field.Date: 11/19/2009 9:06:45 AM
Author: Karl_K
''Canadian Diamonds
In the last twenty years, Canada has become the world''s third largest diamond supplier, producing approximately 15% of the world''s diamonds. Along with the other diamond producing countries, Canada follows the Kimberley Process and has taken a strong leadership role in the diamond industry ensuring their diamonds are produced with strict adherence to ethical and environmental guidelines and fair labor practices.
Canadian diamonds purchased from Blue Nile will be accompanied by a Canadian diamond certificate that states the cut of the diamond, the rough weight, and the polished weight, as well as the Canadian diamond certification number. ''
looks to be the same as everywhere else....
Hi 57. That explanation helps. Be aware that, according to the CDCC, the definition of a "Canadian Diamond" is >Date: 11/19/2009 11:23:26 AM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
Greetings all,
My definition of a Canadian Diamond is one that is mined, Cut and polished in Canada.
Typically Canadian Diamond means it was mined from Canada, no more, no less. I prefer Canadian rough for my sensitive customers, but they are not cut and polished in Canada. The expertise on cutting is not what I would consider sufficient for high grade AGS000, tolkowsky ideal, or greater cuts in general. I prefer cutters with generations of artistic experience in diamond cutting, and that''s just not available yet up there.Date: 11/19/2009 2:11:58 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
Kenny,
You raised two questions that you deserve a response to, ''Fiftysevenfacets, is it a bad thing if a Canadian-mined was cut/polished elsewhere?''
Answer: No.
Does Bluenile actually state that their Canadian diamonds were cut/polished there, or was that an assumption on your part?
Answer: No, they make no claim if they are mined and polished in Canada or elsewhere for that matter.
I believe the purest definition of a Canadian diamond is the one certified by the government. This is to say nothing of who should be cutting or polishing the rough that is for another thread. If someone is looking for this purest definition then I suggest you do your homework before purchasing a diamond that is so-called ''Canadian''.
Perhaps that’s a definition of Canadian goods but it’s not the only or even the most common one. For that matter, it’s not even the US legal definition of ‘made in Canada’. That has to do with where it’s cut, not where the rough was mined so a stone mined elsewhere but cut by an artist in Yellowknife could be described as ‘made in Canada’.Date: 11/19/2009 2:11:58 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
Kenny,
You raised two questions that you deserve a response to, ''Fiftysevenfacets, is it a bad thing if a Canadian-mined was cut/polished elsewhere?''
Answer: No.
Does Bluenile actually state that their Canadian diamonds were cut/polished there, or was that an assumption on your part?
Answer: No, they make no claim if they are mined and polished in Canada or elsewhere for that matter.
I believe the purest definition of a Canadian diamond is the one certified by the government. This is to say nothing of who should be cutting or polishing the rough that is for another thread. If someone is looking for this purest definition then I suggest you do your homework before purchasing a diamond that is so-called ''Canadian''.
Neil,Date: 11/19/2009 2:40:24 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Perhaps that’s a definition of Canadian goods but it’s not the only or even the most common one. For that matter, it’s not even the US legal definition of ‘made in Canada’. That has to do with where it’s cut, not where the rough was mined so a stone mined elsewhere but cut by an artist in Yellowknife could be described as ‘made in Canada’.Date: 11/19/2009 2:11:58 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
Kenny,
You raised two questions that you deserve a response to, ''Fiftysevenfacets, is it a bad thing if a Canadian-mined was cut/polished elsewhere?''
Answer: No.
Does Bluenile actually state that their Canadian diamonds were cut/polished there, or was that an assumption on your part?
Answer: No, they make no claim if they are mined and polished in Canada or elsewhere for that matter.
I believe the purest definition of a Canadian diamond is the one certified by the government. This is to say nothing of who should be cutting or polishing the rough that is for another thread. If someone is looking for this purest definition then I suggest you do your homework before purchasing a diamond that is so-called ''Canadian''.
By all means those who wish to support both the Canadian cutting and mining industries are welcome and even encouraged to do so and the sellers can trumpet this as an added benefit but I see nothing wrong with stones that are mined in Canada but cut elsewhere being promoted as what they are, regardless of who the retailer is.
Definitions are routinely a problem with this sort of thing but in this case I think the dealers are mostly pretty clear. ''Canadian diamond'' means mined in Canada, ''made in Canada'' means cut in Canada. GNWT certifies stones that meet both and that are submitted to them for documentation. It all strikes me as pretty clear in a world where my Honda was assembled in Canada out of US and Japanese parts but the sticker on the door says only ''made in Canada''.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
I must say its quite alarming when an "Appraiser"...and not just any appraiser, but a Professional Appraiser in Denver is having difficulty defining a diamond.Date: 11/19/2009 3:14:30 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Perhaps the first definition required is what is a diamond? I’m inclined to include both rough and cut stones in this category. Given that, a ‘Canadian diamond’ would be a stone produced from a mine in Canada. I would not think that cutting, setting, or selling it elsewhere dilutes this fundamental attribute of Canadianness although ‘proof’ of origin is another sticky area. This is not a gemological property after all. It may still be Canadian even if no one can prove or even knows it, but for a merchant to be promoting this is an attribute requires a credible paper trail. That’s where the government paperwork does well but we’re back to the definitional problem. What constitutes sufficient evidence to be a credible provenance? For some a simple claim by the jeweler is sufficient and others want a signed and notarized statement by the miner.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Easy there. I thought Neil's post was a good outline of why this topic isn't black and white.Date: 11/19/2009 4:02:29 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
I must say its quite alarming when an 'Appraiser'...and not just any appraiser, but a Professional Appraiser in Denver is having difficulty defining a diamond.Date: 11/19/2009 3:14:30 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Perhaps the first definition required is what is a diamond? I’m inclined to include both rough and cut stones in this category. Given that, a ‘Canadian diamond’ would be a stone produced from a mine in Canada. I would not think that cutting, setting, or selling it elsewhere dilutes this fundamental attribute of Canadianness although ‘proof’ of origin is another sticky area. This is not a gemological property after all. It may still be Canadian even if no one can prove or even knows it, but for a merchant to be promoting this is an attribute requires a credible paper trail. That’s where the government paperwork does well but we’re back to the definitional problem. What constitutes sufficient evidence to be a credible provenance? For some a simple claim by the jeweler is sufficient and others want a signed and notarized statement by the miner.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver![]()
Nonetheless, I began this thread with 'My' definition of a 'Canadian' diamond....and I'm asking what definition would be more pure than the one that was proposed.
Date: 11/19/2009 4:02:29 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
Date: 11/19/2009 3:14:30 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Perhaps the first definition required is what is a diamond? I’m inclined to include both rough and cut stones in this category. Given that, a ‘Canadian diamond’ would be a stone produced from a mine in Canada. I would not think that cutting, setting, or selling it elsewhere dilutes this fundamental attribute of Canadianness although ‘proof’ of origin is another sticky area. This is not a gemological property after all. It may still be Canadian even if no one can prove or even knows it, but for a merchant to be promoting this is an attribute requires a credible paper trail. That’s where the government paperwork does well but we’re back to the definitional problem. What constitutes sufficient evidence to be a credible provenance? For some a simple claim by the jeweler is sufficient and others want a signed and notarized statement by the miner.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
I must say its quite alarming when an ''Appraiser''...and not just any appraiser, but a Professional Appraiser in Denver is having difficulty defining a diamond.![]()
Nonetheless, I began this thread with ''My'' definition of a ''Canadian'' diamond....and I''m asking what definition would be more pure than the one that was proposed.
Joshua probably saw that I posted that link before too...Date: 11/19/2009 4:27:42 PM
Author: serenitydiamonds
As stated earlier, this link is the best and the official definition of Canadian Diamond:
http://www.canadiandiamondcodeofconduct.ca/EN_consumer_information.htm
As for paper trail, that's all up to the customer and what documentation they require.
--Joshua
Certainly for diamonds.Date: 11/19/2009 4:35:25 PM
Author: Gleam
Isn''t it all a little fuzzy, for any given item? Like watches being ''made in Switzerland'' when only 50% of the watch (or some such similar percentage) has to be made and/or assembled in Switzerland?
And how certain $500 designer shoes say ''made in Italy'' when in fact, all the parts of the shoes were made in Vietnam or China, then were sent to Italy to have the sole put on?
Dude, awesome, lol. And technically correctDate: 11/19/2009 5:11:14 PM
Author: John Pollard
Date: 11/19/2009 4:35:25 PM
Author: Gleam
Isn''t it all a little fuzzy, for any given item? Like watches being ''made in Switzerland'' when only 50% of the watch (or some such similar percentage) has to be made and/or assembled in Switzerland?
And how certain $500 designer shoes say ''made in Italy'' when in fact, all the parts of the shoes were made in Vietnam or China, then were sent to Italy to have the sole put on?
Certainly for diamonds.
''Made in Pangaea?''![]()
Date: 11/19/2009 5:11:14 PM
Author: John Pollard
Date: 11/19/2009 4:35:25 PM
Author: Gleam
Isn''t it all a little fuzzy, for any given item? Like watches being ''made in Switzerland'' when only 50% of the watch (or some such similar percentage) has to be made and/or assembled in Switzerland?
And how certain $500 designer shoes say ''made in Italy'' when in fact, all the parts of the shoes were made in Vietnam or China, then were sent to Italy to have the sole put on?
Certainly for diamonds.
''Made in Pangaea?''![]()
Date: 11/19/2009 4:02:29 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
I must say its quite alarming when an ''Appraiser''...and not just any appraiser, but a Professional Appraiser in Denver is having difficulty defining a diamond.![]()
Nonetheless, I began this thread with ''My'' definition of a ''Canadian'' diamond....and I''m asking what definition would be more pure than the one that was proposed.
Am curious, can you provide the survey you took that included " nearly everyone else"?Date: 11/19/2009 7:10:24 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Date: 11/19/2009 4:02:29 PM
Author: fiftysevenfacets
I must say its quite alarming when an ''Appraiser''...and not just any appraiser, but a Professional Appraiser in Denver is having difficulty defining a diamond.![]()
Nonetheless, I began this thread with ''My'' definition of a ''Canadian'' diamond....and I''m asking what definition would be more pure than the one that was proposed.
Indeed. Your definition seems to be different from mine in that mine includes uncut stones while yours apparently does not. Use whatever standard you wish in your shopping but your definition differs from what is being used by nearly everyone else, including the government of Canada. They consider all diamonds produced from any mine located anywhere in Canada to be Canadian diamonds (and tax them accordingly). That seems like a fairly pure definition.
Then again, maybe it’s just the thin air here.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Hi Lorelei,Date: 11/19/2009 3:41:59 PM
Author: Lorelei
57,
How is your diamond search coming along or have you bought one already?![]()