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Best cut & value?

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karrotwin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
14
Thanks to all who helped me in my first thread with ideas on setting. I wanted to start a separate thread to get feedback on diamond selection.

My current criteria are:

Looking for the best value for the sparkle/cut, prefer to stay under $1500
Size: 0.5 to 0.7cts
Color: L or better
Clarity: anything that looks eye-clean and doesn't interfere with sparkle is fine, probably VS2 or SI1?

A few options that I found myself are:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.586-j-si1-round-diamond-ags-c-104063435026#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/4/

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.700-l-vs1-round-diamond-gia-44051228

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.507-j-vs2-round-diamond-ags-c-104062893113

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2892588.htm

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.55-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73814

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.53-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-209932

The 2nd one of those (the 0.7ct) seems to rate relatively poorly on the HCA cut tool, though being a newbie I can't quite figure out why. The last one rates quite well and seems a bit cheaper than the others; again, not clear on what makes it cheaper (maybe JA is just a cheaper vendor?). Would appreciate opinions on whether I am on the right track with these options and, if so, how you would narrow down the list.
 
2nd stone has high crown and deep depths. This is part of the reasons hca penalizes it.

The last stone has a brown overtone. Compared to the 2nd last stone which is yellow, "brownish" diamonds sell for less because the of economics and demand.
 
I see your point about the brown in the last one, I did not notice that when I first looked.

What about the differences between the 3rd and the 5th? They seem essentially identical on almost every criteria, the HCA tool actually says that the 5th one is a slightly better cut if I am interpreting correctly. Why is the 5th one cheaper despite being 0.55ct versus the 3rd one being 0.5ct?
 
I'd go for this one if you can swing it: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2892588.htm

Better color and a top cut quality stone.

I will add, though, after looking at your other thread, that most of us would not spend more on the setting than the diamond. I also would not attempt to pick out a highly stylized setting for someone else. Personal taste can be very, very different and she is the one who'll be wearing the ring everyday! If you look around this forum, you'll see that most of the women have chosen rings with thinner bands and some with and some without tiny diamonds on the shank. Halo rings are also popular.

Something like this that is a beautiful style and will stand the test of time is this:

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-sleek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-422.htm

And if you think she'd like an antique style setting, I agree with previous comments about Beverley K and Gabriel and Co. being a good choice. I'd spend no more than $2000 on the setting and allow yourself $3000 on the stone.
 
I appreciate the feedback regarding the stone vs. the setting and your point about tastes in custom work is well taken. I am struggling a bit with the fact that I know that she is not comfortable with a ring that is too flashy/expensive, which is part of the reason why I am exclusively looking at smaller stones. I'm not comfortable, however, with just buying a cheap ring. Buying a much nicer cut while keeping the size small and looking at nicer settings are two ways I am thinking about compromising, to give her a nicer ring than she would want without it obviously having a huge rock in the middle (which I know would make her uncomfortable to wear it). I agree that the band you linked is much more of a timeless look than the antique-y designs and lower risk of her just not liking it at all.

Can you explain the rationale on that stone you linked from Whiteflash versus the 5th stone from my original list
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.55-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73814

It seems like the WF one is 1 color higher but 1 clarity lower with nearly identical size. The WF is listed as an ideal cut but the HCA calculator on this site actually seems to like the JA stone better. (Assuming that "smaller is better" is the correct way to interpret the total visual performance result from the calculator).
 
I'm not the one who posted that, but the WF is one of their ACA diamonds, so it's definitely top cut grade. It comes with a better trade-in / upgrade policy, I believe. But mostly the color is better than the JA stone. J has a definite tint. SI clarity is still eye-clean, at least for that WF stone, it appears. (I can't get my browser to work right to let me zoom in.)

https://www.pricescope.com/files/images/DiamondColorGtoJ.jpg
^ color comparison
 
Is there a reason that I would avoid J? I have not looked at many diamonds so I'm the very definition of an "untrained eye" but an I color (even an H for that matter) and a J look completely the same to me unless I'm looking at them from the bottom. This seems like an area where I could save money to improve my cut, but I wouldn't want it to be annoying if other people find it really easy to tell the difference or the color starts to dampen the sparkle effect that I'd otherwise be getting out of a top grade cut.

Is the general consensus here that if you're looking for value then an eye clean SI1 is the way to go? If I understand correctly, any ACA or Gavin Signature needs to be completely eye clean to qualify.
 
J color is fine, but in this size range the difference between a J and an I is only a couple hundred dollars, so normally I would say get the I. But in this case the BGD J is bigger.
 
karrotwin|1367355389|3437669 said:
Is there a reason that I would avoid J? I have not looked at many diamonds so I'm the very definition of an "untrained eye" but an I color (even an H for that matter) and a J look completely the same to me unless I'm looking at them from the bottom. This seems like an area where I could save money to improve my cut, but I wouldn't want it to be annoying if other people find it really easy to tell the difference or the color starts to dampen the sparkle effect that I'd otherwise be getting out of a top grade cut.

Is the general consensus here that if you're looking for value then an eye clean SI1 is the way to go? If I understand correctly, any ACA or Gavin Signature needs to be completely eye clean to qualify.
Click to expand...

I Just bought my FI a J colored princess and it looks just as good as a higher colored stone to ME and I know how to tell the difference since I've joined this great forum. Before I had it set I could just barely see the difference but I was looking for it. Once set unless you or your lady are color sensitive I doubt you would be able to tell. You already stated that you could not but can your lady see the difference??? And if so, does it bother her? Cut rules so whatever you choose DON'T compromise there. Of course all the knowledgeable ppl here can tell the difference but Again I doubt the casual person would be able to tell. That last diamond has a real noticeable tint so stay away from that one but all J's are not like that. Hope that helps and I'm by far these least experienced PSer so take my advice for what it is ok. And yes the BGD is bigger so I would go with that one.
 
If she has specifically mentioned that she doesn't want something 'flashy' than I would consider setting the diamond into a solitaire and then shopping together for her 'forever' setting after the proposal. 'Not too flashy' means different things to different people. Too me it means something simple and classic, to others it may mean smaller center stone and to others, something all together different again. She will be wearing this ring for a very very long time...why not choose the setting together. There is something very special and romantic about that. Just a thought. :))

Edit: I also just wanted to mention that I don't think a solitaire in anyway says 'cheap'. Look how amazingly popular 'and expensive' the classic Tiffany setting is. ;))
 
Well, I think I committed the rookie mistake of being indecisive on something that met all my criteria. Out of the ones above I was leaning towards:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.586-j-si1-round-diamond-ags-c-104063435026

Was a nice hearts & arrows stone, the inclusions on the AGS report didn't look too bad, and I liked saving a bit of money by dropping down to J. Unfortunately, seems like someone else had the same idea and reserved it. All the other BGD-signature are either smaller or much more expensive. Now I'm back at the drawing board evaluating a couple options:

This is very similar from the ACA line, only one inclusion listed and an I color (not important to me, I can't see I vs J) but a slightly smaller stone and $150 more expensive...I'd probably like this one more if I wasn't feeling like it was a worse value compared to the one I missed:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2892588.htm

This looks decent but I am concerned that there are too many different inclusions:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2890090.htm

This one rates well in the HCA and AGA cut tools, thinking about asking for an idealscope:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.55-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73814

This one seems like an even better value for what I'm looking for but the table somehow looks "murky" or "unpolished" and I have no idea why. Is this what a feather finish means? Did they just not wipe down the stone?
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.56-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-178003

Any feedback on the stones above (or alternatives that I should be considering) is appreciated. Thank you everyone for your help!!
 
Noticed one unanswered question. For the HCA, anything below 2 is what you are aiming for so smaller is not necessarily better. I try to aim in the area between the white line and the dotted green line.
 
I like the BGD one you posted the best - meets all your criteria and a top performer - which will make the stone sparkle like mad, I don't think the J will be too yellow in that size. It measures almost the same as the whiteflash 0.6 carat one which has a bit of leakage under the table.
 
istase2000|1367807408|3441047 said:
I like the BGD one you posted the best - meets all your criteria and a top performer - which will make the stone sparkle like mad, I don't think the J will be too yellow in that size. It measures almost the same as the whiteflash 0.6 carat one which has a bit of leakage under the table.
Click to expand...

My thoughts were exactly that, but now someone else has reserved it. I'm trying to figure out if any of the other stones linked are worth buying or if I just need to sit and wait for new ones to come in. Not inclined to do the latter, but kicking myself for not moving once I found what I wanted.
 
That's a shame... but there's still a chance that person might not buy it..

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2890090.htm is still great (AGS0) maybe you could ask a gemologist at whiteflash to compare it to the hearts and arrow http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2892588.htm and ask if the naked eye can see any difference between their performance? I think idealscopes pick up much more than our naked eye would.

And ask them to check if eye clean from 6 inches (or whatever distance you like)
 
 
istase2000|1367818069|3441101 said:
This also looks nice
http://www.zoara.com/diamonds/p_round_excellent_cut_k_vs2#p=1594413
Click to expand...

Anyone have comments on this vendor? I haven't heard of Zoara before but their stones seem a bit too cheap relative to all the other hearts and arrows stones I see at other places. Sounds like they are using the definition too loosely? Do they do idealscopes? That stone rates 1.7 on HCA and 1B on AGA/NAJA so pretty reasonable but I'm skeptical of the H&A claim.
 
For posterity's sake in case anyone is curious, I contacted Zoara and they told me most of the search results are virtual stones and their vendors do not do idealscopes.

I'm currently having JA bring in 3 stones for idealscopes to compare to the ones shown on WF. Will keep looking for options in the meantime.

Frontrunner is ($1310):
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.55-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73814

The one istase2000 posted is tempting due to a bargain price ($1170 for a 0.55ct VS J GIA-X with 1A AGA and 1.6-X-X-X-VG HCA); it seems like the reason for the low price is that it has a brown-ish color instead of a yellow-ish. Would particularly welcome any feedback on whether this is a good way to save or whether this is a bad choice.
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.55-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-211435
 
Seems like there are a lot of inclusions on this but it appears they are all on the bottom/side of the diamond:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.507-j-si1-round-diamond-ags-c-104062893142

Am I thinking correctly that this could be put into a bezel setting to "hide" the inclusions from even a close viewing distance? Not sure if that's how it works or if they still will peek through the top. I've never examined a stone with this location of inclusions under magnification.
 
All I know is DS selection of WF would be my choice even if it is a slight stretch. She has quite an eye for stones and that one is gorgous. Plus if I had a choice I would stay above J color on my engagement ring. No disrespect to sha4000 but if you have a choice and its within budget I wouldn't go lower than I.....But I think you can't go wrong with a beautifully cut stone in a simple setting that says classy not flashy
 
I ended up going with a BGD-signature (AGS0) 0.667 J VS1 Hearts and Arrows Round. I went up a bit in budget and ended up spending $2125 for it. It wasn't one of the ones linked earlier, but all of the great discussion really helped inform my decision.

I don't know what others think, but I suspect I overpaid a bit as I would have been just as happy with a VS2 or SI1 but the purchase was never a financial burden to begin with (I'm just very value conscious) and I was comfortable with BGD's commitment to producing super-ideal cuts and their prompt customer service - I actually ended up comparing the stone with them over Skype; that and the many great pictures on pricescope of J color stones helped me overcome the fear of not buying an H or better. I didn't see any other BGD-singature or WhiteFlash ACA that better fit my criteria that were not even more expensive.

JamesAllen had several stones that were very close seconds and as a newbie I found their 360degree tool by far the most useful thing that any vendor website had. They also did a couple idealscopes for me and I was very close to buying one there but in the end decided to spend a few bucks more to be sure I was getting something that had the super-ideal cut.

That Zoara stone was very tempting but when I did the live chat they told me that they couldn't do idealscopes. Maybe different reps give different answers? I didn't want to spend time fleshing that out, but maybe someone else can grab it up as it seems like a sweet deal.

Now time to spend more time agonizing over settings. Thanks to everyone who helped me reach a conclusion on the stone!
 
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