Best camera to catch color

[pregcurious]

Are there any professional photographers out there who can recommend a camera for capturing accurate pictures of stones? I am trying to a take a picture of a red stone ([URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/red-spinel.167915/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/red-spinel.167915/[/URL]) and am failing miserably. The vendor's pictures are so much more accurate than mine!

Is it possible to get a digital point and shoot that can take good pictures of colored stones on macro? Do I have to get an SLR? Are there any models especially well known for capturing accurate color?

Any recommendations are welcome.

 

[Barrett]

If "digitaldevo" comes along he can steer you in the right direction.

 

[Pandora II]

I borrow a number of cameras off my husband who is semi-professional.

The best is his Canon 5D Mk II, but it's expensive and the macro lense costs $$$ as well. Also have a Canon Rebel which isn't nearly as good.

Finally my point and shoot is a Canon Powershot G10 which is a great little camera for everything. Obviously it doesn't have the capabilities of a top of the range DSLR, but it's pretty good and an all round nice camera to have for everyday use as well.

As much as anything, having the right lighting and set-up plus a tripod is important. I also use Photoshop to adjust the white balance and exposure.

 

[LD]

I've had Nikons, Canons and Olympus cameras of all different varieties! All of them have their weaknesses. Some like green, some don't! It's very challenging to know what your camera likes/doesn't like until you try to replicate. I've also used all my cameras with a light box and proper lighting but honestly it's a faff and I can't get that as right as when I just use natural or incandescent lighting!!! (The operators fault not the equipment - clearly!).

I never use Photoshop (because I haven't got it ) but do play around with the balance and exposure when taking photos until I get one that replicates what I see. What I've found is that one setting may be good for one gemstone but is poor for another and there are so many variables such as time of day etc.

If you invest in serious pieces of kit and a very very good camera it's probably easier to achieve great photos but then you have to be a technical genius to set everything up in the first place!

BTW - even when you've got a perfect camera and set up, photographing Emeralds and colour change gemstones still isn't easy!

 

[Rockdiamond]

I borrow a number of cameras off my husband who is semi-professional.

The best is his Canon 5D Mk II, but it's expensive and the macro lense costs $$$ as well. Also have a Canon Rebel which isn't nearly as good.

Finally my point and shoot is a Canon Powershot G10 which is a great little camera for everything. Obviously it doesn't have the capabilities of a top of the range DSLR, but it's pretty good and an all round nice camera to have for everyday use as well.

As much as anything, having the right lighting and set-up plus a tripod is important. I also use Photoshop to adjust the white balance and exposure.

Hi Pandora,
If I could ask- what were the differences between the MKII and the Rebel?

 

[kenny]

Besides the camera, properly matching the camera's white balance setting to the lighting used, the environment dramatically affects the color you see in a gem.

The best way to address the environment so your green shirt and yellow walls are not captured and reflected by your gem is with a light tent or dome.
You can buy one or make your own.

 

[T L]

Besides the camera, properly matching the camera's white balance setting to the lighting used and environment dramatically affects the color you see in a gem.

The best way to address the environment so your green shirt and yellow walls are not captured by and reflected by your gem is with a light tent or dome.

Can you use it for your gems if they want to go camping with you?

Sorry, couldn't resist when I saw that thing.

 

[kenny]

 

[gsellis]

The first thing to do is to set a price of how much you are willing to spend. The Sigma's with a Sigma 150mm Macro lens is the package that might be the best setup. I will let Digitaldevo comment when he gets here. That is my dream setup. But for the top of the line, I can also get an updated kitchen.

 

[digitaldevo]

Hello all. Thanks for the confidence but not much I can truly add to the topic, but I will give some info.

First off, George is correct, the absolute best setup for gemstones and jewelry would be the Sigma SD9/10/14/15 dSLR camera body + Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM(OS or non-OS) 1:1 Macro lens, but it is not remotely cheap, not even the SD9 bodies, lol. Nor is this setup the easiest either, just the opposite actually, sadly. No bells and whistles for a beginner, no auto modes, no extras, just slimmed down and just the necessities for the most part, but that wonderful FoveonX3 sensor. The main issues arise that you need experience in photography to really get results from the Sigma cameras, lenses are great period. But if you don't mind learning Av(aperture priority) mode or full M (manual) mode and learn the quirks(like the SD14 needing to adjust EV to +.7) of the Sigma cameras, they can not be beat for color accuracy, hence why the $20K-$25K laboratory cameras and such use the FoveonX3 sensor technology. Canon and Nikon have recently filed patents for similar sensors now as well, so expect them in the near future! But the sensor technology is still NOT perfect in the red channel, accurate, but can still blow out the color data, but much more difficult.

The next best choice would be the Nikon D700 full frame sensor dSLR or the Canon 5D or Canon 5D MkII. Combine any of those three with the Sigma 150mm macro lens. BUT, you will need to adjust some in camera setting for best results because they are Bayer based still and WILL still have issues with the red channel color data! Best to change in camera setting for contrast to 0, set color mode/curve settings to natural, keep saturation at about -.5to-1.0, normally should have at 0-+1.0. These settings will also help ANY Bayer based digital camera in the red channel. Also shoot in RAW mode and convert over to JPEG.

Also your style of lighting can be harmful or helpful as well. Canon cameras, under the Series 1 or 5D series bodies, tend to have some issues with certain colors + certain artificial lights, for example. Nikon tends to expose warmer on flesh like tones. Solux bulbs are about the best safest choice IMHO. Color temp around 3500K is what I use. Ott-Lite 6500K HD Daylight CFLs would be next best choice really. If have a Canon AVOID Reveal lighting!

The reason Bayer based sensors have issues with colors is because they do NOT actually capture all colors. EVERY digital camera, except the one Sony F828 which captured 4 colors, captures their color data in RGB(red, green, blue) color channels, regardless of sensor type. Each photosite, think pixel for simplicity, needs R, G, & B color data to recreate the scene. Here in lies the problem. Bayer sensors only capture R, G, or B color channel per pixel instead of all three! In order to get the other two color channels they use the surrounding pixels which captured the other color channels and use embedded software algorithms in the firmware to interpolate the data from the missing color channels. Interpolation is only as good as the algorithms used and is essentially a "best guess" and creates data from non-existing data, this is why some cameras do better then others and why some have issues with one color when others do not, even within the same brand of cameras. his is an example of how a Bayer based sensor looks:

A FoveonX3 sensor is setup like color film is. Color film uses multiple emulsion layers to capture the different colors in an image. FoveonX3 sensors do the same thing. Instead of using a single layer of photosites/pixels like Bayer based sensors, they use three layers of photosites, each layer containing pixels to capture each of the RGB color channels, in this way there is no need to interpolate or guess/make up any data as it is all there. Here is what a FoveonX3 sensor looks like:

There are some other reasons Sigma cameras are the best choice, like the fact they need to AA(anti-aliasing filter). An AA filter is used by all Bayer based sensor cameras, except for the Leica M series which uses a proprietary built in software algorithm.. darn good one too. Due to how Bayer sensors work the finer details get blurred because this is what an AA filter does to rid itself of the Moire patterns caused by Bayer sensors. It essentially just creates a slight blur over the sensor in the camera. FoveonX3 sensors do not suffer from Moire patterns so they need NO AA filters, so the finer details captured stay nice and unblurred. This gives the FoveonX3 sensor images a pixel level sharpness which Bayer sensors can not capture due to the hardware limitations.

FoveonX3 sensors also capture far more data then the Bayer sensor as well as a larger dynamic range. Dynamic range, to keep it simple, is the amount of details captured in the shadows and highlights.

Now, to add to the probable confusion, believe it or not, for close-ups and macros, a P&S(point and shoot), aka fixed lens camera, is actually the best choice. Why, you ask? Because by design the P&S camera captures a much greater DOF(depth of field) then a dSLR body does at the same given f-stop. DOF is, to keep it simple, is the focal plane of the image, in other words, it dictates the field in the image that is in sharp focus. With close-ups and macros this is essential because a subject may be too deep to get everything in sharp focus in a single capture resulting in the need for stacking multiple images or different focal points together into one giant focal range image. Where a P&S may easily capture the entire frame in focus without this need. But, the only FoveonX3 based P&S cameras are the Sigma DP series and the older Polaroid x530(but has color accuracy issues due to Polaroid's junk software and hardware in the camera, lol, and poor white balance systems, so should be avoided by all but the most experienced photographers). These would need to be combined with a Raynox macro add-on lens for optimal results.

All images can be color fixed in an editing program like Photoshop, GIMP, Paint.Net, etc. It is not difficult once you learn how to do it.

What camera to get really depends on what budget you have to spend and based on your experience in photography and/or willingness to learn some photography.

If either experienced or willing to learn, the best choice is the Sigma dSLR body + Sigma 150mm lens. Next best would be the Nikon D700 or Canon 5D/5D MkII + Sigma 150mm lens.

If don't mind the occasional need to fix color here and there on certain shots, the Panasonic LX3/LX5 cameras + Raynox add-on macro lenses are very difficult to beat! They offer ease and speed of capture and use and in most cases are quite accurate under Solux and the Ott-Lite bulbs as long as setup a custom white balance. These are my preferred choice of setups honestly. They offer all auto settings for those inexperienced, but yet offer full manual settings including manual focusing for the experienced shooter of for the inexperienced to advance to as they grow and learn. They offer full RAW capabilities as well. Larger sensor then most other P&S type setups, which when combined with the stunning Leica designed lenses, capture amazing finer details and sharp contrasty images.

If go the dSLR route, one can shave off some costs by simply going with a Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG OS macro lens. On non-Sigma bodies, you can use the Sigma 105mm macro lens or Tokina 100mm f/2.8 macro lens. I would not go below 100/105mm macro lens unless you are very well experienced due to much more difficulties in lighting the subject. But if absolutely have to do so, the Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DG 1:1 macro lens offers an amazing bang for the buck value and is one of the sharpest lenses I've ever owned and used too!

For the absolute budget shooter, snag a used Canon A6## series camera and use the CHDK hacked firmware. Shoot in RAW mode. Setup a custom white balance. And you will do decently enough for most all shots except the certain colors under certain artificial lighting conditions. The hacked firmware helps with color reproduction but still can not overcome the Bayer based shortcomings in the red color channel especially. Combine this camera with a set of Raynox macro add-ons lenses and you have a setup for less then $100 that can capture everything down to an accent stone relatively easily once you get used to the setup.

But for the absolute in color accuracy the Sigma bodies just can not be beaten. This website will greatly help with the tips and tricks to setup the camera and use it properly.
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[pregcurious]

Wow. Just wow. I bow down before you digitaldevo. You are filled with imaging goodness.

I am going to start with the Panasonic LX5 with the lens. Would this count?
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-LX5-Digital-Stabilized-3-0-Inch/dp/B003WJR69O/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1321364285&sr=8-3

I used to use a fully manual Pentax camera with a some type of lens when I was a teenager, and have since lost any contact with photography. I hope to get a clue again.

Kenny, thanks for posting that tent. My kid has a giantic one with mesh walls that we use as a ball pit type thing.

Part of enjoying any hobby for me is sharing it with others, and you guys are it. Thank you so much for all of your helpful and funny comments. I promise to post pictures of my red spinel if I can get this to work.

 

[T L]

Hi Jamey,
Nice to see you on PS. Hope you stick around.

 

[PrecisionGem]

More important than the camera is the lighting, and the ability to move the camera away from the stone. A very close focusing camera has the drawback of making it very difficult to light the stone with out the camera producing a big shadow.

I use a white cardboard with a hole cut in it the size of the lens, then shine my lights directly at the cardboard so that the light is bounced off the board. A tripod is pretty much a necessity.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks, Gene!

 

[PrecisionGem]

that Panasonic LX5 looks like a very nice camera with very good reviews.

 

[digitaldevo]

LX5 is a great choice. Phenomenal camera. For extra Magnification check out the Raynox DCR-150 and DCR-250 add-on lenses. I wouldn't use any other lenses personally due to severe image degradation. The Raynox cause virtually no degradation at all because they are true coated optical lenses comprised of multiple elements in multiple groups. The Nikon screw on diopters +2 and greater are multi-element as well.

As Precision already mentioned, your lighting is also crucial.

I made tray/holder out of a piece of lexan and use a copystand for quick and easy shooting. Guarantees a close to perfect 90° to the table camera angle and allows simple diffused direct lighting or reflected lighting into the crown of the gemstone.