Ben Carson has tested positive for COVID-19

[kenny]

Yes Kenny...but that would be a normal person. I take my gloves off after I pump gas. I would never get in my car and touch my steering wheel or car door handle with the gloves..

I'm not normal either.
Thank Glob!

 

[telephone89]

There are plenty of threads that mention masks and other SARS-CoV-2 response measures that I've not commented on

Is the suggestion that no discussion is permitted from an alternative viewpoint to that held by a vocal (apparent) majority because to do so is 'derailing'?

I am concerned for the concept of free speech and scientific debate if that is the case.

You know there’s no free speech on a moderated forum
I’m not going to engage further as I don’t want to derail this thread further. I really wish you could just be respectful and keep conspiracy theories, fake news and anti-science out of these threads. Prob too much to ask but ‍

 

[MamaBee]

I'm not normal either.
Thank Glob!

Normal isn’t what it’s all cracked up to be!

 

[OoohShiny]

You know there’s no free speech on a moderated forum
I’m not going to engage further as I don’t want to derail this thread further. I really wish you could just be respectful and keep conspiracy theories, fake news and anti-science out of these threads. Prob too much to ask but ‍♀

Point noted re: moderated forums but as far as I can see, PS has always encouraged debate rather than risk being seen as an echo chamber - even allowing political debate up to the point that civility is threatened! In a global pandemic where the science is not 100% 'settled', debate about the situation and mitigation measures would not seem inappropriate.

I am unclear on which of my posts have not been respectful. I acknowledge that different parties can hold different viewpoints, and that each party can hold the view that the other views are incorrect. I remain concerned that alternative viewpoints are being labelled as 'fake news' and 'conspiracy theories', and that discussion around such viewpoints risks not being possible in a situation where those who might wish to do so become afraid of potential responses.

 

[Matata]

I remain concerned that alternative viewpoints are being labelled as 'fake news' and 'conspiracy theories', and that discussion around such viewpoints risks not being possible in a situation where those who might wish to do so become afraid of potential responses.

My opinion -- People who participate here without the maturity and self-confidence to handle disagreement with their opinions need to rethink their participation. What is there to fear? Hands will reach out through the computer screen and choke them? I think @Dancing Fire needs to give lessons to thin skinned members in how to survive this viperous snake pit.

 

[m-cubed]

In your own words, it is anecdata rather than a controlled experiment - correlation cannot be confirmed causation when there are (I imagine) other enhanced hygiene measures in place that are (likely) observed to a greater or lesser degree by the various individuals!

A suite of measures seems a sensible approach, but I don't believe any apparent benefits can be entirely attributed to mask wearing on that basis.

Your reply above notes this! but I would argue that your original post does not make it clear

Well, it wouldn‘t be particularly ethical to expose knowingly expose Red Cross workers to coronavirus both with and without masks, and it’s kind of specious to even bring that up. But that kind of research has been done with animal models and it clearly demonstrates the efficacy of masks. Here is a nice article written for the lay audience. https://www.understandinganimalrese...educe-covid-19-transmission-between-hamsters/

Again, I really don’t think trying to cast doubt on the value of masks is okay when we are literally fighting to reduce the death toll during a pandemic.

 

[AdaBeta27]

This is Japan's strategy, and it's the simple roadmap I keep in my head.

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000619576.pdf

I'm not too worried very much about what my hands touch, gloved or not. I wipe down car keys, steering wheel, door handles inside & out, and gearshift and instrument cluster and all buttons and switches in my vehicle, with Clorox disinfectant wipes. I don't think touching my face is something I'm very likely to do. I have a small face and the adult sized masks literally cover half of it, lol. And I'm usually wearing reading glasses or even bifocal safety goggles, which are wrap-around style and marvelous eye protection from droplets. Summer heat in my vehicle was enough to kill virus on masks and surfaces. I may need to rethink that for winter if this one is both cold and overcast, but I got through last winter using disinfectant wipes and Lysol spray and disposible masks. I don't expect this winter's virus to stronger than last year's, as far as vehicle interiors are concerned.

 

[MeowMeow]

@AdaBeta27 ima need you to tell me where you are getting wipes please lol. I haven't been able to get ANY cleaning wipes since March and I keep an eye out with different stores. >.<

 

[AdaBeta27]

@AdaBeta27 ima need you to tell me where you are getting wipes please lol. I haven't been able to get ANY cleaning wipes since March and I keep an eye out with different stores. >.<

Dollar General and Family Dollar, in Feb. 2020 before American woke up, I am sorry to say. But locally, I've heard that both Lowe's and Home Depot have had 3-packs from time to time and they always sell out fast. Wipes in those cylinder containers are the one thing that I have never actually seen come back after the shelves got emptied in March. I've heard it's because the same material used for them is also used for disposable masks. I always kept a small stockpile of the Dollar General and Family Dollar knockoffs of Lysol wipes, too, because I use them to kill mold on the saddles and other horse tack that I keep hopefully hanging onto.

 

[Matata]

ima need you to tell me where you are getting wipes please lol.

Amazon has quite a few at the moment. I'm finding a few in grocery stores. It's like gambling -- being at the store on the right day at the right time and scoring a jackpot if I find one or two.

 

[MeowMeow]

Amazon has quite a few at the moment. I'm finding a few in grocery stores. It's like gambling -- being at the store on the right day at the right time and scoring a jackpot if I find one or two.

I will have a look on amazon then. I miss being able to wipe things so much! Thank you!

Dollar General and Family Dollar, in Feb. 2020 before American woke up, I am sorry to say. But locally, I've heard that both Lowe's and Home Depot have had 3-packs from time to time and they always sell out fast. Wipes in those cylinder containers are the one thing that I have never actually seen come back after the shelves got emptied in March. I've heard it's because the same material used for them is also used for disposable masks. I always kept a small stockpile of the Dollar General and Family Dollar knockoffs of Lysol wipes, too, because I use them to kill mold on the saddles and other horse tack that I keep hopefully hanging onto.

Yeah i kept a smaller stockpile too before COVID and then everyone went crazy over the wipes. I've felt lucky to just get a single bleach spray every 3 months >.< I'll have to add those places to our checking list too. Thank you!

 

[OoohShiny]

My opinion -- People who participate here without the maturity and self-confidence to handle disagreement with their opinions need to rethink their participation. What is there to fear? Hands will reach out through the computer screen and choke them? I think @Dancing Fire needs to give lessons to thin skinned members in how to survive this viperous snake pit.

While you are clearly a self-confident person yourself many on here and in the real world are not and are conflict-averse.

I am one of those people.

Personally speaking, I am more than willing to have a discussion around a subject from various viewpoints - that is one way we can increase our understanding of subjects, after all - but I have seen it mentioned elsewhere on here (not specifically in relation to pandemic-related threads) that some individuals have felt like other members have 'piled on' when the individuals in question have posted a viewpoint contrary to that which appears to be the majority view.

 

[OoohShiny]

Well, it wouldn‘t be particularly ethical to expose knowingly expose Red Cross workers to coronavirus both with and without masks, and it’s kind of specious to even bring that up. But that kind of research has been done with animal models and it clearly demonstrates the efficacy of masks. Here is a nice article written for the lay audience. https://www.understandinganimalrese...educe-covid-19-transmission-between-hamsters/

Again, I really don’t think trying to cast doubt on the value of masks is okay when we are literally fighting to reduce the death toll during a pandemic.

Thanks for that article link - this is super-cute! lol



Is the article saying that the test subjects were subject to the fan moving the air constantly between the cages for 7 days?

That would not seem 'realistic' in terms of being replicated in the human world, where exposure times would seem likely to be much shorter outside of the family home (and probable even in the family home, given everyone seems to sit in different rooms staring at different screens... lol), but I appreciate that experiments often need to overtly create ideal conditions for what they are looking to prove or disprove.

Do we know if there has been any research on the incidence of fomite virus transmission that may occur from the repeated touching and handling of (used and/or dirty) masks? Most (all?) studies I've seen are either under carefully controlled laboratory conditions or using medically-trained staff out in the field who put on / wear / take off masks, and change masks regularly, in line with guidance - which is not the same as Mrs Miggins pulling out her handmade mask from the bottom of her bag and then wearing it and fiddling with it for 2 hours round the shops before throwing it back in her bag for her next trip while still damp!

If constant fiddling with and handling of masks might be increasing risk of transmission by routes other than air-based, that risk would need to be considered and balanced against any reduction that might be seen with mask wearing.

 

[Missy]

@AdaBeta27 ima need you to tell me where you are getting wipes please lol. I haven't been able to get ANY cleaning wipes since March and I keep an eye out with different stores. >.<

I haven't been able to get lysol spray or lysol wipes anywhere including Amazon. Costco has lysol wipes hit or miss but only had Lysol Spray once over the past 7 months.

Here is an alternative you might find useful. They have both wipes and spray available. The active ingredient is Hydrogen Peroxide in the spray and alcohol in the wipes. I need the spray for cleaning and not so much for Covid but I think it is effective against most bacteria/fungi/viruses.

HTH @MeowMeow and anyone else in need of disinfecting supplies.

Spray

Natural Household Antibacterial Disinfectant Spray 2-Pack | Honest

Kill germs and viruses throughout your home with natural antibacterial disinfectant spray. Shop our household disinfectant spray & keep your family safe. | Honest

www.honest.com

Wipes

Alcohol Wipes 300 Count | Honest

Keep it clean while on the go with alcohol wipes, made with 65% alcohol and a touch of aloe. Shop alcohol hand wipes. | Honest

www.honest.com

 

[Missy]

Personally speaking, I am more than willing to have a discussion around a subject from various viewpoints - that is one way we can increase our understanding of subjects, after all - but I have seen it mentioned elsewhere on here (not specifically in relation to pandemic-related threads) that some individuals have felt like other members have 'piled on' when the individuals in question have posted a viewpoint contrary to that which appears to be the majority view.

I agree that hearing other's points of view is helpful and one can learn from others especially when one doesn't agree with everything.

Of course there is a time when facts need to be faced and perhaps arguing just for the sake of arguing becomes a fruitless and exhausting exercise. Not saying you are doing that @OoohShiny but just saying when faced with info perhaps contrary to yours evaluating the new data could be useful. I see, occasionally, people arguing just for the sake of arguing. At least that is how it appears from my POV. Sometimes.

 

[OoohShiny]

And now I'm hungry... lol

 

[Missy]

And now I'm hungry... lol

Haha me too. Here are some sweet potatoes for you to enjoy. Yummmmmmmmm.





Or are these tomatoes?

 

[OoohShiny]

Haha me too. Here are some sweet potatoes for you to enjoy. Yummmmmmmmm.





Or are these tomatoes?

Whoever invented sweet potato chips (the correct term, not fries ) needs a medal!

Normal potatoes are so boring now! lol

 

[Missy]

Whoever invented sweet potato chips (the correct term, not fries ) needs a medal!

Normal potatoes are so boring now! lol

I'm easy. I love them baked in the oven or grilled on the BBQ with avocado oil. So good.
I always tell my DH I am easy. Feed me, love me and buy me bling. Easy peasy. Oh yes and cycle by the sea with me. And I am a happy camper.

 

[MeowMeow]

I haven't been able to get lysol spray or lysol wipes anywhere including Amazon. Costco has lysol wipes hit or miss but only had Lysol Spray once over the past 7 months.

Here is an alternative you might find useful. They have both wipes and spray available. The active ingredient is Hydrogen Peroxide in the spray and alcohol in the wipes. I need the spray for cleaning and not so much for Covid but I think it is effective against most bacteria/fungi/viruses.

HTH @MeowMeow and anyone else in need of disinfecting supplies.

Spray

Natural Household Antibacterial Disinfectant Spray 2-Pack | Honest

Kill germs and viruses throughout your home with natural antibacterial disinfectant spray. Shop our household disinfectant spray & keep your family safe. | Honest

www.honest.com

Wipes

Alcohol Wipes 300 Count | Honest

Keep it clean while on the go with alcohol wipes, made with 65% alcohol and a touch of aloe. Shop alcohol hand wipes. | Honest

www.honest.com

Ooh I didn't think of alchohol wipes. Thank you Missy! I'll see if I have some luck with those!

 

[m-cubed]

Thanks for that article link - this is super-cute! lol



Is the article saying that the test subjects were subject to the fan moving the air constantly between the cages for 7 days?

That would not seem 'realistic' in terms of being replicated in the human world, where exposure times would seem likely to be much shorter outside of the family home (and probable even in the family home, given everyone seems to sit in different rooms staring at different screens... lol), but I appreciate that experiments often need to overtly create ideal conditions for what they are looking to prove or disprove.

Do we know if there has been any research on the incidence of fomite virus transmission that may occur from the repeated touching and handling of (used and/or dirty) masks? Most (all?) studies I've seen are either under carefully controlled laboratory conditions or using medically-trained staff out in the field who put on / wear / take off masks, and change masks regularly, in line with guidance - which is not the same as Mrs Miggins pulling out her handmade mask from the bottom of her bag and then wearing it and fiddling with it for 2 hours round the shops before throwing it back in her bag for her next trip while still damp!

If constant fiddling with and handling of masks might be increasing risk of transmission by routes other than air-based, that risk would need to be considered and balanced against any reduction that might be seen with mask wearing.

You are welcome to read the details of the paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7314229/pdf/ciaa644.pdf The goal was a controlled experiment to test efficacy of surgical mask material to prevent / reduce transmission via respiratory exchange, not necessarily to model a real-world exposure. As you know, the public health guidance is to maintain distance, limit contact with others and to wear a mask when not possible to do both to decrease risk. I am not in the mood to go search the literature for studies on finite transmission, but what I am seeing at a high level is that public health experts think fomite transmission, while a risk, is probably not a high percentage of transmission. So the public health guidance also states to not fuss with your mask, wash it frequently, etc. I don’t expect that the spike we are seeing in the US right now is fomite transmission because people are handling masks incorrectly, but rather people not following guidance, gathering together indoors with people from outside their immediate household for extended periods and not wearing masks at all.