Begging Kitties

[Elmorton]

Ever since we''ve moved into our new house (bigger, multi-levels), our kitties have become MAJOR WHINERS before and in between meal times. And, even worse, they''ve become scavengers!

We feed them each 1/4 cup twice a day (the bag recs 1/2 cup a day - they''re both chubby kitties, so I think this is an OK amt - correct me if I''m wrong though). They eat at 7am and 7pm. Both of them wolf down their food very quickly. Every now and then (about once a month or two) Morty will eat too quickly and puke up his food, but we''ve been told this is pretty normal). They have been eating the same brand of food (Purina) for almost a year and both drink plenty of water.

But, every time we walk past their bowls, they go thundering to where their bowls are and whine.

In the morning, Elmo wakes up super early and paws at us until we wake up - before we moved, he hadn''t done this since he was a baby (he''s about a year and a half now). Both Morty and Elmo will whine loudly starting at about 5 until they get fed.

AND they''ve been getting into things. We used to be able to leave food (human) out and walk away, but now, if we turn our backs for even a second, Elmo (and sometimes Morty) will be in our bowl or plate. We spray water at them and yell loudly, but no lesson has been learned. Elmo will climb into the sink to lick bowls that are full of water and icky wet food scraps. The other day, he even licked a bowl clean that had hot sauce in it. Honestly, it''s gross.

What has gotten into our cats? Do we underfeed them? Could they be suffering from some kind of deficiency? Are they just behaving badly? Anybody have a guess at why their behavior has changed so drastically???

 

[door knob solitaire]

I don't have a cat...but I do have two dogs. When we rescued them we thought we would sponsor them long enough to find a home and we feed them the ever popular Purina type food. They had a ton of waste. It wasn't right. And they were always hungry.

Got Iams at a boutique type store ...things improved...then found it cheaper at Sams. The results were it not favorable. Found a dog food guru who explained to me what fillers were. The highly respected Iams had just changed their ingredients to price point Sams Club and Walmart consumers. How did they do it? But making the meat that once was real meat...to now meat by products. It had fillers that were comparable to the cheap brands you find in Walmart etc. Those feeds are just corn...by products...and discarded material.

Ok, so we went on to a premium brand that was whole food and everything got incredible. No gulping the food. No excess messy waste...just firm small quantities. Hmmm...what was the difference? They were actually digesting what they were eating. It wasn't blowing right past them. That is what fillers do. Leave you hungry and not satisfied.

I don't know what you can take from this...it is my experience with my dogs...and you need help with your cats. But I feel the quality of the food choice is probably the culprit. I know that brand is well known, and popular. But I wouldn't feed it to a stray. I know that sounds a tad rough. Sorry. But I now after loosing a pet and having regrets, I will never go down that road again. I will feed them only the best healthy diet and try to squeeze every minute of life I can share with them. A great quality diet is one thing I have control over.

Ok something else you can do is get the bowls that have raised bumpers in the bottom. They can't wolf the food down fast it takes them twice as long to chase the food and get to it. That may help slow the rush down.

Sorry I stuck my wet nose into your litter box...but I have been where you are and your anguish to find out what is right. §

Oh I feel the difference is their exercise and activity level has changed. They are roaming far more square footage and burning more calories. Aren't you? Congrats on the new digs.

 

[Heidi137]

I don''t own any cats but I free-feed my three dogs and none are overweight. If it were me, I''d have to up their food so that they could have all they wanted at least once a day. One half cup of food per day doesn''t sound like it''s enough. You also have to consider the activity level of the cat...and colder temperatures call for a higher caloric intake.

 

[movie zombie]

dry cat food is mostly carbohydrates no matter what the bag says. the nutrition that cats really need is missing. i''ve been doing a lot research on this due to the number of cats i have and the illnesses i''ve run into with them as they''ve aged. dry food is empty calories.

and i quote:

The three key negative issues associated with dry food are:
1) type of protein - too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins
2) carbohydrate load is too high
3) water content is too low

poke around here for some good info about feeding your cats: http://www.catinfo.org/ the information is written by a vet.

moving will upset the balance for cats for awhile. if they are indoor cats and this is a large home, they''ll be moving around more. however, just because they''re chubby doesn''t mean they aren''t hungry: dry food cats get chubby from the extra carbohydrate load. i actually do think your cats are trying to tell you something: feed us real cat food!

i''ve got one very over weight girl kitty and since i''ve stopped all dry food she''s slowly losing weight. if you insist on feeding dry food, try and get one w/o corn or wheat which were never part of the cat carnivore diet. but that is true also of wet food.

after doing a bunch of research, i found this website and i think its the most comprehensive and easiest to understand.

movie zombie

 

[CaliCushion]

I have dogs, not cats. However, I can''t stress enough the benefits of feeding your pets a diet of human-grade meats, with little of no chemicals and fillers such as soy, wheat, or corn. Many popular brands, including Purina, contain a lot of fillers and can also contain animal by products. While qualty foods may be a little more expensive (and really, many are not much more expensive), you actually can feed your pets less because the food doesn''t contain as many fillers and they will get full quicker. Two I''d recommend are Felidae and Wellness, but there''s many other good foods. Just make sure to check that the first ingredients are meats (not meat by products) and that it doesn''t contain a lot of fillers or chemicals.

 

[cellososweet]

congrats on the new house first of all. and i have to agree that it might be the quality of food. my cats got hungrier with age, but luckily their metabolism has kept up. also, if they are scared, lonely, running around more than usual, this can change their appetite. purina is what i always refer to as burger king. my mom''s cats eat it and got fatter in their old age. i feed my cats either wellness of innova evolution. the innova is good, but they plow through it and it doesn''t keep them full as long as the Wellness. The Wellness comes in a pink bag (i think it''s salmon) and you can find retailers online if you look, I think. Not sure where you are or I would look for you. These two brands are high protein and a lower carb concentration than other foods. Plus, they have organic materials which cuts down on gasiness, vomiting and hairballs. One bad side effect, their ummmm. . . waste is smelly! If they cover it, it''s not even noticeable, but g-d help you if they don''t! pew! haha. . it''s a great investment though and i wouldn''t feed my kids anything else

 

[misysu2]

This couldn''t have come at a more perfect time. My cat is CRAZY hungry all the time. He will race us to the kitchen, and BEGS FOR FOOD WHEN THERE''S STILL FOOD IN HIS BOWL!! Meanwhile, his fat is slinging all over the place and he''s getting bigger and bigger. He actually scavanges and eats junk off the floor!

Do you think this is the same problem? I also feed him Purina.

 

[misysu2]

I think I'm going to go pick up some Wellness brand and wean him off the Purina. Do you think Weight Management variety or indoor cat variety would be better?

 

[sumbride]

We free feed the weight management kibble, but we also give them wet food twice a day and Lucy went from a whopping 14 pounds (on kibble and 1 can a day) to 12 pounds on 2 cans a day and kibble if she''s still hungry. My vet recommended wet food only because cats don''t need a lot of carbs, but since we don''t have the best schedule, we leave kibble out to make sure they don''t starve if we''re stuck in traffic.

 

[Elmorton]

Thanks for all of the input, everyone! I think we''ll definitely be trying some new foods. My gut feeling before I posted was that their food wasn''t doing something, but DH pointed out that they''ve been eating the same thing for awhile. I think now that they are running like crazy with the extra space they''re probably using up more energy, and that''s where we''re run into such a change. Yay for the PS sleuths! You guys are good. Today, btw, Morty was so antsy for his food that the pawed my hand causing me to spill it everywhere! I think you''re 100% right, they are trying to tell us something.

I had no idea that the carb fillers were bad (although duh, it makes sense that they are if too many carbs are bad for humans)! The kind of Purina we use is supposed to have wheat grasses and all sorts of organic stuff in it, which means I''ve been very duped by advertising...that stuff isn''t good for them at all. Rrrrg! I was surprised to find out that Iams does this too. When Morty was a kitten until we got Elmo I fed Eukanuba. Is Science Diet the same in terms of fillers? That''s the kind my old vet always had on the shelves.

Thanks for the info on the Wellness brand - I think that will definitely be the first thing we try. I don''t really know what all we have here in terms of pet stores, but I''m sure we have a Petsmart or Petco. Do they sell it there? For those of you using wet food (I''m thinking since we DO have regular feeding times for them, using wet food wouldn''t be difficult) - what brands do you suggest?

Again, thanks guys for your advice! Morty and Elmo thank you too!!

 

[laine]

I feed Innova EVO (and Cello is so right about the "odor"), and the cats seem to be doing well on it. The kitten is getting bigger and eating alot more, so it got a bit expensive, so I've started mixing in about 1/3 regular food (a better mainstream brand) and 2/3 Innova, which seems to be a pretty good compromise in terms of cost and quality.

Innova has a store locater on their webpage that lists retail stores that sell it, I'm sure Wellness does as well. I doubt you'll find these brands at Petsmart. In our area (a small town), you can get Wellness and some other high end brands at the "fancy" pet supply store, the Innova I find at a small pet food store that is part of a vets office.

ETA: According to what I've read, mostly here on PS, Science Diet is just as bad as the other mainstream brands, they just market it to vets so it seems better and give it free to vets for their own use so they will tell clients they use it. Don't know if its 100% true, but I don't use it. Science Diet does make specialized food for various health issues that are said to be good, and can be a lifesaver if you need it, but I wouldn't bother with their regular food.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

What gorgeous kitties!

 

[movie zombie]

please go to the website i provided for answers to almost any and every question you can have re feeding your cat. its the old saying, about giving fish or learning to catch fish. i have all kinds of info i can give you but i recommend you learn it for yourself so you won''t be dupped again by advertisement.

there is only one decent dry food and that is Wellness and even that is 28% carbs when cats need less than 1/2 that. if you must feed dry, this is the one.

Wellness is the best wet canned food. see the website for how to calculate what you''re giving your cat so you can compare.

one doesn''t need to leave dry food out 24/7 the way i used to do. i now leave wet food. i feed in the a.m. and i leave enough for all day. at night i feed again and leave enough for all night. it does not go bad in that amount of time...in fact, a few of my cats will eat the food left out longest rather than the new offering.

having said all above, i used to use Iams and Royal Canin among other dry foods as it was days. then my cats started to age and i started to have problems with their health. its easy to say its because their older but my research indicates that is not the case. i have to be truthful and say i used to feed my cats Wellness dry and Wellness canned. i took them off dry and onto wet only. they then refused to eat Wellness canned. i even tried a can of organic chicken from pet guard and it smelled and looked good enough for human consumption. i''m now using trader joes chicken and pet guard fancy feast. i hope to one day have them back on canned Wellness.

another friend of mine took her cats off their usual wet food and put them onto Wellness with no problem.

also, stay away from beef even in Wellness if you can.

and please please please for your cats'' sake, go to the website and read!

movie zombie

ps feed your cat quality cat food is much less expensive than going to the vet for the diseases and problem associated with poor cat food choices. diabetes is one.......

 

[chrono]

I used to feed my cat Science Diet since the vets carried them and recommended it to me. I thought I was doing the right thing and Science Diet isn''t exactly cheap either. Over time, she kept getting fatter and fatter, yet was hungry all the time. I had no clue and just changed to the lite version which didn''t help at all. She ballooned to over 12 lbs!

All these junk dry food damaged her kidneys over the years. Then she started throwing up, peed a lot and became dangerously skinny. She dropped to about 7 lbs and was nothing but skin and bones. In desperation (and with the approval of my vet), I googled for information on her kidney condition and came across studies of a true cat''s protein diet and I learned about by-products, grains, fillers and etc.

Now, my cat is on 100% wet food. 1 can split up and fed 2x a day which I leave out all day. It doesn''t spoil in the 12 hours that I leave it out. She''s regained weight to a very healthy 9 or 10 lbs. Her coat is glossy again and she is full of energy for a 13 year old dame. Her kidney condition has also improved and she has stopped puking. I really believe that a high protein low carb diet is what helped and I have been fooled by marketing and the pet food industry.

I get my cat food from various places.
Petsmart has Avoderm, Nature by Organics (or something like that), Nutro Natural Choice which are so-so. Some brown rice but at least not too much. No by-products and no other fillers.
My local petstore carries Wellness in various flavours and Natural Balance.
Or I sometimes buy from www.petfooddirect.com. They run sales regularly and I buy when I get the 20% off discount to offset the shipping fees.

I normally get a variety of brands and flavours and rotate them daily so that my kitty will not get too used to one flavour and get picky.

 

[Haven]

Food quality is so important, we feed our kitties a mix of Welness and Innova, both dry and wet. I hope changing the brands will work for you.

Also--please don''t free-feed your kitties! (I see it was suggested earlier.) Overweight kitties are more likely to develop health problems, just like overweight people, but kitties don''t know any better so they''ll just eat and eat and eat. I get so sad every time I see an overweight pet.

Good luck and CONGRATS on the new house! Your kitties are ADORABLE!

 

[Haven]

Chrono--Good for you for taking care of your sick kitty! My 17-year-old Mazi has kidney disease, and we changed her diet and we''ve been giving her fluid for about two years (via big scary needles in the back of her neck, no less!) and she''s doing great. I was devastated when we first got the diagnosis, but she is thriving! My other 17-year-old Bootsie has hyperthyroidism and she''s doing great too. We changed her diet as well and we give her a smear of meds in her ears twice a day.

 

[amy_dub]

Here''s my 12 cents (yes, 12). I work at a pet store which promotes animal rescue and sales absolutely NO pets. We are a privately owned family business that has been in Knoxville since 1976. I also volunteer for cat & dog rescues, so i''ve been around the ever illusive "what can i feed?" problem. This is what i have learned from my experience at the store, through rescue, and after sitting through numerous information sessions on pet food products.

DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT feed any food made by Purina, Science diet, Iams or Eukanuba. These foods are nothing but by products and corn. Science diet is by far the worse. You might as well feed your cat cardboard because that is the nutritional value of it. Because there is so little nutrional value in this, you have to feed 2-3 times as much. Science Diet also puts WAY too many preservatives in their foods. They use a presevative that is found in Paprika that an average human can safely take in like 10 ppm. well in science diet, it''s like 1000 ppm. Also, Iams and Eukanuba (made by the same company) do very extensive and cruel animal testing. The Iams company purposely puts cats into renal failure then feeds them their products to see how the kidneys react. Purina uses tons of unnecessary food colorings in their foods. Red dye #40 is one of the worst and is well known to cause stomach issues. I do fundraising for a feral cat rescue and they will not feed any of their cats (even ferals) any of these foods because their cats get so sick.

I was pointblank told by our Nutro representative that they have "kennels" that Nutro works with to test their foods. Samples from each batch of food is given to these kennels and if the dogs do not show any signed of illness in 4 days, the food is then shipped out. This really rubs me the wrong way, because I feel like they should be quality testing the food instead of waiting to see if some dogs die from it. They also say "Well our foods contain corn glueten because it is the only part of the corn that is digestible." to which i want to reply "who cares if it''s digestible, cats and dogs don''t need it!"

As for Wellness foods, the dry food is a good but i''m a little iffy on the wet food. Menu foods (the company involved in all of the canned food recalls) produces the wellness canned food. However, Wellness foods do not contain any of the presevatives or fillers that the cans involved in the recalls contained, so in theory is should be a safe and nutritional food. I guess my thing is that I don''t want to be supporting Menu foods by purchasing foods they have produced.

Foods I would recommend? Any food made by the Natura company; California Natural, Innova, Innova Evo or Healthwise. Innova Evo is comparable to feeding a raw diet because it is very high in protein and contains NO GRAIN. All of these foods are tested before they are shipped out, they contain no colorants, no by-products, are made with human grade ingrediants produced here in the US and they have their own facility that makes the foods. Can foods have a very high water content so of course they are not at nutritional as feeding dry kibble. It''s also better to have dry kibble as your pets main source of dietry intake because it helps keep the gums and teeth healthy. I personally feed my German Shepherd and Greater Swiss Mountain Dog (a retired show dog) Innova Large breed.

Other foods you may want to look into:
The Honest Kitchen. This company produces dehydrated raw diets that you can add your own meats and vegetables to if you want. They are also on the PETA "Do not test list."
Primal. this is a frozen raw diet. I can''t really get into this because I can''t stand raw meat. generally cats are very hard to convert to this.
Merrick''s. Also an excellent family owned company. I fed their canned foods to my elderly 13 yr old English setter before he passed away when he refused to eat. He BEGGED for their food. They also own their own facility.

I hope this helps. I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

 

[amy_dub]

Date: 12/19/2007 11:21:43 AM
Author: laine

ETA: According to what I''ve read, mostly here on PS, Science Diet is just as bad as the other mainstream brands, they just market it to vets so it seems better and give it free to vets for their own use so they will tell clients they use it. Don''t know if its 100% true, but I don''t use it. Science Diet does make specialized food for various health issues that are said to be good, and can be a lifesaver if you need it, but I wouldn''t bother with their regular food.

Science diet prescription diets are just as bad! from most of what i''ve read, they are formulated to continue to cause problems so that you''ll continue to use their products.

Most vets recommend SD because they get kick back from it for selling it in their offices. Plus in vet schools, vets spend very little time on nutrition and just recommend whatever the learn in clinicals, which is generally SD because SD funds some vet programs.

 

[sumbride]

Wheatgrass isn''t bad if it is real... we buy it at the farmers market for Bill who gets SO excited when we show it to him! It''s also really easy to grow it yourself, but we are lazy. I think the difference is "fresh" vs. "ground up and stuffed into kibble". Fresh is better for them. Cats do need "veggies", and Bill, who was a stray for a year before we took him in, loves a good salad before meals. It also keeps the hairballs down.

We use fancy feast canned. I know it''s not "the best" but it isn''t that bad either and was one of the few canned foods to not be included in the recall earlier this year. Plus the cats actually eat it. We tried the fancy expensive top of the line cat food. They wouldn''t eat it and we''re already spending almost $100 a month on cat food, so we stick with what is keeping them healthy and happy.

 

[misysu2]

Hey Amy-dub, last time Amos went to the vet, she said if he gained any more weight, he''d trek into overweight-land. He''s got this big fatty wad of tissue on his belly and a big layer alond his back. Do you think I should shift him to reduced fat or regular cat food? Would he just eat less of the regular cat food and let him lose it slowly or should I be aggressive about his losing weight and go with the reduced fat?

Also, I know you slowly start to incorporate new food and gradually phase the old out. How long should I spread that out?

AMOS thanks you!! Meow!

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Thanks for all the info on cat nutrition. I started going through that site. Looks like my kitties will be converting to wet food. Now I just need to find out where to buy the proper stuff locally!

 

[chrono]

I check this site regularly in deciding what to feed my kitty because not all cat food are the same. Sometimes even good brands or organic ones have something that I don't agree with:
http://alter-idem.smartmonkey.org/cats/goodbadandugly.htm

Just like with human food, I now read lables with cat food. This lengths I go through for my cat...but she's worth it.

 

[lumpkin]

I''ve been feeding our cat Promise cat food from Whole Foods. Can''t find it at the regular grocery stores. It''s endorsed by Dr. Andrew Weil who is a nutrition author whose philosophy is that most of our health problems come from what we eat/don''t eat.

I''m going to check into your info, Moviezombie. What you say makes a lot of sense, and we''re almost out of the Promise anyway, so maybe we can try something new.

 

[FireGoddess]

Re: the SD prescription diets....I've read that they are recc'd by vets because the vets get kickbacks, but I'm scared to change my kitty's food away from that because she had kidney stones and frequent UTIs before, and since the surgery and going on that SD prescription diet 8 years ago, she has had NO further problems. But I worry that she could be getting better food. Yet I don't want to risk giving her those old problems back if this stuff is working.

My new kitty gets Wellness canned and dry foods. I've been tempted to switch her to EVO, but she likes the Wellness just fine and I'm sure it's better than most stuff out there. I can also get the Wellness at a pet club store near me, whereas the EVO would require some 'searching out.' (Also the phosphorous content and renal deficiency stuff makes me wary just cuz of the issues my older cat has so I figure I just won't 'go there.')

 

[DiamanteBlu]

OK, I couldn't find Wellness nearby today so I got the AvoDerm select cuts. All 3 cats and the siamese got half a can each and they sucked it down. Looks like we will be changing from the Iams active maturity!

 

[Elmorton]

So I''m horrified/embarrassed to admit this-

When I went to the store today, I started looking at the regular shelf cat foods. Yes, the brand we feed is FULL of filler. I bought a bag of Iams and a couple of packets that listed protein first and did not list a bunch of wheat gluten - I''m sure it''s not the best, but it''s an improvement.

That''s not what I''m embarrassed/upset about -

Our kitties should be eating 1 cup to 1 cup and 1/4 of food a day! I completely misread the bag and have been feeding them for half their weight. I''m going to burn in cat-hell, I swear.

So clearly, there is more in their bowls tonight. I am so ashamed...

Anyway, thank you all so much for helping!

 

[zoebartlett]

Darn! We have two cats that are a year old (3 months apart, not siblings) and one of them is just a smidge overweight. The vet said that he''d like her to lose a little weight, and he recommended that we feed them a total of a 1/2 cup during the day. We feed both cats 1/4 cup in the morning in two separate bowls and 1/4 cup in the evening as well. Our female is always crying for food, especially if we go into the kitchen. We should call the vet and see what kind of food he recommends. Right now we''re feeding both cats Iams dry food (we alternate which kind). I had heard that wet food is bad for cats'' teeth but maybe we should consider it. Hmmm...

 

[misysu2]

The Wellness website said that our local Whole Foods carries the line. I''m going to check it out tonight-- will maybe stay with dry food as a base and give wet food as treats.

Either way, I''m hoping that getting him off Purina Cat Chow will improve his overgrooming, mood, and constant begging.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I feed Innova EVO 95% and love love love it. The cats' favorite is the beef flavor. I used to feed raw but out of consideration for my roommate, I stopped--and the 95% is really almost exactly as good, with less hassle and worry about safety.


My analogy with my friends who are cat owners that tell my their cats just love their kibble, how could they give them a food that they love any less, is this--Humans LOVE pizza and snickers, too. You're feeding the cat Twinkies


My cats ADORE dry kibble. The go INSANE at the smell. It's so creepy, I wonder what they spray it with.

 

[poshpepper]

Date: 12/19/2007 12:18:06 AM
Author: movie zombie

poke around here for some good info about feeding your cats: http://www.catinfo.org/ the information is written by a vet.

Thank you for the link!!!! I am convinced I need to change my cats diets. They have not had any issues (yet) and are both healthy weights, but the things that I read are pretty shocking.

No more dry food for my cats!