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bad experience with whiteflash

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Lesley, great documenting of communications, Targa, seems like they''ve worked to come up with a good alternative, if you let WF double check your specs on your ring, I hope you''ll move forward with this...especially since you''ve taken care to bring all of this forward (do you disagree with Lesley''s recording of dates and efforts?).

It''s hard to be perfect, but this I think makes WF look pretty good. Based on a few e-mails and calls to them in the past I have made, I would also say they are not perfect, but maybe if they were, they would need more business to get in their way, so they were less than perfect.

Personally, I need to update my calendar, get more fit, and be more responsive to lots of people in my life. Meanwhile, let''s all promise to do our best. I will.

Happy holidays.
 
Group hug
 
Targa,

I'm sorry that you lost your stone, I know how attached you can become to a stone and start to consider it yours.

Well I have to chime in because when my boyfriend decided on a stone, he asked them to hold it for him. While we were hammering the details of the setting out (for a good two weeks) they kept it for us. Now perhaps no one wanted my stone
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so we didn't have any problems.....BUT I would like to say that my boyfriend asked repeatedly (like every time he was on the phone with them
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) if WF wanted a deposit, but they said "No. It's ok, we know who you guys are, we will hold it for you." So I'm wondering if perhaps WF doesn't usually take deposits for stones? I have to admit, I was surprised that they held the stone for us for so long without a deposit,and we did worry incessently about losing the stone. We realized that asking them to hold something like that for 2 weeks with only a verbal committement was rather tenuous (but very nice none the less).

All that being said, my boyfriend was in constant contact with them during the two weeks, and once he said the money would be wired, they recieved it right away. I think it must be really, really hard for them to distinguish if someone is actually going to buy the stone, or if they just changed their mind (probably happens a lot). So in this case, I think they did the best they could given the crazy holiday proposal season.

In any case Targa I know you must be really disappointed, because my boyfriend would have been devestated if he had loss his stone. It sounds like some miscommunication, with a little bit of bad luck tossed in (what are the chances that someone wants the exact stone almost right away) Does the second stone appeal to you? I think the second one is very pretty, and very, very similar to the one you originally had your heart set on. If it's not quite what you want, you can always ask them to find you something that you love as much as the first stone. Good luck!
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Date: 12/22/2005 2:04:58 PM
Author: targa
yes, wf was nice for holding the stone for me-however, if they had just said NO, we can''t hold the stone, then i wouldn''t have invested in the ring.
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What am I missing here? Why can you not buy another stone the same size to put in your ring? There is always a little tolerance for the size of the diamond, or am I missing something?

Wink
 
I think part of the problem is that Pricescope creates this false sense of buddy-buddy-ness, and customers lose sight of the fact that though Wink and Lesley H and Rhino et al. are very nice people, they are in the business of MAKING MONEY.

Targa, I think you strung Whiteflash along just a bit. My feeling is that they were very generous in terms of holding the diamond for you, probably moreso than if you were a non-Pricescoper. This is a very busy time of year, and if someone wanted that diamond, had the money ready to go...I cannot fault them for selling it. I do hope you find another stone, quickly.
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Date: 12/22/2005 10:13:08 PM
Author: MrsFrk
I think part of the problem is that Pricescope creates this false sense of buddy-buddy-ness, and customers lose sight of the fact that though Wink and Lesley H and Rhino et al. are very nice people, they are in the business of MAKING MONEY.

Targa, I think you strung Whiteflash along just a bit. My feeling is that they were very generous in terms of holding the diamond for you, probably moreso than if you were a non-Pricescoper. This is a very busy time of year, and if someone wanted that diamond, had the money ready to go...I cannot fault them for selling it. I do hope you find another stone, quickly.
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i agree. i learned long ago that if i really want something, i''d better move on it or it won''t be there later. the good news is that diamonds....good diamonds....are available. you may actually end up with a better stone.......

peace, movie zombie
 
Thats the nice thing about rounds good ones are all around :}
Now if it was a good asscher you missed out on it would be a tragedy!
 
"I think part of the problem is that Pricescope creates this false sense of buddy-buddy-ness, and customers lose sight of the fact that though Wink and Lesley H and Rhino et al. are very nice people, they are in the business of MAKING MONEY."

LOL MrsFrk! They aren't just looking for internet buddies? You're cute! I think we can become buddies...but customers first!
 
Here Here to the assher comment!!!
Round stone lovers just don''t get how we non round lovers suffer.
 
Mum is the word on whether or not they are looking for Internet buddies.
Don''t ask, don''t tell is my philosophy.
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Yes, I think that they can be our buds, but business is business.
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Those WhiteFlash people should be tarred, feathered, flogged, drawn & quartered.

Holding a $12,000 1.5 carat primo stone at the busiest time of year for almost three weeks with absolutely no money put on it.

Unbelievable...
 
Date: 12/22/2005 11:15:59 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Those WhiteFlash people should be tarred, feathered, flogged, drawn & quartered.

Holding a $12,000 1.5 carat primo stone at the busiest time of year for almost three weeks with absolutely no money put on it.

Unbelievable...
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I just cracked up, thanks for the laugh Richard. So true!! Oh and Storm, I hear ya on the asscher!!!!
 
Well not to be the legally correct person, but in contract law, we see that Whiteflash did nothing wrong.
A rejection (selling the item to someone else) is not acceptable until the person ''received'' the rejection.

That said, had the person paid for the stone prior to receiving the email, and then found out it was sold, they would have a case/argument. However, if you read an email saying "Sorry, we can''t accept your offer to delay payment any longer, stone is sold" and have not paid PRIOR to reading that, you''re SOL.

The situation definately is sad, however when it comes to fairness and legalities, White Flash is off the hook. (would suggest that they do in fact call the customer at the ''do or die'' point: would ensure the customer received the rejection of their offer and can be easier to prove etc).

So for those of you that put diamonds on hold, be sure to pay for them ASAP if you TRULLY intend to purchase (if you''re thinking but not certain, i guess it''s not as vital, but still recommended). Otherwise, the second you receive the "Sorry but it''s been sold" email, if you haven''t paid, you lose. (note: something in an inbox isn''t received until it''s ''read''). Obviously the system is a little vague, but to be fair, customers can''t take advantage of merchants by ''purposefully not reading email''. That''s another legal issue altogether though (not relevant to this scenario).

Also i will say, holding any type of product (esp an expensive one) for as long as they did (appears to be close to 3 weeks) is definately above and beyond the standards of most businesses (regardless of the product type).

If anyone''s getting any ideas of abusing

So as before, if you trully intend to purchase, pay. And if you don''t have the money, get the money, and then enter the market.

Sorry for the lengthy deal, just figured that a legal aspect would be a fair approach to this type of situation.
(and being that i just wrote a thesis on this exact scenario (well almost, was an engagement ring, but same deal).

Whiteflash appears reasonable to me (dealt with them once personally, didn''t buy, but a friend did, and was very pleased with purchase. I went with a local jeweler instead, but Bob @ whiteflash was very prompt with emails to me etc).

Best of luck to the customer though, wish you the best of luck finding an alternative stone.
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Targa,

I''m sorry about all the trouble you are feeling. I know what it''s like to have your heart set on a piece of jewelry and the disappointment you feel when you cannot have it. With that being said, it''s time to move on and find your next stone. The one Lesley offered looks gorgeous! I''m sure you''d be just as happy with that one and it will fit in your custom setting. Compared to other jewelers, a stone of that quality and price is hard to find! I''d snatch it up.
 
what the heck are you talking about tkr? LOL. ... Don't make me get out the uniform commercial code LOLOL... J/K
 
I think that new stone that Lesley posted looks fabulous!!! It''s so close to the one that was sold, would it work in your setting, Targa?
 
Date: 12/23/2005 1:53:49 AM
Author: tkr
Well not to be the legally correct person, but in contract law, we see that Whiteflash did nothing wrong.
A rejection (selling the item to someone else) is not acceptable until the person ''received'' the rejection.

That said, had the person paid for the stone prior to receiving the email, and then found out it was sold, they would have a case/argument. However, if you read an email saying ''Sorry, we can''t accept your offer to delay payment any longer, stone is sold'' and have not paid PRIOR to reading that, you''re SOL.

The situation definately is sad, however when it comes to fairness and legalities, White Flash is off the hook. (would suggest that they do in fact call the customer at the ''do or die'' point: would ensure the customer received the rejection of their offer and can be easier to prove etc).

So for those of you that put diamonds on hold, be sure to pay for them ASAP if you TRULLY intend to purchase (if you''re thinking but not certain, i guess it''s not as vital, but still recommended). Otherwise, the second you receive the ''Sorry but it''s been sold'' email, if you haven''t paid, you lose. (note: something in an inbox isn''t received until it''s ''read''). Obviously the system is a little vague, but to be fair, customers can''t take advantage of merchants by ''purposefully not reading email''. That''s another legal issue altogether though (not relevant to this scenario).

Also i will say, holding any type of product (esp an expensive one) for as long as they did (appears to be close to 3 weeks) is definately above and beyond the standards of most businesses (regardless of the product type).

If anyone''s getting any ideas of abusing

So as before, if you trully intend to purchase, pay. And if you don''t have the money, get the money, and then enter the market.

Sorry for the lengthy deal, just figured that a legal aspect would be a fair approach to this type of situation.
(and being that i just wrote a thesis on this exact scenario (well almost, was an engagement ring, but same deal).

Whiteflash appears reasonable to me (dealt with them once personally, didn''t buy, but a friend did, and was very pleased with purchase. I went with a local jeweler instead, but Bob @ whiteflash was very prompt with emails to me etc).

Best of luck to the customer though, wish you the best of luck finding an alternative stone.
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I''m with MMM. What the heck are you talking about? No one has mentioned any legal action, nor do I think anyone was anticipating "abusing". Don''t complicate things with legaleze please. It''s nice that you wrote a thesis and all but this whole scenario just boils down to the customer taking too long to put his money where his mouth was, so to speak, and him losing out on the diamond he wanted. He was unhappy with how it turned out but that''s about as far as it goes.
 
I agree with everyone that says "Whiteflash did nothing wrong". "Buyers are liars" they say, and Whiteflash had no way of knowing, every time you said the wire was forthcoming and it did not arrive, if you were indeed a serious buyer.
 
i want to thank everyone for their vigorous responses! after a frustrating diamond week they did make me laugh. and i made it a point to check my mail today!!!
to summarize:

1. yes, wf was nice for holding the stone for me
2. yes, wf was courteous and yes, i like lesley-she was always helpful when I called her
3. why did someone bring up legal stuff- there was no legal issue here
4. yes, i should have paid for the diamond earlier
5. yes, dumb of me to build a ring around a stone that i didn''t have in my hands
6. but i still think they should have called me-communication is part of customer service no matter how dumb the customer is!
(in fact they never did call even after my string of s.o.s. emails after the stone was sold).
I am going to take a week off from diamonds, enjoy the holidays with my family, and then I may call WF when i am ready to buy another stone.
 
This is a very busy time of year. Also, sometimes people tie up a stone and then buy elsewhere. As soon as Lesley found stone I wanted, I called her immediately and had it sent to an appraiser so I could see it. She did not ask me for a deposit but I think there was a definite indication that I was serious because I was going to pay for an appraisal.

I had to see the stone and decide quickly because, if I wanted it, I did not want to take a chance on losing it. It was I who put a rush on it, not Whiteflash.

I think it was generous of them to take a stone off the market for 3 weeks at this time of year in the first place. Also, there is a difference between payment by a bank tranfer, where the merchant gets the money from your account immediately--usually within a few hours or less, and a credit card payment where they have to pay a charge and wait to see if your credit card clears.

Often, on a purchase of this large amount, there are problems and the credit card company will take the time to call you to make certain you have made this purchase and that an authorized purchaser is using the card. I have had this happen to me several times on much smaller amounts because, even though I have not exceeded my credit limit, there is something suspicious to them about the purchase and they will check before authorization. This can cause further delay in payment to the vendor particularly if you are not home to receive the call. I am not saying that this happened to you but it is a very frequent occurrence and I am sure vendors take this into consideration on creditcard payments.

I hope you get the ring you want either from Whiteflash or another vendor. Best of luck and Happy Holidays.
 
Date: 12/23/2005 2:38:01 PM
Author: targa

to summarize:


1. yes, wf was nice for holding the stone for me
2. yes, wf was .......

I am going to take a week off from diamonds, enjoy the holidays with my family, and then I may call WF when i am ready to buy another stone.

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Wow! Now, you surely do have great sense of humor! It doesn''t take any diamonds to show that.

Happy Holidays! And even happier diamond hunting afterwards
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Hi Targa

I have read what happened, though i empatize in your plight and have not dealt with WF, i feel sorry for you as an online consumer and i feel sorry for WF too, as even though i have not bought from them and kinda had a misunderstanding with them, John from WF cleared the air.. which i was grateful for. You can read my posting.. (Please help.. Diamond ear studs dilemma...)

So Targa its natural to feel this way but i hope that you will not be discouraged to buy your diamonds online as i have had a wonderful experience with Spencers & Spencers. Even when i haven''t bought from WF ,John was very eager to make me feel comfortable to the extend that in future i will consider them first! So dun let this one little setback stop you from your main aim.. a beautiful diamond for your love.

I wish you luck and hope that you will feel better soon..
Btw Merry Christmas!! Remember to smile..
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Date: 12/22/2005 11:15:59 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Those WhiteFlash people should be tarred, feathered, flogged, drawn & quartered.

Holding a $12,000 1.5 carat primo stone at the busiest time of year for almost three weeks with absolutely no money put on it.
Click to expand...

lol. yeah I was thinking the same thing
 

Date: 12/22/2005 11:15:59 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Those WhiteFlash people should be tarred, feathered, flogged, drawn & quartered.
Holding a $12,000 1.5 carat primo stone at the busiest time of year for almost three weeks with absolutely no money put on it

________________________________________________

Tarred and Feathered? Flogged ? Drawn & Quartered ????


THAT DON''T SOUND KOSHER TO ME .....

( Besides Feathers and Tar, don''t taste very good, even on the most horrid Chanukah celebrations ! )

Rockdoc
 
I personally have never been too much of a wf fan. I am surprised that everyone here recommends them so. Yes, their site is stunning and you can search for specifics and their people act friendly and they are great contributors to the board. But I don''t care about that. I care about respect- such as-returning calls and honesty-tell me the truth if it is an ugly stone!

The 40 dollar call in fee urks me as well. If it "performs" you pay even if you don''t like it. "Performs" is subjective. Anyhoo, I know I will get nasty private messages but I have been thinking this along time.

Quote from Kimberly



I had inquired of a few other vendors and they wanted much more than $40 to call in a stone. The vendors who drop ship directly to you do not charge a call-in charge. As to the performance of the stone that was called in for me, I was told by Lesley this if they did not feel it met their expectations, they would reject it and I was under no obligation to pay for having it called in.

Since you have the opportunity to either have it sent to an appraiser or send it back for a refund if you notify them within 10 days--this does not mean that it has to be back in their hands in 10 days--you would not have to accept an ugly stone. In my case, Brian who is vice president and a master cutter, gave me explicit information about the stone. Vendors do have to go to some trouble and expense to have stones sent in, examine them, discuss them with you and then ship them either to an appraiser or to you.

I do not think it would be worth their while to send out an ugly stone which they are likely to get back for $40.

When Brian called me to discuss my stone, I told him that I had some reluctance since it was an SI 2 and that my huband was willing to pay much more for a "better"stone. Brian said this stone was perfectly eye clean although it is large and I would have to look a long time and spend a lot more--which we were wiling to do-to find an Ideal cut in this size that looked better than this one.

I will admit that once in a while, a phone call or email was not returned promptly but I knew I was buying on-line and saving a lot of money. Also, I think that many people contact several on-line vendors who will all be looking for similar stones. I think it is reasonable to prioritize if time is short. If I did not hear from Lesley, I called or emailed her. Once she realized that mine was a serious prospective purchase and not just another inquiry she went all out to find the perfect stone for me.
 
i found tkr''s legal ''thesis'' interesting.....and a valid view point. while no one suggested that targa seek legal recourse, it is always interesting to me, anyway, to know a legal point of view. thanks, tkr!

we do seem to forget that 1-businesses are there to make $$$ and 2-we have a part of the ''contract'' to keep up as well as they do. as in all things its a two way street.

peace,movie zombie
 
I think my basis was a bit witty from a humorous standpoint :)
But to be fair, various people do tend to follow up on these complaints and use them as a form of leverage in order to ''take advantage of the merchant'', and i felt that it would seem fair to end any people thinking along those lines. Example: you are not a satisfied customer, so you complain, and sometimes you get a ''special deal''. This type of situation is not the type where you have any basis for that, and I wanted to point that out.

As many people posted before me, whiteflash did nothing wrong ethically.
So I figured I could put out a fire before it stops. The initial tone was "Whiteflash owes me *". So i pointed out that "no they don''t".

Again, I agree, it''s not a happy ending, but there are plenty of diamonds in the world, I''m sure another could be found :)

It''s best to just move on. No wrong done, no problem.
 
@moremoremore

LOL! :)

And I love the quote (sig)! Classic SNL.
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Date: 12/22/2005 10:13:08 PM
Author: MrsFrk
I think part of the problem is that Pricescope creates this false sense of buddy-buddy-ness, and customers lose sight of the fact that though Wink and Lesley H and Rhino et al. are very nice people, they are in the business of MAKING MONEY.

Targa, I think you strung Whiteflash along just a bit. My feeling is that they were very generous in terms of holding the diamond for you, probably moreso than if you were a non-Pricescoper. This is a very busy time of year, and if someone wanted that diamond, had the money ready to go...I cannot fault them for selling it. I do hope you find another stone, quickly.
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hey wait a minute!!!
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since when did PS vendors change their business strategy?
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i always thought they''re here to make friends and LOSE MONEY.
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Date: 12/23/2005 8:50:41 PM
Author: tkr
I think my basis was a bit witty from a humorous standpoint :)
But to be fair, various people do tend to follow up on these complaints and use them as a form of leverage in order to ''take advantage of the merchant'', and i felt that it would seem fair to end any people thinking along those lines. Example: you are not a satisfied customer, so you complain, and sometimes you get a ''special deal''. This type of situation is not the type where you have any basis for that, and I wanted to point that out.

As many people posted before me, whiteflash did nothing wrong ethically.
So I figured I could put out a fire before it stops. The initial tone was ''Whiteflash owes me *''. So i pointed out that ''no they don''t''.

Again, I agree, it''s not a happy ending, but there are plenty of diamonds in the world, I''m sure another could be found :)

It''s best to just move on. No wrong done, no problem.
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That''s exactly what I was going to say. Awesome that you have come to the same conclusion. Sounds like a simple miscommunication that probably could have been handled better from both sides, but that''s why they say "20/20 hindsight." What is great is that there was no actual $ lost from either party, and I''m sure that WF or another vendor will be able to help you find a gorgeous stone to fit in your setting. I hope that this bump in the road won''t detract too much from the engagement experience, but it sounds like you are already bouncing back :)
 
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