Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictures)

A

augenbraunj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
18
I am on my fourth attempt to get a really simple solitaire fabricated. Attached are pictures of all four attempts. All we wanted was the delicate prongs and 2mm shank of the Tiffany solitaire, just with the diamond set lower. It is amazing it is so hard to get this done competently.

Anyone have a recommendation for a real jeweler who can actually do this????

- Joe

four_attempts_at_a_simple_0.jpg
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

I don't see how any of them are failures (other than the JA one that is too high). The CADS are always less delicate looking than the finished product!

You actually want the diamond extending down to the base of the shank??? The Tiffany diamond is set low!
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

I apologize, my picture seems to have been shrunk by PriceScope. I've broken it up into three pictures, hopefully these are clearer.

four_attempts_at_a_simple_solitaire1.jpg

four_attempts_at_a_simple_solitaire2.jpg

four_attempts_at_a_simple_solitaire3.jpg
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Okay, that helped a lot! James Allen just isn't a custom ring maker, so that was sort of a dead end before you began. Did WF say they could not further revise their CAD? I feel certain they could have made more delicate prongs, and obviously the shank can be made to any width you want.

I don't really know who to recommend for this. I have a Vatche repro of the Tiffany round, but you need to go custom because you have the stone set so low. Maybe try Engagement Rings Direct. I guess you realize it is going to be hard to wear a wedding band with a diamond set that low, right? The Tiffany ring is about the lowest you can go and have a band fit relatively close to it.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

I think it's time for you to buy the real thing. How much are you actually saving on this thing spending all this money on CAD work with others? I think James Allen's final go is actually the closest to the real thing, just a bit higher. I think the super low set head you want is actually going to make the prongs bulkier than you want. They're thinner in the Tiffany bec it's not jammed into the ring so low.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

diamondseeker2006|1362448978|3396397 said:
James Allen just isn't a custom ring maker, so that was sort of a dead end before you began.
Click to expand...

- That was a bit of a stake through my heart, but hey, I get it - custom isn't what we're known for...(yet).


Joe -
Yes, the first ring was a monster. To be fair, though, I was told we only went that route because you spent the lion's share of your budget on the diamond and didn't want to pay the premium associated with Custom. That being the case, the CSR suggested one of our most basic solitaires, but as you can tell from the pictures a large princess-cut diamond needs more than die-strike prongs to look elegant. As you mentioned, we canceled the order (at our expense and before shipping) and suggested we go back to the drawing board.

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd CAD's, well, I think the problem is a combination of scale and the limits of CAD. As to scale, a big diamond set into prongs without any lateral support is going to need some 'heft' to avoid flexing (and becoming loose so many times to make you crazy), and the fact that CAD is almost always going to look less elegant than the finished product.

I really hope you're able to get the perfect ring. If we make it, all the better. If not, however, please keep in mind that any designer has to balance your aesthetics with the often contrary aspect of durability. Neither JA or WF created these CAD's for free (regardless of whether you paid any fee's, which I know we did not charge you), so please keep this all in perspective. There might be someone out there willing to make your ring with feather light prongs, but understand that if the diamond falls out a few months later you'll be ultimately more frustrated than you are today.

All the best,
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

James Allen Schultz|1362450370|3396416 said:
There might be someone out there willing to make your ring with feather light prongs, but understand that if the diamond falls out a few months later you'll be ultimately more frustrated than you are today.
Click to expand...
THIS is super important. You want to wear this thing (or for her to) for a long time right? Even Tiffany's prongs are not super duper thin. The thing has to be able to take whacks and wear without losing your stone. If you make it super duper thin it won't be able to hold up to that, and in a few months or maybe a year, your stone is gone. I like my stones set high, super high, but with that comes thicker prongs, and that's the trade off to having it set how I want it. Because I want my stone to stay there.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Joe -

There are many ways to go about this, but the best way IMO, for strength purposes and to limit porosity, is a semi-mount and the correct die-struck head. Nonetheless if CAD is the way to go, then that design is definitely feasible. Both JA and WF did the best they could with CAD because it does have its limitations in terms of look.

The finished piece is really what you are going for and with enough metal (i.e. bulky wax --> bulky cast), maybe the bench jeweler and/or setter will be able to give you the finished look by curving the interior of the head. Something like this is worth the shot in 14k gold and I am sure the aforementioned jewelers are more than capable of providing you with that quality piece.

It's unfortunate because you cannot buy a Tiffany setting without buying a Tiffany diamond, which is probably the reason why you wanted a Tiffany-inspired solitaire.

Stick through it, because this design is definitely feasible.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Thank you all, and in particular James Allen himself -- I really appreciate you jumping in. James Allen's (the company) service has been excellent, if my post came off as a complaint against the service level at the company it wasn't intended. I am frustrated that I can't seem to get what I'm hoping for, but it certainly isn't due to poor service at JA.

As far as my CAD having the diamond too low ... I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what I'm doing (I am certainly not a jewelry designer). It was meant to be a guide to the sort of thing we wanted, it's OK for the diamond to be higher, we just want it set as low as possible so that it is less vulnerable to daily dings, etc.

As far as budget for fabrication, I'm OK with spending whatever is the going rate for the level of hand work needed. It will still add up to much less than Tiffany's charges. I absolutely don't need to economize on the fabrication, so budget shouldn't be an issue here.

Here's where I'm confused: For each design I was told that the prongs couldn't be any thinner because they would be too weak. But the Tiffany setting has much thinner prongs, and it isn't too weak. I'm happy to spend the money to hand fabricate, so why is this so difficult to get?

- Joe
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Have you actually tried on the Tiffany or a similar ring in person? I wonder if the height will actually bother you as much as you think it will. It's a lot easier to scrutinize when the pictures are magnified 40x or whatever-- I think you may find that it doesn't seem as high as it looks when you actually see it in person.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

James Allen Schultz|1362450370|3396416 said:
diamondseeker2006|1362448978|3396397 said:
James Allen just isn't a custom ring maker, so that was sort of a dead end before you began.
Click to expand...

- That was a bit of a stake through my heart, but hey, I get it - custom isn't what we're known for...(yet).


Joe -
Yes, the first ring was a monster. To be fair, though, I was told we only went that route because you spent the lion's share of your budget on the diamond and didn't want to pay the premium associated with Custom. That being the case, the CSR suggested one of our most basic solitaires, but as you can tell from the pictures a large princess-cut diamond needs more than die-strike prongs to look elegant. As you mentioned, we canceled the order (at our expense and before shipping) and suggested we go back to the drawing board.

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd CAD's, well, I think the problem is a combination of scale and the limits of CAD. As to scale, a big diamond set into prongs without any lateral support is going to need some 'heft' to avoid flexing (and becoming loose so many times to make you crazy), and the fact that CAD is almost always going to look less elegant than the finished product.

I really hope you're able to get the perfect ring. If we make it, all the better. If not, however, please keep in mind that any designer has to balance your aesthetics with the often contrary aspect of durability. Neither JA or WF created these CAD's for free (regardless of whether you paid any fee's, which I know we did not charge you), so please keep this all in perspective. There might be someone out there willing to make your ring with feather light prongs, but understand that if the diamond falls out a few months later you'll be ultimately more frustrated than you are today.

All the best,
Click to expand...

Oh, Jim, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings or worse! I don't think you guys (and I mean any vendor) should try to be everything to everyone. I am sure you know I often recommend your diamonds because they sometimes fit best in someone's budget. Your niche is somewhere between the superideal, full service vendors with custom work and designer settings and the true drop shippers who don't even provide images. It is an important niche, in my opinion. I hope you keep your focus on good value and don't try to do it all. Better to stick to your niche and do it great than to do too much and not do some of it well (which I am sure you could, given the chance. It's just that we often recommend your rings and diamonds for people whose budget fit your current stock and pricing).
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

cygnet|1362459928|3396553 said:
Have you actually tried on the Tiffany or a similar ring in person? I wonder if the height will actually bother you as much as you think it will. It's a lot easier to scrutinize when the pictures are magnified 40x or whatever-- I think you may find that it doesn't seem as high as it looks when you actually see it in person.
Click to expand...

I agree. The Tiffany setting is about as low as it can be and look right.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Yes, she's tried on the Tiffany. Many times.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

Hm. Okay. Well, the best person I can think of to set it SUPER low is Leon Mege (setting stones low is kind of his thing), but he is quite pricey.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

I'm actually liking the BGD solitaire, I would inquire and see if he the head could be placed on a knife edge, that might give you the closest low set Tiffany look that you are trying to achieve. I thought that I'd mention that CADs always look bulkier and thicker than the final product, that's part of the limitation that posters above have mentioned. I've had to return a few settings in the past because I expected the ring to look like the online CAD images but it's just not the case....IRL they appear much more delicate. It can be quite frustrating trying to interpret the final vision and it takes lots of practice and attempts, even for the seasoned veterans on these boards.

I would contact Leon if budget isn't a concern, and you might also want to contact a local Vatche dealer and try on the U113, it may not sit as high as you think it does, and it's a beautiful Tiffany repro.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

This is a simple solitaire and I don't think it is hard to make. You are very detailed oriented and have something in mind of what you want. Just go with one of the hand fabrication vendors (Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch, Victor Canera) and I am pretty sure this ring can be had without much pain. But if this is the case of 'Champagne taste on a beer budget' then ... I guess you will have to go through the pain of more cad revisions.

I was trying to see if anyone was selling a Tiffany princess cut setting that would fit your diamond but no luck. I did find this gorgeous setting and I like the prongs on here far better (but biased .. never liked princess cuts). This look pretty darn good to me and far nicer than the traditional Tiffany solitaire (again ... biased as I never liked the original).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiffany-Co-PLAT-Princess-Square-Accents-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-4-13Ct-/230728722428
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

augenbraunj|1362447399|3396377 said:
I apologize, my picture seems to have been shrunk by PriceScope. I've broken it up into three pictures, hopefully these are clearer.
Click to expand...
The metal at the bottom of the prongs you want removed is there for a reason.
In your design light pressure is going to split it open like a grape.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

see image....

k-four_attempts_at_a_simple_solitaire1.jpg
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

You can see by the cads how both JA and WF are struggling to come up with a design you like with the needed strength and frankly your request can't be done the way you want it done and get a ring that will last.
Maybe they should have just said so rather than trying the cads and making you disappointed.
 
Re: Bad attempts to clone Tiffany Princess solitaire (pictur

I'm not a fan of setting diamonds low. I think it makes them look smaller and if I paid to have a larger diamond then you better believe I want it to look like a larger diamond.

You do realize that CADs will always look different from final product? I find it hard that WF couldn't get this right since I have seen some of their repo knife rings and they are gorgeous. I"m assuming Karl is correct and your ring that you posted in your CAD can't be made. If you want I would go back to WF and see what they CAN make. If you want to start fresh then use BGD. And if you want to pony up a bigger budget then by all means contact Leon, Steven, or Victor. I would also throw in ERD into the mix because I think they have great pricing and they are known for their HW, Cartier and Tiffany replicas.

Goodluck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top