Baby shower blunder - help!

[vespergirl]

Just to clarify on the propriety of second baby showers, I read in the Miss Manners book by Judith Martin that second showers are not appropriate because showers are for the MOTHER, not the BABY. The point of a shower (both bridal and baby) is to equip the woman with the things she will need for that next chapter of life (for brides, china and sheets, and for mothers-to-be, strollers, crib, etc.). If you want to give gifts to the baby, that's generally done during a baptism, baby-naming ceremony, etc., or at any other point AFTER the baby is born. That's different from a baby shower, but many people confuse the two these days.

Here is a recent Miss Manners column about this very topic:

DEAR MISS MANNERS -- I have been invited to a baby shower for a friend's second child. The first one is just turning 2 years old. I always thought baby showers were for your first child and you used the baby items again for your second child. To me it seems they are begging for gifts.
My daughter claims this is the norm these days. What is your opinion?

GENTLE READER -- That your daughter is right: Begging for gifts is normal these days. It is also vulgar, of course. You are also right that baby showers are supposed to be for the expectation of a baby's appearing in a household not already over-run with baby equipment.

But Miss Manners makes an exception for an informal gathering of the expectant mother's close friends who are moved to make a fuss over her a second -- or fifth -- time. However, the plea that a more formal gathering for the lady's entire acquaintance, complete with those detestable gift registries, would enable the guest of honor to parcel out her shopping is not charming.

Me again: I will cite the disclaimer about it being a cultural thing to have full-fledged second showers. My friend is from Brazil, and from what I now understand, it is customary there to have a big party for every baby.

 

[vespergirl]

Hey everyone, I appreciate all the feedback and opinions. I did get this all worked out with my friend last night. I had a mutual friend call to ask about the shower details (who was also invited), and I "came up" during the conversation. Mom-to-be said that she wasn't offended by what I said, only that she didn't know that Americans didn't traditionally do a big second shower (it turns out a few other of her American friends confirmed this when she asked them about it). She said that she would still love it if I was able to come, though.

So, I called her last night, and told her that I would be delighted to attend, and she said that she's really happy that I'm coming. There are no hard feelings either way - I didn't know that Latinas did big parties for second babies, and she didn't know that Americans generally don't do something as big for subsequent kids. It was more of a cultural misunderstanding, but now that I know that it won't be uncomfortable, I am happy to go.

That said, I am still just giving her the outfit I bought for her baby, and eschewing the $500 gift card that she asked for on her registry

 

[TravelingGal]

LOL, glad to hear it Vesper. Good for you.

I don't think it's Korean culture to have multiple showers, but boy, the way these women demand it, I think it's starting to BE culture! I think the last time I went to a casual shower at someone's house was MY shower (after refusing to have one for months). They're all at restaurants and even hotels now! Be glad your friend isn't asking you to throw you a swanky shower complete with red rose centerpieces.

 

[Shoopy]

Hey everyone, I appreciate all the feedback and opinions. I did get this all worked out with my friend last night. I had a mutual friend call to ask about the shower details (who was also invited), and I "came up" during the conversation. Mom-to-be said that she wasn't offended by what I said, only that she didn't know that Americans didn't traditionally do a big second shower (it turns out a few other of her American friends confirmed this when she asked them about it). She said that she would still love it if I was able to come, though.

So, I called her last night, and told her that I would be delighted to attend, and she said that she's really happy that I'm coming. There are no hard feelings either way - I didn't know that Latinas did big parties for second babies, and she didn't know that Americans generally don't do something as big for subsequent kids. It was more of a cultural misunderstanding, but now that I know that it won't be uncomfortable, I am happy to go.

That said, I am still just giving her the outfit I bought for her baby, and eschewing the $500 gift card that she asked for on her registry

Great that everything worked itself out!!

Yes, Latinas do And I bet she'll love the outfit!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I think the bigger problem is that A told B that she thought you were going to throw her a shower. Have you spoken to A? I am totally 100% with you on thinking that second showers are unnecessary, but if my close friend was expecting me to throw her a second shower, I'd probably do it (and make it more budget-friendly and low-key than the first). Maybe B got it in A's head that second showers are the norm now. At the very least you don't want B to have to be the messenger of this news. Even if A thought it was kind of silly to have a second shower, she might have gotten it in her head that she would be having one and might feel disappointed. I can see that happening to me.

As for your question about B, everything with B is out on the table. I think it's great that she admitted the awkwardness she felt and told you it was OK either way. It sounds like she's being very gracious. I'd go, but give a smallish gift. Who cares what the stroller and carseat givers think about your gift? They'll probably be thinking, "Darn, I wish I had just gotten an outfit! We didn't really have $75 to spend on a second shower . . ."

ETA: I see that you do feel better about stuff with B. Good!

 

[vespergirl]

I think the bigger problem is that A told B that she thought you were going to throw her a shower. Have you spoken to A? I am totally 100% with you on thinking that second showers are unnecessary, but if my close friend was expecting me to throw her a second shower, I'd probably do it (and make it more budget-friendly and low-key than the first). Maybe B got it in A's head that second showers are the norm now. At the very least you don't want B to have to be the messenger of this news. Even if A thought it was kind of silly to have a second shower, she might have gotten it in her head that she would be having one and might feel disappointed. I can see that happening to me.

As for your question about B, everything with B is out on the table. I think it's great that she admitted the awkwardness she felt and told you it was OK either way. It sounds like she's being very gracious. I'd go, but give a smallish gift. Who cares what the stroller and carseat givers think about your gift? They'll probably be thinking, "Darn, I wish I had just gotten an outfit! We didn't really have $75 to spend on a second shower . . ."

ETA: I see that you do feel better about stuff with B. Good!

Hey PG, I was a little worried about that too, but there was NO WAY that I was going to throw A a big shower for her second. I hosted at my house & totally paid for her bridal shower & first baby shower in the same year, and friends who promised to pitch in didn't really make a dent in the expense, so I was absolutely not going to do a third huge party at my house & at my expense in two years for the same woman.

However, I did want to feel out expectations, so I had the same neutral friend that called B last night also call A, just to see if she's happy about what we're doing for her (I already organized a small get-together of just her 3 best friends, her mom & her sister at a restaurant where we ALL split the bill & just bring a small gift) and she is really happy with that - it turned out that she was afraid that no one was going to do anything at all, but we had planned just to do something small, and she says she's OK with it. Maybe friend B misinterpreted her curiosity about whether we were going to do anything for her with expectations for another big shower ... either way, it seems like everyone's happy now, so I'm so glad there isn't any more of this weirdness

 

[ChinaCat]

Deleted, didn't see that it got resolved!

 

[zoebartlett]

I'm glad it all worked out, Vesper!

 

[atroop711]

OOPS...didn't read it was resolved before I posted..

Glad it worked out but I have to say the insults about 2nd showers that I read on all different forums make me roll my eyes (they do). PPL need to realize that this country has many different cultures and with that comes with many different traditions. In my culture every new child is celebrated, babies get their ears pierced, ect I don't expect ppl to agree with our traditions but I do expect adults to act like adults and stop the judging. BTW even Emily post says 2nd showers are acceptable http://www.emilypost.com/social-life/ce ... s-answered

 

[Cehrabehra]

I think inviting girlfriends for lunch to celebrate your pregnancy and having a baby shower is MOSTLY a matter of semantics - and whatever old fashioned connotations are attached to the whole "shower" thing, I think those are passe. I don't hold "Miss Manners" in high esteem. I find that sort of thinking outdated. There are too many ways to BE and associating such white glove rules to our society restrictive and irritating. Sure, there's a line, and we all have to find it for ourselves. I think putting the party in a different name doesn't change it at all. I don't see why everyone can't just live the way it suits them *without* all of this extra judgmentalness. Wait, am I rehashing the judgment thread? lol

Please take my opinions for what they're worth, which on a topic like this - it's seriously small potatoes so I am not very invested... just the principal of telling others how to live by antiquated rules bugs the snot out of me!

 

[TravelingGal]

I think inviting girlfriends for lunch to celebrate your pregnancy and having a baby shower is MOSTLY a matter of semantics - and whatever old fashioned connotations are attached to the whole "shower" thing, I think those are passe. I don't hold "Miss Manners" in high esteem. I find that sort of thinking outdated. There are too many ways to BE and associating such white glove rules to our society restrictive and irritating. Sure, there's a line, and we all have to find it for ourselves. I think putting the party in a different name doesn't change it at all. I don't see why everyone can't just live the way it suits them *without* all of this extra judgmentalness. Wait, am I rehashing the judgment thread? lol

Please take my opinions for what they're worth, which on a topic like this - it's seriously small potatoes so I am not very invested... just the principal of telling others how to live by antiquated rules bugs the snot out of me!

Cehra, it's not a matter of sematics. If you're talking about the mother to be inviting girls out for lunch and paying, that's obviously totally different. But even if was someone inviting the mother to be and a few of her friends, it's quite different. For one:

1. She doesn't give you a list of invitees
2. You don't have to bother with the hassle of invitations and RSVPs
3. You do not have to plan or execute any games
4. You don't have to host a party, or in the case of a restaurant shower, go there and figure out a set menu for the guests so they won't blow the budget
5. You don't have to worry about decorations, centerpieces, balloons, etc.
6. You don't have to worry about party favors


I supposed you could do a super basic shower with none of these things, but sadly, most mothers to be these days wouldn't really consider that a shower.

 

[yennyfire]

I agree with many others who've said that it's about the celebration rather than the gifts. However, I do always give a small gift to the baby (and the older sibling/s) whether there's a shower or not.

 

[Cehrabehra]

TG - well I like the cake and games (some of us actually do! lol) and the deocrations and all of that and I would beg that it can be a shower of love, of attention - and if friends really feel like they don't want to pay for any of it, fine. I see it as a showering of love and attention in honor of the new life. Just doing lunch doesn't feel any different than *any* other day out with the girls other than only the pregnant woman is paying for it.

I'd like to see gifts completely out of the equation on this - you'd think Miss Manners would too as gifts are supposed to be from the heart and if it's just not in your heart to bring a gift you shouldn't be obligated to.

 

[vespergirl]

TG - well I like the cake and games (some of us actually do! lol) and the deocrations and all of that and I would beg that it can be a shower of love, of attention - and if friends really feel like they don't want to pay for any of it, fine. I see it as a showering of love and attention in honor of the new life. Just doing lunch doesn't feel any different than *any* other day out with the girls other than only the pregnant woman is paying for it.

I'd like to see gifts completely out of the equation on this - you'd think Miss Manners would too as gifts are supposed to be from the heart and if it's just not in your heart to bring a gift you shouldn't be obligated to.

I just wanted to mention that whenever we do a second "sprinkle" by taking the friend to a restaurant, we all pay for the guest of honor's meal - she doesn't pay for anything, and we all bring a small gift as well for the baby.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I agree with many others who've said that it's about the celebration rather than the gifts. However, I do always give a small gift to the baby (and the older sibling/s) whether there's a shower or not.

Maybe they should call subsequent showers "Mother Showers" and shower them with things to make their lives a little easier - maybe get gifts for the siblings like you mentioned... there are only so many bottles and onesies you need, but I'm still all over the idea of giving a massage or babysitting coupons!

Setting yourself up to reap a ton of gifts IS greedy. Wanting to deny someone a bit of celebration because you don't want to buy a gift is a bit stingy. Somewhere between the two should be a good modern compromise.

 

[Cehrabehra]

TG - well I like the cake and games (some of us actually do! lol) and the deocrations and all of that and I would beg that it can be a shower of love, of attention - and if friends really feel like they don't want to pay for any of it, fine. I see it as a showering of love and attention in honor of the new life. Just doing lunch doesn't feel any different than *any* other day out with the girls other than only the pregnant woman is paying for it.

I'd like to see gifts completely out of the equation on this - you'd think Miss Manners would too as gifts are supposed to be from the heart and if it's just not in your heart to bring a gift you shouldn't be obligated to.

I just wanted to mention that whenever we do a second "sprinkle" by taking the friend to a restaurant, we all pay for the guest of honor's meal - she doesn't pay for anything, and we all bring a small gift as well for the baby.

A sprinkle - that's cute (though for some reason it is reminding me of urinating lol)... but I honestly do not see the difference between hosting a friend for lunch and a shower (you're still bringing gifts).

I am suspecting that the underlying distaste is because you all hate the fluff lol (you're still bringing gifts) Put it in a dress, it's still a cat.

 

[vbnet]

Thanks everyone for your opinions & advice. Friend B is super nice (the one who is having the big shower). She has two groups of friends - her American friends & her friends from her own country who are also expats living here. Among our American friend group, she is closest to me, and she tells me that she often feels that she makes social faux pas because of cultural differences, and she always beats herself up about it. That's why I feel so bad - I can tell that she's embarrassed, because now she thinks that I think she's gift-grabby. Meanwhile, I really do think she's a wonderful person & good friend, despite the shower issue.

Tyty, at first I thought like you did, that maybe her other friends were throwing her a shower no matter what she wanted (like my friends did when I told them not to do anything, but they talked me into at least a casual dinner with the girls when they wouldn't take no for an answer). However, when I saw her gift registry (for thousands of dollars worth of gifts - seriously!) then I realized that she really does have a hand in everything, and it really is over the top.

When she called yesterday to tell me about it, I told her that I didn't think that I would be able to make it because I wasn't sure that DH could watch the kids the day of her shower, so she isn't expecting me, but now I feel like maybe I should go ... I am going to call the other 2 girls from the "American friends" and see if they're going ... if not, I would be the only native English-speaker there, and they usually speak their own language when it's a majority expat group, so I wouldn't fit in anyway ...

I just placed a call to the one friend that isn't involved in this to get her opinion on what I should do too - I can't wait to talk to her ...

sorry, I find this part too funny and just had to say so, -- sorry if it stirs the pot after it's settled down

 

[vespergirl]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to post an update since I went to the shower yesterday. Out of 12 guests (over half of the invitees declined), only 1 person bought her something off her registry (a bath organizer - not expensive) and everyone else just got a little something like clothes for the baby and I also got a book for the older sister so she didn't feel left out.

It actually turned out to be a lot of fun, and I'm really glad I went.

It's funny, though, because I am a piano teacher, and today I taught a student who's mom is a mutual acquaintance of ours. She asked what I did yesterday, and I told her about the shower. She rolled her eyes & said that she couldn't believe she had another shower, she thought it was in poor taste since the babies are less than two years apart, and the same gender - now I don't feel as bad, because I guess one of our other friends felt the same way. If it counts for anything, this friend is Korean, so maybe in that culture they don't do second showers either ...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Oh Vesper - the sparkle in your rings must just dance across those keys!!!