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OreoRosies86

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For all the talk about how Trump was elected out of concern for future generations, do you believe young people now have it better than you did? Do they have an equal shot at an affordable home? A college education? Do you feel any responsibility at all for the hardships young people today have faced (I'm not saying yours didn't face any)? Does telling them to suck it up not also smack of entitlement? Was the Obama administration not also subjected to 8 years of "Not my president"?

If you went to college for $4,000 a year, do you feel right about telling today's youth to sign up for military service to get their education?

Fair is fair, right?

On a lighter note, I'm watching Kubo and the Two Strings. If you haven't seen it yet, rent it. It's fantastic!!!
 

Matata

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Elliott86, I'm trying to understand what comes across as bitterness in some of your posts. Each generation makes some things better and some things worse and all have been given labels that are not particularly nice. We boomers were shaped by what came before, just as your generation is shaped by the boomers, and as yours will shape what comes after. I've read many articles about how heinous the boomers are and how we should bear total responsibility for the challenges your generation faces. I've read an equal number that effectively rebuts that accusation.

I can't speak for an entire generation. I feel empathy for your generation but no guilt. I was born into poverty. My parents were uneducated. I swam upstream against a strong tide of odds to achieve financial security. I had to kick, claw, and scream each step of the way. No one paid my way. I started working at 16 and supported myself through high school and college working full time and taking classes when I could. I couldn't start my bachelor's degree until I turned 30, never took a loan or applied for a grant. Paid it all by working full time in low wage jobs. It took me 6 yrs to get a BA. I wasn't willing to do that for my master's so I worked full time and did a full time master's program at night. Got that MA in 2 yrs at the age of 41 and it nearly killed me.

There were more than a few years when I resented not being born into a middle class family. I feared my abusive alcoholic father and was confused my mother's inability to extricate the two of us from an ugly situation. My innocence was lost at the age of 5 and that's when I also learned that you can't trust others to keep you safe and give you all things you need. It was also at that age that I knew I wouldn't emulate the life my parents had.

If it would make you feel better for the collective voices of an entire generation to say "we're guilty as charged" so be it. That admission changes neither the past nor the the future. That admission won't change anything but succeeding generations have a chance -- even if it's swimming upstream against a strong tide of odds -- to make the changes you feel the boomers failed to achieve.
 

Bayek

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Elliot86|1478997971|4097632 said:
For all the talk about how Trump was elected out of concern for future generations, do you believe young people now have it better than you did? Do they have an equal shot at an affordable home? A college education? Do you feel any responsibility at all for the hardships young people today have faced (I'm not saying yours didn't face any)? Does telling them to suck it up not also smack of entitlement? Was the Obama administration not also subjected to 8 years of "Not my president"?

If you went to college for $4,000 a year, do you feel right about telling today's youth to sign up for military service to get their education?

Fair is fair, right?

On a lighter note, I'm watching Kubo and the Two Strings. If you haven't seen it yet, rent it. It's fantastic!!!
I'll bite on this one, as an early baby boomer (1953).

Whoever said Trump was elected out of concern for future generations - I must have missed that here - is misguided. Just his thoughts on the environment and global warming will leave future generations in jeopardy..

I do not believe young people have it better than I did, but we did have that nasty old Viet Nam thing going on, then we got Reagan (raise taxes on the middle class Reagan).. American's formerly valued teachers, a vacation was to Nanny's..so I think young people have the benefit of travel that was very expensive to me as a young boomer.

An equal shot at a home? no.. not really, but millenials seem to be hesitant to buy homes, for various reasons I suppose.

I had it easier going to college in 1970, I was able to use work/study my college loan was only much lower comparatively to what young people have to take out today.

Both my kids went to college in the state of Texas for about 22,000K per year, 4K in 1970 equates 24,000 today so I would say they got a better deal, they didn't have to take loans.. but Texas is one of if not the cheapest state to go to college in.

I feel some responsibility for the hardships of millenials today, but not tons because I never vote for any politician who was in favor of supply side (free market) econ. Once the stockholder become more important than the employee, once continued growth became mantra by my generation we lost our soul.. as growth was the word, cutting benefits was the game.. no more pensions, no job security, (profit and growth, stockholder returns, huge CEO salaries, new and intriguing ways to rip off people). I never supported these things but I certainly did profit from.

Saying to young people suck it up is common, if you read my parents generation told boomers to suck it up, grow up, we were selfish, self centered etc. I just consider that a part of old age.. people forget what it was like to be young.

I absolutely do not feel a person should have to sign up for the military to get an education, but for some it may be a way out of poverty, when I was a kid it was considered less to join the military, the kids who weren't smart enough to go to college joined the military and went to Viet Nam (or Korea).. but the smart kids went to college.. today that has all changed and many adults my age worship the military.

LIfe is not fair, the rich get richer and the middle class continues to slip and I don't see that changing.

I wont take up any more of your time but I did have a discussion like this with my 29 year old son... his salary while good, in equivalent dollars is 34K a year less than his Dad's in 74 starting as a programmer at IBM. Now part of that is there are more programmers around! also offshoring... it all sucks.
 

OreoRosies86

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Matata it isn't so much that I'm looking for an admission of guilt, and this isn't a PS exclusive question. My days have been filled with similar conversations with family. I'm comparing answers. I'm not that bitter either, but my internet tone is what it is.
 

kenny

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All empires peak and decline.
America peaked a generation, or two, ago.
Many could buy a house and put their kids through college working a blue-collar job.

That cushy ship has sailed.
No president can fix that.

Now it's China's turn.
 

Matata

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Apologies for misinterpreting your tone Elliott. I'll do better henceforth.
 

telephone89

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I don't think younger generations have it easier.

Houses are outrageously expensive in almost all cities. So unless you want to live in the far burbs and have a 1-2 hr commute each way, you're SOL.
Education is expensive (in the US). Student loan debt was almost unheard of for baby boomers. Now, its a reality for almost all americans, and a lot of Canadians even.
Jobs - good paying low education jobs barely exist anymore. The last few were oil related - which has bottomed out. In the US, almost no where pays a living wage for 'minimum' wage jobs. I remember the days where you could support your family as a waitress. You can't do that now. You absolutely cannot.

However, I think the overall living situation and life is better now. There aren't imminent wars. A few days ago I would have said there isn't crippling racism or sexism - now not so sure. If you are struggling, there are foodbanks, food stamps, affordable options for other things.

I don't think anyone would say they are responsible though. You can't blame a generation for moving to cities, thus making houses more expensive.
 

OreoRosies86

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Matata|1479003591|4097676 said:
Apologies for misinterpreting your tone Elliott. I'll do better henceforth.
I don't think you misinterpreted my tone really, I just maybe don't feel as bitter in real life as I might come across? :read:
 

Dancing Fire

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Matata|1479001217|4097662 said:
I can't speak for an entire generation. I feel empathy for your generation but no guilt. I was born into poverty. My parents were uneducated. I swam upstream against a strong tide of odds to achieve financial security. I had to kick, claw, and scream each step of the way. No one paid my way. I started working at 16 and supported myself through high school and college working full time and taking classes when I could. I couldn't start my bachelor's degree until I turned 30, never took a loan or applied for a grant. Paid it all by working full time in low wage jobs. It took me 6 yrs to get a BA. I wasn't willing to do that for my master's so I worked full time and did a full time master's program at night. Got that MA in 2 yrs at the age of 41 and it nearly killed me.
Good for you Mat!... :appl: if today's student followed your path then this country would be much better off.
 

missy

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Interesting read.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-baby-boomers-gen-x-millennials-should-learn-each-jim-cavale

What Baby Boomers, Gen X and Millennials Should Learn About Each Other... NOW
Mar 24, 2016

I'm barely a Millennial (I was born in 1982), who was brought up by a Baby Boomer father (he was born in 1949), dedicated to working his butt off for one company for his entire life (Carrier Corporation), starting on the factory floor and working his way up to a stable, mid-level management position.

However, after 25 years of dedication, we all know what happened to Carrier and many of the other large scale, public manufacturing companies here in the United States - downsizing. We don't need to talk about where those jobs have gone, though, as that is a whole 'nother rant.

As many apparent disasters in life, this situation was a blessing in disguise. We'll get to that in a second.

My grandpa (father's father), comes from what is known as the Silent Generation (he was born in 1927). His example for my father was that you went out and got a job with a public company that could provide you with security and, with a personal display of the proper blend of loyalty and work ethic, that company will get you to the promised land - A.K.A. retirement in your 50's.

For my grandpa, that company was Chrysler.

You know these folks all too well... They're our hard-working grandparents who tell us stories of how they went out and got their "gold watch," working for that one company that they grew to love.

So as a 15-year-old boy who's dad had to start over after 20 years of hard work for one company, I watched a paradigm shift occur in his life. This experience really knocked home what has become a very unique perspective of past generations, with the present one that I am a part of, to create a blended perspective we should all maintain when it comes to our relationships with family, friends and especially in business.

Getting laid off, forced my father to get creative and build his own sales territory for an international shipping company (Expeditor's International). Since our hometown of Syracuse, in Upstate New York, didn't have an Expeditor's footprint, my dad had to be entrepreneurial enough to go out and create a territory of his own. It was almost like he was franchising a new sales territory for Expeditor's, who had 0% of the multitude of manufacturers in our area, using their large-scale international shipping services.

Not only did my father make more money, but he learned how to leverage technologies, using this thing that Al Gore had just invented, known as The Internet, and a mobile user-friendly IBM laptop computer, to be able to work on his own terms from the guest room in our East Syracuse, New York home.



The flexibility made it so that I was able to spend more time with my father throughout my high school years. I just wish it happened earlier in my childhood, as this transition all took place just a few years before I left for college baseball in Alabama - and yes, I'm still here!

I became very interested in this topic, after hearing Gustavo Grodinsky speak to my Vistage group here in Birmingham, back in August at the Vestavia Country Club. I’m the only Generation Y guy in my group of older, more experienced business owners. I gain a wealth of knowledge in being around these guys.

In reading William Strauss' masterpiece, The Fourth Turning, a book I highly recommend you read, Strauss and his co-author Neil Howe, left me with some serious motivation as a member of Generation Y.

Their case for the fact that there have been four types of generations that have repeated themselves throughout history, suggests that Generation Y (A.K.A. Millennials) is actually responsible for initiating the next cycle of four. That means we must set the stage for the next century. And, if you know anything about how fast things move these days because of technology, the next 100 years may have more significant developments for mankind, than all of the previous centuries combined.

This will either be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on whether or not we can conquer some of the world's most pressing issues that are staring us right in the face. If you're interested in a plan of how my generation will conquer those issues, sink yourself into Peter Diamandis' book Abundance.

He'll make you feel a lot better about my generation and the future of this world, because of the exponential effect of the microchip since Fairchild Semiconductor invented it now more than 50 years ago.



Strauss and Howe paint a picture of last Hero Generation, which includes those humans born between 1901-1925. Once again, the Hero Generation-type is the initiator of this four generation cycle that continues to repeat itself. Because of the time at war that this generation served, it garnered the name of the G.I. Generation. Guess when the Fairchild folks, who invented the microchip tech that is changing our world exponentially, were actually born... You guessed it, The G.I. Generation.

G.I. also includes people like Bill Hewlitt and Dave Packard, or Walt Disney and John Wayne, who were just a few of the people that established a new world of business and entertainment for America. It's also a time where seven U.S. Presidents were born into society. Guys like JFK and Ronald Reagan earned their membership to the Hero Generation!

Following a Hero Generation-type, is what is known as an Artist Generation, which is where my grandfather that I referred to above, was born (and many of your grandparents too). The 20th century version of the Artist Generation, is known as the Silent or Traditionalist Generation. Whether it's the one company loyalty-style that came with the coveted gold watch or the "seen and not heard" disciplinary-style that Silent Generation parents had with their Baby Boomer children, it surely created a unique situation that came after them.

How many presidents came out of The Silent Generation? Zero.

The Baby Boomers are what is known as a Prophet Generation, which is the third in this cycle of four generation types that I am explaining in this essay. As children of their hard-working Silent Generation parents, Baby Boomers wanted more. Eighty hour work weeks, commission pay structures, and other types of professional leverage, allowed Baby Boomers to make more money than their Silent Generation parents, as well as treating their Generation X kids with more respect and provision than they ever experienced as kids themselves.

But the Generation X folks knew that there had to be a better way. They wanted to find what is now so warmly referred to as a "work-life" balance, and in addition to being as nice as their Baby Boomer parents were to them, they actually wanted to able to spend time with their kids, not just money on them. Generation X is what is called a Nomad Generation-type.

Then comes my generation - Generation Y, or as so many like to call us, The Millennials. We are known as entitled, immature young adults, who live in our parents' basement (ruining their retirement plans) and are always engaged in technology. That's just the beginning of the stereotypes that come with Generation Y, but don't forget, according to Strauss and Howe, we are the next Hero Generation-type!

Please understand, I am the first to get mad about these stereotypes above and call my generation out over them! As my employees, my friends and young family members... I am known as too serious at times, and more mature than my age. That's only because I am a blend. A blend of my grandpa, my father and my generation. So I have the blue-collar mentality that my grandpa taught me, combined with the figure-it-out and get-er-done example that my father set for me, mixed in with the benefits of being a Millennial who can leverage tech to be more efficient than either of them could have ever hoped.

And I call out my Generation Y friends to do the same!

So what good is in Generation Y, for us to think we could be heroes for the future? Here are some things to embrace about Generation Y - we don't work for money, but instead we work for a purpose that is embedded in a company culture where direct reports actually like their bosses. We know technology better than any of the generations before us, and are willing to leverage it at all times a day, to help the brand we are working for. We want flexibility, not a 9 to 5. So if we can get that flexibility then we'll also return the favor; we'll work for you at 10pm sometimes, if that's when an email needs to be sent or a presentation needs to be tweaked.

Can Generation Y be the next Hero Generation? You better hope so. The future depends on it. Once again, read Diamandis' Abundance.

Alright, so what does all this mean in regard to the gap between the Baby Boomers and Generation Y?

It seems to me, being around so many of the elder statesmen in the business-world, that there is a bad taste in the mouths of Baby Boomer and early Generation X entrepreneurs, regarding the Generation Y pool of talent they will have to integrate into their organizations, should they make it successfully into the 21st Century. Instead of adapting and catering to the communication styles, culture aspirations and overall purpose-driven ventures that Generation Y people desire to be a part of, I'm seeing low adaptation and thus, an extreme amount of turnover.

The average Generation Y employee doesn't last three years. That's a big difference from the Silent Generation that worked for one company their whole lives, right? My assessment is that this is because Baby Boomer bosses are not taking the time to learn about how to best motivate and communicate with their Millennial direct reports.

Well, I hate to tell ya, but the good ole' days are gone. Generation Y is here. Yes, we need more blue-collar perspective and in many cases, more focus and work ethic. However, we are the future and if taught, can not only adopt the things that past generations did so much better than we do, but we can also bring in game-changing aspects of efficient technology and motivating culture, that can take any brand in the right direction for the 21st Century.

...snip.... I have mentors who are older and wiser than me, helping me make the best decisions possible in all facets of my life.

So don't think I am saying Generation Y is the perfect fit. We NEED that perspective. But we also have a technological capacity that allows us to accomplish much more individually, than groups of 10 or more did collectively before us. If we study, respond and act with tact, the sky is the limit.

As with everything else, diversity always trumps close-minded pride in your own kind. Be diverse, work together and create a culture where not only all generations can work together, but they actually take the good from each and combine it to create a mix that is truly unique and unattainable without that diversity.

If I remember right, that's how America began.
 

Queenie60

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Matata|1479001217|4097662 said:
Elliott86, I'm trying to understand what comes across as bitterness in some of your posts. Each generation makes some things better and some things worse and all have been given labels that are not particularly nice. We boomers were shaped by what came before, just as your generation is shaped by the boomers, and as yours will shape what comes after. I've read many articles about how heinous the boomers are and how we should bear total responsibility for the challenges your generation faces. I've read an equal number that effectively rebuts that accusation.

I can't speak for an entire generation. I feel empathy for your generation but no guilt. I was born into poverty. My parents were uneducated. I swam upstream against a strong tide of odds to achieve financial security. I had to kick, claw, and scream each step of the way. No one paid my way. I started working at 16 and supported myself through high school and college working full time and taking classes when I could. I couldn't start my bachelor's degree until I turned 30, never took a loan or applied for a grant. Paid it all by working full time in low wage jobs. It took me 6 yrs to get a BA. I wasn't willing to do that for my master's so I worked full time and did a full time master's program at night. Got that MA in 2 yrs at the age of 41 and it nearly killed me.

There were more than a few years when I resented not being born into a middle class family. I feared my abusive alcoholic father and was confused my mother's inability to extricate the two of us from an ugly situation. My innocence was lost at the age of 5 and that's when I also learned that you can't trust others to keep you safe and give you all things you need. It was also at that age that I knew I wouldn't emulate the life my parents had.

If it would make you feel better for the collective voices of an entire generation to say "we're guilty as charged" so be it. That admission changes neither the past nor the the future. That admission won't change anything but succeeding generations have a chance -- even if it's swimming upstream against a strong tide of odds -- to make the changes you feel the boomers failed to achieve.
Same with me Matata - Your childhood and challenges are quite similar to mine. And, my husband and I have worked very hard during our lifetime so that we can make it easier for our children. Our children will leave college with no debt, they will not face the struggles we (especially myself) faced - and yes, they will be able to purchase a home in the Bay Area with our help. I will not apologize or feel one bit bad for this. We worked our A$$$es off to afford and provide for them. Personally, I feel that many (not all) young people expect instantaneous gratification, what they need to do is roll up their sleeves and get to work. I don't want to offend anyone as I can't speak for all, every situation is different. However, I believe that there is so much opportunity out there; "leave no stone unturned" and you will find a way!
 

cmd2014

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I think that life has changed from the boomers generation to mine (Gen X). My parents obtained living-wage jobs with high school educations, were able to buy a house and raise a family on one salary (mom quit work when my sister and I were born), retire with a full pension at age 51 (because that's what happens when you are able to start working at a pensioned job in your early 20's), and my father, who would have been considered middle to upper management for the bulk of his career never came home later than 5:30pm and unless he was on a business trip, never worked weekends. He also had a full time secretary who typed his letters, made his appointments, bought gifts when needed, screened his calls, and organized every aspect of his work life in the same way that my mother did for him at home. They have a LOT of disposable income now in retirement between the pension, the money they earned on investments that they could afford to make, despite living on a single salary, and the money that they earned through inflation on their home.

Contrast that to my experience: I graduated with $70,000 in student loans because to get the same type of 'good job' that my dad had, I had to get not only a university degree, but graduate level education (a Bachelor's degree does not get you a job most places anymore). I did this through a combination of working multiple part-time minimum wage jobs to cobble together enough hours to be able to pay living expenses while taking out loans for my tuition and books. My starting salary was less than what my father would have been making in his 20's (in equivalent dollars), and until I became self-employed, I would never have come close to what he was making towards the mid-point of his career. This despite being asked to work without any admin support but at the same time to be more productive. I typically work 10-11 hour days and often end up working weekends. I have no pension (and didn't have one in my company job either - these apparently are now optional perks to offer employees, and non-government jobs typically don't offer them). Instead I got a noncontributory plan that would not offer any kind of liveable salary come retirement. Because I was in my 30's before I was 'qualified' to get work, I will likely not retire until...well...I'm not sure exactly. Housing prices are now a disproportionately higher percentage of people's income (my parents were able to pay their home off in 5 years - that's how much of a difference there was between yearly salary and housing prices then to now). So I will not be able to pay my house off early, and on top of that I am completely self-funding my retirement, and it took me 15 years to pay off my student loans. So, it's tough to look at my life vs. my parents' lives and feel like things are better.

I'm not sure millennials have it any better either. The difference though is the willingness of mom and dad to help out. I think most Gen X's were from families where you were expected to make your way in the world on your own by the time you were 18 or shortly thereafter.

I don't blame Boomers though. I think the world changed. I think the global economy where we are competing against countries that pay $1/day/employee in labor costs made businesses need to go lean in order to be able to compete - in terms of benefits, numbers of employees, and admin staff. Technology also eliminated a lot of jobs (especially manufacturing jobs and admin support).
 

Elizabeth35

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Elliot86|1478997971|4097632 said:
For all the talk about how Trump was elected out of concern for future generations, do you believe young people now have it better than you did? Do they have an equal shot at an affordable home? A college education? Do you feel any responsibility at all for the hardships young people today have faced (I'm not saying yours didn't face any)? Does telling them to suck it up not also smack of entitlement? Was the Obama administration not also subjected to 8 years of "Not my president"?

If you went to college for $4,000 a year, do you feel right about telling today's youth to sign up for military service to get their education?

Fair is fair, right?

On a lighter note, I'm watching Kubo and the Two Strings. If you haven't seen it yet, rent it. It's fantastic!!!

I am a boomer, born in 1957. I'm not sure I understand your question regarding Trump being elected out of concern for future generations. I have not heard that justification and I have followed the election fairly closely.
I will refrain from commenting about Mr. Trump or why he was elected as it seems irrelevant to the rest of your questions.

Do young people have it easier now than I did--extremely variable depending upon the person. I have seen disadvantaged people succeed in each generation and I have seen privileged people act like spoiled children in both generations.
I think four year universities are relatively more expensive now. If your family cannot afford that and you do not earn scholarships, then perhaps start at community college and live at home if your parents are amenable. Obviously--work at least part-time. Military has always been an option.
Overall there are fewer middle class jobs, housing prices are higher (but interest rates are much lower) and education is ridiculously expensive.

Do I feel personal responsibility for your hardships? Why would I--when My generation has suffered as much as yours by our economy evolving to a global economy with many skilled labor and technical jobs being outsourced. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind that question. EVERYONE has been impacted by this and it is not isolated to younger people.

I think where you will get push back (or eye-rolling) from members of my generation is that because we have more life experience, we have hopefully learned that life goes to those who adapt and change.
Be it a steel worker who lost his high-paying job and had to retrain for a lower paying position, or a 20 year old that decides on community college instead of four year.
I have children in their late twenties. Life is different for them. We ALL have suffered during the economic downturn of the mid 2000's. I know many people my age who lost homes, jobs, and watched their savings decimated. This may have impacted their ability to pay for your college.

Please be aware that while I am sympathetic to the fact that the job situation is not what it used to be---most people in my generation know that life isn't always fair. I guarantee my parents generation said the same thing to my generation. They lived with Hitler--you are dealing with terrorism. Every generation has challenges and they are constantly changing. My hope is that your generation will show strength, adaptability and resilience. It Is the only thing that will get you through--just as it has for previous generations.
And be involved in issues--vote, especially locally. Your Senate and congressional vote may have more impact on you than your presidential vote.
 
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