attention - denverappraiser

[lajones]

I am looking into buying a G VS2 2.23 carat cushion cut diamond from South Africa that is certified by IDL (Independent Diamond Grading Laboratory). Do you know anything about this company? Is it reputable and should I trust the grading? They have offered to get it GIA certified but the time involved with this would mean they won''t be able to make the setting in time, obviously would prefer to get it all done at once. Should I stick with the IDL certification? I have a home in Breckenridge and will be there back in a couple weeks so could bring the diamond into you to grade but obviously if the IDL is way off I won''t be back in S. Africa for a long time to return it. What should I do?

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Lajones- I hope you don;t mind me adding my opinion- I know you asked for Neil.
I would avoid this stone entirely.
For someone who''s buying a 2ct K/I1, the GIA report makes less of a difference- but for a lofty grade such as G/VS2, in a 2.33carat, there''s simply too much room for error- and the error is on YOUR bill!

Unknown labs- such as IDL- have very little to offer consumers in the way of a report which is accepted by dealers, and other knowledgeable diamond people.

 

[lajones]

Thanks for your reply David. I''m a bit confused though, if they get it GIA certified and it still comes back as a G VS2, 2.23 is that still not worth purchasing? Even if I return to the US and buy a GIA certified diamond there won''t it be the same?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Unless there''s something I''m missing here- the seller knows they''ll never get the price of a G/VS2 without the GIA report- unless they find an uninformed buyer- which is where you might come in.....


Is the price much lower than similar stones from other online sellers?

 

[lajones]

This diamond is from a family run shop in Cape Town and it is comparable to many diamonds I have looked at. Here are the spec''s

2.234 carat cushion cut
G, VS2
Depth 69.8%
Table 57.9%
girdle 5%
culet 0.1%
Pavilion 40.3 degrees
Crown 35.6 degrees
The total price is $24,000 USD

I wasn''t sure what an IDL certification was and insisted that they get it GIA certified. If they get this diamond GIA certified (as a G, VS2), is it okay to buy or should I wait unti I return to Denver?

 

[oldmancoyote]

Apart from the issue with the grading lab (and the fact that it could throw up a nice surprise such as this is really an I-SI2), the proportions seem quite odd. Nearly 70% depth and 5% girdle on a round mean the stone won''t face as large as a "good" 2.23, and it most likely will have a dark centre and limited sparkle. For $24k you should be able to find a lot better - if perhaps a grade or two lower in colour.

As another aside - why do you want to buy a diamond in South Africa, which is notoriously one of the worst places where to buy retail diamonds, when you can buy in the US which is probably the best, and certainly the most transparent retail market?

 

[denverappraiser]

I wouldn’t buy a 2.23/G/VS2 without GIA paperwork so yes, if you’ve seen it and love it and the remaining issue is documenting the grading I would have them send it to GIA. I would view the IDL document as no more or less than a statement by the dealer themselves. That doesn’t make it wrong but if you’re concerned about relying on the dealer, and you should be, I wouldn't get any comfort from this document.


When a dealer adds time pressure on a sale, it’s almost always for reasons that aren’t in your best interest and this begs several questions. I take it you live in the US and are just visiting SA for a short time, correct? If so, why are you a buying there instead from a US dealer? Have they offered to ship it to you in the US after you get here and after they’ve done their work with GIA? FedEx offers a pretty nice service and they’ve surely used it before. They may even be able to send it to GIA and, based on the results, have GIA return it directly to you (or to me). Ask them. The same question applies to having the ring made. Why are you using a South African jeweler rather than one here in the US? To be sure there are some fine craftsmen there but as with the above, time pressure is usually a bad idea and there’s some excellent craftsmen here as well and there's a lot to be said for working with a designer who is a bit closer to home.

GIA-Carlsbad is quoting 7 days or less turnaround by the way. I think NY is even faster.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Rockdiamond]

OMC- spot on- very strange dimensions for an RBC- but it''s a cushion...


Neil- we''re really on the same page...except for the fact that when a dealer is offering such a stone with a sub standard report, it''s a waste of time thinknig that the consumer can "recover" the grade by sending it to GIA.
IN 99.99999% of these cases, the seller knows they''re selling an overgraded diamond.
If it really was a G/VS2 the seller would have already sent it to GIA.

 

[lajones]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I was originally looking in Denver but thought since I was going on holiday to S. Africa I might get some deals. I was very wrong. I will definitely turn down the diamond and look when I arrive in Denver in a few weeks time.

DenverAppraiser (or anyone else for that matter), can you reccommend any diamond dealer in the area that I can ask to source a diamond for me and hopefully someone that is very good at making settings as well? Are you allowed to make suggestions on these posts????

Thanks again everyone, you have been a huge help, I am extremely happy that I didn''t go through with that purchase.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 5/5/2009 5:12:45 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
OMC- spot on- very strange dimensions for an RBC- but it''s a cushion...


Neil- we''re really on the same page...except for the fact that when a dealer is offering such a stone with a sub standard report, it''s a waste of time thinknig that the consumer can ''recover'' the grade by sending it to GIA.
IN 99.99999% of these cases, the seller knows they''re selling an overgraded diamond.
If it really was a G/VS2 the seller would have already sent it to GIA.

Note to self. Verify brain is attached to eyes before posting. Sorry.

 

[denverappraiser]

I think you made a good decision.

I count it as a serious conflict of interest for an appraiser to be recommending specific jewelers but we’ve got dozens of jewelers in town who would love the opportunity to earn your business. There are consumers here on PS who are also in the Denver area who may be able to give you a specific referral but you may want to start a new thread with a more specific title asking for recommendations of stores in Denver. They may not be reading this thread.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver