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Atrocities: 1939 and 2017

AGBF

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"WASHINGTON — President Trump’s executive order on immigration quickly reverberated through the United States and across the globe on Saturday, slamming the border shut for an Iranian scientist headed to a lab in Boston, an Iraqi who had worked for a decade as an interpreter for the United States Army, and a Syrian refugee family headed to a new life in Ohio, among countless others.

Around the nation, security officers at major international gateways had new rules to follow, though the application of the order appeared uneven. Humanitarian organizations scrambled to cancel long-planned programs, delivering the bad news to families who were about to travel. Refugees who were on flights when the order was signed were detained at airports.

'We’ve gotten reports of people being detained all over the country,' said Becca Heller, the director of the International Refugee Assistance Project. 'They’re literally pouring in by the minute.'

There were numerous reports of students attending American universities who were blocked from returning to the United States from visits abroad. One student said in a Twitter post that he would be unable to study at Yale. Another who attends the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was refused permission to board a plane. A Sudanese student at Stanford University was blocked for hours from returning to California.

Human rights groups reported that legal permanent residents of the United States who hold green cards were being stopped in foreign airports as they sought to return from funerals, vacations or study abroad.

The president’s order, enacted with the stroke of a pen at 4:42 on Friday afternoon, suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, barred Syrian refugees indefinitely, and blocked entry into the United States for 90 days for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

The Department of Homeland Security said that the executive order also barred green card holders from those countries from re-entering the United States. In a briefing for reporters on Saturday, White House officials said that green card holders from the seven affected countries who are outside the United States would need a case-by-case waiver to return to the United States.
Document: Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus in Kennedy Airport Detention

Legal residents who have a green card and are currently in the United States should meet with a consular officer before leaving the country, a White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told reporters. Officials did not clarify the criteria that would qualify someone for a waiver from the president’s executive order, which says only that one can be granted when it is 'in the national interest.'

But the week-old administration appeared to be implementing the order chaotically, with agencies and officials around the globe interpreting it in different ways.

The Stanford student, a legal permanent resident of the United States with a green card, was held at Kennedy International Airport in New York for about eight hours but was eventually allowed to fly to California, said Lisa Lapin, a Stanford spokeswoman. Others who were detained appeared to be still in custody or sent back to their home countries.

White House aides claimed on Saturday that there had been talks with officials at the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security over the past several weeks about carrying out the order. 'Everyone who needed to know was informed,' one aide said.

But that assertion was denied by multiple officials with knowledge of the interactions, including two officials at the State Department. Two of the officials said leaders of Customs and Border Protection and Citizenship and Immigration Services — the two agencies most directly affected by the order — and other agencies were on a telephone briefing on the new policy even as Mr. Trump signed it on Friday.

At least one case prompted a legal challenge as lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees held at Kennedy Airport filed a motion early Saturday seeking to have their clients released. They also filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and other immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

[i]Shortly after noon on Saturday, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, the interpreter who worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq, was released. After nearly 19 hours of detention, Mr. Darweesh began to cry as he spoke to reporters, putting his hands behind his back and miming handcuffs.


'What I do for this country? They put the cuffs on,' Mr. Darweesh said. 'You know how many soldiers I touch by this hand?
'[/i]

The other man the lawyers are representing, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, remained in custody as his legal advocates sought his release."

Sudan, Somalia and Syria are among the countries whose residents have been banned from entering the United States. Those countries are among the countries where people have suffered the most in recent years, which is saying a lot. And as ironic as it is to ban refugees from the countries where the worst atrocities are now occurring, Trup did it on Holocaust remembrance Day, saying that he could easily forget the suffering of the Jewish people in the Holocaust and, that like Roosevelt, he would have denied Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany entry here in 1939.

Link...http://www.timesofisrael.com/haunting-twitter-feed-remembers-jewish-refugees-turned-away-by-us/

AGBF
 

iLander

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The Republicans will pay for Crazy Trump and all his lunacy for yeeeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss to come. At least I hope so.

These stories are just horrifying. But so is the whole week of Crazy Trump.
 

AGBF

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iLander|1485662534|4121365 said:
The Republicans will pay for Crazy Trump and all his lunacy for yeeeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss to come. At least I hope so.

FDR never paid for sending those Jews to their deaths. No one thinks of that as his legacy. I certainly do not. Yet he did it. He was no champion of the Jews.
 

missy

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AGBF|1485664587|4121378 said:
iLander|1485662534|4121365 said:
The Republicans will pay for Crazy Trump and all his lunacy for yeeeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss to come. At least I hope so.

FDR never paid for sending those Jews to their deaths. No one thinks of that as his legacy. I certainly do not. Yet he did it. He was no champion of the Jews.

Yes Deb. That is sadly true. And it is happening again. I don't want to believe it but it is. I feel like we are trapped in a nightmare world. I keep thinking I have to wake up this cannot be happening in 2017. Yet it is. History repeating itself.

and iLander, it is not just the Republicans that are paying for Trump and what he is doing. Don't you see that? We are all and will all be paying the (theoretical and actual) price. And it is too high.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

Obama did something similar. He put a ban on all Iraq residents for six months in 2011. Where was the outrage then?

Annette.
 

Sungura

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smitcompton|1485705664|4121471 said:
Hi,

Obama did something similar. He put a ban on all Iraq residents for six months in 2011. Where was the outrage then?

Annette.


I think that in the case of FDR and Obama the people were not really aware. I remember my "social justice warrior" mother telling me that citizens really didn't know what atrocities were going on in Nazi Germany until much later. As for Obama I understand that they stopped processing refugees requests but did not prevent people with visas from entering. The Obama administration was not transparent about it. If people knew they would have protested

I think that now so many are more aware and more engaged than even 2 years ago.
 

ruby59

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Sungura|1485711030|4121503 said:
smitcompton|1485705664|4121471 said:
Hi,

Obama did something similar. He put a ban on all Iraq residents for six months in 2011. Where was the outrage then?

Annette.


I think that in the case of FDR and Obama the people were not really aware. I remember my "social justice warrior" mother telling me that citizens really didn't know what atrocities were going on in Nazi Germany until much later. As for Obama I understand that they stopped processing refugees requests but did not prevent people with visas from entering. The Obama administration was not transparent about it. If people knew they would have protested

I think that now so many are more aware and more engaged than even 2 years ago.


Well at least you are not saying that what Trump is doing is not the same as what Obama did, and I thank you for that.
 

msop04

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It seems previous administrations have been doing this too...


2011 - Obama banned refugees from Iraq for 6 months because of the fear of terrorists infiltrating the refugee population.

1993 - Clinton banned Haitian refugees for fear of a mass influx of Haitians (after he'd campaigned with the promise of reversing the previous administration's trend and give Haitian refugees asylum).

1979 - Carter banned Iranian visas for any Shiite Muslims during the Iranian hostage crisis.
 

AGBF

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Here is an excerpt from:

"Reince Priebus Defends Holocaust Statement That Failed to Mention Jews" (from "The New York Times").

"Amid protests and legal challenges over President Trump’s immigration order, the White House also found itself on the defensive this weekend about a normally routine statement about International Holocaust Remembrance Day that drew criticism and scorn.

The statement released on Friday failed to mention Jews or anti-Semitism, something that past presidential statements had done without fail.

Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, defended the language in a Sunday interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” telling the host, Chuck Todd, 'I don’t regret the words.'

Mr. Priebus continued, 'I mean, everyone’s suffering in the Holocaust including obviously, all of the Jewish people affected and the miserable genocide that occurred — it’s something that we consider to be extraordinarily sad.'

He added: 'If we could wipe it off of the history books, we would. But we can’t.'

The original statement, released on Friday, was dedicated to the 'victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust,' but did not specifically mention the approximately six million Jews who were exterminated by the German regime."

Does anyone want to continue to defend Trump, Priebus, and Breibart? If so, I'll teach you how to sing "Faccetta Nera" and "Giovinezza".

AGBF
 

Karl_K

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AGBF|1485749255|4121711 said:
The original statement, released on Friday, was dedicated to the 'victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust,' but did not specifically mention the approximately six million Jews who were exterminated by the German regime."
Growing I had a friend whose grandparents were killed in a German concentration camp as part of the Holocaust right beside Jews.
They were not Jewish.
His parents felt that their parents were forgotten when the Holocaust was discussed.
They would like the wording.

Here is a listing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

ugh just thinking of the Holocaust makes me sick........
 

Tekate

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smitcompton|1485705664|4121471 said:
Hi,

Obama did something similar. He put a ban on all Iraq residents for six months in 2011. Where was the outrage then?

Annette.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/

Obama's call was differerent, and he did not ban applications for a visa. What he did do was recheck all Iranians here already (due to 2 people who got in here that shouldn't have). Obama did not blanket say he was going to ban numerous countries and it was based on imperfect vetting.

Iran has threatened to stop Americans from entering their country, THAT is going to be very serious. very.
 

missy

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AGBF|1485749255|4121711 said:
Here is an excerpt from:

"Reince Priebus Defends Holocaust Statement That Failed to Mention Jews" (from "The New York Times").

"Amid protests and legal challenges over President Trump’s immigration order, the White House also found itself on the defensive this weekend about a normally routine statement about International Holocaust Remembrance Day that drew criticism and scorn.

The statement released on Friday failed to mention Jews or anti-Semitism, something that past presidential statements had done without fail.

Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, defended the language in a Sunday interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” telling the host, Chuck Todd, 'I don’t regret the words.'

Mr. Priebus continued, 'I mean, everyone’s suffering in the Holocaust including obviously, all of the Jewish people affected and the miserable genocide that occurred — it’s something that we consider to be extraordinarily sad.'

He added: 'If we could wipe it off of the history books, we would. But we can’t.'

The original statement, released on Friday, was dedicated to the 'victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust,' but did not specifically mention the approximately six million Jews who were exterminated by the German regime."

Does anyone want to continue to defend Trump, Priebus, and Breibart? If so, I'll teach you how to sing "Faccetta Nera" and "Giovinezza".
AGBF


Thanks for sharing this Deb. And Karl to not mention the Jewish people who were Hitler's main target of Hitler is wrong.Sorry about your friend Karl but that doesn't change the fact that not mentioning the Jewish people is a whitewashing of the Holocaust. Just what the white supremacist and neo Nazi groups and all those other evil hateful people out there want to happen.

"“The Final Solution was aimed solely at the Jews,” Mr. Podhoretz wrote, while acknowledging other groups were also killed by the Nazis. “To universalize it to ‘all those who suffered’ is to scrub the Holocaust of its meaning.”"

"The Holocaust was an intentional campaign to exterminate an entire people and it happened in front of the entire world"


"Anti-Defamation League Director Jonathan Greenblatt, who called the omission of Jews "puzzling and troubling," explaining to CNN that the United Nations created International Holocaust Remembrance Day in part to counter Holocaust denialists but also nations like Iran and Russia that refuse to acknowledge that Adolf Hitler was trying to exterminate Jews. These countries, especially their nationalist movements, instead "talk about generic suffering rather than recognizing this catastrophic incident for what is was: the intended genocide of the Jewish people," Greenblatt said.

The Republican Jewish Coalition wasn't pleased with Trump's omission, either. But at least the neo-Nazis were happy.
... Peter Weber

"This is what Holocaust denial is,” Mr. Kaine said on “Meet the Press.” “Many Holocaust deniers acknowledge: ‘Oh yeah, people were killed, but it was a lot of innocent people. Jews weren’t targets.’”"


And lastly I almost choked on my coffee this AM laughing so hard when I read the statement Trump's administration is inclusive of all (and hence the reason for the omission regarding the Jewish people being the main target of the Holocaust. Almost got another one. Luckily I recovered. ::)

Here is that excerpt if anyone else wants a good laugh. Hey these days I will take any laughs I can get because let's face it these are grim times. :blackeye:

Despite what the media reports, we are an incredibly inclusive group

:shock: :roll: :knockout: :lol: :wall: :wall: :wall:
 

mary poppins

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Yes, Trump and his administrators are so inclusive and tactful. Lol. That's why they ignore Jews on International Holocaust Remembrance Day and blast John Lewis at the beginning of Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. I wonder what will happen on Cinco de Mayo. :angryfire:

I don't know which republicans you think "will pay for Crazy Trump and all his lunacy for yeeeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss to come" seeing as only a few senators have spoken out against the ban. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/some-republicans-criticize-trump-s-immigration-order-n713826 Apparently many Trump supporters are fine with the ban. In addition to the article below, I've read a bunch of their comments (usually based on lack of information, misinformation and/or prejudice) on FB and elsewhere. A mosque in Texas went up in flames on Saturday.


Trump Voters Shrug Off Global Uproar Over Immigration Ban
by REUTERS

Many of President Donald Trump's core political supporters had a simple message on Sunday for the fiercest opponents of his immigration ban: Calm down.

The relaxed reaction among the kind of voters who drove Trump's historic upset victory — working- and middle-class residents of Midwest and the South — provided a striking contrast to the uproar that has gripped major coastal cities, where thousands of protesters flocked to airports where immigrants had been detained.

Protesters face off with a supporter of President Donald Trump during a demonstration against the immigration ban at Los Angeles International Airport on Sunday. Justin Sullivan / Getty Images
In the St. Louis suburb of Manchester, Missouri, 72-year-old Jo Ann Tieken characterized the president as bringing reason into an overheated debate.

"Somebody has to stand up, be the grown up and see what we can do better to check on people coming in," she said. "I'm all for everybody to stop and take a breath ? Just give it a chance."

By executive order on Friday, Trump banned immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries — Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen — and temporarily halted the entry of refugees.

In the electoral strongholds for Trump, residents seemed unmoved over the uproar flashing across their television screens. They shrugged off concerns about botched execution, damage to foreign relations and legal challenges across the country.


In New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities, Trump's action set off an outpouring of anger.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat from California, evoked an image of the Statue of Liberty weeping. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York teared up himself on camera as he seethed over the "mean-spirited and un-American" immigration ban.

Veterans in government agencies, including the Homeland Security and State departments, blasted Trump's team for what they called slipshod planning and scant interagency communication, criticism the White House rejected.

At airports, security officials also struggled to consistently enforce vague rules.

But allegations of operational or administrative blunders may do little to dampen enthusiasm for a president who rose to power on a populist and protectionist platform, political analysts said.

Louise Ingram, a 69-year-old retiree from Troy, Alabama, said she forgave the new administration a few "glitches," such as widespread confusion over treatment of green card holders, as it moved to protect U.S. citizens from attacks.

"I'm not opposed to immigrants," she said. "I just want to make sure they are safe to come in."

Candace Wheater, a 60-year-old retired school cafeteria worker from Spring Lake, Michigan, referenced the attacks in Brussels and Paris.

"Look at what's happening in Europe," she said. "I don't dare travel there, out of fear."

Steve Hirsch, 63, from Manassas, Virginia, drove to Washington's Dulles airport on Sunday to pick somebody up, rather than to protest as hundreds of others did.

Hirsch said he supported Trump's order. "A country is not a country if it doesn't have borders," he added.

He lauded Trump's actions as a calculated step toward the larger goal of tightening border security.

"He probably went as far as he thought he could," Hirsch said. "You can't ban everybody in the world, but I think it's prudent considering the conditions in certain places in the world."

Trent Lott, a former Senate Republican leader from Missouri who is now a lawyer in Washington, D.C., said the orders made sense to "working-class Americans in the real world."

"Out in the rest of the country, people are excited to see the president moving forward with securing the border," he said.

Play A look back at President Trump's whirlwind first week in office Facebook Twitter Google Plus Embed
A look back at President Trump's whirlwind first week in office 2:20
University of Virginia political science professor Larry Sabato agreed that the weekend protests over the executive orders would not hurt Trump politically.

"His base is as firm as ever," he said. "What he's lost in the very early polls is the Republicans who were never Trumpers and ended up voting for Trump."

Trump opponents have succeeded in winning some early court decisions that could undermine the practical impact of his executive orders, but Sabato said his base would perceive those as attacks from liberal elites.

Trump could eventually lose support if he fails to keep promises important to regions that supported him, such as delivering jobs to the so-called Rust Belt, the Midwestern states dotted by dying factory towns.

Whatever Trump ultimately accomplishes, his election has ushered in a new extreme of political polarization to an already deeply divided country.

"I just have not found a single person who has any neutrality at all about Donald Trump," Sabato said.

Play Penn. Gov. on Trump's Executive Order: 'I'm Outraged' As an American Facebook Twitter Google Plus Embed
Penn. Gov. on Trump's Executive Order: 'I'm Outraged' As an American 1:46
In Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 40-year-old teacher Trista Carles said she had been ordered to keep her views about Trump out of the classroom.

"We were told to be Switzerland," she said. "We're not allowed to take any sides or views."

She has her own opinions, of course, and said she appreciated that Trump, in his blunt way, gave voice to them "with no sugar-coating."

"I think it's just too easy to get into our country and stay illegally," she said. "I feel like he is going to — to the best of his abilities — make a lot of things he said happen."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-voters-shrug-global-uproar-over-immigration-ban-n714011
 

mary poppins

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Dan Rather has a nice way with words:

There is a biting symmetry that Holocaust Remembrance Day, and the failure of the Trump Administration to mention the Jewish people in its statement, occurred at the same time the Administration was blowing up American immigration policy in a way that harkened back to the years before World War II.

For all the reverence in which President Franklin Roosevelt is rightly held, one of the most lasting shames of his presidency was how his government - our United States - turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees fleeing Europe, most of whom returned to their death. Another lasting shame was the scapegoating of patriotic Japanese Americans who were sent to internment camps based solely on their ethnic heritage.

These twin stains on our national history see fearsome echoes in our own time. Whitewashing history to the degree of removing the Jewish people - the 6 million killed and the millions more with ruined lives - from the story of the Holocaust? Alienating people around the world today along ethnic and religious lines? And in so doing not only undermining our morality but our national security? Turning a blind eye to the desperate suffering of others? This is not our national character. And these are not accidental actions. One must ask, who is this crowd playing to? And with Steve Bannon as arguably President Trump's chief advisor, and after all the rhetoric from the campaign, the burden of proof is on the Administration to show that their impulses are not those of unabashed racism. So far, they are falling far short of that burden.
 

missy

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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/316951-holocaust-museum-issues-statement-after-trump-admin-defends-its-holocaust
Thanks Mary Poppins for the additional links. It's just you and me here it seems.

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum released a statement Monday afternoon shortly after White House press secretary Sean Spicer defended the fact that President Trump’s International Holocaust Remembrance Day statement did not mention Jews or anti-Semitism.


"The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of six million Jews by Nazi Germany and its collaborators. Nazi ideology cast the world as a racial struggle, and the singular focus on the total destruction of every Jewish person was at its racist core. Millions of other innocent civilians were persecuted and murdered by the Nazis, but the elimination of Jews was central to Nazi policy. As Elie Wiesel said, 'Not all victims were Jews, but all Jews were victims,'” the museum wrote in its statement.


"The Holocaust teaches us profound truths about human societies and our capacity for evil. An accurate understanding of this history is critical if we are to learn its lessons and honor its victims.”



Nothing this administration does surprises me and at least they are equal in their hate and disdain and contempt of all those who aren't exactly the same as they are i.e. white christian male.

calvinandhobbesweareheretodevoureachotheralive.gif
 

mary poppins

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Missy, I agree with that statement. The Holocaust originated with and was driven by the desire to eradicate Jews and, to Karl's point, there was additional damage in the nature of others who were, among other characteristics, not white or heterosexual.

Trump's statement is in stark contrast with Obama's 2016 inclusive statement that shows acknowledgment and understanding of history.

Statement by President Obama 'on Holocaust Remembrance Day 2016:
"Today, on Yom HaShoah, we solemnly remember the six million Jews and the millions of others murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust. We also honor those who survived the Holocaust, many of them spared from death because of the righteous individuals who risked their lives to save Jews and other victims from Nazi persecution....Today, and every day, we stand in solidarity with the Jewish community both at home and abroad. We stand with those who are leaving the European cities where they have lived for generations because they no longer feel safe, with the members of institutions that have been attacked because of their Jewish affiliations, and with the college students forced to confront swastikas appearing on their campuses."
 

Calliecake

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Trump was wrong not to reference the 6 million Jewish people who died in the Holocaust. I watched the Meet the Press show Sunday morning. Chuck Todd gave Preibus every opportunity to admit they were wrong and they refused to apologize. This was another example of how this administration does nothing to unite people. I don't understand how you could be a Jewish person living in this country and not been offended. We ALL should be offended by the way they handed the Holocaust Rememberence Day.
 

ruby59

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Ronald Lauder of the World Jewish Congress that seemed to criticize Greenblatt and the ADL.

"It does no honor to the millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust to play politics with their memory," the Lauder statement read in part. "Any fair reading of the White House statement today on the International Holocaust Memorial Day will see it appropriately commemorates the suffering and the heroism that mark that dark chapter in modern history."
 

missy

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Agree Callie and Mary Poppins. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Ruby I am going to quote the whole excerpt to make it more clear.


http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/lauder-criticizes-adls-negative-reaction-to-trump-statement-on-holocaust-remembrance-day-1-6-2017

World Jewish Congress President Ronald S. Lauder said the following in response to the Anti-Defamation League's criticism of a statement made by US President Donald Trump on the occasion of International Holocaust Remembrance Day:

"It does no honor to the millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust to play politics with their memory.

"Any fair reading of the White House statement on International Holocaust Remembrance Day will see it appropriately commemorates the suffering and the heroism that mark that dark chapter in modern history.

"There is enough real anti-Semitic and there are enough true threats facing the Jewish people today. Our community gains nothing if we reach a point where manufactured outrages reduce public sensitivity to the real dangers we confront," Lauder said.

ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt tweeted on Friday that Trump's statement was “puzzling and troubling” because it refers to “depravity and horror” inflicted on “innocent people” by the Nazis and fails to mention that the victims were Jews.
 

ruby59

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To be clear, the article I quoted from only included what I highlighted.


And I agree and wish people would stop using that remembrance as an excuse for what is happening now or that Jews should be ashamed that this day was not brought into the fray.

I can assure you it was remembered and honored in my temple and I am sure in those around the world.
 

missy

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ruby59|1485894916|4122456 said:
To be clear, the article I quoted from only included what I highlighted.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the rest of it made it more clear so added it.
 

mary poppins

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Ronald Lauder makes a good point. Thanks for the additional information Ruby and Missy.
 
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