At what point do you give up?

[ponder]

Last fall my SIL and her DH decided that after years of misery that divorce was the best decision. Since then my DH and I have given her unconditional emotional, physical, and monetary support to help her and her child get back on her feet. For the past 6 months or so it has been brought to our attention by SIL's close friend that SIL has been leading a very distructive life style behind our backs. She has been recreationally using pot, having unprotected sex with multiple, multiple shady partners (ex convicts along with some regular guys) and unfortunately while hiding it from us I think she may be doing this when her child is around. We convinced her to start seeing a therapist and for a while things got better, but apparently the behavior has resumed.

I no longer trust her at all, and afraid to say that she is not fit to have custody of her daughter. Unfortunately I dont really think her ex is either nor would he want primary custody.

I cant (nor do I want to desert her child who is with DH and I alot), but I cant condone or ignore her behavior anymore. I have ran out of ideas and my gut tells me that there is a hard lesson that she is going to have to learn on her own, but I dont want her child to suffer from her mistakes.

Next weekend will be the third time we have confronted her about her behavior, but I dont think it will do any good. I am tempted to tell her ex about her behavior, but its probably not a great idea. I am going to cut her off monetarily and tell her that I am tempted to confront her ex with her behavior, but besides that I dont know what to do or how to help her.

Sorry for the rant, but any insights or suggestions would be helpful

 

[doodle]

Yikes, that's a rough one. I would definitely cut her off--she has no reason to land on her feet if you're willing to carry her, and in the long run, it's better for the child if mommy gets her act together rather than being supported by others. Is there anyone else who might be more capable of getting through to her or intervening on behalf of the child, like the grandparents or something? I'm sorry I don't have much to offer you because I honestly don't know what I'd do either, but I wish you the best on a difficult situation!

 

[fieryred33143]

Wow Ponder what a tough spot to be in! I completely understand the conflict you are feeling. We are going through something similar. My cousin has a very destructive lifestyle and lives off of my aunt. She sleeps with a lot of different guys, lies about working so that she can hang out, and is very rude to my aunt. However, my aunt won't kick her out because she has a daughter. We have no idea what kind of mom she would be on her own since my aunt has taken care of her and the baby since birth (she's now 2). On the one hand, she NEEDS to go through hardship in order to learn what it's like to really work for a good life. On the other hand, someone has to be an advocate for the young child. We're all divided on this issue. My mom says she would have thrown her out ages ago. I can't imagine throwing her out because of the baby.

Anyway, at the end of the day her life is her responsibility not yours. It is incredibly selfish of her to place this burden on you and your husband. I would cut her off but keep an eye on the child to make sure the child is ok. Are the grandparents involved at all?

 

[monarch64]

After last fall as you said, I would've written them both off and been done with it. They divorced, so why haven't YOU moved on?

 

[megumic]

Two things:

1. Read the book Beautiful Boy -- translate the lessons to said sister. There is nothing you can do but continue to unconditionally love her and provide emotional support. (And sure, the response is "at what cost?" -- but in my opinion that's just what you do for family unless there are extreme extreme circumstances which I won't go into defining here.)

2. Whatever you do, do NOTcall child protective services. If anything, kindly offer to take the child for a period of time or figure out an emergency plan. How old is the child? Kids are smart, perhaps talk with the kiddo about what to do if she is uncomfortable or scared.

So to answer your post more directly, in my book giving up on family is just something you don't do. Cut her off yes, confront her to the nines about her behavior, talk about appropriate care for her child, etc. But what will giving up on her achieve?

 

[ponder]

I love my SIL dearly and we are a very close family. We have been best friends for over 15 years so its a hard to see her do this to herself. I would never have dreamed she would be in this situation a year ago.

Her parents are aware of her behavior and have been with us each time DH and I have talked to her. She says she knows what she is doing is not good for her, breaks down crying, and promises to change. Its like talking to an addict.

I think I could ignore her behavior better, but I cant stand the thought of SIL bringing complete strangers around her child. She sneaks them in for random sex while her child is asleep in the other room. We are afraid of what one of these guys may do to SIL or even worse to her child.

I have not questioned her child, who is old enough to tell me if something is going on. Her child is with DH and I alot and I have not seen a change in behavior there, but I constantly worry about her safety. I would not call CPS. I have heard nothing but how inept they are, usually ignoring extreme cases of abuse and harrassing misunderstandings.

DH and I talked last night and our game plan is to talk to her about her behavior, cut her off monetarily, and urge her to move in with her Mom since her lease is about to expire. We figure she cant expose her kid to bad situations if she is living at home.

 

[dragonfly411]

Ponder - Have you offered the idea of going to Counseling or AA with her? Perhaps she needs to feel like you are THERE to support her, not just monetarily but with her emotionally.

Have the grandparents offered to take the child? Do they actually take action at these confrontations? Or are you doing all of the talking? It sounds to me like they aren't really being as helpful with the situation?

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Strangely enough I have a family member in a somewhat similar situation. Everybody in my family has stopped giving her monetary support, though we still offer emotional support and have offered to get her therapy because she genuinely needs help. The problem is the kids. My heart aches and I have shed MANY tears over the kids.

My family is now babysitting the kids in sort of a rotation. My niece (the mom) is not fit to parent and wants nothing to do with her kids. The father is physically abusive. So my sister (the kids' grandma) watches them when my niece has custody of them. If she can't watch them, my parents or other sisters do.

Also, while we no longer give my niece money, we will buy things for the kids. Diapers, clothes, ect. It sounds like your SIL's child is older, so I'm not sure how you and your family can intervene (since obviously somehing like taking her child to school becomes a factor), but I do think it's worth talking with your family about. I really hope your SIL moves in with your ILs for now, at least for the child's sake.

I know how heartbreaking it can be to watch. My family's situation eats at me constantly. And I feel angry and helpless. I don't care how condescending I sound, I find it revolting and very non-maternal to knowingly put your kids in a dangerous situation out of selfishness.

 

[movie zombie]

the time to move on is when you're putting more energy into it than she is. good that you'll stop giving her $. in many ways she's being enabled. whether or not she gets to counseling, perhaps it would be good for you and hubby to do so to clarify what your alternatives are and what the consequences of those alternatives would mean.

1-why would shouldn't her ex know what is going on? is he an unfit parent?
2-perhaps you could offer to take the kids for a period of time....get it done with legal guardianship. however, ex would have to agree.
3-child protective services should try and place children with family first. if she's really, Really, REALLY out of control and you fear for the safety of the children, its time to make the call.
4-perhaps an intervention with everyone present at the same time would be more effective?

this is a rough one. the primary consideration should be the kids.

MoZo

ps what if she brings home someone for random sex who then harms the children? how do family and friends feel then? perhaps she needs to know that she is not just jeopardizing herself?

it may be time to be more proactive regarding the safety of the kids or "move on" and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

She has the right to live her life how she wants. You gotta stay in your hula hoop. Do you believe her friend? Would (s)he lie or have a secret motive? If you are worried about the child there are things you can do. You must protect the child. When it comes to your SIL you have to LET GO. Let go or be dragged. Sounds like you have been dragged for awhile.

 

[ponder]

Thanks ladies this is really helping.

I will talk to her going to her therapist with her, since who knows what she tells her, if anything.

Dragonfly- DH and I have really been the ones to address these issues because we seem to relate to SIL better. My MIL just doesnt get why she is behaving this way. She just cant get past the fact that "her daughter has turned into a tramp". My SIL just tunes her mom out. I see that my SIL has some major self esteem and depression issues and I think she hates herself and is trying to punish herself through this self destructive behavior. Her father had similar issues and died from alcoholism. I refuse to let her destroy herself like he did without trying to help her.

This whole bad behavior is a very recent thing. She has not been a crazy misbehaving bad parent for years. She has a great job and has always put her kid first until the divorce last year. It was then that she went off the deep end. DH and I have been helping to support her by helping with a unexpected expenses and we keep her daughter 1-2 weeks a month when she has to travel for work.

NEL- I find it revolting and very non-maternal to knowingly put your kids in a dangerous situation out of selfishness. This is exactly how I feel, and why I cant let this go.

Mozo- we tried the intervention thing with full family present and the friend who has been feeding us the info. SIL pretty much admitted to everything that was going on except having men around her daughter. The friend is adamant that this is going, and for now I believe her since she has yet to lie/exaggerate anything, and SIL has admitted to lieing and hiding things from us.

I dont know if I would call the EX unfit, but he certainly has his issues. Primarily alcoholism and little to no interest in his kid. He may actually agree to a temporary custody to us. He likes us and knows that it is good for his kid to be with us when we do have her.

My biggest fear is that one of these guys will harm my niece, SIL's friend told me that she had one of these guys over (the felon I think) while my niece had another child sleeping over. So now not only is she putting her child in jeopardy, she is doing this with other kids around. That was a fun phone call I had to make to the child's parent.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Her father had similar issues and died from alcoholism. I refuse to let her destroy herself like he did without trying to help her.

If she does destroy her life please know there is nothing you CAN do. You didn't cause her problems, you cannot cure them, and you certainly cannot control them. The only way you can help is looking out for the best interest of her child. *SHE* needs to figure out her life herself. I would also suggest attending an al-anon meeting for your own peace of mind. Clearly her life is negatively impacting your life. You are allowing that. Ending your own isolation could really help you see clearly.

ETA: If she is an alcoholic please know it is a disease. It is not out of selfishness, but obsession. I am sure your SIL loves her child and is a good person but an addict will do whatever and say whatever to support their addiction. She is sick. Hopefully you can see her with more compassion than hate b/c I believe sincerely that no one would CHOOSE to have an addiction. If she is not ready to live a sober life she may get desperate after you cut her off. More reason to offer the child (if you are willing) life with you full time.