at what color range before we can call a yellow diamond..

[Dancing Fire]

a yellow diamond ? how rare are those so call brown diamonds ? is there a RAP sheet for colored stones?

 

[Dancing Fire]

are these Qs too difficult to answer?

i''ve never purchase a colored stone.

 

[3cd4her]

Recently stumbled upon this and think it may be of help.

http://diamondsbylauren.com/DBL_Yellow_diamond_grading.shtml
http://diamondsbylauren.com/DBL_White_diamond_grading.shtml

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:18:43 PM
Author:Dancing Fire
a yellow diamond ? how rare are those so call brown diamonds ? is there a RAP sheet for colored stones?

After Z on the GIA scale I believe is the cutoff before you get into the official fancy yellow grades if I remember rightly. Are you thinking of buying a brown diamond??

 

[:)]

Date: 1/28/2009 5:14:09 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/27/2009 9:18:43 PM
Author:Dancing Fire
a yellow diamond ? how rare are those so call brown diamonds ? is there a RAP sheet for colored stones?

After Z on the GIA scale I believe is the cutoff before you get into the official fancy yellow grades if I remember rightly. Are you thinking of buying a brown diamond??

My impression was that he was trying to give RockDiamond a thread for teaching/diialogue about this.

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

These are great questions. I want a yellow diamond and was hoping to cheat by getting something in the W-Z range. The designer of the ring I want said that I could get a lighter yellow and he could put a yellow-gold base under it to make it face up more yellow, which I think is a great solution. I asked one of our renowned PS vendors, but he never answered the question as to whether or not these colors are actually less expensive than fancies.

3cd4her, thanks for those links. I have seen those, but it still doesn't help me compare prices with similar fancy yellow colors of the same size & shape. Also, I need a 6.5 mm square Asscher cut, so I am narrowing down my chances exponentially.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/28/2009 9:54:54 AM
Author:

Date: 1/28/2009 5:14:09 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/27/2009 9:18:43 PM
Author:Dancing Fire
a yellow diamond ? how rare are those so call brown diamonds ? is there a RAP sheet for colored stones?

After Z on the GIA scale I believe is the cutoff before you get into the official fancy yellow grades if I remember rightly. Are you thinking of buying a brown diamond??

My impression was that he was trying to give RockDiamond a thread for teaching/diialogue about this.

 

[coatimundi_org]

I posted this awhile back...

Here''s some info about GIA Color Grading.

--Yellow Color--to be deemed "fancy yellow" color starts beyond Z in the normal color range (D-Z). K-L-M are considered Faint Yellow, but they are not fancies. Same for N-R (Very Light Yellow) and S-Z (Light Yellow).

--Browns are a bit different. Brown diamonds (within D-Z) darker than K color get a word modifier. Faint Brown for K - M, Very Light Brown for N - R, Light Brown for S - Z.

--Greys darker than J are graded Faint Grey, Light Grey etc. with no letter grade.

--All other colors are graded in the fancy color system depending on hue and intensity.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:18:43 PM
Author:Dancing Fire
a yellow diamond ? how rare are those so call brown diamonds ? is there a RAP sheet for colored stones?

HI Everyone!
Great question DF!
First of all, what is a yellow diamond?
This is not as simple a question as it sounds.
It would be easy to use GIA''s grading scale to say the yellow begins at "Fancy Light Yellow"
I disagree - because a well cut U-V, W-X, or Y-Z color diamond is yellow when you look at it.
It''s lighter than a Fancy Light, but yellow nonetheless.

Brown diamonds are actually pretty difficult to find in the market- well, let me re-phrase that = Nice looking brown diamonds are not all that common.
Luckily for brown diamond lovers, the price is not based on how hard it is to find one- they are among the least costly of all colors in diamonds.

There is no "Rap Sheet" for fancy colored diamonds.
For sure there are pricing patterns- which one would need to be familiar with ( as a dealer) to be able to successfully trade colored diamonds.
Even then, there are anomalies.
I''m talking about diamonds of a particular GIA grade that will go for a lot more, or less than the average.
This can be due to many different factors such as cut, clarity- but most of all, how the stone actually looks.
For example, a cutter finishes a Yellow Radiant, and he''s SURE it''s an intense yellow.
GIA grades it the next lightest grade- Fancy Yellow.
It can be a borderline stone- one that might have gotten Fancy Intense on another day.
Such a stone might trade at a 10-20% premium over a stone GIA gave the same grade, but one that actually looks lighter.
This is a good time to bring up clarity- which has a different effect on fancy colored pricing.
Let''s use the hypothetical two stones I just referred to.
Both graded "Fancy Yellow" by GIA.
The lighter colored stone is a VVS2, the darker stone an SI1.
In such a case, the SI1 might actually be worth more due to the better color.

No question it''s an interesting field- and one that gives me delightful and constant challenges

 

[mausketeer]

I have been trying to find a brown diamond for a couple of months - no luck at all (was looking for a specific size and shape, clarity etc.) Like you, I was also hoping to find one in the regular colour scale range that was NOT a fancy (IE: a less intense brown than would make it qualify for a fancy grading) Nada. Finally settled on an M which is the one grade that I think looks DARK without looking definitely yellow. From all the stones I''ve looked at, as a LAYPERSON, I''d say that from about P down to Z definitely look yellow to MY eye.

You should easily be able to find a yellow stone (non-fancy grade) in that range for a good price.

You''re lucky you like yellow - I wish the browns weren''t so hard to find! Good luck!

(I''ve been collecting photos of different colours when I''ve come across them, I''ll post a few.....)

- Jodie -

here''s a P colour......

 

[mausketeer]

another P (all of these with halos are from Faye Cullen. They have a lot of light fancy browns and yellows as well as regular lower grade colours like these. I like these colours personally but you''ll read on here the quality and return policy from them is not the best)

 

[mausketeer]

ooops... well that last one didn't have a halo.... last P stone from Faye Cullen..... (no comment on the cut and polish on this one...... it's probably an old stone so I guess that's okay.....)

 

[mausketeer]

here''s an O - with "light yellow" as the modifier? (experts, is that what you call it when you add the colour name to it?)

 

[mausketeer]

here''s a Y-Z "light yellow" - personally I think this is a really pretty colour.....

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/28/2009 2:35:47 PM
Author: mausketeer
here''s an O - with ''light yellow'' as the modifier? (experts, is that what you call it when you add the colour name to it?)

Nice pics!
One of the things that we have found is the inconsistency in these colors.
Sometimes a diamond graded S-T looks almost white- and other cases it looks almost like a fancy yellow
Actually, the GIA grade is called "O-P"- there''s no single grade "O"


I also LOVE Y-Z color.....

 

[mausketeer]

Date: 1/28/2009 2:43:44 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/28/2009 2:35:47 PM
Author: mausketeer
here''s an O - with ''light yellow'' as the modifier? (experts, is that what you call it when you add the colour name to it?)

Nice pics!
One of the things that we have found is the inconsistency in these colors.
Sometimes a diamond graded S-T looks almost white- and other cases it looks almost like a fancy yellow
Actually, the GIA grade is called ''O-P''- there''s no single grade ''O''


I also LOVE Y-Z color.....

Ah, okay - thanks for clarifying David..... I was trying to collect photos of as many as I could find and might not have labelled them right...... yeah, it''s kind of a weird area, huh? We spoke last week about that L "faint brown" you had sold. Don''t know how I''d go about finding something like that so I gave up (I need my ring NOW! lol)

Oooh - here''s the L - it''s SO pretty! (I know the poster is looking for yellows - sorry) But it gives you an idea of how different they all can be, yeah? I was surprised.....

 

[mausketeer]

Here it is set in the ring with rose gold basket...... looks like a pink diamond to me! Lovely......

 

[Rockdiamond]

AH! Thanks for posting that photo...man, do I wish I could find 100 stones like that one!!

We just stocked some deeper browns- which are hard enough to source- but the Radiant in the photo is seemingly impossible to replicate......

 

[mausketeer]

Date: 1/28/2009 2:01:19 PM
Author: coatimundi
I posted this awhile back...

Here''s some info about GIA Color Grading.

--Yellow Color--to be deemed ''fancy yellow'' color starts beyond Z in the normal color range (D-Z). K-L-M are considered Faint Yellow, but they are not fancies. Same for N-R (Very Light Yellow) and S-Z (Light Yellow).

--Browns are a bit different. Brown diamonds (within D-Z) darker than K color get a word modifier. Faint Brown for K - M, Very Light Brown for N - R, Light Brown for S - Z.

--Greys darker than J are graded Faint Grey, Light Grey etc. with no letter grade.

--All other colors are graded in the fancy color system depending on hue and intensity.

Hmmm - I didn''t know this part (just saw that one stone on Diamonds by Lauren site that I have posted here that was an L-Faint Brown) So I should have been asking around for a K-M "Faint Brown" or a N-R "Very Light Brown"? Do you know (or David) what the difference is in appearance between these and C1-C3 champagnes? Is it just the INTENSITY of the colour that makes them not make the cut as a champagne?

 

[mausketeer]

Date: 1/28/2009 2:59:42 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
AH! Thanks for posting that photo...man, do I wish I could find 100 stones like that one!!

We just stocked some deeper browns- which are hard enough to source- but the Radiant in the photo is seemingly impossible to replicate......

Tell me about it! LOL.

Funny thing is my quest for a brown started off with a stone in a store right next door to where I live. It''s a 1.7 carat M princess that I''d swear is a C1 or C2 champagne. Really lovely pinky/brown colour. Too bad it has a big old feather right in the middle of the table (I1 or I2 I think).

The fact that I saw one so close meant I thought I''d be able to find another one with better clarity really easily! Little did I know.......

Anyways.... sorry to threadjack - hope any of this has helped in answering your yellow stone questions.......

- Jodie -

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/28/2009 3:02:45 PM
Author: mausketeer

Date: 1/28/2009 2:01:19 PM
Author: coatimundi
I posted this awhile back...

Here''s some info about GIA Color Grading.

--Yellow Color--to be deemed ''fancy yellow'' color starts beyond Z in the normal color range (D-Z). K-L-M are considered Faint Yellow, but they are not fancies. Same for N-R (Very Light Yellow) and S-Z (Light Yellow).

--Browns are a bit different. Brown diamonds (within D-Z) darker than K color get a word modifier. Faint Brown for K - M, Very Light Brown for N - R, Light Brown for S - Z.

--Greys darker than J are graded Faint Grey, Light Grey etc. with no letter grade.

--All other colors are graded in the fancy color system depending on hue and intensity.

Hmmm - I didn''t know this part (just saw that one stone on Diamonds by Lauren site that I have posted here that was an L-Faint Brown) So I should have been asking around for a K-M ''Faint Brown'' or a N-R ''Very Light Brown''? Do you know (or David) what the difference is in appearance between these and C1-C3 champagnes? Is it just the INTENSITY of the colour that makes them not make the cut as a champagne?

Good ( and common) question!

Knowing what to ask for, in this particular case, is not really all that heloful.
Like, if I know I want a Pink Elephant...heheh

I, for one, am not all that fond of the C1-C7 scale- mainly because it does not adress the modifying colors- or really deal with the Faint colors nearly as well as GIA.
Even GIA''s grades are lacking but I feel they''re the best we have.....

The term "Champage" just like the term "Canary" is overly boprad so not all that helpful when discussing brown diamonds to the level of detail we''re going int here.

PS - coatmundi- great info!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/28/2009 3:10:25 PM
Author: mausketeer

Date: 1/28/2009 2:59:42 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
AH! Thanks for posting that photo...man, do I wish I could find 100 stones like that one!!

We just stocked some deeper browns- which are hard enough to source- but the Radiant in the photo is seemingly impossible to replicate......

Tell me about it! LOL.

Funny thing is my quest for a brown started off with a stone in a store right next door to where I live. It''s a 1.7 carat M princess that I''d swear is a C1 or C2 champagne. Really lovely pinky/brown colour. Too bad it has a big old feather right in the middle of the table (I1 or I2 I think).

The fact that I saw one so close meant I thought I''d be able to find another one with better clarity really easily! Little did I know.......

Anyways.... sorry to threadjack - hope any of this has helped in answering your yellow stone questions.......

- Jodie -

Jodie- was it GIA that called the diamond "M" color?
if it wasn''t we can toss the grade out the window- with all due respect to whoever graded it- these colors are among the most difficult to grade...

 

[soocool]

mausketeer: Just out of curiosity what color are the stones surrounding the " P" colored diamond in the halo pics.

The reason I am asking is that I am trying to figure out how high I can go in color in the center stone of a halo before it becomes too noticeable.

 

[mausketeer]

Date: 1/28/2009 3:17:02 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Jodie- was it GIA that called the diamond ''M'' color?

if it wasn''t we can toss the grade out the window- with all due respect to whoever graded it- these colors are among the most difficult to grade...

Hmmm - the stone that I saw in the local store that was such a pretty pinky/brown you mean? Don''t know to tell you the truth. I stopped in there on my way home to look at more M''s and an N. Boy, their clarity grades are pretty off I think so yeah, probably not a GIA graded stone I guess?

Date: 1/28/2009 3:21:26 PM
Author: soocool
mausketeer: Just out of curiosity what color are the stones surrounding the '' P'' colored diamond in the halo pics.


The reason I am asking is that I am trying to figure out how high I can go in color in the center stone of a halo before it becomes too noticeable.

Sorry, don''t know. I''m sure some of those rings are still for sale - you''ll have to find one on Faye Cullen and check (it says at the bottom of the description what colour and clarity the secondary stones are.... I THINK they do anyways)