Asscher specs ok to be called in?

[clop]

Hi! are the specs below good enough to be called in for a view? Can I safely assume "cut-cornered square"=royal asscher? Will the faint flouro ''whiten'' the color of the H? Apologies, crown height is n/a at this moment. Thanks for your help!

Cut-Cornered Square Step Cut
Measurements: 5.99 x 5.97 x 4.22 mm
Carat Weight: 1.40
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS1
Proportions:
Depth: 70.7 %
Table: 65 %
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Thick
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint

 

[KCCutie]

Actually from what I''ve read... "cut cornered square" = cut cornered square.

Royal Asscher is a branded cut and will come with a premium.

Hopefully another Asscher pro will chime in on if it looks good enough to call in, the table and depth are on the high end of what most look for but that may not rule it out.

 

[clop]

Hi KC, thanks, I''ll double check. I thought I read somewhere ''cut cornered square'' was what was labeled on the cert for RAs, I must be wrong.

I haven''t had much luck with generics, thought I''d give RAs a try. Am I incorrect in thinking the majority of them will be fine? Or will they also need to be thoroughly scrutinized?

 

[katamari]

Hi Clop--

I am also looking for an Asscher. From my experience, even Ideal cuts from the same place can look very different and there seems to be a lot of variation in appearance. I say you should want to scrutinize as much as possible. People on here have been very helpful to me, though. They will have some good advice for you!

 

[strmrdr]

Its not one I would call in.
With that depth I want a smaller table or a big discount.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 6/24/2008 7:38:21 PM
Author: strmrdr
Its not one I would call in.
With that depth I want a smaller table or a big discount.

Why not Storm?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/25/2008 7:54:30 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 6/24/2008 7:38:21 PM

Author: strmrdr

Its not one I would call in.

With that depth I want a smaller table or a big discount.

Why not Storm?

It is more than likely a RA clone and a lot of them are not well done and at over 70%+ depth 65% table there is a good chance of there being to much of the stone in the pavilion.
If it was in stock I would look at the pictures and decide from there but it is not one I would spend time and money on calling in.
This will eventually be covered in part 2 of my journal article series on step cuts in more detail as it gets complicated quickly.

 

[clop]

Hi Katamari, thanks for sharing your experience. Good luck with your search; you have a promising prospect?

Thanks Storm for your analysis, thank you Gary for your additional inquiry that let to the explanation that followed.

The stone is priced low, but also not available anymore. Is part 1 available on this site?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/25/2008 3:44:08 PM
Author: clop
Hi Katamari, thanks for sharing your experience. Good luck with your search; you have a promising prospect?


Thanks Storm for your analysis, thank you Gary for your additional inquiry that let to the explanation that followed.


The stone is priced low, but also not available anymore. Is part 1 available on this site?

Part one is done but I waiting for some people to get back from vacation to review it before it is published here.
Should be up in the next 2 weeks if all goes well.
Part 2 will be further out than that.
My wifey2b is here on vacation so I have very limited net time right now.

 

[clop]

Cool, will keep an eye out for it!

lol didn''t know clones existed, maybe that (plus not so nice %s) explains the low price.

Thanks again!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 6/25/2008 10:17:34 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/25/2008 7:54:30 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 6/24/2008 7:38:21 PM

Author: strmrdr

Its not one I would call in.

With that depth I want a smaller table or a big discount.

Why not Storm?

It is more than likely a RA clone and a lot of them are not well done and at over 70%+ depth 65% table there is a good chance of there being to much of the stone in the pavilion.
If it was in stock I would look at the pictures and decide from there but it is not one I would spend time and money on calling in.
This will eventually be covered in part 2 of my journal article series on step cuts in more detail as it gets complicated quickly.

Then you should say that Storm

"there is a good chance this stone blah blah blah"

Then the buyer can decide to call it in or not.

But you do not know this is a bad stone, just that there is a probability issue. Please respect your position and provide adequate information.

 

[Gypsy]

Hi.

A) No, an asscher is a cut cornered square and a Royal Asscher is a patented cut.
B) I personally would not want a stone that weighed 1.4 carats yet looked (faced up) like a diamond that is only slightly over a carat or at a carat. I have a 1.09 and it faces up about this size. 6 x 6 is small for the carat weight. Probably because its so very deep. It could still be a nice stone, but it is small for it's weight.
C) The crown height isn't listed, but with that table and depth combo... I'm not expecting a lot of fire and scintillation. It just looks like its probably a bottom heavy stone... plus it's got that thick culet making is smaller too-- which by itself is not a big deal, but combined with everything else, I'm not liking.

Overall, unless this was the ONLY stone available with EX/EX in the color and clarity you wanted and you actually WANT a 6 x 6 stone and can't find another AND the price is really attractive , it wouldn't be on my list of stones to call in. You could get similar spread in stone that weighs less, and probably costs less.

 

[clop]

Hi Gypsy, thank you for your explanation.

a) All the certs I had seen for Royal Asschers said "cut cornered square" and up until now, all generics said, "square emerald cut." I also saw it erroneously? listed somewhere that "cut cornered square" = Royal Asscher. I''m glad that was cleared up.

b&c) Yes, in my excitement that this was a possible stone I overlooked the dimensions etc. Also was under the assumption that (had this been a RA) RAs are very likely always great stones.

Your response was very informative, and helps a lot.

Should I be changing my approach at all? I was working with one vendor, who said supply was limited, and would contact me if anything became available. It''s been some time since our last contact. After reading jplouis'' and oops forgot the name of another poster (captaincarat''s maybe?) success stories, I thought I might change my approach. BTW - if I haven''t already posted in your threads, thanks to both of you for sharing info & your process for successes! Any other stones I thought were decent and that I have posted here have been nixed by Storm/other posters.

 

[Gypsy]

NO, NO, NO Square Emerald cut is what is normally listed. MY BAD. SORRY. I am unqualified to speak to issue of whether a cut cornered square step cut means an RA. But, I think I read somewhere that RA's are engraved with the word Royal Asscher and/or a serial number on them and that if the stone is an RA it would be in the notes section of the certificate that such an etching (or whatever you call it) is on the diamond. I would suspect that it's not an automatic thing that 'cut cornered square step cut' means RA though... however, that's just inate caution speaking--I have no frame of reference for the opinion. I would send an email to the folks at RA and ask them or the GIA about that, just for a confirmation.

As for the diamond. My thoughts still stand. The spread would bug the heck out of me. RA's are NOT spready either, but this one is particularly underwelming example of a step cut diamond (whether or not is an RA) in terms of spread.

 

[Gypsy]

About your approach. Well, many people have had a lot of success with working with one vendor. It is true that most diamonds are listed on a central database that jewelers have access to and that working with too many vendors can be redundant and frustrating. My best advice would be to tell you what I would do if I were in your place. Although the first thing I would do is to look at the Pearlmans Closeout Daniel K rings and see if any of the ones on that site works for me, cause that would be the most ideal.

However if that didn’t work: I don’t know which vendor you are working with, but my first choice of vendors would be GOG for asschers. They have a really good eye for picking them, seem to find some really nice examples and can provide you with a ton of information to help you decide. Their customer service is top notch, and I’ve seen them bend over backwards to help people (same with many of the vendors below). My second choice vendors would be Mark at ERD, Pearlman’s, WF or James Allen. These four all have strengths and weaknesses IMO when it comes to fancies.
WF has found several lovely emerald cuts (square or not) provides a lot of pictures (on request) and information and have great customer service… but PERSONALLY my eye disagrees with some of their choices on occasion- at least what I can see of the choices on the monitor. That’s just been my experience in looking at the stones chosen by them. But, it’s a matter of volume as well. They choose MANY stones for people, so obviously one person is bound to think some aren’t as nice as others.

JA is a good vendor but they don’t have an ASET, which makes picking fancies sight unseen a bit challenge. They do have a reasonably good number of stones listed on their site though, so searching for stones is usually fine. They take good pics, and IS’s as well—though they don’t list the ISs on their site and if the stone is in inventory usually there is only one pic to go by. Their customer service has a good reputation though I have not pestered them to the extent I have the other vendors, so I can’t speak to it. I have seen some lovely pears they have picked and a few nice ECs as well.

ERD has a lot of stones listed as well; the majority of it appears to be virtual inventory however. The prices are good, I PERSONALLY like Mark’s eye for picking fancies, and they are right in the heart of diamond district so they can sometimes get things others can’t as readily get. But their pictures well… suck and they don’t have the ability to give you the scans and so forth the other vendors have—forget the ASET as regular pictures can be a challenge. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stone I’ve considered a dud from Mark.

Pearlman’s: They don’t have many stones listed on the site, you have to call them and ask him to look for you. This is why many people use them for settings and for jewelry other than diamonds center stones. But they can get you pics and an IS (but not an ASET) and the pics are useful pics and good ones from what I’ve seen. Also Bill has a lot of experience in the industry and again, I PERSONALLY like his eye for the stones I’ve seen him choose—but there haven’t been that many of them as, like I said, the majority of people use them for other purchases it seems.
I know this is turning into a Novel so I’ll summarize. IF I were looking for an asscher I would look at Pearlman’s Closeouts because you can get some great deals on them right now (this is what I would do if, God Forbid, something happened to my ring and I wanted another asscher. I try to buy a close out Daniel K from Pearlman’s).

If that didn’t work then I would call GOG and give them a reasonable deadline (I would consult them about what is reasonable) and a target spec (are you only looking at VS1 and above or is VS2 okay?).

If they couldn’t find me anything… then I’d probably call Mark at ERD or Bill at Pearlman’s. They have some sources and contacts that can find hard to find a stone… at least that is my impression from what I’ve seen on here. If you are frustrated at that point, you can consider just buying from an RA dealer (I think WF has a blurb about RA’s on their site that says to contact them if you are interested in RAs, I didn’t not know they were an authorized vendor, but… what do I know?!?) or a Daniel K dealer. I’d go with the Daniel K over an RA in the size you are looking at though; again personally, because the steps will be larger in a stone that size and the stone will have a chance of being larger (depth on RAs by design is deep). And because you can get some great deals on them right now on the Pearlman’s Closeouts site (this is what I would do if, God Forbid, something happened to my ring and I wanted another asscher. I would by a close out Daniel K from Pearlman’s).

 

[clop]

wow thanks so much Gypsy!!

My invitations just arrived - with my address misspelled. So I am trying not to be frantic as they were going to be mailed out this Friday.

Yes, I didn''t want to work with more than 1 vendor, as it would be redundant. GOG has been excellent, absolutely a pleasure, but I haven''t heard anything for a while - a little over a month. Then someone had success at Quest (I didn''t contact them), then jplouis'' tradeshop diamond called into ERD. When jplouis first received his diamond, the only info given was ERD, so I called and was transferred to Gary, who said he would help me look. Then the tradeshop tidbit was given, so I looked, and found the H VS1, and asked Gary to call it in if he thought it was worthwhile. I have looked at Pearlman''s, but while I do like the Daniel K settings, I would love a simple leon. While their prices for Daniel K are unbelievable and a super great deal, I didn''t think it would be worth it to buy a ring to have it reset. (If it is, let me know and I will do so!

)

ooh, I think the paper studio has responded. brb! Thanks so much for taking the time to write something so in depth! I really really appreciate it.

 

[clop]

How''s this?

This Daniel K three stone diamond engagement ring has a 1.50ct Asscher Cut Diamond HVS2, certified by GIA, set in handmade Platinum band. The Asscher side stones weight 0.66ct HVVS1 and 0.68ct HVS2, and are both certified by GIA. 2.84ct total weight. Size 6. Retails for $29,600
Price: $15,495.00

Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 6.24 x 6.08 x 4.75 mm
Carat Weight: 1.50
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS2
Proportions:
Depth: 78.1 %
Table: 58 %
Girdle: Slightly Thick
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

The dimensions seem small for this size?
I know this is a spectacular deal for Daniel K. I would most likely wear this for the time being, then reset as a solitaire, and pair of earrings. <- Would the latter be a complete waste? Also, will the H color be an issue? I searched around a little the side stones are ~ 2k each, the middle ranges from $7-9k. That adds up conservatively to 11-13k. Or sigh... am I to keep searching? I am not relishing that. There was another ring, with pave down the shank that was an alternative I looked into a while ago, but thought it a waste not to use the setting, which I didn''t particularly love. This 3 stone ring''s setting is simple/elegant, and is a bit more my taste.

Then again I''ve never tried on a three stone ring... maybe I will love it? A friend of mine has a multi-stone ring, which she initially was not fond of, but now says, "I can never go back to a solitaire.."?!

Thanks again for everyone''s input!

 

[Gypsy]

I love Daniel K... but that is one EXTREMELY and EXTRAORDINARILY deep stone. 78% depth!!! I mean it might be a lovely stone... but again, you are paying for a lot of stone you can''t see face up. Normally that stone should come with a discount because of the lose of spread, but as it is already discounted Daniel K... I don''t know. Spread is really a pet peeve of mine though, so I would pass. Even if it is a three stones and a Daniel K.

Hmm. You sound justifiably frustrated, and I can''t say I blame you.

As for an H in a step cut. You have to develop your color tolerances yourself. It would be okay for me though, especially in that size.
Pearlmans will send rings out on Memo to though so you can try them out and see if you want them. It''s a courtesy they extend to their customers to make them comfortable... but obviously its something you only want to request if you are seriously considering the piece.

 

[clop]

Thanks Gypsy! "that is one EXTREMELY and EXTRAORDINARILY deep stone" lol yes, I was hoping that that would translate to an extremely and extraordinarily pretty stone. I''m awaiting the certs for the side stones, and will consider if this is the ring for me. I wouldn''t want to inconvenience anyone etc to call in items I''m not set on purchasing etc.

"you are paying for a lot of stone you can''t see face up." Very true. I think at this point I''ve become almost a bit desperate/frustrated, and may be looking at items I would not have considered a few months ago. We are fine not having an ring for the wedding (in 2 months), but recently the fiance asked why I hadn''t found one yet...

In any case, thanks again to everyone for offering guidance & critiques!