Asscher diamond search

[skeletor8]

Ok, I am still messing with the local dealer, but I have started considering asschers from some of the online vendors as well. This one from WF intrigued me:

http://www.whiteflash.com/Asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1746851.htm

I like the proportions on this one, and the strong blue flourescence sounds interesting as well. I know this has been discussed a lot on these boards, and it sounds like it is a positive so long as it doesn''t muddy it up in sunlight.

I am also looking at a few others from WF:
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2305011.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2408691.htm

As well as from other vendors. Any opinions on these? I have GIA certs on the first one and a few others, although it looks like most of that information is contained in the links above.

 

[strmrdr]

first one you linked is interesting.
vvs2 kicks the price up a little but the strong blue kicks it down.
Would need to be called in for pictures first of course before deciding.


second one sounds like it might be cut by the cutter they get the kicken ones from if so its worth calling in.


third is too deep and not enough of a discount for it.. pass.

I would have the first 2 called in for pictures and opinions if the second one is from the right cutter.

 

[skeletor8]

Thank you for the opinion storm...how will we know if it is from the kicken cutter? Can you tell from the cert or would it require being brought in house?

I am probably going to have both of those stones brought in for further inspection.

Also, my local dealer got back to me finally with the EGL cert on their asscher. I attached the cert to this post.

So, any opinions on this stone? Should I go ahead and get it independently looked at? Or should I just forget it? I would be getting a pretty good price on this asscher, though I guess that is with the caveat that this is in fact a good stone (which I am not entirely sure of). Looking at it once, I thought it looked nice...but it was my first time looking at asschers and one of the first times I had every closely examined a diamond in general, so there you go.

 

[skeletor8]

Well, I am having the two WF stones brought in so I should have some images on Monday.

I would also still like an opinion on the EGL stone above if anyone has one...

 

[coda72]

Well, I know almost nothing about asschers, but it looks like the EGL one is an I color if I''m seeing it correctly. On that basis alone I would probably reject it. Fancy shapes tend to show color more, so I probably wouldn''t go lower than a G or H color for an asscher. But that''s just my opinion. Plus that EGL I could be a GIA J or K.

 

[strmrdr]

egl one: little off square, i color.
if he has it in stock its worth looking at but I wouldnt call it in.

 

[skeletor8]

I have looked at it and I thought it was pretty nice, but it was among the first 2 or 3 asschers I had ever seen. It was compared against a couple of other similar stones (meaning also EGL certified) that were H and maybe G in color and I didn''t perceive too much of a color difference. Once again, that was one of my first times viewing so it is possible that my eyes just aren''t yet attuned enough to see the differences, but that''s why I''m here.

I am wondering if I should get that one appraised or if I should wait and see how the WF ones turn out (that''s the strategy I am leaning towards). I would ideally like to have this thing wrapped up and in a ring (a temp. presentation setting if nothing else) by next Friday.

 

[skeletor8]

Got the pics in from WF for the 1.15 G asscher...any thoughts? The idealscope image shows two dark vertical lines that looked a little off, though they are at least symmetrically off. Also, looked maybe a little dark in the bottom middle section. I thought the 40x image looked pretty nice. Will have to wait on pictures of the 1.01 until tomorrow.

 

[skeletor8]

The IS image...

 

[skeletor8]

Sarin, for what it''s worth here...

 

[strmrdr]

with a 17+ percent crown which can be tricky to photograph there may be one area off other than that one area it looks kicken.
More pictures or a talk with someone looking at the diamond would be a good idea.
In the 40x picture the dark V area near the center is what to ask them about.
There is a good chance its tilt but the IS doesnt rule out a cut issue.
It is also a hair on the deep side id expect a discount on the price for the over 70% depth compared to other less deep diamonds.

 

[cymbrie]

Storm''s on the case....you''re in GOOD HANDS you may want to try GOG too I got my asscher from them and as storm says it''s kicken! Best of luck in your search!

 

[skeletor8]

They said on the phone that it was the angle at which it was photographed and that it was the background showing through that region making it appear to be dark. Here is an image with the 1.15 in a temp setting. It appears to me that the same type of effect is happening in this image, which, once again, I presume is the angle and not some large dark region in the stone? Also, the WF rep didn''t seem too eager to come down on the price, other than the standard wire transfer discount. I was assured that the blue flouressence was not a problem and that it was only making the stone appear whiter.

Anyways, the 1.01 H VS1 should be in sometime today, so I will post pics of that one up here as soon as I get them.

Thanks again for all opinions/assistance!!

 

[skeletor8]

Here is the 1.01 H VS1...too much black in the middle section of the IS? Some pretty pronounced windmills...I am more impressed with the 1.15...but then again I don''t know exactly what I am talking about...thoughts?

 

[skeletor8]

IS

 

[skeletor8]

Sarin

 

[Kaleigh]

Looks like the windmills are too fat but I''ll wait and see what Storm has to say.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 7/11/2006 5:30:37 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Looks like the windmills are too fat but I''ll wait and see what Storm has to say.

Oooh yeah. I agree, they look way fat. But well... storm is the resident expert.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/11/2006 12:29:35 PM
Author: skeletor8
They said on the phone that it was the angle at which it was photographed and that it was the background showing through that region making it appear to be dark. Here is an image with the 1.15 in a temp setting. It appears to me that the same type of effect is happening in this image, which, once again, I presume is the angle and not some large dark region in the stone? Also, the WF rep didn''t seem too eager to come down on the price, other than the standard wire transfer discount. I was assured that the blue flouressence was not a problem and that it was only making the stone appear whiter.

Anyways, the 1.01 H VS1 should be in sometime today, so I will post pics of that one up here as soon as I get them.

Thanks again for all opinions/assistance!!

its a miscut, its in all the images, the angles in that area are a bit off.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/11/2006 5:40:06 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 7/11/2006 5:30:37 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Looks like the windmills are too fat but I''ll wait and see what Storm has to say.

Oooh yeah. I agree, they look way fat. But well... storm is the resident expert.

agree, and there are other cut issues also.

To be honest im not real excited about either but the 1.15 is the better of the 2.
The question then becomes how eye visible is the cut issue with the 1.15 and are you better off keeping looking.
I would ask to have Brian take a look at it and ask him how symmetrical the pattern is near the center in diffused light.

 

[skeletor8]

So with regards to the 1.15, you are referring to this area in the middle right (boxed in yellow)? What about these lines on either side (boxed in green)? Do those also indicate a miscut? Is this stone still potentially worth pursuing if they adjust the price? Or should I move on? The rest of the stone looks really nice to me (from the images anyways), but I don''t know if that one area in the middle will really stand out.

What about the H 1.01? It doesn''t look too great to me...

 

[strmrdr]

the areas you circled in green are normal and are fine in the 40x picture the area im concenred about is circled here.
Its the same area you marked on the IS image and shows up in both pictures.

 

[strmrdr]

the 1.01 isnt in the running its pretty much a woofer.

 

[KtIceRN]

Just my quick 2 cents.....
I just went through the same situation. I had two stones brought in by WF. I posted them on here and they did not get rave reviews...I was at a loss...I thought I wanted a worthy asscher. So I did what I think you should do. I talked to Brian. He is a real diamond expert. Listen to what he has to say about the stones and if you want have him send you the one you like. Look at it yourself. See if you like it. You are the one who is going to be looking at it for the rest of your life not anyone else. Numbers are just that numbers a guideline. Brian''s eyes are expert. I had him send me a 0.91 F VS1 that I was told was no good and to pass on and I absolutely love it. It does not have a dark center like I was told, and it has amazing sparkle. I brought it to my local jeweler and he was very impressed at what a great stone it is. So do yourself a favor and use Brians eyes and your own...you will be plesantly suprised at what is really worthy.

 

[KtIceRN]

WF Assher

 

[skeletor8]

I talked with Brian today and we discussed the images that were sent and why some can be interpreted in different ways. I expressed my opinions regarding what I was looking for in a stone and asked him some questions specifically about the 1.15 which I found to be more to my taste. He was very forthcoming and informative and I appreciated his time.

All this amounts to the fact that I am going to go with the 1.15 stone unless it shows up and doesn''t live up to my expectations. I will be more than happy to post some pictures once I get it in.

I also received some interestingly opposing views on flouressence. Just as a foreward to this, in my situation, I actually find the flouressence intriguing and don''t mind if my diamond deviates from the "traditional diamond standard" as long as it is beautiful and not a piece of crap ( I have a greaat need to not feel like I am getting screwed). When talking with Brian, I was told that a very small percentage of diamonds contain flouressence (compared to the market as a whole) and that mine would be more unique. He said the flour works to this stone''s advantage and makes the G stone look more like an E (and that there was no murkiness).

When talking to my local dealer person that I am still in contact with, I was told flour was almost always a negative in any stone above a J and that I should know better and that if that is what I am looking for that there are tons of stones with that particular feature out there. My BS detector just about went off the charts at that statement...was my BS detector right?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/12/2006 7:05:29 PM
Author: skeletor8
When talking to my local dealer person that I am still in contact with, I was told flour was almost always a negative in any stone above a J and that I should know better and that if that is what I am looking for that there are tons of stones with that particular feature out there. My BS detector just about went off the charts at that statement...was my BS detector right?

The trade considers it a minus mainly due to fraud years ago so its not total BS.
I like it even in a D and so do many others as long as the stone is properly graded without UV light.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/12/2006 5:12:21 PM
Author: KtIceRN
WF Assher

kewl ya love it, id reject it and the picture there shows why. 2 of the culet facets are at bad angles and there is practically no light return dead center.
That's good enough for you then congrates!!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/13/2006 1:55:32 AM
Author: strmrdr
The trade considers it a minus mainly due to fraud years ago so its not total BS.

I am curious as to the source of this statement.

Up until the investment craze in the late 70''s blue fluorescence was considered a plus and a stone that had it more often than not sold for a premium of up to 10%.

Today it is considered a plus in lower colored stones and an negative only in the highest grades, (assuming it is not an overblue).

What is the fraud that you refer to?

Wink

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 7/13/2006 2:02:07 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/12/2006 5:12:21 PM
Author: KtIceRN
WF Assher

kewl ya love it, id reject it and the picture there shows why. 2 of the culet facets are at bad angles and there is practically no light return dead center.
That''s good enough for you then congrates!!

Storm,

May I tell you that some level of modesty would suit you better.

I know that you have been a fan of Asschers for a long time already, and that you have always paid attention to any detail that you could get to know about these stones, while other consumers were struggling to understand ''simple'' rounds.

But it is not because you always have an opinion about Asschers, that your opinion is right.

I honestly think that you reached the point where you have kept exhibiting your limited knowledge, without anyone attacking it, and that you have started to believe that you truly are ''the king of Asschers''. And honestly, we professionals have given you this stage, because we ourselves are struggling to understand the Asscher-beast, to see what makes it tick, and what doesn''t. And remember, we need to know before we cut it, not judging the result afterwards.

As such, may I personally ask you to show some more modesty in future? Honestly, your status in Asschers is over-rated, and it is best that you realise this.

I do hope that you take this friendly advice as it is, just friendly advice. It is not my intention to de-grade you, or to speak down on you. You are a very valuable contributor on this forum, and I am amazed by the energy that you put in here. Just your over-confident position when it comes down to Asschers disturbs me, from a professional point of view.

Just an opinion of a friend,