ASET on H&A round, help

[joshua1745]

here are the aset actual and gemcalc of a H&A round G-VS2 1.23ct I placed on hold. Any thoughts?

 

[joshua1745]

Here is the lightscope and diamcalc aset. What is the ASET telling me the lightscope isnt?

 

[belle]

aset is very new (and it looks promising) but until some standardization in set up and photography techniques are established, there won''t be too many here that can help you with interpreting the image.
i will say that the stone seems to have some nice symmetry

 

[strmrdr]

The actual aset image is telling me that 1/2 the pavilian facets are under 40.76 and half are over.
red/green split.

The generated aset the solid green in the center is telling me the 40.7 average was used to generate it.

The lightscope image and the aset are both telling me this diamond has high light return and nice arrows.

The sarin data and the b-scope are telling me im reading it right.

The sarin data shows the pavilian range to be a little wide but it works.

Nice diamond.

 

[Kaleigh]

Storm,
Can you put that in english, kidding. This stuff is so over my head, but good job. I have some catching up to do as this is so new.

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s a nice looking rock. The lightscope image is more useful than the ASET photo because it’s a more standardized thing. It is reasonably possible to compare this to other lightscope images with some confidence that they were taken using similar equipment and techniques. For this reason, I count the GOG watermark as a terribly important piece of your image. The same cannot be said about the ASET photo so, although it’s a darned nice picture, I wouldn’t recommend making any conclusions from it. Not even the one about the green/red dot that Storm is making. The placement of the stone in the cone and the leveling while the photo is being taken will affect this by several percent. 40.76° (plus or minus 2°) isn’t really all that useful a tidbit of information. I think the diamcalc generated ASET image is more useful but there isn’t much information out there about analyzing them. It’s effectively a graphic way of displaying Sairn/OGI data for the benefit of more visually oriented people who find a picture to be an easier way to examine data than a table. This certainly describes me and many others. I think this has some good potential but it’s not there yet.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

I wanted to echo something Neil said at this point if it hadnt been the sarin data backing up the ASET I wouldnt have mentioned it.
He is currect in saying that putting too much into it right now is a mistake.
You have to include all the information available not just one part of it when considering a diamond.
Right now ASET is an interesting toy except for those at AGS and a handful of others.
Once the tutorials get out it and the desktop model is available it will be more useful but never the the final word.

 

[WinkHPD]

Hmm,

I am not finding any Sarin data but it is not important to me in telling you what I see.

I see a stone that has a great deal of red light returning to the eye. This important as the light entering from the angles of 45 degrees to 75 degrees (red light) is generally stronger light than the usually reflected light coming into the stone from 0 degrees to 45 degrees (Green light).

The difference in the stength of the light provides some contrast which contributes to the oveall beauty of the stone.

The stone also has strong contrast which is shown in the blue light that is entering the stone from 75 degrees to 90 degrees, a cone of 30 degrees that represents the obscuration caused by the head shadow of the viewer. This well distirbuted pattern of contrast is CRUCIAL to the beauty of the stone as it provides the "on/off" SPARKLE as the stone moves no matter how minutely. If there were no contrast in the stone and the stone reflected light over 100% of the surface at an even rate, then you might as well put little round mirrors in your rings, which while having 100% light return would also be VERY boring. It is the contrast, and the strong flashes of light that give the stone its beauty.

What your aset pictures tells me, and should also be telling you, is that this is one honking beauty of a stone. No numbers needed, no mathmeticians need apply. This is a wonderful tool for telling you not only the pattern displayed by your stone, but where the light seen in the stone is coming from. You want your stone to have large quantities of red light, a well distributed pattern of dark contrast as shown by the blue light, and minimal but present quantities of green light with little to no black or white light depending on whether the background of the picture was shot with white or black. In the aset shown, I suspect it was the hand held aset with a black background which is dark enough that the blue actually looks black.

My desktop ASET arrived Friday, and I have not had time to play with it yet, but soon there will be far more pictures available for you to look at from many different people. This is a TOOL, not a TOY and it tells you a LOT about the stone so that even if numbers make your head hurt you can understand, and explain. why one stone is more beautiful than another. It is FAR more CONSUMER friendly than any of the number tools.

Wink

 

[Rhino]

Wink,

Very excellently and eloquently put. I almost thought I was listening to Pete there for a moment.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Nice image.

I would echo what the other experts have contributed. Neil is correct about the reliability of an understood red reflector setup over ASET at this time. ASET shots are neat to look at - and we can make some tentative analysis - but the ideal-scope (and similar) is more understood. With that said, Wink's assertations here matched the gist of what I would offer.

Date: 9/6/2005 12:40:41 PM
Author: Wink

What your aset pictures tells me, and should also be telling you, is that this is one honking beauty of a stone. No numbers needed, no mathmeticians need apply. This is a wonderful tool for telling you not only the pattern displayed by your stone, but where the light seen in the stone is coming from. You want your stone to have large quantities of red light, a well distributed pattern of dark contrast as shown by the blue light, and minimal but present quantities of green light with little to no black or white light depending on whether the background of the picture was shot with white or black.

Nice images.

 

[strmrdr]

Howdy Wink the sarin data is on the gog webpage for that diamond.
Your one of the handful of others I mentioned who has been taught how to use it so it is a tool for you.
For most consumers until we get more info its a toy, something to play with.
When we get the info it will be a tool.

 

[joshua1745]

Thanks for all the incredible input.
here''s the sarin data:

1.232ct
dia 6.96 (6.95-6.9
depth 60.7%
table 56.5%
crown angle 34.9% (35.1 - 34.
pav angle 40.7%
pav depth 42.9%
culet 0.2%

theres no range listed for the pav angle. When you say the pav range might be large is that an assumption b/c we are very close to the red/green border on the ASET picture?

 

[joshua1745]

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/6/2005 2:53:09 PM
Author: joshua1745
Thanks for all the incredible input.

here''s the sarin data:


1.232ct

dia 6.96 (6.95-6.9

depth 60.7%

table 56.5%

crown angle 34.9% (35.1 - 34.

pav angle 40.7%

pav depth 42.9%

culet 0.2%


theres no range listed for the pav angle. When you say the pav range might be large is that an assumption b/c we are very close to the red/green border on the ASET picture?

When you click on the diavision picture/link and open the srn file in the sarin viewer it tells you the rest of the sarin data.
Including each of the pavilian facets.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/6/2005 1:01:57 PM
Author: Rhino
Wink,

Very excellently and eloquently put. I almost thought I was listening to Pete there for a moment.

Thanks! Is that stone as honking gorgeous as I think it is?

Wink

 

[Rhino]

LOL... absolutely Winkster.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/6/2005 1:02:25 PM
Author: strmrdr
Howdy Wink the sarin data is on the gog webpage for that diamond.
Your one of the handful of others I mentioned who has been taught how to use it so it is a tool for you.
For most consumers until we get more info its a toy, something to play with.
When we get the info it will be a tool.

You just got 90 - 95% of what I got, only in less time. We spent several hours to learn that:

A. The strongest light to hit a diamond comes primarily from 45% to 75% as we live in a primarily top lit world. It is represented by red light.

B. The light from 45% to 0% is mostly indirect (reflected from walls etc) or other light that is generally not nearly as strong as the direct light from above. (Something about cosign squared in there somewhere, but beats the heck out of me where). This provides secondary lighting and some contrast with the brighter light coming from above. It is represented by green light.

C. The dark blue light from 75% to 90% represents the head shadow, or the obscuration caused by the observer of the diamond.

D. It takes a mix of the three to create a beautiful diamond, and the green can be very little to moderate in quantity. Too much green means there will not be a lot of strong white light coming back out the top of that diamond.

E. Leakage, as described by AGS, an area not reflecting light from the angle at which the stone is being observed, will be in either black or white, depending on the background of the stone at the time the picture is taken. You want as little of this to none of this as possible.

That is basically it.

The true beauty, and the value for the average consumer, IS its simplicity. No long formulae or complicated combinations of angles to learn and remember. One look at the ASET and Voila! You know not only IF the diamond is going to be beautiful, but also, with only a little effort, why or why not. A stone that is very red but with a lump of dark blue covering the table will be a fairly lifeless looking stone in the center, because the contrast pattern is all in a lump making the whole center part of the stone look dead instead of nicely patterned and providing an optimum of on/off to the eye of the viewer.

I have used it, even in the hand held version to quickly explain VERY complex concepts to my clients. They love it as it is quick, and easy to understand. I think that the need for some of you to always analyze to the nth degree will always be there, but this is a tool to show, quickly, the RESULTS of the cutter''s work. For those who want to analyze and show why the results are the way they are there will always be the Sarin and the OGI and the Helium. But for those of us interested in just knowing how the cutter did, there will be the ASET. It will not tell us the difference between an AGS 0 and an AGS 1 or 2, but it will sure tell us whether or not the stone is a beauty.

It will offer to the casual client and to the student alike a tool to tell them where the light is coming from, whether it is an appropriate mix of red and blue and thus whether or not it is going to sparkle. It will NOT require that the diamond exhibit an arrows pattern to be beautiful, and this will identify many of the stones that while being less than AGS 0 or H&A are still VERY attractive because of their mix of red and blue and green. It will easily identify those stones which should be passed on, regardless that they may have "ideal" proportions. If fact one of the reasons that so many of the previously accepted "steep and deep" combinations were removed from the AGS Ideal grade was because of what was shown by the ASET to be clearly inferior performance.

It is the paragon of simplicity, and yet delivers incredibly complex information all at once. I predict a VERY active use for the ASET tool and I am extremely greatful to the AGS for bringing it to the market.

Wink

 

[Rhino]

Amen to that. Since we received the desktop I have hardly had time to experiment to the degree I''d like. I''m wondering how the shallow combinations will appear in it and also how AGS will grade em. The new Gem Advisor will have an ASET view in it too.

 

[Serg]

Date: 9/7/2005 12:01:29 AM
Author: Rhino
Amen to that. Since we received the desktop I have hardly had time to experiment to the degree I''d like. I''m wondering how the shallow combinations will appear in it and also how AGS will grade em. The new Gem Advisor will have an ASET view in it too.

Rhino,

Why will?

Gem Adviser 1.4 has ASET black 30 .

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/7/2005 2:59:15 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 9/7/2005 12:01:29 AM
Author: Rhino
Amen to that. Since we received the desktop I have hardly had time to experiment to the degree I''d like. I''m wondering how the shallow combinations will appear in it and also how AGS will grade em. The new Gem Advisor will have an ASET view in it too.

Rhino,

Why will?

Gem Adviser 1.4 has ASET black 30 .

Oh... is the new Gem Advisor 1.4 with ASET view public domain now? I didn''t know the general public could get it now. If so, awesome. Perhaps a link should be provided.

 

[Serg]

Date: 9/7/2005 12:06:59 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 9/7/2005 2:59:15 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 9/7/2005 12:01:29 AM
Author: Rhino
Amen to that. Since we received the desktop I have hardly had time to experiment to the degree I''d like. I''m wondering how the shallow combinations will appear in it and also how AGS will grade em. The new Gem Advisor will have an ASET view in it too.

Rhino,

Why will?

Gem Adviser 1.4 has ASET black 30 .

Oh... is the new Gem Advisor 1.4 with ASET view public domain now? I didn''t know the general public could get it now. If so, awesome. Perhaps a link should be provided.

http://www.octonus.com/oct/products/3dcalc/adviser/gemadviser_1-4.phtml
http://www.octonus.com/oct/download/adviser_demo_down.phtml