As easy as pie? Nope! Need some baking help here...

[Independent Gal]

I used to bake a lot, and had a knack for cakes, cookies and pies. My cookies and cakes are still yummy (if I do say so myself) but I stopped making pies for a few years, and when I tried again almost a year ago, my crust was such a disaster that I haven''t baked one since.

Now I''ve foolishly gone and promised an apple pie for a dinner at FI''s senior colleague''s place this weekend, so I need help, ladies!

Tips! Tips! Anyone got fail-proof pastry tricks? Indispensible magic tools?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Are you wanting to make your own pastry--and need a recipie? Or are you happy to use the premade e.g. *Tenderflake* pastry and want filling and preparation tips?

cheers--Sharon

 

[TravelingGal]

I''m not a baker, but everything I''ve read is use cold cold cold ingredients for crust. Ice cold water and chilled (put in the freezer for a bit) butter...

 

[Independent Gal]

Cold Cold Cold. I think I''ll even put my tools in the freezer this time.

Orrrrr... I could go Sharon''s root and CHEAT! Haha. That would make the pastry easy to make, wouldn''t it. Hmmm.. I''m tempted. It''s not a half bad idea!

I''ve never tried the pre-mades. Are they really good, or do they taste, I dunno, plasticy-pre-made or something?

 

[somethingshiny]

okay, here's my crust. (my grandma's, my mom's, now mine)

2/3 C shortening
2 C flour
5-6 T ice water

combine the flour and shortening first (I prefer butter over crisco).
add the ice water (literally ice cubes in the water) a little at a time.
You may need to stop at 5 tablespoons if you're having a more humid day. You'll recognize when it looks right since you've baked before.

This is enough for one pie top and bottom.

Also, if you have a marble rolling pin, use it! Stick it in the fridge so it stays very cold during roll out. If you're hands tend to get warm quickly, keep a can of cold soda or something handy to wrap your hands around to cool them off.


edit- try not to re-roll the crust. If you have to make any changes, let the dough rest first. use water on fingertips to mend tears.

 

[Miranda]

I always have good luck with this oil pastry crust for pies, but, first I have a very sad pie story. I made the most magnificent, most beautiful apple pie to take to my aunt''s one Thanksgiving. The crust was flaky yet tender and you know what a challenge that can be! DH put it on the top of the car, helped DS into his car seat and off we drove...With the pie on the top of the car. Gone were my very best pie and my very favorite pie plate! I am still mad about it and DH is still very sorry as apple pie is one fo his favorite things in the world. haha! Enough sob story!

2 1/4 c all purpose flour
1/4 tsp salt
1/2 c cooking oil
1/3 c cold milk

Stir together flour and salt. Pour oil and milk into measuring cup (do not stir); add all at once to flour mixture. Stir lightly with a fork. Form into 2 balls; flatten slightly with hands.

Cut waxed paper into four 12 inch squares. Place each ball of dough between 2 squares of paper. Roll each ball of dough into a circle to edges of the paper. (Dampen work surface to prevent paper from slipping.)

Peel off top paper and fit dough, paper side up, into 9-inch pie plate. Remove paper and fill with your choice of ingredients. Bake according to your recipe.

 

[Mara]

i''d get a premade crust for sure...that is the hardest part!

 

[door knob solitaire]

Mirandas recipe is my fool proof one as well. (trick keep liquids separate but add liquids all at once. I use a pastry cutter and get it to look like cornmeal before I get my mitts on it!)

When I make whole wheat...it usually flops. It is still usable just not as easy to work with. So I have learned to cheat with that...I get them frozen in a pair at Whole Foods, Akins, etc. My secret...shhhh, let's keep this between just YOU AND ME I have a baking reputation don't you know...is allow it to thaw and then rework the edge so it is not machine decorated. Yeah, I know ...I am brilliant.

On an apple pie when I use a solid top crust, I have a apple WS cutter and I cut five little apples out of the crust and get these little apple vents. I have a little tear shaped one too...and it looks like apple seed...that makes cute apple top vents. If you have thought ahead on your purchase of pre made ready crust...or your Miranda recipe...you can make more crust and actually cut shapes out of extra dough and place them on top and bake them. It is always a crowd pleaser. In the fall I have oak leaves and acorns...and I make this vine springs to compliment them.

When time is no issue, lattice the top and braid the edges. Apple pie does well with a lattice top as the filling isn't a deep crimson or blue color and when it bleeds onto the lattice edge it doesn't do as much damage to the intricate work-as the other colors of pies do. If you don't have time to braid...just use a fork tine edge to seal...and imprint and then you can also add a pinch...pinch against a pointed object like a spoon handle...or flatware handle. I have one piece that I use specifically for pie crust. It is shaped similar to a rounded 'V". Don't stop on one trip around...keep working it until you get a uniform perfection. You need a lip to help hold in the "Nectar".

Before you bake brush an egg wash on the crust. This will make it shiny and golden. If you have any coarse sugar sprinkle it with that too!

Many think it is as easy as apple pie...but to me the apple is the most difficult to master. The apple you choose will make you or break you. My preference is a tart crisp apple. Cut very very uniformly-so it cooks uniformly. This is the season approaching for apples...at least where I live...but don't just grab a red delicious as you are used to in eating. RD's aren't pie royalty.

Cinnamon, Brown sugar, vanilla, maple flavoring, butter, caramel...can all be added for secret weapons. My mother uses red hot candies for her secret ingredient apple pie weapon. (Secret weapon makes your recipe a notch above the ordinary.) Mothers pies go to senior citizen events. I think they still think jello is a food...so the red hot candies are thrilling to the jello crowd!! If you are working a similar crowd...RED HOTS!

if not...try some maple syrup...or make up your own secret.

Mmmmm I can smell-a-vision. Don't fret. Just put your heart into it...as you said you do with your other baking!

DKS

 

[door knob solitaire]

If you want a pattern top but are too intimated by the work involved...the kitchen wares stores now have a "Cookie Cutter" thing just for pie tops. You roll out the crust...and stamp it with this cutter gizmo. It leaves little square hole openings and you get a fool proof ornamental pie top with little or no effort.

Oh, if you do a crust with more detail...such as braided...etc, buy or make a double recipe. Lattice work needs long strips to work efficiently.

Keep your kitchen as cool as possible when working with pastry. If you have marble...use it.

I will shutty uppy now.

I said...just for now!! Don't celebrate so fast!

DKS

 

[Lorelei]

I enjoy making pastry and have done so for many years so the only thing I would suggest to add on top of the great tips already given, is to put your pastry pre- rolled into a bag in the refrigerator for about half an hour before rolling out. This helps to stop cracking and shrinking and all the other horrid little pastry sins that can occur!

You can also freeze your shortening then grate it into the flour before rubbing in - COLD COLD COLD is a good motto.

 

[crown1]

this was given to me by a friend many years ago. she got it from a relative who worked in an old fashioned mom and pop bakery. i have used and loved it many times. unfortunately, i have not made a pie for an very long time.

2 cups flour

dash salt

1 1/2 cups crisco

1/2 cup cold water

measure crisco by 1/2 cups. mix will be tacky. bake at 425 degrees. makes 2 crusts.

 

[Jaders731]

IG -

I am going to second the "pre-made" crust... as much as that makes me cringe, I must admit that pre made crusts have come A LONG way in the years past...

The Pilsbury frozen crust (used to be Pet-ritz, I believe Pilsbury bought them out) is fantastic.. I did 15 pumpkin pies for a restaurant last Thanksgiving.. and everyone RAVED about them.. LOL.. for your apple pie just buy two.. use one in the pan as the bottom, and then remove the decorative edge from the second.. and turn upside down on the original after you fill it!

Also, another idea, is that Betty Crocker makes a bag mix (in the cake mix aisle) that you can mix up and roll out and decorate at your choosing...

And Pilsbury makes the refrigerated dough that is already in circle form... which is yummy as well.. definitely improved...

It pains me to give you this advice as a baker.. LOL.. but honestly.. pastry crust is HARD to do.. I say concentrate on your filling.. wow your friends with that.. and play around with the pastry dough when you have a little time on your hands...

hope that helps...

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Another thing you might want to consider is doing a 1 crust apple pie with a apple crisp top. It''s the best of both worlds, you get apple pie AND apple crisp. I like to use the pillsbury pre-made crusts as they have a decent flavor and texture once baked. Now, I''m a this and that kinda baker-the worst kind! So these are just approximations.

My apple mixture is as follows:

I don''t know how many apples I use, I never count them and they''re always different sizes. I peel and slice them into an empty pie plate and stop once it''s full. Then I dump them into a mixing bowl and add:

1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup dark brown sugar-packed
1/4 tsp salt
1 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp cream of tartar ( I have no idea what this is or why it''s added but my mom always added it).
dash of allspice
1 tablespoonful of flour or cornstarch (to thicken juices-you can also use tapioca)

mix all together and lay apples into piecrust. Top with "pats" of butter

For top "crisp" crust:

1-1/2 cups rolled oats-NOT quick cook! (I add more oats if the mixture is too tacky after I mix it)
1/4 cup flour
1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp vanilla
1/4 cup sugar
a few shakes of cinnamon
1 shake of nutmeg
6 tablespoons of butter
handful of chopped walnuts or pecans (optional)

Mix dry ingredients in a bown until incorporated
Add vanilla
add cold butter (cut up)
Use your hands (clean and without diamonds please) to work the butter into the dry ingredients until it''s crumbly and the butter is fully incorporated. It should not be sticky. If it is, add some more oats.
Sprinkle on top of the pie-sparingly or to cover entire top

Bake per standard pie temp and time.

 

[Jas12]

I do a TON of baking, but must admit that I find pie crusts the most frustrating by far.

My mom and grandmother make absolutely fantastic flaky melt in your mouth pastry (my grandmother sells pies each day in a family business) they use the old pastry recipe in the JOY of cooking.....tonight i''ll try to post it (i don;t have the book at work hehe)

However, i think it is all ''touch'' b/c i use the same recipe with less success....
some general tips:
do NOT overwork the dough (it becomes tough)
roll it quite thin--thick crust tastes icky as well

good luck

 

[laine]

Another vote for the premade here. Not the frozen stuff, but the pillsbury crust from the refrigerated section. It comes already cut in a circle, but rolled up, and you just roll it out into a pan. You get to use your own pie pan, so it looks homemade and really tastes just as good. My mom gave up on making crust years ago when she realized these were as good or better and way easier.

ETA: the bottom crust always comes out really gooey--I don't know if thats because of the premade crust, or if its an apple pie standard sort of thing. My mom once used some trick from Martha Stewart to have a more crispy bottom crust, but I prefer it gooey, so she stopped. Just something to think about if you want the bottom crust crispy--you might have to do something other than just dump in the apples.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/26/2007 3:07:11 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
When I make whole wheat...it usually flops. It is still usable just not as easy to work with. So I have learned to cheat with that...I get them frozen in a pair at Whole Foods, Akins, etc. My secret...shhhh, let''s keep this between just YOU AND ME I have a baking reputation don''t you know...is allow it to thaw and then rework the edge so it is not machine decorated. Yeah, I know ...I am brilliant.

CHEATER!!!!


I love it.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/25/2007 11:38:28 PM
Author: Mara
i''d get a premade crust for sure...that is the hardest part!

yep, me too.

 

[door knob solitaire]

but, first I have a very sad pie story.

Me too Miranda...first Tgiving with his family I made a chocolate cream 8 white Meringue pie (mile high). Put it in the car seat...some gooomer pulled out in front of me...I slammed on the brakes...and my dash got my pie right in the kisser!

Moral to the story...Seat belts save lives...and pies...and baking reputations. That part of the family never warmed up to me. I blame it on the pie fiasco. Surely...it is not my personality!! (yeh right)

DKS

GO WITH THE PREMADE ready to roll and get on with your life! Another vote for that version. You can still do creative things with the crusts...to make it your own!!

 

[Mara]

Date: 9/26/2007 9:26:42 AM
Author: laine
Another vote for the premade here. Not the frozen stuff, but the pillsbury crust from the refrigerated section. It comes already cut in a circle, but rolled up, and you just roll it out into a pan. You get to use your own pie pan, so it looks homemade and really tastes just as good. My mom gave up on making crust years ago when she realized these were as good or better and way easier.

This is what I used last year for a healthy version pumpkin pie at Thxgiving and it came out REALLY yummy!

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks so much for the recipes and suggestions! My mouth is watering.

I''m giving the Pillsbury pre-made a try. But shhhhhh... don''t tell! My grammy would disown me.

I''ll let y''all know how it turns out!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Good idea IG--test run before the real meal. I am lucky my sister or Mom makes me pastry and gives it to me in pieces and I freeze it until I need it. Usually they use shorteding, but I think my Mom told me recently of a sweet (butter) pastry that was soo easy and she did it in the FP.

But I''ll be honest, when I don''t have the homemade stuff, I use the tenderflake ready made in the pie aluminum plates, warm to room temp, then take it out of the plates they supply and roll it out myself into my own pie plate. Usually you need two of those commercial premade pies for one of my pyrex pie plates.

And I often partially cook it before (prick the bottom to let the air out) and then put the filling in to cook the rest. Nuthin like a soggy doughy bottom to turn ya off...

cheers--Sharon

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

My Mom just called so I asked her for that new yummy pastry recipie--from the Canadian Living or Chatalaine website. HIgh fat warning--but she said it was great.

2 c. AP flour
1 c. cold butter, cubed
1/2 c. regular sour cream
1 egg yolk
1/2 tsp. salt.

Combine dry ingredients and place in food processor. Add remaining ingredients and process until ball forms. Remove, wrap, and refridgerate for at least one hour. Makes enough for one pie.

Think I''ll try it next week for Thanksgiving.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Allisonfaye]

I just started making pies recently and I have gotten really good at the crusts (if I do say so myself). I make cherry pies.

This is Paula''s Dean''s crust for a two crust pie:

2/3 cup shortening (NOT BUTTER)
2 cups sifted flour
1 teaspoon salt
6.5 tablespoons water (she says 5-7 but I found 6.5 works best

Sift salt and flour together. Using pastry blender, mix up with shortening. Make sure you pack the shortening tightly in your measuring cup. I think this is what I did last time and it was my best ever crust.
Mix with the pastry blender until the balls are peas sized.

Add 1 tablespoon iced water at a time and toss it back and forth gently with a fork. The dough will still be crumbly. You want it this way. With your hands, make a small mound with slighter over half the dough. Maybe about 60% of it. Roll it out on a parchment paper surface that you have sprinkled a little flour on. Also sprinkle it on the rolling pin. Roll so that the you move the rolling pin about a quarter turn counterclockwise each time. (You can also move your paper. If you roll a crack, roll back the opposite direction to repair. Roll quickly so it will be easier to get off the parchment paper.I see some recipes that call for chilling it but I have never needed to do that. Roll it out til it is about 1/8" inch think and quickly invert over a lightly greased pie plate. Stab a few times with a fork. Then fill your pie and repeat the process for the top crust. Cut around the border any excess and pinch together edges. Using your finger and thumb pinch together all the way around and vent with a knife in a star pattern. Pie crusts are not hard to make. I was intimidated by it for so long and now I really enjoy it. I was making really good ones by the second or third time. Good luck!

 

[anchor31]

I''m pretty much the unofficial "most accomplished baker" in the family, and I use pre-made.

I never even tried to make crust! Can''t remember the brand I use though, it''s really good.

 

[AGBF]

In Connecticut I used to use a pre-made, frozen pie crust brand called "Oronoque Orchards", which was truly wonderful and available (if I remember correctly) in either standard or deep dish varities. I have not looked for the brand where I live now (Virginia), but I doubt it is available here.

I bought a book, Pie Every Day with the admirable intention of learning to make delicious pie crusts, but somehow I never got around to it. I would be more likely to try an exotic crust, something with cream cheese and coconut for example, than to work on perfecting my skills with a flour and crisco or flour and lard pie crust. I wish I were more of the simple baker my grandmother was. Being a good baker was obviously what I had in mind when I bought a book on pie-making. Right now I am not even using my bread machine, however, and I used to make bread often before there were bread machines!

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/2/2007 3:58:05 AM
Author: AGBF
In Connecticut I used to use a pre-made, frozen pie crust brand called 'Oronoque Orchards', which was truly wonderful and available (if I remember correctly) in either standard or deep dish varities.

First, let me say: please read "varieties" for "varities" above. It kills me to be unable to edit out typos when I see them upon a later reading after the half hour limit on editing a posting has expired!

Second, I wanted to share that this thread got me started on reading Pie Every Day, which is by Pat Willard, and is really a wonderful, very readable book! Ms. Willard tells the story of how she came to bake pies and she also tells the story of pies in this country, making their history sound so dreadful that it would give courage to any hesitant baker!

Here is an excerpt from her book:

"People did not used to be so picky about how their crusts came out. When the first European settlers came to America, the pie recipes they brought with them called for crusts that acted as cooking pots. As dense and tasty as baked clay, the pastry that surrounded the first American pies was broken apart to get at what was inside. If it could be eaten at all, it was because the gravy and juices on the interior had softened it until it could be used like a biscuit to sop up the remains. In 1758, Dr. Acrelius, a Swedish parson visiting America, wrote back to his family that he had been served an abundance of apple pie whose crust 'is not broken if a wagon wheel goes over it'."

I plan to read the rest of Pie Every Day just for fun and I recommend it; Ms. Willard is an excellent storyteller and yet the book is incredibly practical. As I read about fights between women over what shortening was best to use in a pie crust, I also learned what properties each shortening gave to a crust! What a find!


Deborah

 

[partgypsy]

Independent gal, if you are willing to wait, I''ll post an amazing crust/apple pie recipe tonight. It''s from my husband''s side of family; his mom has won ribbons with this recipe (Gertie Berger''s apple pie recipe). It''s fool proof and SO GOOD! I didn''t read through all the posts, but I think people have not mentioned a special ingredient for the crust....

 

[partgypsy]

Never fail pie crust (makes 2 top crusted pies)

4 cups flour
1 1/1-3/4 cups crisco
1 T sugar
1 t salt
1 egg
1 T (apple cider) vinegar
1/2 cup water

Combine flour, sugar and salt in mixing bowl, cut in half of shortening with pastry cutter, cut in remainder until mixture turns to size of peas. Combine water, egg and vinegar in small bowl. Add to flour mixture, stir with fork until moistened (don''t overwork). Shape dough into, chill. Divide dough into 4 parts. Roll each portion on lightly floured surface to a circle, place in bottom of 10 " pie plate.


For filling for 2 pies, about
15,16 medium apples, peeled and cut into slices,
1 cup sugar
1/3 cup flour
1 t nutmeg
1 t cinnamon
dash salt.
2 T butter

Combine all ingredients, divide in half. Put half into each pie, dot with 1T butter cut into pieces.
Cover with other pie circle, press together, cut off excess. Crimp crust. Use a knife to cut decorative holes or slits in top.
Good idea to cover crust edge with thin piece of foil but if do so remove during last 15 minutes. Place the pies on a cookie sheet.

Preheat oven to 425, bake 40-60 minutes until crust is golden and juice bubbles through slits in top of pie.
Serve with ice cream or whole milk!

 

[partgypsy]

Oh yeah, and do NOT use red or golden delicious apples. The small firm apples work the best, like Jonathans and pippens. I usually use the apples that come in the big bags, they do not need to look pretty.

 

[Independent Gal]

PS and the Pillsbury doughboy saved my honour. Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone!

I ended up using a pillsbury pre-made bottom, which was fine but not 'WOW!' and then I used this recipe from Epicurious which a friend recommended. I just added a bit of cloves and some nutmeg and substituted oats for a third of the flour in the crumble topping. It was fabulous! Highly recommended.

Filling
3 1/4 pounds Granny Smith apples, peeled, cored, sliced 1/4 inch thick
1/3 cup sugar
2 tablespoons all purpose flour
2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
2 tablespoons unsalted butter, melted

Topping
1 cup all purpose flour
1/2 cup sugar
1/4 cup (packed) golden brown sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon salt
6 tablespoons chilled unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch cubes
Vanilla ice cream

Transfer crust to 9-inch-diameter glass pie dish. Trim overhang to 1/2 inch; turn edge under and crimp decoratively. Refrigerate while preparing filling and topping.
For filling: Mix all ingredients in large bowl to coat apples.
For topping: Blend first 5 ingredients in processor. Add chilled butter cubes; using on/off turns, cut in until mixture resembles wet sand.
Toss filling to redistribute juices; transfer to crust, mounding in center. Pack topping over and around apples. Bake pie on baking sheet until topping is golden, about 40 minutes (cover top with foil if browning too quickly). Reduce oven temperature to 350°F. Bake until apples in center are tender when pierced and filling is bubbling thickly at edges, about 45 minutes longer. Cool until warm, about 1 hour. Serve with ice cream.
Makes 8 servings.