Are any ELG Int'l offices better than others?

[elliemay]

I'm thinking (only thinking!) of selling my tranny and would like to get it graded. I know EGL is the lab for older stones and that ELG USA is preferred, but I would be limited to EGL Int'l since I live in England and don't want to send the stone back to the US. EGL certs are, of course, "loose", but I'm wondering if there's any perceived variance between the EGL Int'l labs -- is London more reliable than Paris, for example?

Also, if I get to the point of actually pricing the stone, it's correct to price it based on what I know I have (M VS1 based on Neil's ultra-thorough report!) versus what EGL Int'l says I have (likely J VVS1 ), right?

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Elliemay,
I disagree that EGL is the lab for older stones.
It's the lab for misgraded older stones....but anyone who wants a "real grade uses GIA- new stone or old.

IMO, an EGL report ( any EGL) is not of any help in selling a diamond- at least nothing like the advantage a GIA report will give you

 

[elliemay]

Thanks, David. My perception is that EGL seems to be where everyone send their older stones -- is there a reason for this?

I suppose I'll just use all of the info from Neil's appraisal should I decide to sell. As I say, I'm confident that it's an M VS1 and would price it as such. I was just under the impression that a certificate, even from EGL, would lend potential buyers peace of mind.

 

[Haven]

I'd send it to GIA. I have an OMB and sent it to GIA for grading because I want to know what it really is.

Even if most people who sell antique stones send them to EGL, the market still recognizes that equivalent EGL and GIA grades are valued differently, and prices stones accordingly.

 

[elliemay]

Blargh. I don't what to do. I don't want to send the stone overseas and don't anticipate being in the US for an more than a couple of weeks at a time for the next few years, so I'm sort of stuck with EGL in London or nothing, in terms of an "official" report. The stone has been appraised 3 times (US v. UK insurance rules) and has always come back as an M VS1, so I'm not really questioning what it is -- I just thought potential buyers might, I guess.

 

[ariel144]

There was a thread discussion somewhere on EGL grading for the sake of insurance claims for older stones. Don't recall the reasoning but maybe someone will post information on that aspect of antique stones. I believe it had something to do with the fact that GIA many times graded them as "Round Brilliant" and with the Polish and SYM. many times being GOOD/FAIR on older stones the insurance value with GIA would go way down. It was an aspect of older stones that many had never considered before in that thread.

Hopefully someone can address this issue because I can't recall the specifics.

Also I read somewhere on PS that in Europe that HRD was the "GIA" standard over there.

Also there is a seller in the UK on ebay...you might contact her and find out where she has her stones graded and why. Here is one of her listings that is graded:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-6-06ct-OLD-CUT-DIAMOND-SOLITAIRE-RING-PLATINUM-/120922035218?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_VintageFineJewellery_CA&hash=item1c2783d412#ht_2786wt_1413

Hope this helps.

 

[Haven]

I'm sorry, I read too quickly and didn't realize you weren't in the U.S. I think that changes things. Hopefully someone can chime in about the certs that are standard in Europe, or better yet, England. Sorry!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Here's what I suggest: Use Neil's appraisal as the selling tool.
One point that could be made for the use of EGL for older stones is that many of them are grades that ...well don't affect the price all that much.
IOW, the difference in price between similar carat size/clarity/cut diamonds in the M-N-O-P-Q-R-S-T range of colors is negligible- making the exact grade somewhat less important.
Personally, I still don't see that as a valid excuse for NOT using GIA- but in your case Elliemay- Neil's appraisal may ( hopefully) be sufficient for a buyer- especially if they are internet savvy and can research Neil independently..
Why do sellers use EGL on older stones?
Because not enough buyers complain.
With the increased value of diamonds overall- and especially older diamonds, there's simply no excuse not to use GIA from where I sit.

Elliemay, in your case, maybe you'll find a US buyer, and send it to GIA on the way to them- with money back guarantee. This way if they don;t like the grade- or the stone, at least you'll now have a valid GIA report

ETA: Ariel raised a few good points:
1) HRD- if you're in Belgium, maybe.
But there's really no comparison on the world diamond stage between GIA and HRD.
They do have their defenders, but I've seen too many bad cases with my own two eyes to trust HRD.
2) Complaints about GIA not getting the shape correct. I agree, this is a problem- however far less than a misgrade of color/clarity. OEC ( as termed by GIA) trade for the same price as rounds pretty muh anyway.
OMB's trade like "Fancy Shapes".
After all, a buyer can easily see if it's a Modern RBC, or some sort of tranny, or OEC.

 

[denverappraiser]

Lets start at the other end. Assume it’s an M/VS1.

That’s half (or more) of the issue but it’s not end. Now you need to sell it. To whom are you going to sell it? How are you going to market it? How are you going to convince THEM that it’s an M/VS1? If it’s a dealer, it’s easy. They’re going to grade it for themselves no matter what you show them short of a GIA, and maybe even then. That’s a vote for GIA or nothing. Given the logistical problems with GIA from the UK, that’s a vote for nothing. They can bid however they like and you can accept or not as you like. You're already well prepared to make an informed choice and that's what's going to happen anyway. The same holds if you’re going to consign it. Let the jeweler deal with what makes the best advertisements for their market. If they want a lab pedigree, let them secure it. You’ve got all you need. The tricky part is if you’re going to direct retail it yourself. This has at least as much to do with YOU as it does the diamond. Some buyers are going to rely on their own grading, some will rely on whatever you provide, some will want a GIA, some will want it graded by their own expert and some will be happy to rely on yours. In-person sales also go rather differently than online sales and this difference is important in deciding on the paperwork you want. You, in turn, get to design your campaign to cater to whoever you want and get paperwork that supports what you chose. This means more information about your marketing plans is required before you can come up with a thoughtful answer of what paperwork best supports that plan. It’s not always the same, and it’s not a gemological question.

By the way, thank you for the business.

 

[elliemay]

There was a thread discussion somewhere on EGL grading for the sake of insurance claims for older stones. Don't recall the reasoning but maybe someone will post information on that aspect of antique stones. I believe it had something to do with the fact that GIA many times graded them as "Round Brilliant" and with the Polish and SYM. many times being GOOD/FAIR on older stones the insurance value with GIA would go way down. It was an aspect of older stones that many had never considered before in that thread.

Hopefully someone can address this issue because I can't recall the specifics.

Also I read somewhere on PS that in Europe that HRD was the "GIA" standard over there.

Also there is a seller in the UK on ebay...you might contact her and find out where she has her stones graded and why. Here is one of her listings that is graded:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-6-06ct-OLD-CUT-DIAMOND-SOLITAIRE-RING-PLATINUM-/120922035218?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_VintageFineJewellery_CA&hash=item1c2783d412#ht_2786wt_1413

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Ariel -- I've emailed her to see how she gets her stones graded. She's got BEAUTIFUL stones....I might sell mine and end up with one of hers!

 

[elliemay]

Here's what I suggest: Use Neil's appraisal as the selling tool.
One point that could be made for the use of EGL for older stones is that many of them are grades that ...well don't affect the price all that much.
IOW, the difference in price between similar carat size/clarity/cut diamonds in the M-N-O-P-Q-R-S-T range of colors is negligible- making the exact grade somewhat less important.
Personally, I still don't see that as a valid excuse for NOT using GIA- but in your case Elliemay- Neil's appraisal may ( hopefully) be sufficient for a buyer- especially if they are internet savvy and can research Neil independently..
Why do sellers use EGL on older stones?
Because not enough buyers complain.
With the increased value of diamonds overall- and especially older diamonds, there's simply no excuse not to use GIA from where I sit.

Elliemay, in your case, maybe you'll find a US buyer, and send it to GIA on the way to them- with money back guarantee. This way if they don;t like the grade- or the stone, at least you'll now have a valid GIA report

ETA: Ariel raised a few good points:
1) HRD- if you're in Belgium, maybe.
But there's really no comparison on the world diamond stage between GIA and HRD.
They do have their defenders, but I've seen too many bad cases with my own two eyes to trust HRD.
2) Complaints about GIA not getting the shape correct. I agree, this is a problem- however far less than a misgrade of color/clarity. OEC ( as termed by GIA) trade for the same price as rounds pretty muh anyway.
OMB's trade like "Fancy Shapes".
After all, a buyer can easily see if it's a Modern RBC, or some sort of tranny, or OEC.

Thanks so much, David -- that's really helpful. I hadn't considered sending the stone to GIA on the way to the buyer OR sending the stone to an appraiser of their choice, even though that's exactly what I did -- b ought the stone sight-unseen and had it sent straight to Neil. Duh.

 

[elliemay]

Lets start at the other end. Assume it’s an M/VS1.

That’s half (or more) of the issue but it’s not end. Now you need to sell it. To whom are you going to sell it? How are you going to market it? How are you going to convince THEM that it’s an M/VS1? If it’s a dealer, it’s easy. They’re going to grade it for themselves no matter what you show them short of a GIA, and maybe even then. That’s a vote for GIA or nothing. Given the logistical problems with GIA from the UK, that’s a vote for nothing. They can bid however they like and you can accept or not as you like. You're already well prepared to make an informed choice and that's what's going to happen anyway. The same holds if you’re going to consign it. Let the jeweler deal with what makes the best advertisements for their market. If they want a lab pedigree, let them secure it. You’ve got all you need. The tricky part is if you’re going to direct retail it yourself. This has at least as much to do with YOU as it does the diamond. Some buyers are going to rely on their own grading, some will rely on whatever you provide, some will want a GIA, some will want it graded by their own expert and some will be happy to rely on yours. In-person sales also go rather differently than online sales and this difference is important in deciding on the paperwork you want. You, in turn, get to design your campaign to cater to whoever you want and get paperwork that supports what you chose. This means more information about your marketing plans is required before you can come up with a thoughtful answer of what paperwork best supports that plan. It’s not always the same, and it’s not a gemological question.

By the way, thank you for the business.

Hello Neil! You're very welcome -- your appraisal gave me enough confidence to keep the stone and honestly, in my own heart, gives me the confidence to sell it because I believe I can stand behind all of info you gave me.

The marketing issue is an important one -- hadn't really looked at it from that perspective. I think what I'll do is take a few more days to consider whether I even want to sell the ring (I'm a really impulsive person and have to give myself time for every. single. decision -- maddening!), but what I might do as a first step is put the ring on eBay, backed by your grading/ASET/Sarin info, etc., and set a reserve. That way, if the ring sells, it'll be for a price I'm comfortable with, and if it doesn't I'll have had some time to test the waters and think about my overarching marketing plan.

I'll be back in the US for a couple of weeks in October and am planning to take my mom diamond shopping, so don't be surprised if you hear from me then because I have some big plans for her!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ellie, speaking as a PSer, if you listed the ring for sale and put it on pre-loved, I can tell you right now that an appraisal from Neil would mean a LOT more to me than an EGL report!!! A person just posted the other day that he had bought an EGL diamond and had it sent to GIA and there were FIVE color grades difference! That really makes an EGL report worthless to me. They really are only of value to people who don't know any better.

 

[ariel144]

There was a thread discussion somewhere on EGL grading for the sake of insurance claims for older stones. Don't recall the reasoning but maybe someone will post information on that aspect of antique stones. I believe it had something to do with the fact that GIA many times graded them as "Round Brilliant" and with the Polish and SYM. many times being GOOD/FAIR on older stones the insurance value with GIA would go way down. It was an aspect of older stones that many had never considered before in that thread.

Hopefully someone can address this issue because I can't recall the specifics.

Also I read somewhere on PS that in Europe that HRD was the "GIA" standard over there.

Also there is a seller in the UK on ebay...you might contact her and find out where she has her stones graded and why. Here is one of her listings that is graded:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-6-06ct-OLD-CUT-DIAMOND-SOLITAIRE-RING-PLATINUM-/120922035218?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_VintageFineJewellery_CA&hash=item1c2783d412#ht_2786wt_1413

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Ariel -- I've emailed her to see how she gets her stones graded. She's got BEAUTIFUL stones....I might sell mine and end up with one of hers!

Yes, an L color never looked so white in a 6 carat honker huh? LOL! Yes, she has some beautiful antique jewelry and does nice videos too.

 

[elliemay]

Ellie, speaking as a PSer, if you listed the ring for sale and put it on pre-loved, I can tell you right now that an appraisal from Neil would mean a LOT more to me than an EGL report!!! A person just posted the other day that he had bought an EGL diamond and had it sent to GIA and there were FIVE color grades difference! That really makes an EGL report worthless to me. They really are only of value to people who don't know any better.

Thanks, diamondseeker! I feel the same way --Neil's appraisal is IT for me, but I was worrying about people from THE OUTSIDE (aka non-PSers ). I've slept on it and do think I'll just stick with Neil's appraisal in the first instance.

BTW, have I told you that I love the ring in your avatar? So lovely!

Yes, an L color never looked so white in a 6 carat honker huh? LOL! Yes, she has some beautiful antique jewelry and does nice videos too.

I KNOW! I would love to see that baby in person! Sadly, it would only be for a visit because there's no way on earth I could afford that honker! I did email her and she replied straight back -- going to give her a call today.

 

[elliemay]

Just realised I've put ELG in the title.