"Are All Men Pedophiles?"

[kenny]

This is the gratuitous and unfortunate name of what is actually a very enlightening award-winning documentary film.
It is now streaming on Netflix.
I highly recommend it.

I had no idea how ignorant I was on this rarely-discussed topic.
Being perhaps the ultimate taboo topic massive ignorance surrounds it.
IMO the film does a good job of presenting medical, cultural, historical and scientific illumination in a matter of fact way.

BTW, the education presented in no way condones Pedophilia.
Developing a better understanding of something in no way makes it any less criminal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_All_Men_Pedophiles%3F

 

[LaraOnline]

erk, that IS a very unfortunate name for the film.
It puts me off quite badly.
But it does remind me of how my husband interacts with children not his own: very rarely
He will avoid even knocking on our daughter's door should she have little girls visiting overnight with her.
In the same manner, he will go to all lengths to avoid being alone with our female employees...he avoids closed doors, confined areas and unchaperoned hr conversations...

 

[kenny]

erk, that IS a very unfortunate name for the film.
It puts me off quite badly.
But it does remind me of how my husband interacts with children not his own: very rarely
He will avoid even knocking on our daughter's door should she have little girls visiting overnight with her.
In the same manner, he will go to all lengths to avoid being alone with our female employees...he avoids closed doors, confined areas and unchaperoned hr conversations...

IMO, this is precisely why education, like this film, is sorely needed.

People are even less willing to discuss this topic than race relations.
Silence perpetuates the problem.

 

[LaraOnline]

I can see why men would feel it is better to avoid all risk of any smear, as such smears are life and career destroying...

 

[justginger]

I find the cultural attitude surrounding pedophilia interesting. We draw a line in the sand and tell men of all ''adult" ages that interest in women (or men) below that line is unacceptable ('sick,' actually) - but there is no real consistancy. In one state a 16/17 year old partner may be acceptable, but not in another. It wasn't long ago that if women weren't married and mothers by the age we now consider that of consent, she was an old maid! It amazes me how severely standards in the US changed in a relatively short period of time. Is it because our lifespans are significantly longer, so we perceive 'childhood' to last longer than our ancestors did? I have no doubt that only a few generations ago, our grandparents and great-grandparents were born to teenagers (and that was the norm, not a case of 'unfortunate' teenage pregnancy).

I am in no way condoning men (or women) having relations with children, I just find it interesting how much the issue regarding suitable marrying (or sexual) age has evolved. 'Children' means different things depending on history and geography, even within the US. I would be very interested in seeing this documentary after I get through my exams this month.

 

[kenny]

I won't post much from the film.
The topic is such a minefield that much I'd try to paraphrase could be misconstrued and incite a riot.
The film did a real good job of presenting in a rational and reasonable way, quite the opposite of the film's unfortunate title.

I will give this example, which I found compelling. ...

Humans have been around a long time and we didn't always live 70+ years.
Lifespan has gradually increased. (numbers and dates are in the film).

A short lifespan put pressure on humans to reproduce ASAP, not only so the baby was born in time, but could be raised a few years before the parents die of old age at 20 or 30.
Babies of people who waited till they were even 18 had a lower chance of survival into adulthood.
For zillions of years early humans had to give birth during or shortly after puberty for the baby to have any chance of survival.
This hardwired males to find 13-16 year old females optimum age for reproduction.

Today we know having kids later is better, and we have the luxury of a lifespan 3 or 4 times longer than our ancestors.
No matter what society teaches and what laws are in place, or awareness of the need to complete school before becoming a parent, brains are wired to reproduce as teens, and this is exploited by the fashion industry where models often start their careers at 12.
You don't rewire brains so quickly.

I compare this to the obesity problem so many humans suffer from these days.
For zillions of years bodies stored energy as fat to help us survive lack of food caused by floods and droughts.
Today our bodies still are wired to store energy as if we weren't perpetually and reliably surrounded with food.
You don't rewire metabolisms so quickly either.

Again, of course, evolution-based explanation why our species is wired for sex with young teens does not mean we should make it legal or okay ... just like knowing the reason our body loves to store fat doesn't make me slender.

The film is chock full of other surprising information.

 

[LaraOnline]

erk, it is a depressing subject.
I guess evolution also factored in that maybe 30 percent of women died in childbirth, so ...

 

[JulieN]

I won't post much from the film.
The topic is such a minefield that much I'd try to paraphrase could be misconstrued and incite a riot.
The film did a real good job of presenting in a rational and reasonable way, quite the opposite of the film's unfortunate title.

This hardwired males to find 13-16 year old females optimum age for reproduction.

I understand that the film has an unfortunate title, however, I must ask: Is the subject of the film pedophilia, or is it ephebophilia? 13-16 years old is well beyond the age that a pedophile is interested in.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

 

[justginger]

I won't post much from the film.
The topic is such a minefield that much I'd try to paraphrase could be misconstrued and incite a riot.
The film did a real good job of presenting in a rational and reasonable way, quite the opposite of the film's unfortunate title.

I will give this example, which I found compelling. ...

Humans have been around a long time and we didn't always live 70+ years.
Lifespan has gradually increased. (numbers and dates are in the film).

A short lifespan put pressure on humans to reproduce ASAP, not only so the baby was born in time, but could be raised a few years before the parents die of old age at 20 or 30.
Babies of people who waited till they were even 18 had a lower chance of survival into adulthood.
For zillions of years early humans had to give birth during or shortly after puberty for the baby to have any chance of survival.
This hardwired males to find 13-16 year old females optimum age for reproduction.

Today we know having kids later is better, and we have the luxury of a lifespan 3 or 4 times longer than our ancestors.
No matter what society teaches and what laws are in place, or awareness of the need to complete school before becoming a parent, brains are wired to reproduce as teens, and this is exploited by the fashion industry where models often start their careers at 12.
You don't rewire brains so quickly.

I compare this to the obesity problem so many humans suffer from these days.
For zillions of years bodies stored energy as fat to help us survive lack of food caused by floods and droughts.
Today our bodies still are wired to store energy as if we weren't perpetually and reliably surrounded with food.
You don't rewire metabolisms so quickly either.

Again, of course, evolution-based explanation why our species is wired for sex with young teens does not mean we should make it legal or okay ... just like knowing the reason our body loves to store fat doesn't make me slender.

The film is chock full of other surprising information.

I will definitely be checking it out - it is perhaps the most taboo subject possible and I think it would be, from a scientific point of view, very interesting. I still remember hearing somewhere that from a biological stance, you are at your most healthy age of reproduction (in terms of fetal and maternal fitness and survival) at 15-16.

 

[justginger]

I won't post much from the film.
The topic is such a minefield that much I'd try to paraphrase could be misconstrued and incite a riot.
The film did a real good job of presenting in a rational and reasonable way, quite the opposite of the film's unfortunate title.

This hardwired males to find 13-16 year old females optimum age for reproduction.

I understand that the film has an unfortunate title, however, I must ask: Did the film fail to define pedophilia for the audience? 13-16 years old is well beyond the age that a pedophile is interested in.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Interesting - I always assumed pedophilia was the sexual interest of anyone below the age of consent (adulthood). Is there a term applicable to the ages between the end of pedophilia at age 11/13 and the legal age of adulthood? That would still be classed as childhood, wouldn't it?

 

[JulieN]

justginger:

Late adolescence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

Early adolescence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia
I haven't seen this term used as much, probably because it could be interpreted as a type of pedophilia.

 

[justginger]

justginger:

Late adolescence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

Early adolescence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

You learn something new every day! Thank you for the information, I now understand my perception of what pedophilia is was extremely incorrect.

 

[kenny]

I must ask: Is the subject of the film pedophilia, or is it ephebophilia? 13-16 years old is well beyond the age that a pedophile is interested in.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Yes, our society and legal system has one bucket called pedophilia, which is attraction to any kid under the age of concent, yet the medical community splits it up into two age groups as you pointed out.

Yes, this is explained in the film. (Like most of the public I was ignorant of that.)
It dives into all aspects of this subject.

I was impressed how "just the facts, Ma'am" this film is.
It manages to bypass the paranoia, hysteria and titillation this subject often engenders.

This topic's taboo is so strong that I was hesitant to post anything about the documentary film.
It took me 24 hours to start this thread ... it is very rare for Kenny to hold back.

I'd describe the film as appealing more to a scholarly demographic than readers of TMZ.

 

[Circe]

Thanks for the tip, Kenny - I've been interested in seeing this film since I read this review, but hadn't realized it was available on Netflix.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/pedophilia-documentarian-eighteen-is-just-a-numb

Before having seen it ... a lot of the statistics on human mortality are violently skewed by outliers. The idea that human beings didn't live into their 70s three or four thousand years ago is perpetuated using more or less the same justifications as, say, the commonplace depiction of rape in "medieval" (ish) societies like GoT: it promotes a teleological perspective, that every day we're moving towards some kind of social betterment. Yes, we live longer on both mean and median ... but that's the result of the same social developments which started providing protection from premature advances for young adolescents. In fact, at least for the ladies, it's probably a direct correlation.

In general, evolutionary psychology makes me twitch a little, because it's pure backwards formation. I don't know if the topic of the film includes both hebephilia and ephebephilia, but if the film is claiming that sexual attraction to prepubescents is somehow a biological norm, that's ... illogical, because attempts at reproduction with those too young to conceive would be by definition unsuccessful. On the other hand, the argument that girls past menarche and boys on the cusp of adulthood (is there an equivalent term, does anybody know?) are physically mature and thus potentially attractive to mature adults ... okay, I can see it physically, even if I recoil from it psychologically and ethically as a product of my society.

One question that none of the reviews have seemed to address: does the film address any other aspects - actual, clinical pedophilia, or sexual attraction to boys in their early to mid adolescence - by either gender, in any way? The general justifications of pederasty I've seen, from Plato onwards, have focused on the purported benefits for the younger party without interrogating the impetus on the part of the elder. I'm curious as to whether the film-maker saw any parallels, implications, etc. between the forms of interest he saw as being biologically justified, and those which were either generally condemned or socially fostered? Because, agreed, that title is dreadfully misleading. Probably does more harm than good ....

 

[momhappy]

I don't see the need (or want) to understand pedophilia, so for me, personally, the film would be of no interest. I'm sure that it could be for others though - just not for me

 

[missy]

Thanks for the recommendation Kenny. This looks fascinating and I am putting it on our Netflix queue.

Momhappy, I think there is always reason to broaden one's knowledge horizon to better understand people. Not everyone is just like you and before judging others it is helpful to see where they might be coming from. Of course no one is condoning pedophilia but I bet if you watch the documentary you might think differently about some aspects. You might be surprised.

I don't see the need (or want) to understand pedophilia, so for me, personally, the film would be of no interest. I'm sure that it could be for others though - just not for me

 

[LLJsmom]

Gonna watch this when I can. I do not object to understanding more about the subject. And the title is meant to peak interest I assume. It peaked mine.

 

[momhappy]

Thanks for the recommendation Kenny. This looks fascinating and I am putting it on our Netflix queue.

Momhappy, I think there is always reason to broaden one's knowledge horizon to better understand people. Not everyone is just like you and before judging others it is helpful to see where they might be coming from. Of course no one is condoning pedophilia but I bet if you watch the documentary you might think differently about some aspects. You might be surprised.

I don't see the need (or want) to understand pedophilia, so for me, personally, the film would be of no interest. I'm sure that it could be for others though - just not for me

I agree that there there is always a reason to broaden one's knowledge. For me, however, this is just not one of them. I never said anything about judging anyone or anything - I just don't care to watch it and that's nothing personal or judgmental Like I said, I'm sure that it's quite fascinating/interesting to some folks

 

[MollyMalone]

For anyone who's interested, A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues, published in 2007 in the Mayo Clinic's journal, is excellent -- although I hope the forensic psychiatrists-authors will update it in the foreseeable future:
http://www.drryanhall.com/Articles/pedophiles.pdf

 

[LLJsmom]

I saw the movie. It was disturbing. I came from the point of view of a mother, and I wanted to see if I could learn anything that would help me protect my children more effectively. Call me naïve but I didn't realize how horrible pedophiles could be, and in truly all the different forms in can be manifested. Now I know, and can be more vigilant. To me, the discussion of the meaning of the word "pedophilia" in the movie is just a discussion about semantics. It disturbs me greatly to see that there are people that seem to try to explain away the attraction toward legally underaged people. I know what is not right and what is. And no matter how they cite history and examples, THIS is not it.

 

[kenny]

I saw the movie. It was disturbing. I came from the point of view of a mother, and I wanted to see if I could learn anything that would help me protect my children more effectively. Call me naïve but I didn't realize how horrible pedophiles could be, and in truly all the different forms in can be manifested. Now I know, and can be more vigilant. To me, the discussion of the meaning of the word "pedophilia" in the movie is just a discussion about semantics. It disturbs me greatly to see that there are people that seem to try to explain away the attraction toward legally underaged people. I know what is not right and what is. And no matter how they cite history and examples, THIS is not it.

Explain away?
Huh?
I didn't get that the film was doing that, at all.
Yes they did interview a wide range of people with a wide range of views ... that doesn't mean the film has an agenda to legalize pedophilia.
Explaining is not 'explaining away'.

You can explain motivations for murder, robbery, tax evasion or any other crime.
That doesn't explain it "away", or imply it is not wrong.
It just explains what's behind the crime.

Before and after the film I felt 100% the same ... that pedophilia is a horrible crime and no laws should be softened.
Children must be protected from these people.
Personally, I'm glad I know more about them now, and understanding is in no way condoning.

But thank you for posting your impression of the film.
I'm glad you feel better informed so you can be more vigilant.

 

[LLJsmom]

I saw the movie. It was disturbing. I came from the point of view of a mother, and I wanted to see if I could learn anything that would help me protect my children more effectively. Call me naïve but I didn't realize how horrible pedophiles could be, and in truly all the different forms in can be manifested. Now I know, and can be more vigilant. To me, the discussion of the meaning of the word "pedophilia" in the movie is just a discussion about semantics. It disturbs me greatly to see that there are people that seem to try to explain away the attraction toward legally underaged people. I know what is not right and what is. And no matter how they cite history and examples, THIS is not it.

Explain away?
Huh?
I didn't get that the film was doing that, at all.
Yes they did interview a wide range of people with a wide range of views ... that doesn't mean the film has an agenda to legalize pedophilia.
Explaining is not 'explaining away'.

You can explain motivations for murder, robbery, tax evasion or any other crime.
That doesn't explain it "away", or imply it is not wrong.
It just explains what's behind the crime.

Before and after the film I felt 100% the same ... that pedophilia is a horrible crime and no laws should be softened.
Children must be protected from these people.
Personally, I'm glad I know more about them now, and understanding is in no way condoning.

But thank you for posting your impression of the film.
I'm glad you feel better informed so you can be more vigilant.

Yes, me too!

My take is that it was explaining it away. Can't help it. That's how I feel about it. Others may not agree. Oh well. Everyone comes to a similar situation from different places and filters. It doesn't surprise me that there are differences of opinion. I'm glad you called out the movie to us Kenny. I am glad I know more.

 

[kenny]

I saw the movie. It was disturbing. I came from the point of view of a mother, and I wanted to see if I could learn anything that would help me protect my children more effectively. Call me naïve but I didn't realize how horrible pedophiles could be, and in truly all the different forms in can be manifested. Now I know, and can be more vigilant. To me, the discussion of the meaning of the word "pedophilia" in the movie is just a discussion about semantics. It disturbs me greatly to see that there are people that seem to try to explain away the attraction toward legally underaged people. I know what is not right and what is. And no matter how they cite history and examples, THIS is not it.

Explain away?
Huh?
I didn't get that the film was doing that, at all.
Yes they did interview a wide range of people with a wide range of views ... that doesn't mean the film has an agenda to legalize pedophilia.
Explaining is not 'explaining away'.

You can explain motivations for murder, robbery, tax evasion or any other crime.
That doesn't explain it "away", or imply it is not wrong.
It just explains what's behind the crime.

Before and after the film I felt 100% the same ... that pedophilia is a horrible crime and no laws should be softened.
Children must be protected from these people.
Personally, I'm glad I know more about them now, and understanding is in no way condoning.

But thank you for posting your impression of the film.
I'm glad you feel better informed so you can be more vigilant.

Yes, me too!

My take is that it was explaining it away. Can't help it. That's how I feel about it. Others may not agree. Oh well. Everyone comes to a similar situation from different places and filters. It doesn't surprise me that there are differences of opinion. I'm glad you called out the movie to us Kenny. I am glad I know more.

No problem.
You are absolutely entitled!
Sorry if I came across as arguing to chip away at your opinion.

 

[LLJsmom]

I saw the movie. It was disturbing. I came from the point of view of a mother, and I wanted to see if I could learn anything that would help me protect my children more effectively. Call me naïve but I didn't realize how horrible pedophiles could be, and in truly all the different forms in can be manifested. Now I know, and can be more vigilant. To me, the discussion of the meaning of the word "pedophilia" in the movie is just a discussion about semantics. It disturbs me greatly to see that there are people that seem to try to explain away the attraction toward legally underaged people. I know what is not right and what is. And no matter how they cite history and examples, THIS is not it.

Explain away?
Huh?
I didn't get that the film was doing that, at all.
Yes they did interview a wide range of people with a wide range of views ... that doesn't mean the film has an agenda to legalize pedophilia.
Explaining is not 'explaining away'.

You can explain motivations for murder, robbery, tax evasion or any other crime.
That doesn't explain it "away", or imply it is not wrong.
It just explains what's behind the crime.

Before and after the film I felt 100% the same ... that pedophilia is a horrible crime and no laws should be softened.
Children must be protected from these people.
Personally, I'm glad I know more about them now, and understanding is in no way condoning.

But thank you for posting your impression of the film.
I'm glad you feel better informed so you can be more vigilant.

Yes, me too!

My take is that it was explaining it away. Can't help it. That's how I feel about it. Others may not agree. Oh well. Everyone comes to a similar situation from different places and filters. It doesn't surprise me that there are differences of opinion. I'm glad you called out the movie to us Kenny. I am glad I know more.

No problem.
You are absolutely entitled!
Sorry if I came across as arguing to chip away at your opinion.

NP. I've come to learn that PSers aren't afraid to voice their opinion, and that's a great thing. And everyone has different things that they feel strongly about. It's all good. I have learned a lot more than just info about diamonds. Your funny and thought provoking questions have had a lot to do with that. . Also I am learning when to speak up and when to shut up. Another great life lesson that bears relearning.