Appraisals

[mamalovesgems]

I loved a stone that I got on memo and intended to keep it. I took it to a GG to be appraised and they came up with a much lower value than what I paid/was asked to pay. Any other local more certified appraisers are all fully booked and the stone is due back. What would you do?

@Autumn in New England

 

[Autumn in New England]

I'm going to be blunt with my opinion... and others may (rightly) disagree. I have zero use for gemstone/jewelry appraisers. There, I said it. Unless the person happens to be someone whose expertise I trust implicitly, I will rely on my own knowledge and eyeballs first. That being said, again, only you can make this decision. It's your $ and you have to live with the stone. Perhaps you can tell the seller you'd like to return it, so you can continue to browse. Then, if you circle back around to this stone, and it's still available, you can offer to purchase (and pay immediately for) it without a return policy (since you've already examined it in person). I'm not sure if the seller will go for that, but it's worth mentioning. I know... these are tough decisions!

 

[mamalovesgems]

I'm going to be blunt with my opinion... and others may (rightly) disagree. I have zero use for gemstone/jewelry appraisers. There, I said it. Unless the person happens to be someone whose expertise I trust implicitly, I will rely on my own knowledge and eyeballs first. That being said, again, only you can make this decision. It's your $ and you have to live with the stone. Perhaps you can tell them you'd like to return it, so you can continue to browse. Then, if you circle back around to this stone, and it's still available, you can offer to purchase (and pay immediately for) it without a return policy (since you've already examined it in person). I'm not sure if they'll go for that, but it's worth mentioning. I know... these are tough decisions!

I need them for my insurance policy. I want to make sure I'm compensated for the stone's cost at a minimum before I send it off for setting, something could happen to it. Down the road, I could lose the ring. So that is a concern. I was trying to leave names out in this new thread.

I was offered a guarantee that the stone would appraise at cost or higher through her recommended appraiser after purchase, I took it somewhere locally just to get it insured prior to setting. But, I hear you...

 

[Autumn in New England]

When I first started collecting, I brought a 1ct. heat-only ceylon sapphire to an appraiser. I was pretty young, maybe 22, and had no idea what I was doing. I bought the thing from a shopping network for $750. He took one look at the stone and threw it across the desk. "This is a junk sapphire," he said. "It's dark... there's color zoning... I see a feather... it's shallow... the stone is just about worthless." I sold it for $1,500. Like anything else, there are good appraisers and bad ones. It's hit or miss, IMO.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I need them for my insurance policy. I want to make sure I'm compensated for the stone's cost at a minimum before I send it off for setting, something could happen to it. Down the road, I could lose the ring. So that is a concern. I was trying to leave names out in this new thread.

I was offered a guarantee that the stone would appraise at cost or higher through her recommended appraiser after purchase, I took it somewhere locally just to get it insured prior to setting. But, I hear you...

So sorry, editing my post now! Be back in a minute.

 

[mamalovesgems]

When I first started collecting, I brought a 1ct. heat-only ceylon sapphire to an appraiser. I was pretty young, maybe 22, and had no idea what I was doing. I bought the thing from a shopping network for $750. He took one look at the stone and threw it across the desk. "This is a junk sapphire," he said. "It's dark... there's color zoning... I see a feather... it's shallow... the stone is just about worthless." I sold it for $1,500. Like anything else, there are good appraisers and bad ones. It's hit or miss, IMO.

I've been to this one many times. They are often at or slightly above my cost and once much higher (I got a deal) and now twice lower. The other time they were off, my stone was in fact not returnable and it was overpriced sold to us by a family friend. The friend insisted it was a good price and just viewing online it was clear that he was not competitively priced. It was for my fancy intense yellow diamond.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Ok, I'm back. lol Just knowing this seller the way I do, and knowing what I see with my eyes of that stone, I can't help but feel the fault must lie with the appraiser. But ask if you can have a bit more time to bring the stone to a new appraiser. If you still don't like the figure you receive, I think you have your answer. I can understand your concern for insurance purposes.

 

[mamalovesgems]

Ok, I'm back. lol Just knowing this seller the way I do, and knowing what I see with my eyes of that stone, I can't help but feel the fault must lie with the appraiser. But ask if you can have a bit more time to bring the stone to a new appraiser. If you still don't like the figure you receive, I think you have your answer. I can understand your concern for insurance purposes.

Thanks

I let them know about why I was returning it because of the figure and they indicated they did not understand how that figure was arrived at. I kept pushing the appraiser for an overall quality or other indicator that would somehow make this one more superior and thus higher priced. However, just searching online it is clear this one is higher priced than others, and higher priced that some with finer / more desirable color. The less desirable color, knocks it down a notch vs. finer/extra finer colored stones. I wish the solution was they would send it to the appraiser prior to sale - otherwise my local appraisers are all booked until May.

Are you not appraising/insuring your gems any longer?

 

[Autumn in New England]

I've been to this one many times. They are often at or slightly above my cost and once much higher (I got a deal) and now twice lower. The other time they were off, my stone was in fact not returnable and it was overpriced sold to us by a family friend. The friend insisted it was a good price and just viewing online it was clear that he was not competitively priced. It was for my fancy intense yellow diamond.

Ahh I see... again though, they may be diamond experts and not really understand fine colored stone value. But it sounds like you trust them. If that's the case, and you are disappointed with this purchase, perhaps you should move on from the stone. You deserve to be 100% happy!

 

[mamalovesgems]

Ahh I see... again though, they may be diamond experts and not really understand fine colored stone value. But it sounds like you trust them. If that's the case, and you are disappointed with this purchase, perhaps you should move on from the stone. You deserve to be 100% happy!

I'm just disappointed it didn't appraise. They have done blue sapphires for me in the past and some fine garnets but otherwise diamonds mostly. They had a younger appraiser do it this time, and she had just joined recently from school and her last job was working for sapphire/ruby/emerald dealer on 47th street (NYC) buying/selling stones.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks

I let them know about why I was returning it because of the figure and they indicated they did not understand how that figure was arrived at. I kept pushing the appraiser for an overall quality or other indicator that would somehow make this one more superior and thus higher priced. However, just searching online it is clear this one is higher priced than others, and higher priced that some with finer / more desirable color. The less desirable color, knocks it down a notch vs. finer/extra finer colored stones. I wish the solution was they would send it to the appraiser prior to sale - otherwise my local appraisers are all booked until May.

Are you not appraising/insuring your gems any longer?

I have a G.G. friend who drafts whatever I request. Should I not admit that? lol

 

[Autumn in New England]

I'm just disappointed it didn't appraise. They have done blue sapphires for me in the past and some fine garnets but otherwise diamonds mostly.

I'm sorry, honey. Would you feel better if the seller has it appraised for insurance purposes? Or are you just feeling like you overpaid and that upsets you most?

 

[mamalovesgems]

I'm just disappointed it didn't appraise. They have done blue sapphires for me in the past and some fine garnets but otherwise diamonds mostly.

I'm sorry, honey. Would you feel better if the seller has it appraised for insurance purposes? Or are you just feeling like you overpaid and that upsets you most?

Maybe overpaid, like I said my FIY diamond was also overpaid for and I had wished I got a bigger stone for the $ instead of overpaying. So think this would be the same feeling/is the same feeling. Similarly all these stones are unique and I may not see this exact stone or similar again. And I really wanted to have this level of service, so there's that aspect too that I'm feeling confused about.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Maybe overpaid, like I said my FIY diamond was also overpaid for and I had wished I got a bigger stone for the $ instead of overpaying. So think this would be the same feeling/is the same feeling. Similarly all these stones are unique and I may not see this exact stone or similar again. And I really wanted to have this level of service, so there's that aspect too that I'm feeling confused about.

Oh I think we can all relate as collectors. You're not alone in that feeling, my friend. So the main dilemma you have seems to be... can you find this quality of stone at a (significantly) lower price, or conversely, a better quality of stone at a similar price? If yes, you know what you need to do. If not, and you love this stone, you know what you need to do. But yes, it's a gamble. You may return this stone and not be able to replace it at a lower price.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I also don’t trust appraisers much at all and when I need it for insurance I basically just find someone willing to use my receipts and expertise to put the value I need.

Like recently I bought a three stone diamond ring on eBay for $850 USD and the appraisal from my local GG says $5300 USD. Ridiculous!! I haven’t insured it yet because it just seems so overblown the math doesn’t add up.

Another time I bought a star sapphire and had it set and my investment in the ring was $4600. It appraised for $7500 which I thought was silly but at least I figured it would cover a replacement. Well I ended up damaging the sapphire and needing to have the ring remade and guess what? It cost much more than the appraisal because the sapphire cost 50% more than the appraised value for the sapphire!

There are appraisers who really know what they are doing. But most just reply on published trade reports. Which become useless when talking about rare gems. In my case old cut diamonds and star sapphires.

I trust my knowledge of the market and the people I buy from. So if I bought one thing and it appraised for too little I would just get another appraisal. End of story.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have a G.G. friend who drafts whatever I request. Should I not admit that? lol

No this is what I want too!!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I also don’t trust appraisers much at all and when I need it for insurance I basically just find someone willing to use my receipts and expertise to put the value I need.

Like recently I bought a three stone diamond ring on eBay for $850 USD and the appraisal from my local GG says $5300 USD. Ridiculous!! I haven’t insured it yet because it just seems so overblown the math doesn’t add up.

Another time I bought a star sapphire and had it set and my investment in the ring was $4600. It appraised for $7500 which I thought was silly but at least I figured it would cover a replacement. Well I ended up damaging the sapphire and needing to have the ring remade and guess what? It cost much more than the appraisal because the sapphire cost 50% more than the appraised value for the sapphire!

There are appraisers who really know what they are doing. But most just reply on published trade reports. Which become useless when talking about rare gems. In my case old cut diamonds and star sapphires.

I trust my knowledge of the market and the people I buy from. So if I bought one thing and it appraised for too little I would just get another appraisal. End of story.

I certainly understand OP's concern. That aside, these are my feelings exactly!

 

[kenny]

I'd return it now for a refund.
Then I'd make an appointment with your local appraiser.

Then, if still available, rebuy the stone - timing the purchase with shipping length in mind - to get it a few days before the appraiser appointment.

Risky yes, but that's what I'd do.

Oh, and I'd NOT mention the previous appraisal to the new appraiser.
It's possible that doing so may influence the new appraisal.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I want to add that valuing a FLY diamond is fairly straightforward. A fine Ruby not so much. I would be making a different post about a diamonds appraised value.

 

[mamalovesgems]

I want to add that valuing a FLY diamond is fairly straightforward. A fine Ruby not so much. I would be making a different post about a diamonds appraised value.

It was fancy intense yellow, closer to vivd but still graded intense.

 

[mamalovesgems]

I also don’t trust appraisers much at all and when I need it for insurance I basically just find someone willing to use my receipts and expertise to put the value I need.

Like recently I bought a three stone diamond ring on eBay for $850 USD and the appraisal from my local GG says $5300 USD. Ridiculous!! I haven’t insured it yet because it just seems so overblown the math doesn’t add up.

Another time I bought a star sapphire and had it set and my investment in the ring was $4600. It appraised for $7500 which I thought was silly but at least I figured it would cover a replacement. Well I ended up damaging the sapphire and needing to have the ring remade and guess what? It cost much more than the appraisal because the sapphire cost 50% more than the appraised value for the sapphire!

There are appraisers who really know what they are doing. But most just reply on published trade reports. Which become useless when talking about rare gems. In my case old cut diamonds and star sapphires.

I trust my knowledge of the market and the people I buy from. So if I bought one thing and it appraised for too little I would just get another appraisal. End of story.

I've tried they are all booked up until May!

 

[Dreamer_D]

But you aren't using the appraisal to determine value in the scenario I was describing, so it doesn't matter if its not until may I meant I would go to a different appraiser for my insurance valuation. I totally get if you aren't comfortable with that approach. You aren't wrong to want reassurance about the price you paid.

 

[Dreamer_D]

It was fancy intense yellow, closer to vivd but still graded intense.

Sorry, I just misremembered. I bet most insurance appraisers don't know much about the value of those kinds of diamonds either!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

When I first started collecting, I brought a 1ct. heat-only ceylon sapphire to an appraiser. I was pretty young, maybe 22, and had no idea what I was doing. I bought the thing from a shopping network for $750. He took one look at the stone and threw it across the desk. "This is a junk sapphire," he said. "It's dark... there's color zoning... I see a feather... it's shallow... the stone is just about worthless." I sold it for $1,500. Like anything else, there are good appraisers and bad ones. It's hit or miss, IMO.

good lord
how awful for you
but you got the last laugh

 

[mamalovesgems]

Sorry, I just misremembered. I bet most insurance appraisers don't know much about the value of those kinds of diamonds either!

Yes, but there are companies like Leibish who have a very easy inventory to peruse and confirm that the appraisal is on par...and it was. The $ made sense to me because I had seen them on Leibish for that price, but my fiancé was dismayed because he had paid his jeweler friend quite a bit more.

 

[mamalovesgems]

But you aren't using the appraisal to determine value in the scenario I was describing, so it doesn't matter if its not until may I meant I would go to a different appraiser for my insurance valuation. I totally get if you aren't comfortable with that approach. You aren't wrong to want reassurance about the price you paid.

Yeah, it is what it is. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[LilAlex]

Don't place too much stock in any one valuation. It's not like a house appraisal where you're like "Woah, what am I missing?!"

A decade ago, I had one appraiser that I really liked and trusted for colored stones. He was a no-nonsense senior gemologist in the best appraisal-only shop in town. I know this in part because one fancy store tried to prove a point by pulling out an appraisal from this place, which did all of their behind-the-scenes assessments. Before I knew much, I would use him to "backstop" any online purchase. He, of course, had access to the annually-updated online resource that everyone uses that shows price/ct for various ct ranges for heated or unheated Ceylon, Burma, or other, and in qualities of commercial, good, very good, fine, extra-fine, etc. So although it looked objective, it ultimately was quite subjective. I would call him and swing by with a gem and a decent report (usually) and he'd look at it under the 'scope and various lightings for < 5 min. It was always a verbal consult (no written report) and it seemed fun for him so I practically had to force him take my money. Now, I trust my subjective (idiosyncratic) preference more than his objective opinion -- it's more important that I love it than that it be objectively excellent.

But to your point, and before I started working with him, specifically, their shop valued an online purchase of ours so high that my spouse refused to wear it. It was maybe 5X what we paid and, to this day, it lives in the safe deposit box (even tho' that "high" appraisal price would not drop any jaws on this forum now). Shortly thereafter, I found a much smaller sapphire with a super-open and vivid medium-blue color in a petite all-original Deco mounting. That ring was from a local vendor -- their SA actually called me because she knew I was looking. I took it to the same appraiser and everyone in the shop loved that ring. I actually dropped that one off -- and they all gathered 'round when I came to pick it up. But, and here's the important part, they (disappointingly) valued that ring at right about my purchase price (which had seemed fair and was not very high a dozen years ago) because it was a smaller stone and their algorithm did not adequately factor in the super-desirable color that we all could see or the iconic little mounting. (I've been chasing the color of that sapphire ever since with no luck.) So everyone in the shop was madly in love with that ring -- and even said "We hate to see this one leave!" -- but did not value it very highly. So there can be a big disconnect between highly covetable stuff and highly valued stuff -- even though they should track together. In a fire, I would save the way less expensive ring over the "valuable" one in a heartbeat -- and so would anyone in that shop that appraised both rings.

Also: I'm sure you know but there is a big difference between "replacement value" for new-ish jewelry and "fair-market value" for vintage stuff. The latter is based on actual online comparables and is much closer to real-world pricing, imo. And these are different from insurance valuation and valuation for equitable distribution from an estate. I did the last for a half-dozen things as executor of a family member's estate because I wanted all the heirs to be on equal footing when we "chose." Those valuations were startlingly low -- almost eBay pricing. But at least we were all working from the same low benchmarks.

 

[newtojewels]

I only had one appraisal which I needed to have done for insurance purposes because the purchases were secondhand. The appraiser was on the list I got from Pricescope and his values were really far off from the simple addition we could all do. I certainly wouldn't trust him to value anything that required actually thinking things through.

For example, my Paraiba ring in a CecileRaleyDesigns setting which is as simple as pricing can get since you just need to add up the numbers for each component and it's all from one source. I gave the appraiser printouts of the setting including price, all carat weights from my purchase, listings for her loose Paraibas, etc., and he was somehow still off. Doing the worst case scenario from her pricing and including the current 20% sale on gemstones, the true replacement value going through Yvonne is $4400 (and again that's trying to get it as low as possible to match his valuation). I think PSers know that Yvonne is not a crazy overpriced seller either. The appraiser said replacement value was $3500, which would make my center 0.86ct faceted Brazilian Paraiba just $2300/carat. I bet all CS lovers wish Paraiba pricing were there again!

The point is that I trust the pricing of our trusted vendors and the understanding of our PS members far more than my one appraiser interaction. Your ruby requires so much more thought than my ring did that I'm not surprised that the appraised value was off. You should ask the appraiser to find you a replacement stone at the suggested price!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I only had one appraisal which I needed to have done for insurance purposes because the purchases were secondhand. The appraiser was on the list I got from Pricescope and his values were really far off from the simple addition we could all do. I certainly wouldn't trust him to value anything that required actually thinking things through.

For example, my Paraiba ring in a CecileRaleyDesigns setting which is as simple as pricing can get since you just need to add up the numbers for each component and it's all from one source. I gave the appraiser printouts of the setting including price, all carat weights from my purchase, listings for her loose Paraibas, etc., and he was somehow still off. Doing the worst case scenario from her pricing and including the current 20% sale on gemstones, the true replacement value going through Yvonne is $4400 (and again that's trying to get it as low as possible to match his valuation). I think PSers know that Yvonne is not a crazy overpriced seller either. The appraiser said replacement value was $3500, which would make my center 0.86ct faceted Brazilian Paraiba just $2300/carat. I bet all CS lovers wish Paraiba pricing were there again!

The point is that I trust the pricing of our trusted vendors and the understanding of our PS members far more than my one appraiser interaction. Your ruby requires so much more thought than my ring did that I'm not surprised that the appraised value was off.

This is a nice breakdown. My appraisal of my star sapphire was off by about 22% and I know that’s how much it was off because I had to make an insurance claim just a week after I got it, and the replacement cost was 22% higher than appraised value.

You should ask the appraiser to find you a replacement stone at the suggested price!

lol! I had this exact scenario when I did my insurance replacement!
The jeweler who did the appraisal said they could find me a replacement for $2800. Nope. They actually could not find me a single replacement option, for any value, let alone the replacement value.

Eventually, three months later, Yvonne located me one. For $3600.

Which again just emphasizes how difficulty it is to value rare gemstones, and how fraught the purchase, insurance, and replacement processes can be!!

 

[newtojewels]

This is a nice breakdown. My appraisal of my star sapphire was off by about 22% and I know that’s how much it was off because I had to make an insurance claim just a week after I got it, and the replacement cost was 22% higher than appraised value.



lol! I had this exact scenario when I did my insurance replacement!
The jeweler who did the appraisal said they could find me a replacement for $2800. Nope. They actually could not find me a single replacement option, for any value, let alone the replacement value.

Eventually, three months later, Yvonne located me one. For $3600.

Which again just emphasizes how difficulty it is to value rare gemstones, and how fraught the purchase, insurance, and replacement processes can be!!

And at least our amounts are "only" ~$1k different -- imagine how quickly the errors grow when you're talking 20-25% in rare and large stones like 2ct+ unheated rubies!

I'm glad you got your replacement in the end, but what a mess