Anyone a landlord???

[bunnycat]

Hubby and I rented out his condo when we moved in and bought a house. That was a couple of years ago. Now, the tenant has moved out and the management company did their inspection of the property and there are problems. We have neither of us been landlords before and so I need a few opinions if there's any landlords out there in PS land.

Before hubs moved out of his condo, he was very gentle on his property. He never wore shoes indoors because of the pale carpet and treated everything with care. We knew that wear and tear would be a matter of course, but some of the things I'm not so sure of. When does it tip over the edge from being normal wear and tear to "OMG, we're going to have to spend thousands to fix this!"?

The living room carpet has a HUGE 2ft wide stain on it that wasn't there before and while the carpet was certainly showing some wear and getting older when hubs rented it out, it wasn't ruined by any stretch of the imagination. The carpet in the rest of the house seems mostly ok still.

And though it seems like a small issues that hubs has kind of glossed over, there is some damage to some kitchen tiles which worries me. Like a chip out of the tile that goes down past the glazing to the terra cotta underneath. Is it even possible to repair just a couple of damaged tiles if there's tile damage, or do you have to start all over? And if it's not bad enough to start over, but probably will entail having the entire kitchen redone at some point soon, how do you decide what should come out a security deposit?

 

[Kelinas]

My husband and I are currently renting out our house and they are our first tenants so ill be following this thread.
But dh and I agree - after a few years (plus the time you/your husband spent in it) wouldn't the carpet need to be redone from normal wear and tear? We spent one year in our house before renting it out, and it was a average carpet and we both agreed that when our tenants leave, we will redo it for a "refresh" mini makeover.
As for the kitchen, I have no clue. I'm deathly terrified that it will be a hot mess when they leave.

 

[Kelinas]

Or is carpet updating after a few years odd?

 

[iLander]

Get a carpet cleaner in there and see if he can get rid of the stains. I usually call someone with "Chem Dry" in the name, and that works the best. Call around for tile repair to cover the chip, or get a bottle of nail polish that matches the glaze color and paint over the terra cotta. You gotta be a little resourceful to be a landlord.

You can also do carpet repair if you have any pieces handy. Just look in the phone book. If you don't have extra, they usually cut a piece out from under where the bed usually is, and swap the pieces.

A chipped tile, dirty carpet, all normal wear and tear. Hole in the drywall, broken appliances, bashed garage door, that's out of the deposit. Carpet cleaning, deep cleaning by maids, interior/exterior paint touchup, that's all landlord requirements. Good news is all of those costs are deductible.

If you decide to keep any of the deposit, you usually need to notify the tenant in writing within 30 days of vacancy, at least in my state. Google "tenant rights (your state name)" or "renter rights (your state name)", that should tell you a lot.

 

[bunnycat]

Or is carpet updating after a few years odd?

I think it depends on the quality of carpet you use. We already knew about the carpet stain, and to me, that is small fish compared to the possibility of having to rip out and replace kitchen tile.

Cheap carpet (like .80-.1.00 per sq ft) we already know has about a 3 year life. More expensive carpet ought to last quite a bit longer. We had already planned on replacing the living room carpet and leaving the other carpet since it still looks fine. Again, it seems a grey area in terms of reasonable wear and tear versus blatant carelessness as the carpet was older anyway, but at the same time, that doesn't (IMO) give a person free reign to destroy it just because it's older.

As I said, the kitchen tile is the most worrying to me in terms of expense, plus all the little things that add up that I have NO idea about. It's in the lease to properly care for the AC unit (replacing filters and so forth) and if that was neglected that's potential multiple thousands to fix or replace.

The kitchen and bathroom were not properly cleaned and I would have been embarrassed to leave the oven in the state they photographed it. I am pretty sure it's going to take a pro to remove the caked on stuff.

 

[bunnycat]

Get a carpet cleaner in there and see if he can get rid of the stains. I usually call someone with "Chem Dry" in the name, and that works the best. Call around for tile repair to cover the chip, or get a bottle of nail polish that matches the glaze color and paint over the terra cotta. You gotta be a little resourceful to be a landlord.

You can also do carpet repair if you have any pieces handy. Just look in the phone book. If you don't have extra, they usually cut a piece out from under where the bed usually is, and swap the pieces.

A chipped tile, dirty carpet, all normal wear and tear. Hole in the drywall, broken appliances, bashed garage door, that's out of the deposit. Carpet cleaning, deep cleaning by maids, interior/exterior paint touchup, that's all landlord requirements. Good news is all of those costs are deductible.

If you decide to keep any of the deposit, you usually need to notify the tenant in writing within 30 days of vacancy, at least in my state. Google "tenant rights (your state name)" or "renter rights (your state name)", that should tell you a lot.

Well, the managment company will be figuring some of this out. In our state, at least, it is written in the commen lease form used that tenants are required to have a carpet professionally cleaned on move out, and I'm not sure that was done.

But it seems to me, you are basically saying that we could replace the carpet every time, a tenant could destroy to the point of needing replacement and and it's "reasonable wear and tear" and they get off scott free? That seems odd....Dirty carpet that needs a clean and is fine afterwards I understand, but stains that are irreparable?

 

[House Cat]

From what I understand, issues such as carpet vary from state to state.

"Normal wear and tear" is defined differently by each state, so is paint on the walls. I think after a certain number of years, the tenant isn't responsible for anything at all in regards to carpet or paint unless it is specified in the lease.


You will have to find out what your state specifies and what your lease specified and go from there.

 

[bunnycat]

From what I understand, issues such as carpet vary from state to state.

"Normal wear and tear" is defined differently by each state, so is paint on the walls. I think after a certain number of years, the tenant isn't responsible for anything at all in regards to carpet or paint unless it is specified in the lease.


You will have to find out what your state specifies and what your lease specified and go from there.

Hmm, I guess I'll have to check in to that.

The kitchen tile chip is another one. It's not something like a little ding that a little polish can cover. It's larger than the size of a quarter.

 

[amc80]

It depends on the state, but there are lists out there that tell you what the life is of almost anything. Carpet is generally around 5 years, give or take for the quality of the carpet. You have to look at the depreciable life. For example, if you installed new carpet and depreciated it over 5 years, and the tenant lived there 3 years and completely ruined it, you could only hold them responsible for 2/5 of the value (the remaining life). Paint is the same way. If they've lived there long enough you can't charge for paint.

 

[iLander]

Get a carpet cleaner in there and see if he can get rid of the stains. I usually call someone with "Chem Dry" in the name, and that works the best. Call around for tile repair to cover the chip, or get a bottle of nail polish that matches the glaze color and paint over the terra cotta. You gotta be a little resourceful to be a landlord.

You can also do carpet repair if you have any pieces handy. Just look in the phone book. If you don't have extra, they usually cut a piece out from under where the bed usually is, and swap the pieces.

A chipped tile, dirty carpet, all normal wear and tear. Hole in the drywall, broken appliances, bashed garage door, that's out of the deposit. Carpet cleaning, deep cleaning by maids, interior/exterior paint touchup, that's all landlord requirements. Good news is all of those costs are deductible.

If you decide to keep any of the deposit, you usually need to notify the tenant in writing within 30 days of vacancy, at least in my state. Google "tenant rights (your state name)" or "renter rights (your state name)", that should tell you a lot.

Well, the managment company will be figuring some of this out. In our state, at least, it is written in the commen lease form used that tenants are required to have a carpet professionally cleaned on move out, and I'm not sure that was done.

But it seems to me, you are basically saying that we could replace the carpet every time, a tenant could destroy to the point of needing replacement and and it's "reasonable wear and tear" and they get off scott free? That seems odd....Dirty carpet that needs a clean and is fine afterwards I understand, but stains that are irreparable?

Where did I say that? I said try to have it cleaned, and that you can have it repaired. I said carpet cleaning is standard.

 

[LAJennifer]

I'm a landlord. If the tenant was there only 2 years, I would deduct for a carpet shampoo, deep clean by Merry Maids or the like, and the cost to repair the tile.

I have the same clause in my leases that the tenants are responsible for changing the A/C filters. However, I provide new ones every 3 months to ensure they are changed.

If you are in the same city, I would probably ditch the management company and do it yourself.

 

[bunnycat]

I'm a landlord. If the tenant was there only 2 years, I would deduct for a carpet shampoo, deep clean by Merry Maids or the like, and the cost to repair the tile.

I have the same clause in my leases that the tenants are responsible for changing the A/C filters. However, I provide new ones every 3 months to ensure they are changed.

If you are in the same city, I would probably ditch the management company and do it yourself.

Thanks LAJ. I remember seeing somewhere you were a landlord.

I do believe they shampooed the carpet. A receipt for professional cleaning was supposed to be supplied on moveout and so I will have to check and see if that was done or if they just rented a cleaner from the store which wasn't able to get whatever that massive stain is out.

Luckily, we have a really really good handy guy who helped up with the remodel of the house we are in, and if anyone can find a way to cut out just a tile or two and replace, he can. That's assuming we actually have some leftover tiles that match the chipped one/s. If not, I guess that's a whole new story....

I think that's a good idea on the A/C. I thought we had left multiple spare filters there, but can't recall if they were ever used. I'll be checking that out today. Clearly, though, we aren't ready to be landlords sans management company. We'd be taken for a huge ride, no doubt. It's just not in our personalities to do this sort of thing but neither of us feels driven to sell just yet...could be soon though....

 

[tammy77]

It depends on the state, but there are lists out there that tell you what the life is of almost anything. Carpet is generally around 5 years, give or take for the quality of the carpet. You have to look at the depreciable life. For example, if you installed new carpet and depreciated it over 5 years, and the tenant lived there 3 years and completely ruined it, you could only hold them responsible for 2/5 of the value (the remaining life). Paint is the same way. If they've lived there long enough you can't charge for paint.

This. The stain in the living room is beyond "reasonable wear" since the rest of the carpet is still acceptable. If it can't be repaired, you'll need to figure out what the remaining years of useful life should be. The tenant should only pay for the remaining time it would have been good for.

The tile situation is tough. It's flooring though, so I believe it would be a similar scenario. You have to show that you've tried everything to repair it before replacing it and charging them. Is it in a location where it's possible to put a pretty design in with a few special decorative tiles or something like that? Here's an example, but I'm not too crazy about the specific design. http://theflooringgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/Tile-inlay-300x225.jpg

This one is really pretty to me, but probably too "over the top". http://www.susanjablon.com/userfiles/mosaic%20kitchen%20floor%20insert%203.jpg

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If you have a stain in the carpet and a chip in the tile, but all else is good, then I would think you got off pretty lucky! It could be worse. And, people have to live and accidents happen. As a renter, I am so paranoid about every itty bitty thing b/c we paid a $1500 damage deposit I would have to grab my lease from upstairs, but I do know that we're either required to have a professional service clean the carpet upon moving out or have the cost of one to come in deducted from our damage deposit. If a huge stain like that happened, I would guess our deposit would be gone...but you know, almost EVERY time I've tried to get a deposit back, it's been a huge pain the ass, but I have gotten them back because in nearly EVERY case, the landlord (and even management companies) do not follow the law and I catch them on a technicality, so in your situation, read the laws VERY closely and be sure to send out letters w/in appropriate time-limits. One of my landlords tried to keep our $1800 deposit because the bamboo didn't look the same as when she moved out and the yard needed work, but she had up to a certain number of days after we moved out to inform us why she wasn't going to refund us. She missed the deadline so I negotiated to make for a fair refund as I discovered due to her error, she would owe me 3 times my refund if I took her to small claims and won.

My point: Read your state laws...and do not assume your management co knows them for you.

 

[bunnycat]

If you have a stain in the carpet and a chip in the tile, but all else is good, then I would think you got off pretty lucky! It could be worse. And, people have to live and accidents happen. As a renter, I am so paranoid about every itty bitty thing b/c we paid a $1500 damage deposit I would have to grab my lease from upstairs, but I do know that we're either required to have a professional service clean the carpet upon moving out or have the cost of one to come in deducted from our damage deposit. If a huge stain like that happened, I would guess our deposit would be gone...but you know, almost EVERY time I've tried to get a deposit back, it's been a huge pain the a$$, but I have gotten them back because in nearly EVERY case, the landlord (and even management companies) do not follow the law and I catch them on a technicality, so in your situation, read the laws VERY closely and be sure to send out letters w/in appropriate time-limits. One of my landlords tried to keep our $1800 deposit because the bamboo didn't look the same as when she moved out and the yard needed work, but she had up to a certain number of days after we moved out to inform us why she wasn't going to refund us. She missed the deadline so I negotiated to make for a fair refund as I discovered due to her error, she would owe me 3 times my refund if I took her to small claims and won.

My point: Read your state laws...and do not assume your management co knows them for you.

MC- You are probably right there. We are going to have to know what the laws are ourselves and not rely on the mangement co.

APparently this person is a nut case. Apparently they paid rent multiple times late and were charged late fees and threatened legal action because of the late fees. The also made multiple emergency repair calls which we got billed for and paid for unnecessary "emergencies". In one instance, the refrigerator door did not close in the manner the tenant expected (automatically) and called a repair person to "fix" it when in fact, it just doesn't do what they expected. Another call was made to "fix" the microwave when in reality they just didn't know how to operate it. Apparently we got threatened with legal action again for attempting to refuse paying for these unnecessary calls that were not emergencies, but user error.

So, I'm a little (understandablly???) nervous here on the potential issues involved surrounding this person....

This is the tile "chip" (more like a deep chunk). It's no where near anywhere that can be decorated and I still have no word on whether on ruined tile is fixable or whether we're just going to have to eventually replace the entire kitchen floor.




Here's the 2 ft long stain on the carpet. The rest of the carpet in the house is fine. But the stain was so bad, the realtor (IMO incorrectly, and without our consent) assured the new tenant the carpet would be replaced...Th whole thing is (not surprisingly) starting to get weird....

 

[LAJennifer]

Don't be afraid of these people. Just read your lease - this kind of damage is what a security deposit is for. If you don't mind disclosing, what state are you in? Also, did you select the tenant or did the management co do it for you?

Management companies are never out for your best interest. They are out to get your money. I honestly believe you would be better served handling it yourself. If you show the condo yourself, and carefully select the tenant - you will have the least amount of problems. You are no longer a faceless, greedy owner and the tenant is more likely to take better care of the place because the have a "personal" relationship with you.

Are you on the FB group? I would be happy to share my lease with you.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Today is May 1st. When did the tenants move out? I don't know what state you're located in, but go check RIGHT NOW and see how many days you have to provide *in writing* why you're not refunding the entire deposit. Keep in mind, if you miss that deadline, if your state has the same as mine, you automatically have to refund the ENTIRE amount regardless of how they left the unit. Send out the letter AS A DOCUMENT and have it notarized and sent certified. DO NOT send by email!

Now, another question...how much was the damage deposit? Was it equal to one month's rent? That would be the LEAST amount the damage deposit should be for. Never make it less than a month of rent for any future rental situation.

That said, I'm not sure about the tile, but the chip could have been from a slightly cracked tile that was vunerable, so I'm not sure about that. As far as the carpet...get it in writing that it cannot be cleaned and get an estimate that will show you have justifiable reason for keeping the damage deposit to replace the carpet. Sorry you're having to deal with that.

So basically, they are nutty, but what can they do? If you can prove you can keep the deposit by the legal date, they cannot do any recourse. Don't miss the date! They can't do anything about it. If they are SUPER nutty, like freaking you out nutty, then, if they keep bothering you keep records of any contact made and slap a restraining order on them. lol Ugh... Where are they moving? Hopefully FAR AWAY!

Good luck.

 

[bunnycat]

Thank LAJ and MC. I'm certainly going to be doing some reading up.

LAJ- We are in TX and the management company uses a lease form that is common here.

MC- Thye moved out Sunday, though I think the lease officially ended Monday (but what a bad day to move!). I believe we have 30 days to inform them.

As yet, no quotes are in yet on repairs. I am going to text the guy we use most a pic. He's about the only one I'd trust to try the tile problem anyway.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Yep, you have 30 days. In WA it is 14 days and two of my previous landlords missed that. One even tried to doctor up a fake email after I told her she missed the date! Lol. That is why it is best to have written documents. You don't want the tenants doing something like that.

 

[bunnycat]

LAJ- I got a copy of hwat is used here in TX most commonly for leasing, and was used for the lease form of the previous tenant. Let's just say it appears TX is very landlord friendly, which is not surprising. Helpful right now, but if I were a renter, geez...(But then again, in the past when I have rented, I left the property in nothing less than immacualte condition....)

The carpet will be a cheap fix, I think compared to the tile. The trouble is, it is already rented and new people moving in in less than 2 weeks. We have just long enough to schedule new carpet, but not long enough to do anything serious about the tile other than attempt a repair and hope surrounding tiles aren't damaged as we only have 2 spare matching tiles. Now I have to figure out if we can keep (some/all?) of the deposit towards a new tile floor if the repair is a failure.

Just in case you feel like reading a portion of a common TX lease form:


10. SECURITY DEPOSIT:

• Security Deposit: On or before execution of this lease, Tenant will pay a security deposit to Landlord in the amount of $ xxxx . "Security deposit" has the meaning assigned to that term in §92.102, Property Code. )

• Interest: No interest or income will be paid to Tenant on the security deposit. Landlord may place the security deposit in an interest-bearing or income-producing account and any interest or income earned will be paid to Landlord or Landlord's representative.

• Refund: Tenant must give Landlord at least thirty (30) days written notice of surrender before Landlord is obligated to refund or account for the security deposit.

Notices about Security Deposits:
(1) §92.108, Property Code provides that a tenant may not withhold payment of any portion of the last month's rent on grounds that the security deposit is security for unpaid rent.
• (2) Bad faith violations of §92.108 may subject a tenant to liability up to 3 times the rent wrongfully withheld and the landlord's reasonable attorney's fees.

• (3) The Property Code does not obligate a landlord to return or account for the security deposit until the tenant surrenders the Property and gives the landlord a written statement of the tenant's forwarding address, after which the landlord has 30 days in which to account.

• (4) "Surrender" is defined in Paragraph 16 of this lease.

• (5) One may view the Texas Property Code at the Texas Legislature's website which, as of the date shown in the lower left-hand corner of this form, is http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/..

D. Deductions:

• (1) Landlord may deduct reasonable charges from the security deposit for:

• (a) damages to the Property, excluding normal wear and tear, and all reasonable costs associated to repair the Property;

• (b) costs for which Tenant is responsible to clean, deodorize, exterminate, and maintain the Property;

• (c) unpaid or accelerated rent;

• (d) unpaid late charges;

• (e) unpaid utilities and utility expenses Landlord incurs to maintain utilities to the Property as required by this Lease;

• (f) unpaid pet charges;

• (g) replacing unreturned keys, garage door openers, security devices, or other components;

• (h) the removal of unauthorized locks or fixtures installed by Tenant;

• (i) Landlord's cost to access the Property if made inaccessible by Tenant;

• (j) missing or burned-out light bulbs and fluorescent tubes (at the same location and of the same type and quality that are in the Property on the Commencement Date);

• (k) packing,removing,and storing abandoned property;

• (l) removing abandoned or illegally parked vehicles;

• (m) costs of reletting (as defined in Paragraph 27), if Tenant is in default;

• (n) attorney's fees, costs of court, costs of service, and other reasonable costs incurred in any legal proceeding against Tenant;

• (o) mailing costs associated with sending notices to Tenant for any violations of this lease;

• (p) any other unpaid charges or fees or other items for which Tenant is responsible under this lease; and

• (q) cost to restore walls, flooring, landscaping or any alteration to the Property not approved in writing by Landlord.

• (2) If deductions exceed the security deposit, Tenant will pay to Landlord the excess within 10 days after Landlord makes written demand.

16. MOVE-OUT:

A. Move-Out Condition: When this lease ends, Tenant will surrender the Property in the same condition as when received, normal wear and tear excepted. Tenant will leave the Property in a clean condition free of all trash, debris, and any personal property. Tenant may not abandon the Property.

• Definitions:

(1) "Normal wear and tear" means deterioration that occurs without negligence, carelessness, accident, or abuse.

(2) "Surrender" occurs when all occupants have vacated the Property, in Landlord's reasonable judgment, and one of the following events occurs:
(a) the date Tenant specifies as the move-out or termination date in a written notice to Landlord has passed; or (b) Tenant returns keys and access devices that Landlord provided to Tenant under this lease.

 

[webdiva]

Can you find replacement tile that's the same? A good tile layer can chisel out that tile and put in a new one.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Can you find replacement tile that's the same? A good tile layer can chisel out that tile and put in a new one.

She has two matching spare ones. It would make the most sense to try what you're suggesting, Webdiva, and see if a good tile layer can replace the chipped one. At this time, it wouldn't be good to replace all the tiles while it's a rental unit. Save the redo for right before selling.

 

[Clairitek]

Can you find replacement tile that's the same? A good tile layer can chisel out that tile and put in a new one.

She has two matching spare ones. It would make the most sense to try what you're suggesting, Webdiva, and see if a good tile layer can replace the chipped one. At this time, it wouldn't be good to replace all the tiles while it's a rental unit. Save the redo for right before selling.

I agree that the kitchen tile can be carefully removed and replaced with a spare.

As for the carpet, if you were planning to replace it anyway I am not positive it is fair to charge them for that. Charge for a cleaning, yes. Charge for replacement, no. And since they didn't really clean that well otherwise I would also charge them for that. For my last lease I was required to show a receipt for carpet cleaning upon move-out (or they could just deduct the expense from my deposit) and I left the place SPOTLESS. Anyone who leaves a giant mess should expect to be charged to clean it (unless the place was a mess when they moved in, which it doesn't sound like it was).

 

[amc80]

As for the carpet, if you were planning to replace it anyway I am not positive it is fair to charge them for that. Charge for a cleaning, yes. Charge for replacement, no. And since they didn't really clean that well otherwise I would also charge them for that. For my last lease I was required to show a receipt for carpet cleaning upon move-out (or they could just deduct the expense from my deposit) and I left the place SPOTLESS. Anyone who leaves a giant mess should expect to be charged to clean it (unless the place was a mess when they moved in, which it doesn't sound like it was).

Agreed. We have it in our tenant's lease that they must have it professionally cleaned and provide receipts.

 

[bunnycat]

Thanks all. Yes- I have someone I would trust to be careful to try to replace the one tile. I already showed him a pic and he seems to think it'll be fine.

On the carpet, we had considered replacing the downstairs after they moved out, until we found out the new renter's have a dog, whereupon we hoped it had enough left in it for one last round since it wasn't going to make a lot of sense to put new carpet in with a pet coming in. As I said, the rest of the house is fine, but that entire entryway is hosed so we lost our gamble on that and that part is the most grey area on whether she should have some sort of partial charge or not since the realtor told them we would replace it. Except for the obvious staining, the wear on it is not bad for it's age. When hubby lived there he didn't even wear shoes in the house. They came off at the entry tile.

Sorry I'll be out a lot today and can't check til late on this. I have doctors appt scheduled that will take most of the afternoon.

 

[tammy77]

Thanks all. Yes- I have someone I would trust to be careful to try to replace the one tile. I already showed him a pic and he seems to think it'll be fine.

On the carpet, we had considered replacing the downstairs after they moved out, until we found out the new renter's have a dog, whereupon we hoped it had enough left in it for one last round since it wasn't going to make a lot of sense to put new carpet in with a pet coming in. As I said, the rest of the house is fine, but that entire entryway is hosed so we lost our gamble on that and that part is the most grey area on whether she should have some sort of partial charge or not since the realtor told them we would replace it. Except for the obvious staining, the wear on it is not bad for it's age. When hubby lived there he didn't even wear shoes in the house. They came off at the entry tile.

Sorry I'll be out a lot today and can't check til late on this. I have doctors appt scheduled that will take most of the afternoon.

Regarding what the property manager verbally told her without your consent, well that's unfortunate but it's not in writing on their lease so it's null and void IMO.

 

[LAJennifer]

Thanks all. Yes- I have someone I would trust to be careful to try to replace the one tile. I already showed him a pic and he seems to think it'll be fine.

On the carpet, we had considered replacing the downstairs after they moved out, until we found out the new renter's have a dog, whereupon we hoped it had enough left in it for one last round since it wasn't going to make a lot of sense to put new carpet in with a pet coming in. As I said, the rest of the house is fine, but that entire entryway is hosed so we lost our gamble on that and that part is the most grey area on whether she should have some sort of partial charge or not since the realtor told them we would replace it. Except for the obvious staining, the wear on it is not bad for it's age. When hubby lived there he didn't even wear shoes in the house. They came off at the entry tile.

Sorry I'll be out a lot today and can't check til late on this. I have doctors appt scheduled that will take most of the afternoon.

Regarding what the property manager verbally told her without your consent, well that's unfortunate but it's not in writing on their lease so it's null and void IMO.

Yes, this.