anybody got an ASET pic on a 8* ?

[Dancing Fire]

just curious.

 

[joycer]

I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago... I''m really curious to see one myself. Do any of the 8* dealers on pricescope that bought an ASET in Vegas have pictures for us? I''m also curious to know how consistent their images are. When you buy an 8* you know what to expect from the firescope, but could there be a lot of variation in the ASET images? I know 8* uses a Gilbertsonscope when they cut, so I wonder if they''re ahead of the pack with the ASET.

-joycer

 

[Rhino]

Many of us, at this point are hesitant on posting ASET images for public display if any sincere attempt is to be made at presenting accurate gemological information. I''ve been sending some to clients via email but I am careful to explain the limitations. Once those of us on the list who are in line for desktop models receive them and experiment more with the photography, enough to be able to present accurate and informative data I believe you''ll be seeing a heckuva lot more of these images. Personally I am a stickler for perfection so I will not publish ASET images until I have it down pat and also wherein we will be able to teach with coherency how to interpret the images we take. It is also of utmost importance to understand the limitations of this technology. There is information that is not garnered from the ASET which we''ll be covering in a tutorial we''re putting together on the subject. Ie. A diamond can have a WONDERFUL ASET image yet not receive an Ideal grade. More on that in the coming weeks.

Out of respect for EightStar I would not present an EightStar image if it can''t be done with the accuracy it deserves. Once we master it I''ll be happy to show.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is as digitally accurate as possible in that it is a DiamCalc modeled image of an 8* based on the best Sarin scan I have of an 8*

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

And this is the same stone as a DiamCalc version of the Gilbertsonscope as described on www.diamond-cut.com.au

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 6/30/2005 10:51:33 PM
Author: Rhino

Many of us, at this point are hesitant on posting ASET images for public display if any sincere attempt is to be made at presenting accurate gemological information. I've been sending some to clients via email but I am careful to explain the limitations. Once those of us on the list who are in line for desktop models receive them and experiment more with the photography, enough to be able to present accurate and informative data I believe you'll be seeing a heckuva lot more of these images.

This is our position as well. Thanks Jonathan.

 

[Rhino]

Garry... looking back at the GilbertsonScope ... it only accounts for a 14 degree obscuration. At what distance from the viewers eyes do you think that would account for?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/1/2005 2:41:38 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 6/30/2005 10:51:33 PM

Author: Rhino


Many of us, at this point are hesitant on posting ASET images for public display if any sincere attempt is to be made at presenting accurate gemological information. I''ve been sending some to clients via email but I am careful to explain the limitations. Once those of us on the list who are in line for desktop models receive them and experiment more with the photography, enough to be able to present accurate and informative data I believe you''ll be seeing a heckuva lot more of these images.

This is our position as well. Thanks Jonathan.

Ditto here. My hand held pictures just are not sufficiently good to allow me to post.

FYI, EightStar was very involved with the research for the AGS cutting grades early on and in fact sold the technology for the ASET to AGS. It was originally the Gilbertson scope that was created by Mr. Gilbertson, I believe while he was working for EightStar, but it could have been prior to, I am not sure. When he left EightStar to go to work for GIA he very ethically left the rights to the Gilbertson scope at EightStar.

I remember the excitement at EightStar when they first contracted to work with AGS in developing a proformance based grading system, and now that it is a reality I am especially pleased with the results.

Wink

 

[Rhino]

Same here Wink.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I first met Righard and Al Gilbertson at the Second GIA symposium in San Diego in 1999. Al was doing a poster display there and they were both on a "cut War Room" panel. Wink your account is accurate I think - Al was on he AGS cut panel and Richard and he jointly did the Gilbertson Scope patent (I believe). When Al was offered a role on the gIA cut study team he severed the previous AGSconnections, but i do not believe he ever was "employed" by 8*.

Rhino I think the black 7 (or 14) degree observer head represents the current thinking about obstruction at the time. Or maybe it was simply a hole for viewing

As you know i prefer 25 dergees, AGS likes 30 to 40.

This chart is from Moscow and is not neccisarily Al's preferred version. But essentially the GS gives even more info than the red reflectors or the ASET - but maybe it is even too much?

(edited a bit)

 

[Rhino]

Very interesting. I have LightScope setup to around 27-28 degres. A little investigation ... Al Gilbertson didn't have any set angles in mind when he developed his scope including the 7 degree radius nor did he have any particular angles in mind (from what I have learned) with the various colors. As I understand it was all investigative at the time with no concrete solutions as to the angles and obscuration. Perhaps the chart represents what DiamCalc has edited the colors to be from from what I understand its not Al's final and conclusive research. Even the pix we used to take in the official 8* released GilbertsonScope, they were quite different from the MSU results. Just thought I'd add my .02c from what I've heard and clarify.

All interesting stuff.

So Garry... based on the MSU GilbertsonScope setup... put, in layman's terms what each color represents similar to the ASET angle of entry. Ie. On ASET 0-45 degrees angle of entry represents green. 45-75, red. Break down the MSU version of Gilbertson for us.

 

[Serg]

re:I took angles from GPL

Probably it was Gem Profiles site.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Yes Rhino- this MSU version is just like ASET, but with different structure.
ASET has 0-15 blue which would extend just into the red zone. And yes you are correct - the red on ASET continues right through to the pale blue on the MSU GS.

BTW, for the development of HCA I paid my daughter and a student to make charts in table size ranges from 53% to 65% in 1% steps (13 charts) in the pattern shown here.
There were 3 sets of charts - one as shown here in DiamCalc Reslistic jewelry store lighting, one set in the then Firescope (pre ideal-scope modeling) and one set of MSU Gilbertsonscope. The same process aGS now use to select the desirable ranges of proportion sets for further anaylsis.

The files were so big i put them on another computer and I can not find a copy. they were really pretty

 

[RockDoc]

Hi Dancing

Here are some real images of an Eightstar.

Not computer generated, but actual 8* photos using the Desktop.

I am quickly honing in on getting them a bit better and a bit more accurate.

This one at 5700 kelvin

Rockdoc

(C) 2005 Consumers Gem Lab

 

[RockDoc]

This one using the black cup......

Additional more improved ones next week.

Rockdoc
(C) 2005 Consumers Gem Lab

 

[Rhino]

Neat Bill,

What''s the carat weight on this one?

 

[RockDoc]

Hi Rhino


This one is weighs in at 0.81 carats.

GOT SNOW?

Rockdoc

 

[Rhino]

Date: 12/10/2005 12:38:17 AM
Author: RockDoc


Hi Rhino


This one is weighs in at 0.81 carats.

GOT SNOW? <G>

Rockdoc

Decent shot. At least you can make out all your reds/greens/blues. Its extremely difficult to get the lighting perfect hence all the variations on the blues not to mention glare from extraneous light. I feel your pain.

Actually the snow kinda missed us here on the south shore of Long Island. It was mixed with rain and by the time it was all over the snow was gone and I was able to take my rear wheel drive Batmobile to work today.

North, west and east of us were all hit though.

 

[Dancing Fire]

RD
thanks,nice shots.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/1/2005 1:19:23 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
This is as digitally accurate as possible in that it is a DiamCalc modeled image of an 8* based on the best Sarin scan I have of an 8*

Gary,

This is the problem with patterning after a scan rather than the real deal. I have NEVER EVER NEVER NEVER EVER seen an EightStar with a crooked head such as you are showing in the five and eight o''clock positions.

I have the desktop model, but have not had time yet to figure out photography well, although I just got a new toy from a friend that should help. When I get a chance I will play and if the results are as I hope I will share.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

LOL! What a difference a day makes. I completely did not realize how old this thread was or that I had already commented earlier in the thread and especially that I had seen Gary''s computer generated picture before without noting the offset heads.

Amazing. Some days your eyes work, and others the see but do not see...

Wink

 

[Rhino]

Based on a Helium model.

 

[Iiro]

Wow, striking difference to the Sarin model!

 

[Rhino]

I''d say so. Helium kicks major mojo when it comes to model making. Have you seen the reports it produces my old friend? Good to cya around.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/10/2005 2:51:26 PM
Author: Rhino
I''d say so. Helium kicks major mojo when it comes to model making. Have you seen the reports it produces my old friend? Good to cya around.

Rhino

Interesting image. I recently upgraded to Diam Calc 2.4

Still messing around with the images it shows for the ASET model. But in that they aren''t the same as what my eye sees,I''m real hesitant to post them in a way that might be different, and not accurate.

As I am sure you''re aware that with DC even the firescope image model does not correlate to what your eye sees particularly for eightstars.

But DC is far advanced of anything else, and Sergey has certainly put forth a mountainous effort in attempting to get the program right. Due to that I do applaud his efforts and that of Moscow U and his help from Garry.

I do have another far better image to post, but the printer that I use to access the camera photo card is having a problem, so they are sending me a new printer. Once it''s here I''ll post it. Meanwhile I may try to get it thorugh my second printer - but then it has to be imported to a cd disk, and then uploaded as this computer and the one with dc and the photos card is another computer so... I may try ..

But since I am a self proclaimed "compu grape" I may not be able to achieve that

No smowman for you - this weekend huh?

Batmobile? HAHAH.... I asked Charlie about that this morning, and he told me your Batmobile is actually a trans am. And here I thought you actually bought one they used in the Batman movies !!!

LOL

Rockdoc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/10/2005 4:12:39 PM
Author: RockDoc

Date: 12/10/2005 2:51:26 PM
Author: Rhino
I''d say so. Helium kicks major mojo when it comes to model making. Have you seen the reports it produces my old friend? Good to cya around.

Rhino

Interesting image. I recently upgraded to Diam Calc 2.4

Still messing around with the images it shows for the ASET model. But in that they aren''t the same as what my eye sees,I''m real hesitant to post them in a way that might be different, and not accurate.

As I am sure you''re aware that with DC even the firescope image model does not correlate to what your eye sees particularly for eightstars.

But DC is far advanced of anything else, and Sergey has certainly put forth a mountainous effort in attempting to get the program right. Due to that I do applaud his efforts and that of Moscow U and his help from Garry.

I do have another far better image to post, but the printer that I use to access the camera photo card is having a problem, so they are sending me a new printer. Once it''s here I''ll post it. Meanwhile I may try to get it thorugh my second printer - but then it has to be imported to a cd disk, and then uploaded as this computer and the one with dc and the photos card is another computer so... I may try ..

But since I am a self proclaimed ''compu grape'' I may not be able to achieve that <G>

No smowman for you - this weekend huh?

Batmobile? HAHAH.... I asked Charlie about that this morning, and he told me your Batmobile is actually a trans am. And here I thought you actually bought one they used in the Batman movies !!!

LOL

Rockdoc

Rockdoc here is an interesting idea for you.

Diamcalc from a super accurate helium scan makes a Firescope, ASET or Ideal-scope model that is digitally dead accurate.
This is also repeatable.

A photo using an optical device, a camera and lighting that is not universally non directional - you seem tho think DiamCalc should mimic art.

Perhaps the art should strive to mimic DiamCalc''s thorough accuracy?

This could be even more true for the AGS approach since they are quantifying digital ASET data via pixel counting based on 3D models.

 

[Rhino]

Good point Garry. The models are dead on and repeatable. While I''ve been doing our scans at 800 steps, I find that even the scans at 400 steps (half the capacity) produce results like no other. I especially like the princess reports.

 

[valeria101]

I must be missing something... where does the match fail?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ana use draft and double reflection mode

 

[Rhino]

LOL... I can just see Ana walking into a store with her laptop and DiamCalc asking ... what do you have that looks like this?