Any teachers up for giving me some advice?

[luckystar112]

I''m at a crossroads and I need to start making some big decisions soon. I graduate in the Spring and pretty much only have two options available to me in order for me to start teaching: Apply to Grad school or get an Alternative Teaching Certification. I just don''t know what to do.

Pros of ATC: There are a million programs out there and most of them get you into the classroom very fast (I believe the first year of teaching you''re on probation). One of the programs would allow me to take classes over the summer and then set me up with a school in the fall.

Cons of ATC: It costs a few thousand dollars and I could be wrong but I don''t believe that grants or any other type of aid is available for this fast-track program. The other con is that it is only for K-12, which I like but was not my first choice.


Pros of Grad school: A Masters would allow me to work at a Community College, which is where I''d ultimately like to end up. Then of course there is the ultimate pro that it is another degree. If I can''t find a job at a Community College a Masters will let me get a job at a K-12 anyway. Plus, it appears that many schools around the country are starting to make a Master''s a requirement. A lot of programs are only 30-36 hours and some Universities even allow you to take all your classes online.

Cons: More school. More time. More money. More putting my life on hold. I feel as though I am so far behind everyone else my age. DH cannot stand his job and so I''ve really been looking forward to bringing in a real income to give him some relief. The income from a real job would enable us to save up some money to leave Texas--something we both want immensely. Plus we want to have kids soon! Finally, there is a very small chance that someone can get DH a job in the northeast. If that happens we''d have to pick up and leave, and from what I understand you can usually only transfer 6 credits?


So, I met with my advisor today and I asked for her honest advice. She told me to go for my Masters. She is working on hers right now and she said that one of her biggest regrets was not doing it right away. This was not a lure to get me to join one of my school''s programs; she recommended a completely different University.

If you were me, what would you do?

1) Get your ATC and be done with it. Worry about grad school later! You''ve suffered enough! Getting your ATC will enable you to earn an income right away and you can always go to grad school once you know where you''ll be settling down.

2) Get Grad school over with! What''s another year and a half? It is essential to getting a job today, especially in this economy. Plus you can probably get a job teaching at a private or charter school somewhere while working toward your degree online. Worry about moving when and if it happens.

3) ______(Fill in the blank)______




I''m apologizing in advance for my million grammatical errors!

 

[DiamanteBlu]

I lean towards the Master Degree also because, once you have it, you have increased flexibility being able to teach at the college level as an adjunct.

What is your field of interest? What are your employment goals? How do you see yourself evolving, in the professional sense, in the future. Where do you see yourself in 3, 5, 10, 20 years? I may be able to give you more useful comments if I knew a bit more about those things.

BTW, I am biased - I have a bunch of degrees [the joke is that I pile the diplomas up in the corner] in Math and Business. LOL! I was then an adjunct professor for 20 years at Northeastern University [ret''d in 1992] - first in the math department and then in the business school while I was pursuing my business trajectory [won''t bore you with the gory details!]. So I might be able to give you some better commentary if I have more info if you feel comfortable in sharing.

 

[KimberlyH]

Grad school. If you want to teach at the CC level you should go down that path. You may regret not doing so later. Burn out rates are high, and I imagine for someone to go into a sector of education they don''t love or feel passionate about they would be even higher.

I opted for grad school (and a not so great program) because it automatically places me in the last pay column (in my state where doesn''t matter, just that you''ve gone). It also meant that I could explore other options more easily. It was hard work, but I am so glad I have done so.

 

[Haven]

Grad school, definitely.

I started out teaching in a community college, moved to high school for three years, and now I''m back at the CC. I am so grateful that I have the flexibility to teach any grade level from K through adult, and if I didn''t I would be stuck working for a school I no longer believe in.

I''m not sure how CCs work in other states, but here in Illinois you''ll find that very few people leave a CC position because they are such wonderful places to work. High school is a much more rigorous age to teach here, and it takes a lot more of your time outside of work. A full-time CC instructor''s teaching load is 12 to 15 hours per work, versus a full-time HS teacher''s teaching load of 25 hours per week. In addition, in my experience I was forced to take on extra-curriculars while teaching HS that took an exorbitant amount of time outside of the regular work day. I was the head coach for the school''s speech team, which required HOURS of practice every week, full-day Saturday tournaments, and a ton of paperwork.

I''ve only taught grades K - 8 on a part-time basis in a gifted program through a local university, so I don''t have first-hand experience to share regarding the work load and such. I will say that 4th grade is my all time favorite, though, for the younger grades. They''re the perfect age!

Certification requirements differ by state, but in Illinois you can earn your teaching cert without getting the full master''s degree, provided that you have a BA or BS in a core content area. This might be a good option for you if you''d prefer to get into the classroom sooner, and spend a bit less on your education. The program I went through to become certified to teach English for grades 6-12 took only 9 months. I earned 19 grad hours, and that was all I needed, as I have a BA in English.

Once you earn your master''s, you can contact your local CC to apply for an adjunct teaching position. Most CCs have to rely on their adjuncts to teach a huge amount of their courses because of budget issues, so it''s likely that you could get a position. That''s a great way to get some experience, and to see the difference for yourself.

Good luck! Make sure to start meeting as many connections as you can in the education field. If your state is anything like mine, getting a position is all about who you know. It''s sad, but very true.

 

[Elmorton]

I'm a little confused - will you have a teaching certification of some sort prior to enrolling in grad school? If so, I say grad school all the way. My biggest mistake was not getting a HS certification, and in my area, it's nearly impossible to go back and get one, and even though I have my MA, I can't teach HS. When I have a skimpy semester in terms of course load, I really wish I had a secondary ed degree to fall back on.

If you have a solid backup, then definitely grad school. Even if you don't have a solid backup plan, I'd still do grad school, since that's what I did.

I'm an adjunct, and pretty much ditto to everything Haven said. First, right now is a really good time to get into cc teaching because of the recession - enrollment is crazy high. That may change by the time you're done with your MA, but likely not. However, there's also the problem that as funding gets cut (which it is, everywhere), there are more part-time positions open and fewer full-time. That makes tenure-track positions very competitive which means you'll need to adjunct to get your foot in the door. Also, more and more colleges want to hire people with PhDs, because the market is pretty saturated.

For me, adjuncting works out fine. I'm building great relationships, and I have two colleges where I adjunct, so I typically carry a full class load (12-15 hrs) in addition to tutoring. Last year I also did some substitute teaching and freelance work. Most colleges only allow their adjuncts to teach a max of 9 hours a semester (I have done 12, but I knew that I'd be limited in the next semester), so that is something to consider if there is only one community college in driving distance. Trying to find another job that fits with an adjunct schedule can be incredibly tricky. In my worst semester, I had just a MWF class at 11 and a TR night class. I had a heck of a time finding anything to do part-time during the day or that I could do since I had a commitment at night.

The biggest downsides to adjuncting are that the pay is lousy, there's no insurance, and no guarantee you'll always have the classes you need/want. But, it's very akin to climbing the corporate ladder - I have my fingers crossed that in a few years I'll be able to nab a position as the baby boomers are retiring, yet there's clearly no guarantee.

In terms of grad school - if you want to go into cc instruction, find a graduate program that focuses on pedagogy. There are a LOT of people out there applying for jobs at a cc with an extremely specialized concentration, their focus is primarily on research, or have a theory-based background - since university positions are nearly impossible to get, these folks "step down" and apply at ccs - where they may or may not be welcomed. In my experience, having a research-specific mindset (as what is typically instilled in a traditional grad program) will not help you in an interview. Get as much experience in a cc as possible in your grad education - I took a couple courses specifically for cc instructors, took a couple courses for high school teachers (since I knew I'd also be teaching prep/not for credit courses), and I did independent studies in cc classrooms - it has helped me beyond measure.

 

[Haven]

El--Do you teach developmental courses? I teach a strategic reading and writing course, which grants elective credit but not English-specific credit for transfer purposes. The students in my class do not test into college-level English.

Just curious, as it sounds like we may teach the same type of course!

 

[Elegant]

Hi Luckystar,

I am a teacher in CA so I am a bit confused I guess - plus, I have 8 years of teaching experience, so this credential talk is a bit of a haze to me right now.

When I graduated from college with my bachelors degree, I had to go through a 1.5 year credential program that allows people to teach. I taught the first part of my school year on an emergency credential. Then I got my clear credential which allowed me to be a teacher wherever. During my second year of teaching I entered a Master''s in Curriculum and Instruction program. I did this right away. Then I went and entered a Master''s in Administration program at another school to get my Administrative credential. Then right after that I entered the doctoral program in Organizational Leadership and I am currently working on my dissertation.

In order to teach at the college level, you do need a Master''s degree...

So, I don''t know what I just said...but...go for the Master''s degree because you have a use for it. I have a crud load of degrees and right now I am OVER educated.

I can''t wait to get my doctorate so I can be a professor...

 

[Elmorton]

Haven - For awhile I had at least one section of developmental writing, but I haven''t in the past couple of semesters. While my comp I is usually pretty predictable, basic writing seems to have a lot more surprises both in terms of ability and experience of the students enrolled. Sometimes I absolutely love it, and other times it makes me want to climb up a wall.

Has enrollment skyrocketed where you are? All of my classes are full this semester. My area is a bit more rural/industrial, so pretty hard-hit with the economy, so I''m curious about larger metro areas.

Luckystar -- eek, I''m so sorry for the threadjack!

 

[Haven]

Lucky, I''m going to continue the threadjack, if you don''t mind.

El--We have seen huge increases in enrollment. Our school has recently implemented a "pay to stay" policy because we''ve had issues with collecting tuition, yet our numbers are still climbing. I''m in the county just north of Chicago''s Cook County, and we reach all the way up to the Wisconsin border. It makes for a very interesting mix of suburban and rural students.

I love teaching the developmental courses, but I suppose it''s because my master''s is in reading and literacy, so I''m specifically trained to work with developmental students. I do miss my English classes, but I''m considering getting my MA in English from Northwestern so I can teach English at the CC as well. I''m just not ready to go back to grad school yet, my last program knocked me out it was so demanding.

Lucky--Do you think you''ll want to teach CC in the long run? If so, then definitely go for the master''s. If you''ll want to teach somewhere in K-12, then either option has potential, it depends on what is available out there.

I actually obtained my first position as an adjunct CC instructor with only a BA degree. I called the department chair and told her that she wouldn''t be wasting her time meeting with me, and I basically sold myself as a dedicated and energetic instructor who was willing to do whatever it took to teach well. That is actually how I started teaching the developmental courses, some CCs *can* hire adjuncts with only BA degrees to teach the non-transfer credit courses. You may want to look into that option, if you''re interested in CC.

 

[swimmer]

Lucky,
If you were planning on staying in Texas I would say go alt cert to get ''er done. But alt cert does not travel. Esp not to NE. As you know, in order to get hired in a public school almost anywhere in NE you need a masters degree, there are just so many applicants out there... For this reason I would caution against an online degree. There was a panel on this at my state''s yearly social studies teacher conference and there was just disbelief that degrees could be earned online. Only one of the other people at the discussion would consider hiring a candidate with an online degree, and it turns out that he had received an online MBA...which I can see as being a far more attainable outside of the classroom degree. Now some people might be in awesome programs that are online, and that is awesome for them, but I saw a group of about 40 dept chairs just adamant that there was no way for a person to learn the skills necessary for being in front of kids while sitting on a laptop. Now there are some places in Maine or NH where there are real teacher shortages, rural areas, so those might be more flex with credentials.

Are there any programs where you can teach in a practicum setting in order to earn your masters at night? That was how I earned my masters right after college. I was employed and paid by Boston Public, but supervised by a university, and at the end of 16months I had a degree. Totally free Masters of Arts in Teaching History 8-12 plus .5 a teacher salary. This model is popular up here, not sure if it exists near you?

I hope that helps, there was also a recent debate on the nytimes website about the value of getting a masters, they decided it wasn''t unless it was an MBA or in some form of ed certification, but now the debate is over the usefulness of these degrees and how they relate to pay. Just some food for thought. link

 

[MsP]

Date: 8/27/2009 5:24:27 PM
Author:luckystar112

3) ______(Fill in the blank)______

Is there a reason why you couldn''t get the ATC, teach for a bit in K-12, and then do your masters online/at night while working in your K-12 position? I know it seems like a lot of work, but if you go and get your masters and cannot get a CC adjunct job, you cannot get a job K-12 either, right? Because you wouldn''t have your teaching cert... Perhaps it just my area of the country, but lots of the profs at my local CCs have their PhDs and are either retired, following a spouse, or trying to raise a family--but they have their PhD. It seems like many ladies on the board have other experiences, but this is mine.



... I am not from a field where a masters will let you teach anything--CC or not--and am not a teacher. I''m just an eternal college student... haha. I just enjoy decorating the walls with those beautifully framed pieces of paper!

 

[luckystar112]

All of this is so new to me. Forgive me if I don''t understand what some of you are talking about!

I am currently working on a B.S. in Interdisciplinary Studies. This degree has been a blessing since I don''t have to focus on just one subject, but unfortunately it doesn''t make me feel too confident in getting a position teaching a specific subject since my course load is all over the place (sociology classes, criminal justice classes, english classes, etc!)So, obviously those are the subjects that I would prefer teaching; I just feel like someone who majored in English is more likely to get the job over me.

Haven, the differences you listed between high school and CC are exactly why I would prefer to teach CC. I wish I had a more "professional" answer, but the truth is that quality of life is important to me and I would like there to be a clear line between work time and home time. I substitute teach at a Charter school right now (grades k-10) and so I know with absolute certainty that I can rule out grades 5-9 (I have not yet experienced grades 10-12). I do like the lower grades but I''m worried I would become bored with it very easily. If we were planning on staying in TX I am certain I could get a job with the CC that I went to. It''s kind of a bummer because they are such a great place to work! But I''m hoping that I can find the same thing elsewhere.

There are so many programs here it is insane, but it appears that you need your Bachelor''s degree to get certified, and many of them only certify you in one thing, like 6th grade science for example. I prefer more flexibility--what if I can''t find a position for a 6th grade science teacher?! Then what?

El Morten: No, I won''t have any certifications prior to enrolling in grad school. HOWEVER, I did meet a girl who told me that she wasn''t certified in anything either, but she somehow got some type of temporary teaching certificate for a specific subject and grade. The certifications require that you take some classroom management courses and the like, whereas she did none of those things but is still approved to teach specific subjects while working on that certification.......I think. It is SO confusing. What state do you live in?
If I get a Master''s that will be it for me--I have no plans to go on and get my Ph.D. I''m 26, I want babies, and I want to be done with school!

I hope that by the time I graduate they will still consider someone with just a little ole'' Masters!

What is pedagogy?!


I''m not done responding to each of you....but I will be back in an hour or so! I''m sorry! And don''t worry about thread jacking, I don''t care because I''m learning from that as well.

 

[KimberlyH]

Lucky, I can''t speak for Texas specifically, but I have never heard of a credential program that allows a teacher to cross over unless said teacher earns multiple credentials. So if you earn an elementary credential, that''s what you teach, if you earn a credential in math, that''s what you teach. In some states/districts I know there is flexbility, meaning you are alble to teach on an emergency credential for a set period time if you are earning a credential in that subect. Example: If you have a credential in English but want to teach SPED and the district is desperate for SPED teachers they will help you get an emergency credential to teach SPED while you take classes to earn the second credential. In the end you''d have two credentials, one in English and one in SPED. It is typically not extrodinarily difficult to earn additional credentials once you have one. So if you want to cross disciplines you would need to take several classes as opposed to a whole new program.

If you want to leave Texas the M.Ed will most likely serve your purposes much better than the alternative program.

I second the "it''s who you know, not what you know" that gets you a job. At least it''s true in CA as well.

Pedagogy is teaching/instructional methods.

 

[swimmer]

So what subject do you want to teach at a cc?

I've taught history and edu at both ccs and universities while being a hs teacher or on leaves from hs, (disclosure, I have an MAT in history and an MA in history and now almost done with an EdD -with another MEd along that process). I would agree that teaching hs takes way more time than the older students, but it depends on your school. Some public schools pressure teachers to do extras like Haven said, but some do not. I get paid about 4k per club I supervise so it is worth my while, no? Teaching at the cc level in the boston area is about 4-5k per course with benefits only if you are teaching 3 or more. I am not into living in this area (you know the costs) on 20k and schools try to keep everyone part time. The determination of the cc students is great, just like teaching honors jrs/srs seminar courses at the hs level. In hs, I've taught genocide studies, psychology, African history and cultures, Chinese history and art, current events, Facing History and Ourselves, anthropology, economics, for different semesters in addition to the basic US and modern world history year long course. Just wanted to give you a flavor for what you could do in the HS. Those were mostly upperclass electives, very fun for me and hopefully for the students. Every year I propose what I want to teach the following year and if kids sign up, we run it. The salary for most NE public school teachers are awesome, much more than you would find in Texas...plus like my district has in school day care for teachers and a pre-school, and kindergarten.

Pedagogy is methodology, that I have taught at universities for undergrads and grads. A methodology course for History teachers and just basic intro to edu seminar for about 100 freshman edu majors. Those jobs you can only get after more than 5 years in the teaching field I think. Haven's experience might be different though.

Note that the James Madison Memorial Fellowship Foundation is up to 28k in scholarship for people wanting to teach US history in the hs (or cc) levels. One per state and territory plus one from Iraq are selected every year. That paid for my second masters. Ted Kennedy and Orin Hatch co-sponsored the legislation that passed/funded it. A great way to pay for school, you have to commit to 2 years of teaching, but it seems like that is what you want to do anyway.

Anyway, again, I hope that this helps some. Mostly to teach you must have a passion for what you are doing and your subject matter, no matter what the population. Neither love of teaching, or love of subj matter alone will be enough, you must have both. Teachers, would you agree?

 

[Elmorton]

Lucky - I''m in IA/IL. Both states are pretty rigid when it comes to teacher certification - in IA, even to substitute you have to have a teaching license (which makes me wonder where the heck they''re finding subs!). In IL, if you have a Bachelor''s, you can get a substitute teaching license with very little difficulty - just a ton of paperwork. When I was going through the process to get my sub license, I sat down with someone, explained my situation (English major, was looking into going back and just taking the required education courses), and I was basically told that it''s nearly impossible to do in less than 4 years because of the required testing, in-class hours, etc. Since education programs are a cash cow for universities, they''re not likely to make it easy on people who already have field experience or a degree who simply want to go for certification. I did find an online alternative in IA, but for a year''s worth of online courses from an institution I wasn''t crazy about, it would cost 15k. After that, I basically stopped being curious and went back to the original plan to adjunct until I find a full-time job.

A friend of mine, also living in a border area (I think she was teaching in IA?), once taught 9th grade math for a year even though she was only certed for elementary. She got what she called a temporary teaching certificate because the school was desperate for a teacher. She signed some papers that said she was working on coursework in that content area, took an online class, and was good to go for a year. I think that kind of things happens very rarely, though. I don''t know if that''s the same thing your friend was doing...??

Pedagogy= big weird word for "teaching method." I think I spent a good month in grad school figuring out if it was pedda-GO-gee or pedda-GAH-gee (it''s said both ways, I finally settled on the latter).

My advice stems from this - and if I''m describing what you already know, just ignore: Grad programs in areas like English, Philosophy, Communication, Math - your basic areas where most grads will be returning to some sort of academia - tend to either focus on theory/research or pedagogy (though often both). There are different tiers, but at most universities, professors teach fewer classes and have time dedicated to publishing/researching. In grad school, you often hear the term "publish or perish" a lot, which refers not only to wanting to get published to get ahead and noticed, but also because tenure-track professors at a university often have to meet a quota of published works in a certain period of time in order to keep their jobs.

On the other hand, most ccs expect professors/instructors to publish on their own time (if at all, which can be a big issue in the field), thus a teaching load will be 4-6 classes, depending on if the professor does administrative work, etc. So, since cc professors are spending the majority of time teaching, a hiring committee (or in the case of an adjunct, a department chair) wants to see that a candidate has experience teaching, and specifically teaching community college students since the environment can be very different than at a university.

Another random thing to think about: Did you attended a community college? I didn''t get my AA, so I don''t want to dissuade you if you didn''t either, but having an AA or AS degree is a major bonus if you want to go into community college teaching.

Honestly, I don''t see your Interdisciplinary Studies major as a problem at all - it certainly won''t keep you from getting a job after your grad degree, and it may even help you get into your program of choice since many want to diversify a bit.

Are you considering English, then? While I love what I do (teaching composition/basic writing), if I were entering the realm of English Studies all over again, I''d take a really good, hard look at English as a Second Language. My friends who have done ESL have found a lot of success with job placement and have some really neat job opportunities outside of teaching. Do not -repeat- do not go for a MA in Literature. There simply aren''t job opportunities, and if there are, there will be a good 300 applicants for the opening. Composition/Rhetoric is a really good specialization - the most offered course in English departments is Comp I, so it''s great to walk in and say that''s specifically what you studied in grad school.

If you''re trying to decide a discipline, definitely grab a local college catalog or look online to see what the majority of offerings are in the subjects you enjoy. Another place to poke around is higheredjobs.com or ccollegejobs.com - you can get an idea of who/where/what is hiring right now.

 

[Tuckins1]

Definitely grad school. If your heart does not lie with k-12 then it will be utter torture to you. If you can do it, I would just burn through it and get it done.

 

[Elmorton]

Continued threadjack to Haven -

(Lucky, I hope you can find this at least useful, though - under-prepared students are one of the biggest issues when it comes to cc teaching)

Neat idea with the stay to pay. I haven''t looked into it for awhile, but I think quite a few of our students in both states get state/fed funding. I''m not sure they''ve had severe problems with non-payment, but then again, I''ve never asked.

I wish I had an MA in Reading! About three weeks into teaching my first prep course, I told my DH I was going back to get one. I thought he was going keel over - his greatest fear is the day I decide I want to go back to grad school. I hated the stress so much (he doesn''t exactly have fond memories, either) but more than anything, I miss spending my evenings learning/discussing teaching with other instructors, so it''s probably just a matter of time.

Anyway, in grad school, I''d read a million articles all saying the same thing - that grad schools don''t prepare composition instructors for "remedial" courses, we don''t have the resources available, instructors receive sentences that are such a big mess that it''s impossible to figure out where to start - but I truly thought that I''d done enough research to overcome that. I did a semester-long case study interviewing prep writers and comp I writers, I read everything my instructors could point me to concerning prep writing, read about learning disabilities, personality, learning styles, tutored - so I thought I was prepared, since I''d sought out more resources than most people do.

When I collected my prep students'' first paragraphs, I thought I was going to burst into tears. Everything just looked like a hot mess, and my students wouldn''t talk to me in class. Finally, after losing about 1/2 of the students because they quit attending, I started dedicating the first half of class to free writing and discussion, and then crammed everything else in for the last 20 minutes. Somehow, it worked, and nearly all of them passed into Comp I.

While I still get frustrated with prep writing, I think my pedagogy has improved by leaps and bounds. One of my colleagues re-introduced me to sentence combining, and I now wonder how I ever survived without it. But there are still a lot of problems that I don''t know how solve when it comes to prep writing, and I''m convinced that someone out there knows the answer but just isn''t publishing about it.

 

[luckystar112]

I'm back! Had a lovely dinner with DH. We talked about it, and fortunately he is supportive of whatever I choose to do. It's looking like Grad school is the way to go--as long as I can figure out a way to do some teaching at the same time (Charter school?). It would also be helpful to figure out where we are going to live!

An acquaintance of ours (for clarity's sake, it is DH's brother's friend's father) is in upper management at a company that might be able to find DH a job. He lives in Pennsylvania and runs all of the PA, NY, NJ areas. We hope to wind up in New England, so he told us to apply to whatever positions we want and he'll see what he can do. So we applied in PA, MA, NH, ME, and VA. We don't know this man so we are communicating with him strictly through DH's brother. Right now we are kind of in limbo wondering what is going to happen....Will DH even get an interview? If so, in which state? Will DH even LIKE the job? How much will he make? If he gets it, how long will we have to move?

Very frustrating when trying to plan your future!

..................

For those that are interested, here is the Alternative Teaching Certification program that my advisor told me to look into:
www.iteachtexas.com
The "teacher certification" section kind of shows you how it works. Apparently it is designed to be finished within 2 years (6 months of classwork plus a year of teaching). I WOULD rather use my time getting a Masters.

As for what I would want to get my Master's IN...hmmm. My advisor told me to look into Sam Houston State University.

Inner-post jack

Swimmer: Interesting about the online degree thing. Is this true for State universities?! I guess I'm kind of bewildered. I could understand if it was strictly an online school (like University of Phoenix or something), but this is a true B&M University with a campus and accreditations.

Anyway, from SHSU the graduate programs I find interesting would be:
M.A. English
M.S. Criminal Justice (there are actually several CJ programs and they all sound interesting)
M.A. History
M.A. Political Science
M.A. Sociology

click here if you're interested in seeing the full list. Is there any program that you think would be better for a future career in CC?

With the exception of CJ, all the other subjects are core requirements at the community college here in TX.

Elmorton: Yes, I did attend Community College. I have an A.A. I'm glad to hear that it could be helpful!


I'm still responding to most of you, I'm just going to break this up and start a new post.

 

[Haven]

El--I hear ya. I had no clue how to identify, assess, diagnose or treat my students'' reading and writing needs before I earned my MEd. I remember feeling completely helpless at times, and I am so grateful that I have at least a solid foundation for working with them, now.

What amazes me now is that we are so compartmentalized within the English field--we have reading teachers, writing teachers, speech teachers, etc. But really, we cannot teach reading without teaching writing, or speech without listening. My specific degree is in reading and literacy, so we learned how to address ALL literacy needs, and thus focused on all six of the language arts, not just reading. (It would be impossible to be a successful reading specialist if I did only focus on reading, of course.) I just wish someone had mentioned all of that when I was in my first master''s program to become a HS English teacher, it would have made my job much easier from the beginning.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/27/2009 8:32:22 PM
Author: luckystar112
Haven, the differences you listed between high school and CC are exactly why I would prefer to teach CC. I wish I had a more ''professional'' answer, but the truth is that quality of life is important to me and I would like there to be a clear line between work time and home time.

Lucky--I think it *is* professional to know just how much you are willing to put into your job, and how much you are not willing to compromise when it comes to your quality of life. I don''t regret my experience as a HS teacher at all, but I did neglect most other aspects of my life during the school year because that was what it took for me to be a good teacher. Some people seem to have the ability to walk in right before the first bell, and leave right after the last without lugging home a lot of work, but I am just not that efficient.

I didn''t leave my job because of the quality of life issue, I left on principle, but the quality of life issue was something that I lamented from the beginning.

Your school will greatly influence this, of course. I was in a school that bullied non-tenured teachers into taking coaching positions they did not want, which is how I ended up as the head (and only) coach for the speech team. I earned about 4K doing it, but I still hated it because I didn''t have any experience or passion for speech, so it was a chore for me. And I couldn''t teach in the gifted program that I''ve been involved with during the speech season, which was a huge hit because teaching those classes is something that really keeps me fresh. Some schools are much more considerate of their non-tenured teachers. I was basically told that if I didn''t take the position my job would be in jeopardy.

Everyone is right when they say you should only teach a subject and age for which you have a sincere interest in teaching. Burnout is so common, and the job is so demanding, that you''re likely to run screaming from the classroom after a year if you don''t truly love what you''re doing.

 

[luckystar112]

Haven: Thank you for your suggestion to call the Department Chair. As I said earlier, I went to a great Community College and I actually still keep in touch with my favorite English prof through facebook. When the time comes, and if we are still in TX, it might not be a bad idea to get some of the scoop from her.

Swimmer, I actually didn''t know that you had to have a Master''s to get a job at a public school in NE! So that is VERY good to know since that is ultimately where DH and I hope to end up. My friend is attending a CC in Maine right now (Southern Maine Community College) and she told me that she isn''t sure but she thinks their instructors aren''t required to have a Masters. I haven''t been able to confirm this but I would think she is mistaken.
I wouldn''t even know where to begin to look for programs that would allow me to teach in a practicum setting. Where could I find that information?
Thank you for the link. I think I tend to subscribe to Patrick Welsh''s school of thought!

Side note: Now that I know what pedagog is I am seeing the word everywhere.

MissPrudential, that is a good suggestion as well. I guess the only thing holding me back is that it seems like a lot of wasted time. Why spend 2 years on an ATC when I could get a Master''s in a year and a half? But, it WOULD buy me some time to figure out where we''ll be, etc. I''m just not sure.

KimberlyH: That makes sense. If you get your Master''s do you still have to go on to get credentials, or is the degree enough? I have heard more times than I can count that it''s "who you know". Kind of terrifying! My neighbor told me that I need to start subbing at public schools (I''m at a Charter school now) and get in good with the secretaries because THEY are the ones that can make a school take you or leave you.

Swimmer: I''m going to look into that scholarship! I love the idea of being able to propose my own courses. My English prof from CC does this. The school just signed off for her to do a Greek/Roman mythology course (which wasn''t available when I was there) and they are sending her to Europe to "research" it. Lucky!

Elmorton: I guess your friend got pretty lucky, eh? I''m not interested in publishing anything. haha. Another reason for me to choose CC. Though I would try and publish if I had to. I know I probably sound like the laziest, most ho-hum future teacher in the world. Thanks for the recommendation for ESL. I''ll have to look into it more....I always assumed it was for bilingual instructors.

 

[pennquaker09]

I also vote for the grad school option. Especially with the NCLB mandates requiring us to be highly qualified.

I did a M.Ed. in Curriculum and Instruction in one year, including a summer. I love being a SAHD, but I''ve thought about either getting back in the classroom or getting another masters while we get a break on the tuition at Columbia. I really want a Ph.D./Ed.D. in Educational Technology and there aren''t a lot of places one can study that . . . I love school and learning and I imagine if I didn''t have kids, I would be studying for another degree right now.

lucky, I got my M.Ed. in PA and I now live in NJ, so if you have any questions I will do my best to answer them.

 

[brightlight]

Date: 8/27/2009 5:24:27 PM
Author:luckystar112
I''m at a crossroads and I need to start making some big decisions soon. I graduate in the Spring and pretty much only have two options available to me in order for me to start teaching: Apply to Grad school or get an Alternative Teaching Certification. I just don''t know what to do.

Pros of ATC: There are a million programs out there and most of them get you into the classroom very fast (I believe the first year of teaching you''re on probation). One of the programs would allow me to take classes over the summer and then set me up with a school in the fall.

Cons of ATC: It costs a few thousand dollars and I could be wrong but I don''t believe that grants or any other type of aid is available for this fast-track program. The other con is that it is only for K-12, which I like but was not my first choice.


Pros of Grad school: A Masters would allow me to work at a Community College, which is where I''d ultimately like to end up. Then of course there is the ultimate pro that it is another degree. If I can''t find a job at a Community College a Masters will let me get a job at a K-12 anyway. Plus, it appears that many schools around the country are starting to make a Master''s a requirement. A lot of programs are only 30-36 hours and some Universities even allow you to take all your classes online.

Cons: More school. More time. More money. More putting my life on hold. I feel as though I am so far behind everyone else my age. DH cannot stand his job and so I''ve really been looking forward to bringing in a real income to give him some relief. The income from a real job would enable us to save up some money to leave Texas--something we both want immensely. Plus we want to have kids soon! Finally, there is a very small chance that someone can get DH a job in the northeast. If that happens we''d have to pick up and leave, and from what I understand you can usually only transfer 6 credits?


So, I met with my advisor today and I asked for her honest advice. She told me to go for my Masters. She is working on hers right now and she said that one of her biggest regrets was not doing it right away. This was not a lure to get me to join one of my school''s programs; she recommended a completely different University.

If you were me, what would you do?

1) Get your ATC and be done with it. Worry about grad school later! You''ve suffered enough! Getting your ATC will enable you to earn an income right away and you can always go to grad school once you know where you''ll be settling down.

2) Get Grad school over with! What''s another year and a half? It is essential to getting a job today, especially in this economy. Plus you can probably get a job teaching at a private or charter school somewhere while working toward your degree online. Worry about moving when and if it happens.

3) ______(Fill in the blank)______




I''m apologizing in advance for my million grammatical errors!

Can you apply to grad schools and see if you get any fellowships? It sounds like you''ll ultimately need to go to grad school anyway to reach your professional goals. When would you start grad school vs an ATC program? I don''t know about the programs you''re interested in, but if you''re accepted into doctoral programs in my field, you''re pretty much guaranteed full funding b/c spaces are so limited (typically only 2-3 per year). Re: children, I was told by my advisor a few years ago that the best time to get pregnant would be during the ABD stage of the program. I would recommend not waiting to go to grad school. The more distance you have from school, the harder it is to get back in that mind set. Plus, several years from now, I''m sure you''ll have more things factoring into your decision. I was fortunate enough to get a high paying career position during my second year in my program. Once I entered the work force in a career position, it became really difficult for me to finish my studies for several reasons.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I''m just going to throw out whatever I know to be true about the options you''ve mentioned.

My SIL taught college theater with a master''s degree in Alabama. She moved to Texas, where she had to sub for a year while completing her alternate certification before she could get a job teaching drama K-12.

A good friend of ours has a master''s in writing and has done the adjunct thing. Most recently he was making $19,000 a year with no benefits. The CC misled him about how many sections he would teach each semester (they said it would be at least 3 and then gave him 1-2 after the first semester). He has become director of the writing center so now at least he is making $40k and has benefits. Now if he wants to squeeze in a class over the summer, at night, etc., at least he is making "good money."

Partly through a personal family connection, my brother will be teaching two classes (undergrads and MBAs) at a VA University this year. He has a JD and no teaching experience. I think they are paying him $4k per class (he is not doing it for the money but rather to see if he likes it -- he''s the only member of our family who has never taught so he wonders if he is missing out!).

In Virginia, you can''t "major" in education undergrad. You need to major in your content area for high school or something like child psychology or perhaps your interdisciplinary studies for elementary school. Middle school you could do either. So I wonder if the interdisciplinary studies major would hurt you getting high school jobs in some states, but you''d probably be ok with elementary and middle.

At the high school where I teach in VA, maybe 40% of our new hires in the English department are uncertified, but I''m pretty sure that they''ve all been English majors. Half of them leave before the three years in which they need to complete their certification are up, a couple of them influenced by the fact that they were having difficulty passing the licensing exam (which, IMO as a "good test taker" and somebody who studied pedda-GAH-gee in college, was a piece of cake). When I hear people talking about how hard it is to get a job teaching these days, I think, hmmm, not in these parts . . . That said, it is much more difficult to get an elementary position around here, and you would definitely need to be certified.

What type of student/class do you envision yourself teaching? We know you don''t like 5-9, and with the younger kids you''d maybe get bored. Based on comparing stories with friends who adjunct at the college level and another friend who has a PhD from Oxford and teaches at a nearby University, I get the sense that the content you''re teaching and the level at which you teach it don''t necessarily correspond to the age group of the students. My friend at the University seems to have pretty comparable students as I have 12th grade AP students and she has freshmen, but my friend at the CC talked a lot about the apathy and ignorance of his students. So I think it totally depends on your expectations and interests.

It''s true that high school has a much less flexible schedule and you would probably be expected to help with extracurricular activities. Often you can pass the less desirable/more time consuming ones on after you have "paid your dues." (Or you can announce that you are having a baby and there''s no way you have time to run the National Honor Society any more -- that took tons of time. But I did keep two other activities that I run/teach because one is really fun, pays a stipend, and replaces an English class I would have otherwise taught, and the other requires about two hours of time a year). As in all professions, some teachers put in tons of overtime and run a million activities, and others skedaddle out the door as soon as the bell rings and never do anything extra if they can help it. One of my coworkers never did anything extracurricular until she decided she wanted to get into administration a few years back, and then she started volunteering for committees all the time, but she still has never run any extracurriculars.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 8/27/2009 11:57:02 PM
Author: luckystar112


KimberlyH: That makes sense. If you get your Master''s do you still have to go on to get credentials, or is the degree enough? I have heard more times than I can count that it''s ''who you know''. Kind of terrifying! My neighbor told me that I need to start subbing at public schools (I''m at a Charter school now) and get in good with the secretaries because THEY are the ones that can make a school take you or leave you.

Lucky, the classes you need to earn your credential are wrapped up in the master''s coursework. The master''s requires more work (typically, a thesis or some sort of large project is involved on top of compiling a portfolio of your work throughout the program). And secretaries are our best friends, that''s for sure. One way I''ve gotten to know people is be asking to observe teachers whose methods I find interesting/innovative. They are usually quite welcoming and full of information.

 

[musincy]

I''m a teacher and am working on my master''s degree right now. I never plan to teach at the college level, but I just wanted to let you know that a lot of schools (at least in my area) will pay or help pay for your master''s degree while you are working for them. Have you thought about this route? You''d be teaching and earning an income, while also working on your grad degree (for free). If you''re really against K-12 though, maybe you wouldn''t want to do that.

Also, keep in mind that if you get your grad degree and then decide to go back to K-12, you MAY have a little more trouble finding a job right away. I know some people that did grad school and couldn''t find a job because they didn''t have teaching experience. They were too expensive b/c of their degree, and didn''t have the experience. The schools would rather hire a "cheaper" teacher if the experience is the same. Now, not all places are like that, but I know of several states that are.

Of course, you need to choose the plan that is best for what you want to do. I hope I didn''t confuse you more!

Good luck with your decision... there is some great advise in this thread!

 

[joelly]

I have a Master in Accounting. I think getting a Master degree in any field is beneficial because it shows that you are dedicated to your field.

I actually have a question to all you adjuncts out there. Will post it in another thread.

Good luck, OP!!

 

[swimmer]

Lucky, all of those electives I mentioned, I teach at the high school level. Part of my job is to take kids to Asia and Europe for study-travel over vacations. My DH comes for free! This is public high school.

I agree with one of the previous posters who said that getting a masters puts a candidate out of the price range of some school district''s hiring policies. It just depends where you are...my district does not hire without a masters, but I could no longer get hired at my own hs in TN because they don''t hire at the doctoral level...or masters plus 30 probably... To explain, public school pay scales are public info, you get paid by the number of years teaching, and the level of education (charter schools are diff, they can pay anybody anything and can fire at any time, no unions). Research into where you are interested in going and see what their sweet spot is for educational background. The Superintendents'' secretaries will know this info. The HS where I teach has many teachers with PhDs...again, it just depends on the area. Several of my co-workers have retired and gone to teach at the local ccs, the money is less, but so is the workschedule. Not that teaching cc is easy, but you would have more than 21min for lunch and you could probably pee at your bladder''s request. I am so psyched to be in a classroom next year that is close to the teacher toilet! so so so so psyched, I can maybe pee between classes if no kid has a question.

This year I''m teaching AP psychology, AP world history, and a senior elective on the Vietnam War, it is a pretty ideal schedule for me. College level courses, no behavior issues with the kids, (well, dealing with their eating disorders, breakups, and depression, but not insolence or whatever), and a salary equal that of a tenured professor at a university. Actually I earn lots more than the chair of my dissertation committee, who is an associate professor. The key is to look around and find the school that fits you best. I started out in the city with kids who had failed 9th grade twice and brought guns to school...that was not a great fit, though I loved them it was killing me. I just couldn''t arrange any more adoptions, testifying at trial, and visits from DYS (which now has a new acronym I can''t remember). Teaching as an adjunct just didn''t pay enough for me to live in the city and was really similar to teaching high school, just with no stability, resources, or benefits, so I found my own sweet spot in a public high school after 8 years. You will find your own sweet spot, everyone''s is a bit different and I''m probably looking for a new job in the spring... Wanderlust is a totally different issue.

Good luck Lucky and do look into the James Madison fellowship, you get to go to Georgetown for a summer semester to study the Constitution...Really an amazing experience.

 

[luckystar112]

Hello all,

I''m sorry I''ve been MIA for the last few days--I have had an over-the-top hectic week. I just wanted to thank all of you for the valuable information. I''ve been researching the GRE exam and hope to take it soon. Where to apply is a whole other can of worms, but I guess we have a little bit of time to figure that out.

Again, thank you!

 

[Sabine]

My suggestion, if possible: be a day to day substitute teacher while getting your masters. If you are qualified to sub or can get an emergency cert to sub, it''s a job that has plenty of free time, is flexible, but can still bring in money to help relieve the stress from your hubby while getting you experience in the field you want to go into.

I did this for a year, and I was able to take 3 grad. classes a semester while subbing without any problem. Of course, the classes were all at night, but online classes are a great option too. If I had a big project, I could turn down a job for a day if I needed to, and I did most of my classwork during the teacher''s planning period/study hall coverage, etc.