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Any people in the medical field here?

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peonygirl

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I'm taking pre-med classes concurrently with my PhD program right now, and for a variety of reasons I'm thinking seriously about leaving my program after I get my Master's and going to medical school. I'm really excited about that path and am discovering a real love for science, but I'm also nervous because I know that I want to have children, and I worry about making everything work in such a demanding career. Anyway, I'd just love to hear some feedback! I know that there are a couple physicians/people in med school on this board like gingerbcookie. I've been shadowing a pediatric hospitalist for a few months and have had a great experience.
 

peonygirl

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Anyone?
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allycat0303

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Well I find med school very hard. In terms of studying and stress. My sister found it the same way. What she is finding now (she''s 24 and really wants to have family and children) is that she feels that med school is really hard on her aspirations as a mother, finding time to get married, buy a house etc. She feels that it is very hectic, and she wishes she had chosen a more family-oriented career path.

She''s an intern, and has talked to a lot of woman about this issues. Specialist as a rule feel that they don''t spend a lot of time with their children, have to rely on outside help such as babysitters, family etc. It''s especially bad when their husbands are also in the same career field.

Oprah''s show is on this today actually, careers and children. I don''t necessarily think that the two are incompatible, but I think every woman has a certain expectation of what she wants to be as a mother, and what she wants to give to her children. If you feel that you can be a doctor and live up to your personal expectations as a mother, then I don''t think there is anything to worry about. If however, you want to do everything yourself, be present at every important soccer game etc., that is going to be more difficult with this career choice.

Also in Canada anyways, certain specialities are more life-style friendly and family medicine is considered to have reasonable hours. I personally (and I know there are full of people out there that are going to say they are female surgeons and have 100% been there for their children) but for me, I couldn''t see myself being in one of these VERY demanding specialties and feeling like I have given 100% to my children. There has to be a compromise somewhere because there''s only 24 hours in a day and it''s usually with family etc.

Good luck on the process of applying!
 

dfm00

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Hi peonygirl! I'm an MD/PhD student currently in the grad school part. I'm also a guy, so I'm not quite in the same situation you would be, but I have lots of female friends/colleagues who are. It is absolutely possible to be a physician AND a good parent (though potentially not drive the kids to school every day, coach every sports team, etc). I think one of the nicest things about a career as a physician is the freedom and flexibility. As far as where you can work, how you structure your career, how many hours you work... Some of this is certainly specialty-specific, lifestyle considerations can vary drastically among different fields. All that said, I do think this career works best if one is very committed to and passionate about it (even if ends up being part time), and it sounds like you're gaining that. It's also usually an extremely expensive investment in your future, and the debt you will accumulate can certainly be a factor in making career decisions in the future. Have you thought about transferring into an MD/PhD program, if your school has one? I have friends who did that after 1st or 2nd year of grad school. The financial benefit is enormous...

It sounds like you're well on your way heading to med school, so is your question really whether or not to finish the PhD? Let me know if you have other specific questions about anything!


Dave
 

:)

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I agree with Ally - Med school was extremely hard. So was residency. Unfortunately it is harder on women than men with regards to having a family during that time - that is just a fact - you get to carry the baby and everything that goes with that!! I don't know how old you are, but it is difficult to get pregnant in med school, and most specialties are difficult to get pregnant in (unless you are doing something like psych) when doing a residency, so if you are willing to wait ~10 years then the career as a whole can be very rewarding (especially if you hold an academic position and teach - that can be very exciting, and causes you to have to stay on your toes - it is great to see excited students, very refreshing! Haha - when you feel burned out and the bright eyed excited student or resident shows up it is great!)

I assume that your fiancee is planning on research, since most M.D.PhDs tend to go into research. If this is the case, this may help your lifestyle some as he could help take care of kids (often MD/PhD will get the degrees but elect not to do a residency since they don't plan to go into direct patient care - either that or they are just tired of being in training forever LOL!!). It takes a special guy to understand that the mom will not be home every third or 4th night because she has to sleep at the hospital while on call - if a guy is willing to be a Mr. Mom then that works out best. If he doesn't like being completely responsible for an extended period of time every few days, then wait until you are done with training. It DOES get better when you finish med school and residency! They have also passed laws since I did my training which limit the # of hours you can be in the hospital so this probably helps too.

The two friends who got pregnant when I was training - one dropped out of med school, the other one got pregnant at the end of med school and did a psych residency. I remember her talking about doing a surgical rotation, the surgeon would not let her scrub out of a case (she was horribly nauseous from pregnancy), so she was doubled over on the floor in the OR until the case was over and he let her go (jerk!!). I also remember doing Peds Surg (I was considering that specialty at one time) - there was only one female attending - she was also a mom. Every time she was late to a meeting the guys sat at the table and made jokes about her being late because of 'taking care of the family' (even though they didn't know that was why she was late, they just made jokes assuming that was why) - HOWEVER, every time one of the guys was late there were never any similar comments made - humph - double standard.

Have you thought about completing your Ph.D and teaching? That can be VERY rewarding - you can even teach in med school if you really like the science aspect. That may be a bit more conducive to having a family if you really want to get started in the next 10 years.
 

icekid

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Nov 17, 2004
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hmm, med school is a lot of work for sure. And there are definitely times where it is all-consuming, but to be honest I had a lot of free time my 1st and 2nd years. But I also never went to class
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I hit the library from about 8 am until noon most days, and then I would study more like 8-10 hours/day during exam week but it really wasn''t that bad. Studying for board exams was a highly unpleasant experience though! But that was only for a month. How much you need to study really depends on how fast you can memorize! Some people do study MUCH more than that. It worked for me though.

As a third year now, I can be putting in some serious hours depending on the rotation. But there are plenty of people who have children even in med school and it works out just fine. 4th year is a good time for a baby too as it''s a really light year. There are also people who will take a year off in the middle of their schooling to have a baby and I''ve seen that work out well too.

As far as career part after the schooling, I think in general most residents are quite busy- some more so than others of course. But unless you go into something like gen surg, the hours will get better! The bottom line is that if you want to make it work, you can make it work. Once you''ve finished your residency, there are many fields in medicine that will provide you with plenty of flexibility and you can make your hours fit your life. You might not make as much money as you could, but there are tradeoffs for everything.

I am fairly certain that I will be going into ophthalmology. "Lifestyle" residencies such as radiology, urology, ENT, ophthalmology are quite competitive but well worth the effort IMO. My fiance and I don''t even know if we want children, but I do know I don''t want my entire life to revolve around my career. Fortunately I''ve fallen in love with a field that will allow me to treat some really cool pathologies and still have plenty of time for my family and for ME.

So my advice is that if you''re really falling for medicine, go for it. It''s a great field
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peonygirl

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Thanks so much for all of the feedback thus far! One thing I should clarify is that I''m actually not in a hard-science field right now, so unfortunately I don''t think I could transfer to an MD/PhD program at this point. I definitely want to do some research in the future though, in addition to my clinical duties. I have a pretty strong research methods/statistics background, so hopefully that will help.

My DF is definitely more interested in the clinical side of medicine, so there''s no chance that he''ll be a full-time researcher but he does want to go into a family friendly field, probably anesthesiology. I too am interested in doing something family friendly, but I want to work in a hospital setting with severe cases and have a lot of patient interaction. I''m not sure what that leaves me. . . maybe ER?

I am definitely not afraid of hard work, but my main issue now is when we should have children. I''m 23 now, but my DF and I couldn''t see ourselves waiting to have kids until after residency. That would make him almost 40 (he''s 27 now), and we''ve been wanting kids our whole life. Since I was raised by a stay-at-home mom who did everything for me it will be a big adjustment, but I also know that she was unhappy not having a career that I too am much happier working.

So we are basically thinking about two different times to have kids--my glide year when I applying to med school, and 4th year of med school. Glide year will be soon (I''d get pregant about 8 months after we''d get married), but I''d have a good 6+ months at home with the kid before I started med school. DF seems to think years 1 and 2 of med school are a good time to have kids, because he went to class for about 4 hours a day and never had to study for more than 2 hours a day until the boards came around. Don''t know if that means that he''s really smart though, because I know that a lot of people study much more.

Anyway, I''d love to hear more feedback and I can post more about my situation too. I keep hearing such varying things about being a parent with an intense job (or schooling), so I feel that it may be hard to truly know how things work until I''m in that situation.
 

HOUMedGal

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I''ve been married for 7 months, no kids, and I''m currently a 3rd year med student. The thing that I most want to tell you is that if you want it and are willing to work for it, you can do it! I''m studying full time for the USMLE Step 1 right now, and my study buddy is a great example....She is 36 years old, turns 37 in March, and has a daughter who is 12, and twin sons who are 8. She had serious doubts before she started med school...considered going the PA route instead because she wasn''t quite sure she could hack it. Well, she''s hacked it just fine, and has even managed to run the marathon last year and the half marathon this year! Granted, she and her hubby have an au pair who helps out...she says the au pair makes things much more bearable.

There have also been several women in my class who have had babies. One had her first and only first year, another had her first and only during second year, one had her first during first year and her second at the beginning of third year, and I know of two who are pregnant now, one due at the end of third year, one due beginning of 4th year. And they have all done just fine.

One forum you might check out for like-minded women (on which my friend posts frequently) is www.mommd.com . It''s just what it sounds like...women who are wives and moms and who are also pre-meds, med students, residents, and post-residency MD''s.

Another thing to think about is specialty choice...of course, you have to do what you enjoy (i didn''t really know what I would enjoy until my clinical rotations started), but there are definitely specialties that are more family-friendly than others. There are the typical lifestyle specialties (derm, radiology, anesthesiology, etc) but other choices like Family Medicine, General Pediatrics, and others that might not pay as well as some of the "lifestyle" specialties but will still allow for plenty of time to be a wife and mom. And even some of the subspecialties can allow for a pretty good lifestyle too. Personally, I have chosen to go into Family Medicine because first of all, I really enjoy seeing patients of all ages with all different problems on an outpatient basis. Secondly, working in a clinic from 8ish-5ish 4 or 5 days a week will allow me to be happily fulfilled in my career AND my home life, which will always come before career for me.

I think your plan of possibly having your first baby during your "getting accepted" year and then your second during 4th year is a great plan. If we weren''t so in debt, I''d be tempted to start trying for our first now, so that the baby would be born 4th year. I plan to try and have my 1st baby at the beginning of my third year of residency (Family Med is a 3 year residency, so it will be my last year). Essentially, the end of med school and the end of residency are both good times to have babies, from what I''ve learned.

And plenty of people do it! It may not be as easy as it would be without a baby, but that''s life! I don''t want to wait until after residency, either...when i finish residency, I''ll be 29 and hubby will be 34, and while that''s not really that old, I just don''t want to wait that long, especially for our first.

All of my thoughts on this issue stem from the fact that I made a decision several months ago (during my grueling general surgery rotation) that my career is NOT going to run my life...I''m going to run my life. My personal life WILL come before my career. Yes, I''ll work hard and be a damn good doctor, but first, I''m going to be the best mom and the best wife I can be. I wouldn''t be happy without a good BALANCE. And I think Family Medicine will suit me nicely in this respect.

Another bit of advice I''ll throw in is don''t worry about figuring out what you want to specialize in now...you''ll figure out what you want and don''t want while in med school. My ideas about what I wanted to do changed seeeevvvveral times before I settled on Family Med. Just know that there are PLENTY of specialties that will still allow you to be a wife and mom...you just have to pick your favorite one later on!

I say if you wanna do it, do it!! Plenty of people have figured out how to balance a career in medicine and personal life, and that means there''s hope for the rest of us too!!
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Please post any more questions...I''ll be happy to help answer them!
 

basil

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I''m currently doing a medicine internship, and starting my ophthalmolgy residency (3 more years) next year. My fiance is also a resident (third year internal medicine) who is planning to do a 2-year nephrology fellowship next year.

I didn''t meet my fiance until I was already a 4th year medical student, so our situation is a little bit different and complicated by contracts that were already signed before we knew that we wanted to be together for sure. So we''re living apart for the next 2.5 years. By the time I finish my residency, I''ll be 30. We want to wait until we have "real jobs" before starting a family. I think it''s definitely possible to get a part-time job as a woman physician - sort of depending on specialty. Surgery or ob/gyn, probably not. Radiology, anesthesiology, ER, ENT, ophtho, internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, you have a much better chance. If you want to be a pediatric hospitalist, you''d probably have a pretty good chance of dictating your hours, because normally it''s done in a "shift work" style. My fiance''s friends are getting internal medicine hospitalist jobs that are like 3 12-hour shifts 3 days in a row, then 4 days off, then repeat, etc. I suspect that as women become more and more prevalent in medicine, the hours will become more flexible for us. It''s all probably accompanied by a pay cut, but to me I think it will be worth it.

Anyway, if I had the opportunity, I think the best times to have a baby would be before med school (the first 2 years are pretty light on the time away from home); 4th year in med school; take a year off either between 2nd and 3rd year, or 3rd and 4th year (pretty easy to do depending on your med school - it was easy at mine); or delay residency for a year (a lot of people did this in my class).
 

Munchkin

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Have you considered being a Nurse Practitioner? I was a full time masters student for three years, and was then able to start my career! We don''t have residency/internship, instead we have clinical built into the curriculum. As such, when you graduate, you are free to work. You would need to find a program which offers and accelerated RN to MSN, as you must be an RN first. That was what I had to do.

I am able to write prescriptions, see my patients for annual physicals, newborn visits, sick visits, take call, etc. We can also have admitting privileges, work as hospitalists, round, etc. Above all, it is a VERY female friendly profession. I actualy opted against med school because I knew I wanted to begin my career in my mid twenties rather than my mid thirties, and it was important that I wait to have children until I was "set" in my job.

I love my job. One thing that many practices do (including mine) is book NP visits for a longer block of time. That gives me more time to actually sit and listen to everything that is bothering my patients. There is less pressure to have rapid overturn.

Many impressive schools offer Nurse Practitioner programs including: Yale, Columbia, UPenn Georgetown and Hopkins. The University of California San Fran has a phenomenal NP reputation, too.
 

peonygirl

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Hi Munchkin! Thanks for your feedback! I was actually considering alterate career paths like NP for a little while, but I'm under the impression that they mainly restrict one to primary care type fields. Or is that not the case? I would definitely like to specialize (i.e. do a fellowship) and work with very sick patients with multiple comorbities.
 

fisiogrl

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Jan 6, 2004
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Hi Peonygirl,

I am not in medicine but my husband is. We were both physical therapists (and I still am!) so we were definately in the arena anyway.

My husband has done his med school and has gone in to ER as a specialty - almost done, thank god. His opinion varies daily: He loves it
he hates it
why did he ever do it....
to why didn''t I do it too...?

Overall, he says that med school is FUN. Still a lot of work ofcourse, but interesting, challenging, and lots of social opportunities to bond with the other poor lunatics who are in the same boat. However...... residency SUCKS. This is where they suck the life out of you and make you miserable. And it is 5 years.....ughhh.

I am 38 and would like to have kids too - so our window of opportunity is getting pretty narrow. His stress levels have been so high for the past 5 years that it would never have worked before now. He has to write his National board exam in May (canada) - so after that maybe we can consider it!

That being said, there are plenty of people that pull it off. With grace even! My other physio colleague entered med school when she was 32. Her husband is 15 years older!!!! She will finish this year and begin her residency in family practise. Knowing her, she will pop out a baby and have her darling husband raise it while she finishes her residency (he is waaaaay more maternal than she is!)

Make sure that you really have a passion for it. not only will it suck you dry emotionally - your bank account will be drained too by the time that you are done.
 

dfm00

Rough_Rock
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Sep 20, 2006
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It''s certainly possible to specialize as an NP. Just as an example, since you mentioned very sick/complex patients (and since I am familiar with the MICU at my hospital and know NPs play an important role), results of a quick google on critical care NP:

some available programs (also includes other specialties):
http://www.allnursingschools.com/featured/acute-care-nurse-practitioner/

descriptions of a specific program and position:
http://nurseweb.ucsf.edu/www/spec-acp.htm
http://www.hr.duke.edu/jobs/descr_duhs/select.php?ID=5059



Dave
 

Munchkin

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Joined
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One is definitely no limited to primary care. Tyoically, however, you do apply to a program for a specific specialty. (The streamlined education is part of why we can complete our schooling so quickly.
Here are some examples of where my classmates are working:

Pediatric primary care and clinical trials team (me)
Woman''s health clinic
Pediatric surgery
Hospital based Gastroenterology clinic
School based health clinic
Hospital based endo clinic/practice
National Health Service corps
practicing midwife
Hospital based pain clinic
Acute care NP who basically works as an ER attending (3 friends doing that)
Neonatal hospitalist
Family health practice
US navy working as an NP
Pediatric cardiology service at a major children''s hospital
Palliative care program at a hospital
Oncology practice
Forensic nursing
Asthma/allergy
Ortho

Other options of course are nurse anesthetist, clinical nurse specialist, nursing administration, legal nurse consulting etc.


For the most long-term flexibility, I would recommend specializing in Family. That way, your license would cover you for all ages and you could streamline your interests. Many schools will allow you to seek out you own clinical placement, so you could spend time in a specific area that interests you; which you might not otherwise get experience in. I was able to select a rotation in GI which had not been offered previously. Two woman arranged clinicals out of state over our summer break so they could explore palliative care and neuro. One classmate took the train to work at a very needy woman''s health clinic.

Basically, the position of NP is what we say it is. It is evolving and expanding. If you seek out relevant clinical experience, you will prepared for what ever you wish.
 

Aurelia

Shiny_Rock
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Jul 30, 2006
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150
munchkin -- can i ask where you went back to school? i''m currently an RN (NICU right now) but am hoping to go back to school to be an NP..... I''ve been talking to lots of people at work, but another person''s experience can never hurt!

thanks!!

Aurelia
 

Munchkin

Brilliant_Rock
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I went to Yale. I can''t say enough about my program and the faculty. I loved it.
 

Aurelia

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Jul 30, 2006
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Munchkin,

I actually was just down in New Haven for an interview a few weeks ago : ) I guess it''s just the small girl part of me but yikes! The big bad fence all around the nursing school/med school area is a bit intimidating. It sounds like security & all the escort services around campus and New Haven are spectacular, but it makes me wonder that if it''s that bad of an idea to walk home after a shift, would it be similarly terrible to go out for dinner or drinks in the area? I''m sure it''s all about adjustment (I''m from middle of nowhere NH) but the students I talked to seemed to live way out in the suburbs to counteract the issue... is that typical?

Also, there seemed to be some bad blood between Yale''s SON and the hospitals in town... was this the case when you were there? A few professors tried explaining that some students had taken RN positions at the hospitals while in school and had then quit. Now the hospitals are a bit leary of hiring GEPN or other non-traditional nursing students from Yale?? The students mentioned that a lot of their practicals & clinic hours are VERY far away from New Haven -- one girl was saying she took the train into NYC for hers every day... another said it was 1 1/2 hour drive each way. Were they right when they said the Med students tend to get all the local (i.e. close!) clinic rotations? Was this a problem for you?

I''m looking at their Acute Care track -- not Primary Care... maybe that''s part of the difference? They really tried scaring the living daylights out of us while we were there -- not sure if this was simply to try to make us realize this is serious stuff, or if they were possibly playing it up a bit? That sounds wrong -- but it just seemed like a bit of a frat initiation... i.e. you will NEVER sleep... ever.

Sorry to ask so many questions! But I''m excited I found someone out there who actually went there!!

Aurelia
 

Munchkin

Brilliant_Rock
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Peony, please excuse the hijack!

Aurelia...
I myself lived smack downtown all three years. My friends and I would go out to dinner and drinking all the time. (favorite bars were the Grad student pub - fantastic bargains!, BAR, anna liffeys, Hot Tomato, and the playwright) I am under five feet tall and top out at about 105lbs. I never had an issue. I was sensible, though. Late at night I would walk with friends or take a cab. One friend who lived a few blocks from me would walk part way home with me after going out drinking, and then we would call one another when we got home. The bottom line is be smart. Carry hairspray in your purse since mace is illegal. I will say, however, there have been far more murders in New Haven this year than in years past.

I could recommend places to live downtown, or I would suggest the "grad ghetto." The grad ghetto is where tons of grad students live. It has much more of a neighborhood feel and the shuttle bus (free) has stops there. It is less expensive than downtown.

As for the relationship with the hospital... While some of the "bad blood" may be due to gepns quitting after they graduated, there was bad blood to start. Despite the fact that I've worked as an RN, I faced plenty of difficulty with floor RNs when working as an NP. Some resent the fact that NPs even exist and don't want to take orders from anyone other than an MD. More often, though, I've had people tell me that they don't like that gepns don't have to "pay their dues" as floor nurses before getting an advanced degree. That is a common feeling shared by many nurses I met at YNHH and at other hospitals. I understand that perspective, but I can honestly say that my work as an NP is so vastly different from my work as an RN, more RN expereince would not have helped me. I also met a nurse that told me she didn't understand why I was wasting my money at Yale to be a nurse. So, I guess it's possible that people resent the school itself - I don't know.

As for clinicals, my experience would differ from yours. In general they prefer that we be placed with an NP for clinical. It is much harder to find an acute care NP than a peds NP. Also, we are not only competing with Yale Med, but also the PA program. The farthest clincal I had I allowed 1 hour drive but would typically need 45 minutes. Your life will be much easier if you have a car. However, they do ask you at the start of each rotation if you have a car, and try to accomodate you. I was able to walk to a few of my rotations as they were at YNHH. I carpooled to all the others in my RN year. Your NP years you are often alone at a site, so car pooling may not be possible. I know some of my acute care friends had to do night shift clinical. I am sure you would have to at some point, as well. (thats' when the traumas come in, right?) The med students don't get all the close rotations. I had a number of NP and RN rotations in New Haven and another in Cheshire. Again, though, it can be hard to find an appropriate preceptor nearby.

As for sleep, I got it where I could. Each semester I had one day totally free. I went out the night before and slept the day away! If you budget your time appropriately, sleep is not hard to come by. I did get harried around exams (break up objectives with classmates!) and before my NCLEX and thesis. You will be shocked at the massive quatities of information your brain retains when you study what you truly want to do!

I genuinely loved my years in New Haven and at YSN. Congrats on making it to the interview round!

If you do go, a couple pearls of wisdom... (all of which will make sense after you arrive)
Buy the money packets, but the 3 hole punch option...spiral bound falls apart quickly and is a waste of money.
Break up objectives with classmates.
Befriend Linda P...she rocks!
Test out of any classes you can.
Buy used books online. You don't need all the recommended books, but do invest in a good lab values book.
Avail yourself of the Payne Whitney gym and all the cheap classes it offers!
Go to the Grad student pub halloween party!
Don't lose your ID! You even need it to go the bathroom.
Respect Keith and his vast computer wisdom.
Practice lifting large water cooler size bottles. No one likes the person who empties the water and doesn't fill it.
If ANYthing interests you, ask around about setting up an observation. You will never have an opportunity like this again! YNHH is accustomed to students, so we have some super cool doors open to us.
Use your community health rotation to go somewhere cool.
You will likely think your Psych preceptor needs some serious treatment herself.
They will give you a calendar with important dates on it. That is your life. Keep every commitment you have on that same calendar and keep in plain sight.
If you register your car in CT you have to pay a car tax based on your cars perceived worth. My 2004 toyota cost me $264 this year.

Hope all this rambling helps.



 

Aurelia

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
150
Munchkin -- you have NO idea how helpful that is... I have more questions but they''ll have to wait a bit...

DFM -- does the BAR & mashed potatos comment mean you went to Yale as well? or just from New Haven?

THANK YOU!
Aurelia
 

dfm00

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
72
Hi Aurelia. I grew up about 30 minutes from New Haven. Decided I wanted to leave the area for college, but came back after I graduated and spent 2 years doing research at Yale SoM. I had friends in various Yale grad schools and Munchkin''s list of hangouts brought back memories! I''m in medical school (Rochester, NY) now, but Yale is on my very short list for residency when the time comes. So I can''t speak to attending school at Yale, but I second Munchkin''s assessment of New Haven, I really like the city. I think it gets a bit of a bad rap; I don''t think crime is necessarily worse than other comparable cities. It IS a city, with some areas worse than others, so you have to be aware and sensible. But in general I always felt very safe, especially on campus(es) and in the areas that students/young professionals tended to frequent. And it has plenty to offer socially and culturally. If you did decide to live in a more suburban area there are lots of options within a 20 minute drive.


Dave


P.S. Just re-read your post and saw that you''re from NH, what part? I did my undergrad at Dartmouth (which was the perfect degree of "middle of nowhere" for me!)


(Sorry peony!...)
 

Aurelia

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
150
Dave,

Clearly this is a small world! I live in Dalton NH right now and work in St. Johnsbury. But I went to school in Rochester at U of R.

Thanks for the input on New Haven... always appreciated!

Aurelia
 
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