Any NY Lawyers out there? Please help!

[bubbly1126]

HELP! I have a situation that I really need cleared up. If ANYONE can be of ANY assistance, please feel free to chime in.

Here''s the predicament:
DH Grandfather is the POA for his brother, Wes. Wes has a home that he no longer lives in as about 6 months ago, he was put into an Assisted Living Facility. The home is now sitting vacant. The home is ENTRUSTED (is that correct?) to his son Wes who lives in AZ. DH and I have contacted the son Wes b/c we would like to buy this home, or at the very least lease to buy it. Wes responded saying he will not keep the home for himself but has no plans to sell it. He would only say that he would sell it SOMEDAY. Meanwhile, this family home (DH''s Great Grandfather built it) is sitting and rotting away.

Are we at a loss here? Do we have to wait for young Wes to decide he wants to sell/rent? Or Can DH''s Grandfather who is POA decide to rent or sell this home without the consent of the son Wes? DH Grandparents want us to have this home so badly but he feels as though he has no say. Is this true??

This is getting very frustrating as this is a family home and we''re afraid he will sell to one of his buddies and not keep it in the family. It''s a beautiful home. Needs a lot of updating but ever since I stepped foot in that home, it just felt like HOME to me. I can''t quite explain it.

Any input? Thanks!

 

[Cehrabehra]

The guy''s son may have his OWN emotional issues regarding that house and may just not be ready to part with it to anyone. When my mom died I took over a year to finish her gravestone and during that time her brother and sisters got so pissed at me because they thought I was being disrespectful or thoughtless, when really it was just so painful and felt like the last nail in the coffin so to speak - I slso wanted it to be perfect and I was pregnant with 2 young kids and only had so much time to devote to it. And when I did sit down I mostly just cried. So what looks to one person as one thing can truly be something else and you might want to at least consider your cousin''s feelings before proceeding down that road.

 

[Haven]

I agree with Cehra.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I''m not an attorney...but, my understanding is this...

A POA can speak on behalf of older-Wes in terms of things that Wes can no longer speak for himself on. However, a will or trust is pretty much air tight...if older-Wes was of sound mind when he deeded the house to younger-Wes, then it is a legally binding contract and cannot be touched.

I would realize that although you want this home, young-Wes isn''t in the right place to sell, rent, or even make promises. As others have pointed it, this could be emotional...but it could also be financial. Young-Wes is probably looking at the real estate market and thinking he''d be foolish to sell a home that isn''t costing him anything in a distressed market...whereas waiting a few years might mean a much healthier profit. If I were a betting woman, I''d say it''s probably a mix of both.

 

[bubbly1126]

Ladies, I truly thank you for your input. I am aware that part of this may be emotional reasons and I absolutely understand. Our gripe is that this man does not live in New York and has not seen his father is ages. If he were here taking care of the house then perhaps we'd be a little more understanding but since he hasn't even so much as seen his father or stepped foot in that house in a very long time, it makes us all a little mad. We're offering to take care of this house and not let it fall apart and yet, he refuses to do anything about it.

We have since found out that the son cannot sell the house until the father passes away. Okay, so be it. However, we have thrown an offer to rent it until he has the ability to sell. His father is needing more care and DH's grandfather has had to pay more money for an aide and such. Renting out the house, which he does have the ability to do, would help with those expenses. Let's see how this goes...

 

[mary poppins]

I''m an attorney licensed in two states, neither of which are New York. Regardless, the answers to these two questions may help determine the answer to your inquiry regarding renting:

Who has title to the property, how it is titled and is it held in a trust?

What are the terms of the POA? Is it general (i.e. unlimited in scope) or specific (i.e. imposes restrictions on the scope of power)?

That being said, I agree that the cousin''s emotional issues should be taken into consideration. All around, a tough situation for all involved. I hope you are able to work it out and move into the house.

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 5/10/2010 2:05:23 PM
Author: mary poppins
I'm an attorney licensed in two states, neither of which are New York. Regardless, the answers to these two questions may help determine the answer to your inquiry regarding renting:

Who has title to the property, how it is titled and is it held in a trust?

What are the terms of the POA? Is it general (i.e. unlimited in scope) or specific (i.e. imposes restrictions on the scope of power)?

That being said, I agree that the cousin's emotional issues should be taken into consideration. All around, a tough situation for all involved. I hope you are able to work it out and move into the house.

Thank you, mary poppins. I will have DH ask his grandfather these questions when he meets with him tonight and get back to you. Again, thank you. Hopefully this can shed some light on the situation.

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 5/10/2010 2:26:58 PM
Author: inhisarms17

Date: 5/10/2010 2:05:23 PM
Author: mary poppins
I''m an attorney licensed in two states, neither of which are New York. Regardless, the answers to these two questions may help determine the answer to your inquiry regarding renting:

Who has title to the property, how it is titled and is it held in a trust?

What are the terms of the POA? Is it general (i.e. unlimited in scope) or specific (i.e. imposes restrictions on the scope of power)?

That being said, I agree that the cousin''s emotional issues should be taken into consideration. All around, a tough situation for all involved. I hope you are able to work it out and move into the house.

Thank you, mary poppins. I will have DH ask his grandfather these questions when he meets with him tonight and get back to you. Again, thank you. Hopefully this can shed some light on the situation.

One question, what do you mean, how is it titled? Do you mean Deed when you say Title? Are they one in the same?

 

[Haven]

I thought of another thing to consider in your situation.

I know you really want this house, and I have no idea about your relationship with young Wes, but I can tell you from experience that sometimes people feel like it''s much easier to keep things like this OUT of the family. What I mean by this is that some people are very wary of renting property out to family members because it can get sticky if your family members can''t pay the rent, or other similar things happen.

I''m not trying to say that YOU would do anything like that, but I can tell you that DH and I would never rent out our income property to a family member. We would let someone we love live there for free if they were in dire straits, but we would never enter into a business relationship with anyone for fear of it souring our family relationship. My FIL owns many rental properties, and he feels the same way about it. It almost feels like you''re asking for trouble when one family member owes rent to another.

I know it must be frustrating to see a nice home go into disrepair, but truly, if it isn''t yours and you don''t really have any rightful claim to it, I wouldn''t press the issue.

 

[goldenstar]

I am a Trusts and Estates attorney in CA.

Generally speaking, the answers to your questions lie in the POA document and the trust document (if there is one). These can be drafted in a number of ways and the power to sell the property may or may not be included.

Your DH''s grandfather should have an attorney look at the documents. It should be relatively inexpensive because I can''t imagine that it would take very much of an attorney''s time. The two documents might interact with each other in complicated ways and the safe thing to do would be to seek legal advice.

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 5/10/2010 6:37:46 PM
Author: Haven
I thought of another thing to consider in your situation.

I know you really want this house, and I have no idea about your relationship with young Wes, but I can tell you from experience that sometimes people feel like it''s much easier to keep things like this OUT of the family. What I mean by this is that some people are very wary of renting property out to family members because it can get sticky if your family members can''t pay the rent, or other similar things happen.

I''m not trying to say that YOU would do anything like that, but I can tell you that DH and I would never rent out our income property to a family member. We would let someone we love live there for free if they were in dire straits, but we would never enter into a business relationship with anyone for fear of it souring our family relationship. My FIL owns many rental properties, and he feels the same way about it. It almost feels like you''re asking for trouble when one family member owes rent to another.

I know it must be frustrating to see a nice home go into disrepair, but truly, if it isn''t yours and you don''t really have any rightful claim to it, I wouldn''t press the issue.

This very well could be the case. However, at this point, we haven''t received a response regarding the possibility of renting. You do have valid points though. Thanks!

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 5/11/2010 1:24:11 AM
Author: goldenstar
I am a Trusts and Estates attorney in CA.

Generally speaking, the answers to your questions lie in the POA document and the trust document (if there is one). These can be drafted in a number of ways and the power to sell the property may or may not be included.

Your DH''s grandfather should have an attorney look at the documents. It should be relatively inexpensive because I can''t imagine that it would take very much of an attorney''s time. The two documents might interact with each other in complicated ways and the safe thing to do would be to seek legal advice.

Thank you for your reply. On the POA Document, it states DH''s Grandfather as POA and Wes Jr. as a secondary POA. The document also states that the POA has full control over all affairs. There is a section on the document where Wes Sr. has to check whether both have the ability to make independent decisions without the others consent or both have to agree when it comes to all decisions. The box stating that they can act independently is checked.

Also, the house is still in Wes Sr''s name. Only in TRUST for his son. The trust is a living trust. I am assuming that this means upon Wes Sr''s death, the house will then go to Wes Jr. But I am not sure about what can be done with the house in the mean time... i.e. sold? rented?

DH''s Grandfather is making an appointment with a lawyer today. DH will be going with him.

 

[Haven]

That sounds like good movement--that DH is going with his grandfather to visit the attorney.

I hope this works out for you guys,

 

[LadyBlue]

Let me see if I understand. Wes dad is giving the house to his son Wes. While he is sick, your DH Grandfather is the POA for his brother Wes. And you want to make your DH Grandfather to sell the house to you, against the will of Wes dad and Wes son?

Who is going to set the price of the house, your DH grandfather?

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 5/11/2010 12:44:59 PM
Author: gaby06

Let me see if I understand. Wes dad is giving the house to his son Wes. While he is sick, your DH Grandfather is the POA for his brother Wes. And you want to make your DH Grandfather to sell the house to you, against the will of Wes dad and Wes son?

Who is going to set the price of the house, your DH grandfather?

I''d say no. You do not understand. We are not trying to MAKE anyone do ANYTHING. We want this house and if DH''s Grandfather has the power to do what he wishes with it, then he is going to do so. Wes Sr. was in his right mind when he gave each of these men their power and therefore I am sure that whatever does happen with the house will be in the best interest of all parties involved. Wes Sr. gave the power TO BOTH OF THEM, with the ability to act INDEPENDENTLY of each other.

I believe your question about setting the price of the house was meant to be a snide remark but I will answer with maturity. I do not know and I find it funny that you''re only focusing on the price of the house when I haven''t brought up anything of the sort. The idea of buying right now is mostly out of the picture and we are just hoping to at least rent. I am sure that whatever rent is charged will be more than fair.

 

[mary poppins]

Date: 5/10/2010 2:57:46 PM
Author: inhisarms17

Date: 5/10/2010 2:26:58 PM

Author: inhisarms17

Date: 5/10/2010 2:05:23 PM

Author: mary poppins

I'm an attorney licensed in two states, neither of which are New York. Regardless, the answers to these two questions may help determine the answer to your inquiry regarding renting:


Who has title to the property, how it is titled and is it held in a trust?


What are the terms of the POA? Is it general (i.e. unlimited in scope) or specific (i.e. imposes restrictions on the scope of power)?


That being said, I agree that the cousin's emotional issues should be taken into consideration. All around, a tough situation for all involved. I hope you are able to work it out and move into the house.

Thank you, mary poppins. I will have DH ask his grandfather these questions when he meets with him tonight and get back to you. Again, thank you. Hopefully this can shed some light on the situation.

One question, what do you mean, how is it titled? Do you mean Deed when you say Title? Are they one in the same?

I was just about to respond to your questions but then saw your update stating that DH and his grandfather reviewed the POA and made an appointment with an attorney. Sounds like you're making progress. It would be a shame to have the family house fall into disrepair if you and DH are interested in living there and caring for it. If necessary, appraisers and real estate agents can assist with determining fair market value for sales price or rent rate.