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Any links to videos comparing top cut RBs vs less ideal?

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DiamondFlame

DiamondFlame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
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680
Ceteris paribus, if the crown/pavillion angle of the second RB is off the ideal range by say 2-to-5 tenths of a degree, would our eyes be able to see the difference in terms of its brightness, sparkle and scintillation?

Any videos showing this side by side comparison? I''m curious.
41.gif
 
Great question Dmitri!
I have obtained two round 1/2 carat E color diamonds to make exactly the video you asked about.
The diamonds are on the way to be put on a Sarin machine so that well have all the angles- as well as ASET and IS images.
I''ve taken my freehand photos and video of the two stones as well.

I''m hoping that one will be shown to be deficient on these test- but we''ll see!
 
Thanks for the links Strm.
1.gif

While there''s no hard data of the RB''s configuration, it does look relatively ''dull'' next to that awesome GOG Signature H n A. Does not help either that it is a smaller stone. I also like the Solasfera and Star129 for their difference. esp in spotlight.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 11:50:42 PM
Author: risingsun
Strm,
Are there any other ways to link to these videos? They won''t play on my computer
38.gif
Click to expand...

Make sure you have a flash player installed for your browser. If you don''t have one, you can grab it here:

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
 
Date: 5/14/2009 5:55:18 AM
Author: DiamondFlame
Thanks for the links Strm.
1.gif

While there''s no hard data of the RB''s configuration, it does look relatively ''dull'' next to that awesome GOG Signature H n A. Does not help either that it is a smaller stone. I also like the Solasfera and Star129 for their difference. esp in spotlight.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to the last video he linked, the size difference is minute. If it was well cut, it would/could definitely keep up. (if not that video, please disregard)
 
There is a video on this site on the home page, in the videos section. Its called diamond comparison in NY. Random people have to guess the better cut diamond without being told which it is. It comes across to me that most people have to really consintrate to find a point of difference if at all. It surprised me that the better cut stone wasnt more obvious as being the better cut stone. I was expecting the better stone to almost reach out and slap the person looking at it or something `huge`.
2.gif
 
Date: 5/14/2009 9:02:45 AM
Author: Sharon101
There is a video on this site on the home page, in the videos section. Its called diamond comparison in NY. Random people have to guess the better cut diamond without being told which it is. It comes across to me that most people have to really consintrate to find a point of difference if at all. It surprised me that the better cut stone wasnt more obvious as being the better cut stone. I was expecting the better stone to almost reach out and slap the person looking at it or something `huge`.
2.gif
Click to expand...
I find that video rather disingenuous. It''s in one lighting situation, which is outside, where lots of diamonds can look good. The differences would be more noticeable in a variety of circumstances/lighting situations, which I wish they would have done to get a clearer picture. I never put much stock in it, but maybe that''s just me.
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Date: 5/14/2009 9:10:27 AM
Author: Ellen
Date: 5/14/2009 9:02:45 AM

Author: Sharon101

There is a video on this site on the home page, in the videos section. Its called diamond comparison in NY. Random people have to guess the better cut diamond without being told which it is. It comes across to me that most people have to really consintrate to find a point of difference if at all. It surprised me that the better cut stone wasnt more obvious as being the better cut stone. I was expecting the better stone to almost reach out and slap the person looking at it or something `huge`.
2.gif
Click to expand...
I find that video rather disingenuous. It''s in one lighting situation, which is outside, where lots of diamonds can look good. The differences would be more noticeable in a variety of circumstances/lighting situations, which I wish they would have done to get a clearer picture. I never put much stock in it, but maybe that''s just me.
1.gif
Click to expand...
agree
In some lighting any reasonably well cut diamond will look pretty.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 5:55:18 AM
Author: DiamondFlame
Thanks for the links Strm.
1.gif


While there''s no hard data of the RB''s configuration, it does look relatively ''dull'' next to that awesome GOG Signature H n A. Does not help either that it is a smaller stone. I also like the Solasfera and Star129 for their difference. esp in spotlight.
Click to expand...
I asked Jon if he had the webpages with the diamonds information still available and to link them here for you if possible.

extra facet rounds can look awesome in spot lighting.
In larger sizes they can even give a RB a run for its money in diffused lighting.
In smaller sizes the virtual facets are on the small side to be effective in diffused or low lighting.
vf is explained here:

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/61/1/Virtual-Facets-and-patterns%2c-a-Discussion-about-step-cuts-.aspx
 
Greetings,

Was asked to post some data in this thread but thought I''d read a bit and answer some questions while I was at it.


Date: 5/13/2009 6:30:11 PM
Author:DiamondFlame
Ceteris paribus, if the crown/pavillion angle of the second RB is off the ideal range by say 2-to-5 tenths of a degree, would our eyes be able to see the difference in terms of its brightness, sparkle and scintillation?

Any videos showing this side by side comparison? I''m curious.
41.gif
Click to expand...
While I can''t personally post links to my own videos via the forum here the answers to your questions can be answered in the definite *affirmative*. When a diamond deviates outside of the "Ideal" range it is visible but particularly in diffuse/ambient lighting environments. There are non ideal cut diamonds that have spectacular fire and sparkle scintillation but downright nasty brightness and patterned scintillation. I know I have footage of this phenomena somewhere but this generally happens with shallow angled combos. In steep angled combos though all of the optics (brightness, patterned scintillation, fire & sparkle scintillation) are impacted in the negative.

With the camera''s/lens/lighting we use to show optical differences we can also show you variations in appearance between Ideal Cuts themselves and not necessarily just between Ideal & Non Ideal. We recently did a shoot of two GIA Excellent, true/traditional Hearts & Arrows diamonds and one had 3 sets of upper half angles that were cut too steep and most of the viewers we showed the clip to were able to see the decrease in brightness in the one with the 6 steep upper half angles.
34.gif
 
Date: 5/13/2009 11:50:42 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 5/13/2009 7:01:21 PM
Author: strmrdr
some newer ones here:
http://www.vimeo.com/album/44212

In particular this one:
http://www.vimeo.com/2281519
If you just watch one make it this last one.
Click to expand...
Strm,
Are there any other ways to link to these videos? They won''t play on my computer
38.gif
Click to expand...
You must have Adobe Flash installed and it must be the latest version. Once you do you''ll be able to view all flash video like what you see on YouTube and sites like Vimeo.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 5:55:18 AM
Author: DiamondFlame
Thanks for the links Strm.
1.gif

While there''s no hard data of the RB''s configuration, it does look relatively ''dull'' next to that awesome GOG Signature H n A. Does not help either that it is a smaller stone. I also like the Solasfera and Star129 for their difference. esp in spotlight.
Click to expand...
Smaller ... yes but with regards to weight, if memory serves me right there is only a .01ct difference between the 2. I''m researching which 2 I used. At this moment my editing computer is working on a project for a client so I''ll have to wait till that''s complete then I''ll see if I can find the hard data on the GOG Signature. I believe it is a 1.02ct alongside of a 1.01ct.
 
Once my current project completes I''ll see if I can find out for sure which GOG Signature I use in that clip and post a side by side of the hard data of the 2. One thing I''m pretty confident of is that it is one with 41.0 pavilion angles just from watching the clip.
 
Here's some hard data on the two 57 facet rounds.

Here are Isee2 Results. A digital optical exam that generally reflects what we see in diffuse lighting.

ISEE2RESULTSKAKAVSGOGSIG.gif
 
Here are GemEx BrillianceScope results which generally reflect what we see in spot lighting environments.

First the common...

BscopeKAKA.gif
 
And our Signature Diamond ....

Bscope102EVS2.gif
 
Here are PGS Results on the Common one ...

AGS PGS.gif
 
AGS PGS Results on our Signature Diamond.

102EVS2AGSPGSGIF.gif
 
How these fare in FacetWare.

KAKAFACETWARE.gif
 
...

BR102EVS2FACETWARE.gif
 
PhASET Imagery and DiamXray.

PHASETDXRAYKAKAGOGSIG.jpg
 
The Helium Report files are too large to publish here as they exceed 100k. They show the wonkiness and the precision of each diamond from a mathematical standpoint.

Interestingly the common diamond, while it certainly has steep upper half angles (average 49 degrees!!!
6.gif
) is reportedly only having average digging on the crown of only .41 degrees (.1 crown notches) and on the pavilion of only .06 degrees (0.0 notches). This doesn't surprise me though because painting/digging in and of itself is only one part of the equation ... the actual angles to which teh upper halves are cut can and will impact light performance. I've already witnessed it in precision cut H&A diamonds too cut with steep upper halves.
34.gif
 
Rhino- No doubt that first stone''s nowhere near ideal. In fact, it''s downright fugly.

Wondering if you can do a comparision with a non H&A that has great numbers, ideal scope, aset etc with a true H&A and how much of a difference would it be?

I''m asking because I have both stones. One of which is a beautiful H&A from you. It''s the K, VS1 1.04 that you''ve used in some of your older videos. And another that''s a GIA excellent (not H&A) 34 crown, 41 pavilion, 56 table, 60.9 depth. lower half is 80%. The stone is also gorgeous and I really can''t see a difference between the two. I mean they both has slightly differnet personalities, but I''m also attributing that to the size difference.
 
Hey Elle,



Date: 5/14/2009 4:05:46 PM
Author: elle_chris
Rhino- No doubt that first stone's nowhere near ideal. In fact, it's downright fugly.
Click to expand...
Most def.



Wondering if you can do a comparision with a non H&A that has great numbers, ideal scope, aset etc with a true H&A and how much of a difference would it be?
Click to expand...
I've seen diamonds with great IdealScope images, non H&A that were as beautiful as H&A's and I've also seen them with adverse optics I wouldn't buy or recommend. Every diamond is different and on a personal level, when I'm laying out the $$$ I like to know more than just general numbers. I like to know them all.



I'm asking because I have both stones. One of which is a beautiful H&A from you. It's the K, VS1 1.04 that you've used in some of your older videos. And another that's a GIA excellent (not H&A) 34 crown, 41 pavilion, 56 table, 60.9 depth. lower half is 80%. The stone is also gorgeous and I really can't see a difference between the two. I mean they both has slightly differnet personalities, but I'm also attributing that to the size difference.
Click to expand...
We can shoot any kind of comparison but in particular like to shoot the diamond in question as one facet set can throw things off in one direction or another. If you asked for a comparison of 2 diamonds we have here I'm happy to oblige but if I don't have here the exact diamond you want to see it would at best be a guestimate, which as much as I'd like to do for fun, would consume a lot of time which I can't afford. When/if I get enough requests for a particular shoot for educational purposes I may go out of my way to try to acquire the type of diamond people want to see for a comparison but to try to duplicate *your particular diamond* with its exact dimensions would not be easy as I'd also need to know star length, upper half angles and preferably not rounded GIA data because 41.0 pavilion angles can vary between 40.9 - 41.1 which alone could impact what you see and what we show in the video as well.

Kind regards,
 
No no, I didn''t mean a stone with my exact specs. Just a stone with a good idealscope image, #''s, etc.

Meaning comparing a well cut to an H&A. That I think would be interesting.
 
I would be interested in seeing this too. I was always curious how much of a difference H&A made over an otherwise excellent diamond that just happened to not be H&A.
 
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