antique cuts and culet?

[Green with Envy]

looking at antique cushions, OEC and OMC... I noticed that some have very large "holes" (I know not a technical term) in the center under the table... assuming that is the culet, and others do not. Is this mearly the visual differene of having a small culet versus a large culet? Or does this visual difference have something else to do with the cut of the diamond?

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Some of the old cuts can be magnificent. They typically show bigger/bolder flashes of light and typically have an open culet. Newer cuts tend to me more sparkly with smaller flashes and a small or no culet. I''m sure that somebody with more technical espertise will chime in with a more articulate explanation!

I guess that the point that I am trying to make is that both styles can be incredibly beautiful. You will want to go with the style that "looks" best to you.

 

[Green with Envy]

I know---I have fallen in love with the chunky fire of the OEC's!

So is an "open culet" the same as having a large culet... thus you can see it from the face of the stone? Surfgirl's stone is an OEC... but from pics it does not seem like you can see an open culet.. so there must be some technical term for the difference.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

As far as I know, an open culet is the same as a large culet [I guess open may be bigger than large!]. Where are the experts?!?

 

[DiamanteBlu]

BTW, who is that gorgeous cat in your avatar?

 

[Skippy123]

I think I know what you are talking about. I will post a pic and maybe that will help. This is Tiger07g's beautiful LM. Are you talking about the circle in the center? I noticed that in old cuts too.

 

[Harriet]

Do antique cushions have fewer facets than modern ones?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 11/23/2007 5:51:51 PM
Author: DiamanteBlu

As far as I know, an open culet is the same as a large culet [I guess open may be bigger than large!]. Where are the experts?!?

Yes, a culet is a facet polished onto the bottom of the pavilion of a diamond, parallel to the table facet at the top of the crown.

For many years all diamonds had the culet facet added to protect the tip of the pavilion from being chipped or damaged. Diamonds used to be set very low in jewelry and often the pavilion actually contacted the skin of the wearer’s finger, thus greater risk of damage to the exposed tip. Modern jewelry styles raise the pavilion of the diamond. The setting itself usually provides sufficient protection for the pavilion from impact and wear, so there is no need to add a culet.

Most modern rounds have either no culet (also described as pointed or closed), or a very small, or small culet. Technically, a round brilliant with no culet is a 57 facet diamond, while one with any culet is a 58 facet diamond. A culet of medium size or larger may adversely influence light return in a RB since it's optically a hole in the center of the diamond - but a larger culet is a part of the contrast and charm of earlier styles such as the Old European or Old Mine Cut.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Date: 11/23/2007 5:55:51 PM
Author: Skippy123
I think I know what you are talking about. I will post a pic and maybe that will help. This is Tiger07g''s beautiful LM. Are you talking about the circle in the center? I noticed that in old cuts too.

THUMP - What a gorgeous stone!!!

 

[Green with Envy]

Date: 11/23/2007 6:07:23 PM
Author: Harriet
Do antique cushions have fewer facets than modern ones?

i believe they do have fewer facets... Ari at Singlestone said there is a definite difference between the modern cushions and vintage. I think that old post from Boston jeff explains the different cushion cuts.

yes- skippy- that "hole" is what I meant... that is such a nice stone! Looking at vintage cuts... some have that open culet, but others do not, or have very very small holes. Both can look cool- i am just trying to find the technical words so I can describe to jewelers what I prefer.

 

[Green with Envy]

Date: 11/23/2007 5:52:37 PM
Author: DiamanteBlu
BTW, who is that gorgeous cat in your avatar?

That is Basil- my curious green eyed kitty!

BTW... totally cracks me up each time I read you signature...

============================
"Stop taking financial advice from broke people."


That is too funny to me! It is like that SNL skit... the video about how to get out of debt... and the advice is simply..Don''t buy things you can not afford!!! Duh.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 11/23/2007 6:58:52 PM
Author: Green with Envy

Date: 11/23/2007 6:07:23 PM
Author: Harriet
Do antique cushions have fewer facets than modern ones?

i believe they do have fewer facets... Ari at Singlestone said there is a definite difference between the modern cushions and vintage. I think that old post from Boston jeff explains the different cushion cuts.

yes- skippy- that ''hole'' is what I meant... that is such a nice stone! Looking at vintage cuts... some have that open culet, but others do not, or have very very small holes. Both can look cool- i am just trying to find the technical words so I can describe to jewelers what I prefer.

Good I am glad John answered; I knew what you were getting at. hehehee

 

[Ellen]

Green, here''s a pic of the bottom of my OMC. The main stones culet is reflecting yellow, and you can see that it looks flat, like someone cut it off a bit before where the tip would be.

 

[Green with Envy]

thanks ellen- I now understand the cut (flat) culet. I can see from your other ring pics that you can see that from the front at certain angles. Gosh- i am sooo jealous of your OMC. It has so much character! I have decided that an OMC has to be my RHR.

 

[Ellen]

Thank you Green, I do love it. I think you''ll be very happy with that!

And you''re welcome!

 

[Green with Envy]

Yours is better because a gift! Now I have the long difficult quest of finding one to buy. I think it is even worse because most all fantastic RB''s or H&A look the same so easy to find. With OEC--- every one looks a bit different. How in the world am I going to search and pick just ONE!!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/23/2007 8:40:22 PM
Author: Green with Envy
Yours is better because a gift! Now I have the long difficult quest of finding one to buy. I think it is even worse because most all fantastic RB''s or H&A look the same so easy to find. With OEC--- every one looks a bit different. How in the world am I going to search and pick just ONE!!!

Well you''re right, it was nice not having to pick it out or pay for it!

I know a few people have had very good luck with Ari at Singlestone. You might try him for finding you one. As for how to know which one is the right one, I''m just not sure, since I didn''t go through that.

I''d do all the searching and homework you can on them, that should help a bit. But, I suppose in the end, when you find one you''re interested in, you''ll just have to bring it home and have a look. Just be sure you''re buying from somone who has a good return policy.

 

[Green with Envy]

I am lucky that I have Ari right here in La. At his shop is were this OMC obssession started! I know he can get me one... but I am not sure about his prices compared to what i might get if GOG searched, or I found one at estatediamondjewelry.com, nelsonrarities, or antiqueengagementrings. com. All have GREAT return policies... unlike fay Cullen.

I might also hop in the shop where surfgirl found hers... it is just 1 1/2 hr drive away from me.

 

[Ellen]

Oh gosh Green, I didn''t know you were out THERE! Lucky girl, you can just go look at all of them. Use your eyes.

As for price, I dunno. Just compare. Plus, Singlestone being a private store, he may be willing to negotiate...

But honestly, I''d try buying one from a shop you can go in out there, before ordering them online, and doing the shipping biz and all that.

 

[Green with Envy]

i hear ya- I am in NYC for work next week so after a visit to Lm... i am going to check out some of the estate shops. I also trust GOG because that video thing they can do is great! And I am going to have Ari set my cushion pendant (see jewelry forum) so I will be a REPEAT customer and work a $ deal.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 11/23/2007 9:00:17 PM
Author: Green with Envy
I am lucky that I have Ari right here in La. At his shop is were this OMC obssession started! I know he can get me one... but I am not sure about his prices compared to what i might get if GOG searched, or I found one at estatediamondjewelry.com, nelsonrarities, or antiqueengagementrings. com. All have GREAT return policies... unlike fay Cullen.

I might also hop in the shop where surfgirl found hers... it is just 1 1/2 hr drive away from me.

Green, if you come down this way and want me to go with you to that shop, I''d be happy to. I do have to say that Ari''s prices were very good, IMO, after looking in a lot of places. The only thing is that he tends to get more inventory or lower colored stones (J and below/above, depending on how you look at it!). But I thought his prices were very good. The shop I got my ering in is going to be a bit higher because their storefront rent''s in a very pricey area. But that said, they''ll try to work with you and I think we got a very good price for our ering there. I was in there a couple weeks back and they had several really nice old cuts in the window and they have a lot more smaller stones (all are in vintage settings) in the store.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

BTW... totally cracks me up each time I read you signature...

============================

''Stop taking financial advice from broke people.''


That is too funny to me! It is like that SNL skit... the video about how to get out of debt... and the advice is simply..Don''t buy things you can not afford!!! Duh.

 

[Green with Envy]

Date: 11/24/2007 12:35:55 PM
Author: surfgirl

Date: 11/23/2007 9:00:17 PM
Author: Green with Envy
I am lucky that I have Ari right here in La. At his shop is were this OMC obssession started! I know he can get me one... but I am not sure about his prices compared to what i might get if GOG searched, or I found one at estatediamondjewelry.com, nelsonrarities, or antiqueengagementrings. com. All have GREAT return policies... unlike fay Cullen.

I might also hop in the shop where surfgirl found hers... it is just 1 1/2 hr drive away from me.

Green, if you come down this way and want me to go with you to that shop, I''d be happy to. I do have to say that Ari''s prices were very good, IMO, after looking in a lot of places. The only thing is that he tends to get more inventory or lower colored stones (J and below/above, depending on how you look at it!). But I thought his prices were very good. The shop I got my ering in is going to be a bit higher because their storefront rent''s in a very pricey area. But that said, they''ll try to work with you and I think we got a very good price for our ering there. I was in there a couple weeks back and they had several really nice old cuts in the window and they have a lot more smaller stones (all are in vintage settings) in the store.

hey- Surfgirl! Glad you chimed in because I told Jon at GOG last week that my quest was to find one as nice as yours!!! thanks about shopping...I will let you know- that would be fun so then I can drool over your ring in person. I used to walk past that shop everyday going to the little deli down the alley. I used to work at Morgan Stanley, right next to Ann taylor. My first big jewelry purchase was a pair of earrings at the Charrioll store... and I got my cartier watch down the street at CJ Charles. LJ is like my second home, but... I NEVER went into that vintage store!!! I guess I just would never appreciate it until now! The J''s I saw at Ari''s looked darn good to me! So we can check out the vintage store.. and jon at GOG offered to help... and I will go back to Ari. The only problem... as I mentioned above... they are all so different how will I decide on just The ONE!!!

 

[surfgirl]

Green, funny you know that area so well! I also hadn't been in that shop for about 10 years, but another ring pulled me in and although it wasn't the one for me, apparently it was the cosmos' way of getting me back to that shop. Great owners too.

I think you really need to go to Ari's and look at as many stones as possible and narrow it down to: budget, color, clarity...then continue looking.

Also, if you're going to NYC, call Michael Goldstein and ask him to have some goods ready for you to view. Apparently he supplies a lot of old stones to people who deal in them out here so he's the motherlode apparently, though I haven't been to his place. Maybe Nicrez has?

 

[Green with Envy]

Yes- I know that area of LJ like the back of my hand!!! i miss it.

I did find MG''s website... but can not view because only for the trade. Do you know if he sells directly to consumer? I just do not know enough about OEC''s yet to see him when I am in NYC next week- but maybe on the next trip. (Plus I probably need some time to fatten up the budget

)

 

[surfgirl]

NO! If you''re going to be in NYC next week, you HAVE to make an appt. to see MG. Please, for the love of all that''s right and holy in this world, go see him. Do it for ME! I''m begging. Well, I''m not on my knees but seriously, call him and see if you can stop by and see what he''s got. He does sell directly because I spoke with him before I found my ring and I was going to see him to look at loose stone. I would go and just let him know you''re at the beginning of your search but you''ll be in NYC and didn''t want to miss the opportunity to see what he has. Just.Do.It.

 

[Green with Envy]

Why do I think you just want me to go to MG so I can take some PICTURES!!!

Once I nail down my work schedule... I will see if I have time for an appointment. Too bad none of the good places are open on the weekends! Luckily I go to NYC every couple of months so if not this trip... I will go next time!

 

[Green with Envy]

OHHHHHH, SURFGIRL!!!!

Ok, just for you... I have an appointment with Michael this Friday just to LOOK.

 

[surfgirl]

Yeah! Atta girl! He sounded really nice when I spoke to him on the phone before. Hope it's a good meeting!

*sheepishly asks* Um, could you take a camera with you? Maybe?!?

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 11/23/2007 5:49:50 PM
Author: Green with Envy
I know---I have fallen in love with the chunky fire of the OEC''s!


So is an ''open culet'' the same as having a large culet... thus you can see it from the face of the stone? Surfgirl''s stone is an OEC... but from pics it does not seem like you can see an open culet.. so there must be some technical term for the difference.

I totally forgot to reply to this last month Green...Actually my transitional does indeed have an open culet but you are correct, it''s not huge..although for some reason my appraiser noted it as large but really it''s not..unless you''re looking at it under a scope!