Anthropomorphism

[kenny]

Recognizing, and avoiding this, (a skill that I will never stop working on) has been so important to my wonderful relationship with Bibi.

I take him out and about daily and he interacts with new people, so I see how nearly everyone he meets anthropomorphizes him.
Also, almost immediately I can tell when a new person doesn't, usually because they also have had good relationships with companion parrots.

 

[kenny]

Example:

Occasionally when Bibi is being very cuddly and affectionate, he'll surprise us with a strong bite ... right out of the blue.
That's not something a human would ever do to a loved one, well maybe except for some kinky fetish thing.

Sometimes the bite is hard enough to break the skin and bleed, though just a little.
Then I'm thankful he's not a large parrot capable of snapping a broomstick in half with its beak.

Maybe there's some birdie body language that we're missing.
Just because humans don't inflict a painful bite when two are relaxed, affectionate, and cuddling doesn't mean that is not common behavior for a different species.
If so, the bites are something we must accept and not react to.
And if so, my anger when it happens is not appropriate.

Perhaps biting in that context IS a part of parrot intimacy.
After all, unlike dogs and cats, parrots have not been domesticated by humans for a zillion generations selecting for qualities that humans prefer.

BTW, he's never bit when cuddling with a new person he just met.
He only bites me and my and DH who, by far, is his favorite human.
Maybe he considers us to be members of his flock.
But there I go again ... anthropomorphizing.

 

[missy]

lol I’m guilty of this!


Like this expression on Milton’s face



He’s asking where the hell we’ve been lol and also saying how much he missed us as we have missed him

 

[missy]

And this raccoon. Asking if we have any treats for him

 

[missy]

Pepsi is saying here…girl I know I’m beautiful but puhlease enough with the photos

 

[kenny]

LOL!

I admit, anthropomorphizing is just what we do, and of course there's nothing 'wrong' with it.

As that gal says, we can't help humanizing; it's what human brains do.

 

[kenny]

... ETA - but as she describes there can be times and reasons to be aware that doing it may limit the quality of our time and experience with a creature - particularly in the case of wanting the closest companion relationship with a highly intelligent non-domesticated highly-different creature, like a parrot.

We've heard of the horse-whisperer, and Ceasar Milan is sometimes called a dog-whisperer.
(Yes I know Milan's approach is not universally agreed with.)

 

[Matata]

but as she describes there can be times and reasons to be aware that doing it may limit the quality of our time and experience with a creature -

I'm not as concerned about that as I am what it might do to the quality of life of creatures. If anthropomorphizing helps humans support conservation of all non human creatures, then that's a good thing.

 

[missy]

I'm not as concerned about that as I am what it might do to the quality of life of creatures. If anthropomorphizing helps humans support conservation of all non human creatures, then that's a good thing.

I agree with this. One of the biggest pros as I see it is it can lead to the humane treatment of animals and animal rights under the best of circumstances.

ETA - but as she describes there can be times and reasons to be aware that doing it may limit the quality of our time and experience with a creature - particularly in the case of wanting the closest companion relationship with a highly intelligent non-domesticated highly-different creature, like a parrot.

And I also agree with this. One negative is it can lead to unrealistic expectations and also risky if it causes a person to think a wild animal could be a pet.

Definitely a double edged sword as with many things.

As a corollary (not sure it is actually a corollary but allow me some latitude) one could ask the question why they (me lol) prefer animals to (most) humans. And the answer could be in the way we view animals as innocent and helpless (not always true but not always false either). I know for me that is true. I personally view animals as not doing evil, being innocent (as we can agree humans certainly are guilty of evil) and I also view many animals as defenseless (against humans). So that contributes to the way I feel about animals.

There is actually a study that suggests compasson for animals might be linked to genetics. But I also know one can learn how to love animals if one is lucky enough to get the experience of having an animal in their house. For example neither of my parents grew up with pets but both wanted to get a pet when they were able to as adults. And well my family is crazy about all animals. My DH on the other end of the spectrum also never grew up with animals (his mom was not a fan) and when he reached adulthood having no experience with pets didn't have the urge to get one. But then he met me and was open minded (though very allergic) and the rest is history. We have more cats now than we did when we were dating LOL.

I have always been a fan of allowing children to have the responsibility of having a pet. They teach about life. About obligation and responsibility and even teach about death and grief. So in my mind it would be ideal for every child to have the experience of growing up with a pet. If possible.

But I digress. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts on this topic. I love animals so much and do prefer them to (most) humans. Especially now.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I think it's perfectly appropriate to wonder if he considers you and DH as his flock.
With horses you had to establish yourself as a dominant member of the herd. Fairness is highly regarded with horses, meaning if someone (horse) deserves a kick for bad behavior, it should be administered fairly. Fearful, let them jump away when they need to. Making them feel safe is more valuable than treats.
OTOH, if you're referring to Bibi as "our son" and dressing him in little outfits, you might be missing the big picture.

 

[kenny]

Another thought.

At my advanced age, whenever possible, I bend over backwards to avoid people.
I'm just very disappointed, jaded even, with most humans.

I even drive on side roads, especially ones with lots of trees or the most pleasant feeling.
Why? Mostly to avoid interaction with other people (actually, of course, with their cars each of which is an extension of its human).
Traveling takes a bit longer, but the better experience is worth it.

Perhaps I prefer animals to humans, in part, because certain ones are more 'moldable' into being the way I want them to be.
Whereas, we have little control over other people.

I know, I know

Let's face it, we humans want things OUR way.
Well, this one does.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

What I have no control over is . . . cats. When you said bend over backwards, I thought you were referring to them. People - you just leave the room.

 

[kenny]

What I have no control over is . . . cats. When you said bend over backwards, I thought you were referring to them. People - you just leave the room.

Maybe that's why I'm not a cat person, and no I was not referring to cats.

As for people ... Instead of leaving the room, I endeavor to not even enter the room.

For example, in my line of work I'm constantly declining invitations for dinner, drinks, conferences, meetings, etc.
I tell 'em my doctor says my medical conditions warrant maximum social isolation to avoid getting Covid (so far so good, I'm still a 'unicorn').
If they don't believe my medical justification, I don't give a rats @ss.

I don't care that not schmoozing limits my career advancement.
I do just fine, and avoiding socializing advances what I value more than money, peace of mind.

 

[missy]

Another thought.

At my advanced age, whenever possible, I bend over backwards to avoid people.
I'm just very disappointed, jaded even, with most humans.

I even drive on side roads, especially ones with lots of trees or the most pleasant feeling.
Why? Mostly to avoid interaction with other people (actually, of course, with their cars each of which is an extension of its human).
Traveling takes a bit longer, but the better experience is worth it.

Perhaps I prefer animals to humans, in part, because certain ones are more 'moldable' into being the way I want them to be.
Whereas, we have little control over other people.

I know, I know

Let's face it, we humans want things OUR way.
Well, this one does.

For me it’s not that I can’t control humans (and as I brake possums pointed out we can’t control cats lol). It’s that many (most maybe) humans suck. Look at history. Look at current events. No. I prefer animals because they’re not evil. Because they are innocent. Humans destroy everything they touch.

That’s me though. And as with everything it’s ok to vary

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Excellent reasoning. And you're the man of mystery.
I've used "livestock" to get out of physically being at meetings. And parties make me cringe. We have a bit in common.
Just wish I had your eye for diamonds.

 

[kenny]

Excellent reasoning. And you're the man of mystery.
I've used "livestock" to get out of physically being at meetings. And parties make me cringe. We have a bit in common.
Just wish I had your eye for diamonds.

Thanks.
Maybe I could add some medical directive thingie to my will, to have my eyes donated to you.

When you "use livestock to get out of meetings" do you direct your herd of cattle to stampede the conference room?
And, doesn't that make an awful mess?

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I'd need your brain.
Livestock means "I do first feed at 7 a.m." Never mind all the horses are buried and I'm feeding the semi-crippled stray cat, the cardinals and my pair of Canada geese. Cows, no thanks. Don't care to milk, can't eat them once I've fed them.

What is the status of the small mofo diamond? I happen to like smaller diamonds and this has been on my radar.

 

[kenny]

He’s asking where the hell we’ve been lol and also saying how much he missed us as we have missed him

No no no.
You're misreading Milton.

He's obviously is telling you to mail all your diamonds and that beautiful opal to sweet wonderful Kenny.

I mean, it's as plain as the look on his face ...
That toothy smile, the poofy cheeks, and the endearing way his head is cocked to one side.
Yep, it's clear what he's saying!

You know, you really should listen to Milton.

 

[lyra]

Kenny, it was great to hear you talk about Bibi. I'm a bird person too. I have a 4 year old parakeet. He is the most prolific talker I have ever seen. Birds are so smart. He says "Don't bite" when you're about to cross some invisible boundary. This week he said for the first time "you psycho freak". I think he listens to my true crime podcasts.

Birds are dramatic and amazing and follow their own logic. If you got bit it was absolutely your fault. You may never understand the why, and it may change at literally any moment. I get bit a lot, but not seriously. If it's a serious bite, I hold my tongue and ignore it completely. Sometimes I just want to laugh.

When he's tired he says "time to go to your cage". I didn't teach him any of these phrases, but he picks things up so easily. Anyway, I tend not to anthropomorphize pets. I love them and take care of what I know are their actual physical and mental needs. And heaven knows the whole family life revolves around not harming the bird by any means and giving him the richest environment possible.

I will still always prefer animals to people.

 

[kenny]

@lyra
Hello fellow "parront".

If you don't mind, here are some questions ... of course only if you care to answer.

What can you tell us about your little buddy?
Wings clipped?
Does he have a favorite person 'in your flock'?
Is he your only bird?

Any other pets in the house?
Was he a hand-fed baby, or did his parents feed him all the time up till weaning?
Was he from a pet shop, breeder, rescue agency, other?

Do you ever take him out of the house?
Bibi and I go out together almost daily.
Wings-trimmed he just stays put on my shoulder.
He also loves to go on the shoulder of, and interact with, people we meet (after hearing my little speech and agreeing to guidelines).

I don't know whether this illustration is complete, but what type of parakeet is yours?
Care to post some pics?

 

[lyra]

He is a budgie, and his name is Goji (Gojira/Godzilla). He was from a breeder who did hand feed him. He likes all of us, but always looks to me for approval or something. I'm not sure why he does that. I mean this little guy lands on me just to poop about 40 times a day. His first questions of the day are usually "did you poop?" and "can I touch your toes?".

Unclipped. He was originally clipped because as a baby for the first 6 months he was flying way too fast and I was worried he'd hit a wall. He is out of his cage (if he chooses) 10 hours a day. He goes to bed at 6pm and gets up at 7.

Socially, I wish we had room for more birds, but we don't. It's not advised to keep a single budgie, but that's probably the reason he's a great talker. I wouldn't add a buddy at this stage. He doesn't make strange once he sees you more than once. He will land on anyone, but he won't necessarily talk. He practices his phrases talking to a particular toy in his cage.

We also have 2 chihuahuas Murphy (14) and Casper (10). When my daughter got married a couple of years ago we hired an in house petsitter mostly to make sure Goji would be okay and would get covered at the right time. He didn't say a word while she was here. He can tell when someone isn't a bird person.

I'll have to post a picture another time. They're all on my phone not my laptop. He's turquoise with a yellow face.

 

[kenny]

Awww.
Goji's a little sweetheart, and so well-integrated into your family, I mean his flock.
I've had, and love budgies, though I don't recall ever seeing them for sale as hand-fed.
If anything every happened to Bibi, I'd look for a hand fed budgie.
But I hear even if not hand fed budgies are very easy to tame if young enough.

Another great thing about budgies is, if you are a guy who swims, you can wear a budgie smuggler.
I think Budgie Smuggler is an actual brand name of swimwear from Australia.
I just wonder what they call their swimsuits for women. LOL



I'm no expert, but if he's interacting with you humans 10 hours a day I'd say he doesn't need a birdie buddy.
I think that advice is for those who don't or can't interact with a single bird that much.

... looking forward to pics of Goji.

 

[Karl_K]

Is it bad to Anthropomorphism people?

 

[Karl_K]

Anthropomorphism applied to an octavia is perfectly ok? Right?!?!?! Right?!?!?!
How they want to come out in the light and play.......... blasting fire near and far.......getting so lonely and depressed in the dark vault,,,,,,all they want to do is play in the light! :}

 

[missy]

No no no.
You're misreading Milton.

He's obviously is telling you to mail all your diamonds and that beautiful opal to sweet wonderful Kenny.

I mean, it's as plain as the look on his face ...
That toothy smile, the poofy cheeks, and the endearing way his head is cocked to one side.
Yep, it's clear what he's saying!

You know, you really should listen to Milton.

LOL thank you Kenny for explaining that. Wow I cannot believe I got it so wrong
Send me your address so we can honor Milton's request

 

[missy]

I think we can all agree Gracie Frances is asking for (demanding) a tummy rub, tummy rub here



And she got what she wanted

 

[Matata]

I hate it when people dress their animals in costumes and clothes (except clothes that are meant to protect the animal). There, I said it, flame away, I can take it.

 

[Lookinagain]

I don't dress my dog in people type clothes. Just put a dog coat on him when it's really cold. However, I definitely talk to him like he is a person and I'm pretty sure he understands me. At least when he wants to!

 

[kenny]

Anthropomorphism applied to an octavia is perfectly ok? Right?!?!?! Right?!?!?!
How they want to come out in the light and play.......... blasting fire near and far.......getting so lonely and depressed in the dark vault,,,,,,all they want to do is play in the light! :}

Ah yes.
@Karl_K my Octavia is beautiful, and OH BOY does he KNOW IT!
He's even more vain and self-absorbed than #45.

Every day he begs me to take him out to show off.
His favorite place to perform is an elevator with those tiny halogen lights recessed into in a dark ceiling.

At night he begs me to take him for a drive on the freeways of Los Angeles.
He makes me flip up my hand and hold it over the rear view mirror with his table pointing back at the cars behind us so he can erupt with a volcano of every color of the rainbow.

Whenever we're out and about, he makes me hold up and position my hand just so.
He wants to be held at the perfect angle so he can reflect the light from a small pointed source behind someone he is trying to seduce.
Then he beams to them a blinding kaleidoscope of colors.
He gets really mad if they don't stare and drool ... well ... and he really loves it when when they faint.
LOL

Darn you Karl!
Your gifted child makes it really hard for me to get work done or concentrate on anything else.

 

[Karl_K]

@kenny, your welcome!