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Anthony Ciccone, Madonna's brother homeless

Imdanny

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Despite bitter cold weather, homeless people are flocking to Traverse City — including even Anthony Ciccone, brother of Michigan native and pop star Madonna — because of the city’s exceptional network of services for people on the street.

In an interview with Michigan Messenger, Ciccone explained why so many homeless people from throughout the region have flocked to the northern town of about 14,000.

“This is a unique system with the churches here,” Ciccone, 55, said over a roast beef dinner served by volunteers at the Faith Reform Church on Front St. “You won’t find this in too many places.”

The churches in town have collaborated to put on a meal each night that is free and open to anyone in the community. There is a church-run house that provides warmth, showers, laundry, food, computers, telephone and other services for four hours most days, and in the winter the churches take turns hosting people who need a place to sleep. They also provide breakfast.

“This is one of the only places where there is a meal every night,” said Richard Tomey, a street outreach worker for Goodwill Industries. His mission is to help the homeless survive.

In late September, he said, there were several dozen, if not a hundred, homeless people sleeping outdoors in Traverse City.

“The word getting out about Traverse City attracts a lot of people … [from] Ypsilanti, Detroit, Grand Rapids, where they are getting hit real hard and there’s only two type of people on the street, the predators and the victims.”

“They’re coming up here,” Tomey said, “and we are trying to do the best we can.”

Ciccone said he’s been among the city’s homeless for a year and a half since losing a job at his father’s vineyard and winery in Suttons Bay. He said that it annoys him that some people are amused that a person from such a high profile family would end up sleeping, as he does, under the Union St. bridge.

“My family turned their back on me, basically, when I was having a hard time,” he said. “You think I haven’t answered this kind of question a bazillion times — why my sister is a multibazillionarie, and I’m homeless on the street?”

“Never say never,” he said. “This could happen to anybody.”

“I don’t have any income, I’ve got to go collect bottles and cans, do odd jobs.”

Despite the uncommon community effort to help the homeless here, there are gaps, and Ciccone was among several locals who got cold-related injuries last winter.

“They can’t do everything all the time for everybody, they just don’t have the resources,” he said. “These people that run these things are all volunteers, they don’t get paid to to do these things.”

In the cold seasons the church shelters usher people out at 8 am and city rules against camping and camp fires make staying warm difficult.

“Where do you go at 8 o’clock on a Sunday morning and you have no money in your pocket?”

If you spend enough time on frozen concrete without proper insulation you will get frostbite, he said. “You have no idea how gruesome it is.”

“You get nerve damage. That’s the milder stage, in the severe stage you have tissue damage, that is when you lose parts of your body.”

“I got frostbite on my feet last winter, Ciccone said. “A friend of mine lost all ten toes. Several have died of hypothermia.”

“You go and find a place to stay warm like the lobby at the jail, or you take a walk to get your feet warm and go to Meijer’s and sit in the lobby there.”

This situation has developed at a time when Gov. Snyder and the Republican-led state legislature have slashed funding for social services and reduced the number of people eligible to continue receiving public assistance. Cuts in local revenue sharing have also forced local municipalities to make deep budget cuts.

As more and more people become ineligible under new rules government unemployment benefits, food stamps, cash aid and heating assistance, the number of people struggling to stay off the streets is only likely to increase.

http://washingtonindependent.com/114135/traverse-city-of-michigan-becomes-magnet-for-the-homeless
 

missy

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So sad. :((
 

partgypsy

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That sounds like they have a good program up there, especially if people are traveling to Michigan when it's turning winter.

As far as Madonna's brother, I don't know him personally, but many homeless also have mental illness or substance abuse/dependence issues. I don't know his own personal story. The Ciccone family is no different from many other American families out there, who struggle with, how much do you help/support someone who is struggling but is not reciprocating helping themselves? I find it hard to believe his father would fire him if there weren't significant issues, multiple chances given. I wouldn't be surprised if the family doesn't want to talk about it.

Maybe this hits too close to home, but I have a black sheep brother. Basically, he is a professional f**kup. Whatever help he is given, he will sabotage/make the worst out of it. Much of the resources of the family went to him, for rehab, counseling, my parents paying for his rent until he would get kicked out, then paying for motels when apartments wouldn't accept him, until it came too expensive and he came to live with one of my parents. He's bleeding her dry. In his case I wish he was up there in Travers City. Not saying Madonna's brother is the same, but if he were, is there a rule that if you are family you are obligated to permanently support someone like that? I think you know my answer.

There are people out there that legitimately need help, and there are too few safety nets, in particular for people who have mental illness or substance abuse. Right now, the US mentality it is that it is the family's problem. If the family will not or is unable to help, or there is no family in most cases, that person become homeless or end up in prison.
 

Imdanny

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part gypsy|1319550027|3047205 said:
I remember long time ago Madonna hiring him to decorate her house.

Actually, I think you're thinking of Christopher.

Maybe this hits too close to home, but I have a black sheep brother. Much of the resources of the family went to him, for rehab, counseling, my parents paying for his rent until he would get kicked out, then paying for motels when apartments wouldn't accept him, until it came too expensive and he came to live with one of my parents. He's bleeding her dry. In his case I wish he was up there in Travers City because on emotionally and financially our family simply can't afford it.

I'm sorry about your brother. Though, I've been homeless and could never wish it on another human being.

As far as Madonna goes, having $650 million and looking the other way, I mean financially, while her own brother is homeless and living under a bridge, shows her to be the vile narcissist she has become or has always been.
 

ksinger

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Dickens? Anyone?

Remember, those people just need to go out and get a job, or die and reduce the surplus population. :rolleyes:
 

Imdanny

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ksinger|1319551115|3047215 said:
Dickens? Anyone?

Remember, those people just need to go out and get a job, or die and reduce the surplus population. :rolleyes:

I hear ya. It's all their fault. Teh drugs! Chances! Tough bleep! Live under a bridge like a troll, Anthony Ciconne, and if ten of your toes get frozen and have to be sawed off, it really was your fault, you loser! :rolleyes:

I read a blog about Madonna (that's where I found this) and these people knew, I'm telling you, they knew, somehow, even though they knew no such thing, how it was drugs and noooobody could help him, too bad, so sad. And yeah, they literally were making fun of him, calling him a loser. You know, Madonna used her siblings (and her family in Italy) when it suited her. Now she flies over her brother living under a bridge in her Gulfstream jet. Unreal.
 

Black Jade

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Terrible situation. I am glad the churches are doing what they can. They are much more efficient than the government at taking care of things like this, in my experience. If I was down and out I wouldn't want to deal with govt bureaucracy but with a church.

I'm not going to judge Madonna on this one until I know the whole story. She may be being a completely heartless human being (and nothing I have ever read about her makes me think that she is a decent person) but I don't know this particular story. My mother is being judged harshly by a nephew right now for 'not helping her sister who is mentally ill while she has so much' but actually my mother and other family members have done nothing but help her sister all her life, to no avail (both are now in their 80's). My mother GAVE her two houses without charging a penny at different times, which her sister lsot and ended up homeless for a time. Then my mother and other family members sent her back to our home country where we thought she might function better and set her up in another house. It didn't work, either. My mother used to go down to check on her and had people taking care of her. didn't work. When people are mentally ill it is very hard. My aunt is back living near my mother (in a house bought for her by another brother) and the same thing is going to happen again. (the brother bought the house near my mother, not him, as he had her living with him for a bit and couldn't take it. she is delusional, literally AND very verbally abusive). The poor lady cannot be institutionalized, as she should be, because of laws that make it impossible to do this to an adult who has not shown themselves to be a danger to themselves or others. A long time before a person gets to that point, they can be utterly impossible to deal with and also the person trying to take care of them can get sick from the stress. Many of these people also can present themselves so well that uninitiated people may not realize how sick they are. I have a son who is bipolar and has some other issues and has done some really strange things, but he presents himself so well and is so eloquent and well-spoken that people have a lot of trouble believing he is actually mentally ill. One of my dreads is that he would turn out to be unable to take care of himself someday and we are trying to prevent that, but I don't know if we can.

But I do not want my other kids to feel responsible for him, seeing what havoc that has worked in the life of my mother, feeling responsible for this sister (which she still does, though she has stopped pouring money down the drain for her). Not to speak of the emotional havoc that we have all lived through.

Anyway, I refuse to judge this situation, not knowing all of it.

These situations can get really bad. I have a friend whose parents home burnt down last year and his father died from a fire set in the house by a mentally ill/drug addicted brother that had made complete havoc in the family for years. When you talk to my friend and don't know the whole story, it sounds as if my friend is heartless but he's not--he's exhausted by a very long running situation (about 50 years) which seems to have no solution. the brother still does not take responsibility for setting the fire. The father died from smoke inhalation, the house burnt down to the ground.
 

partgypsy

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I know I am projecting way too much on Anthony because I don't know him personally, but for my brother, any amount of help is too little. My question is, if your family has money, are you entitled to that money, simply because you are biologically related?
Not saying she has this situation, but if she had a brother like mine, I can understand "Madge" feeling that an orphan from the continent of Africa is more deserving of help than her own older brother, especially if he HAS been given assistance many times before.

Thanks Black Jade for posting that. If you talked to my brother he can be very charming and convincing where you feel he is the victim. One of his favorite quotes is "strangers treat me better than my own family!" And to that we respond, "wonder why that is? Maybe we know you a little better"
 

partgypsy

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Don't worry, the fact that he managed to find one of the better supported homeless programs, gets a free meal every day, and is giving interviews to the media, I think he'll do ok. Just don't ask him to explain why his "whole family turned their backs on him". As long as other members of his family have money, I'm sure he doesn't think it's relevant :rolleyes: .
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I don't think this situation is quite the same as having a troubled relative who is draining the family of their resources. By that i mean both financial and emotional.
Unless he tried to ill her, madonna, or her children , I cannot think of any reason to not help this brother. She can go to go to a bank, set up a trust, buy or rent him an apartment, and have nothing to do with him herself. What cost? Not that much for someone in her position. A person only needs shelter, food warmth to survive. No, I don't think she's a decent person. Even f I had no respect for the person, I would, if I had the resources to keep him in some degree, out of harms way, I would. Frost bite, wow.

its not that he deserves it, it should be part of her humanity. Come-on Madonna, get him out of the cold!

Annette
 

junebug17

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I haven't read all the replies, and I'm trying in general not to be too judgemental (have a tendancy to do that), and I don't know the details about his reasons for being homeless...but seriously, I would think that Madonna, with all of her millions, could at least help her brother out to the point of keeping him off the streets. Maybe at least spring for a cheap hotel room.

ETA I was referring to being judgemental towards Madonna for not helping her brother, just wanted to clarify!
 

Amys Bling

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it's terribly sad to think of people living on the streets.


I think it's hard to judge Madonna and the family in regards to the brother's situation. No one really knows the back story and what happens in private.
 

VRBeauty

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I have problems with the way we treat our homeless, not to mention the elimination of many mental health programs that in the past helped prevent some of the homelessness we see now.

That said, I'm not interested in judging Madonna based on what I've read here. It appears that her brother is relatively intelligent and articulate, and that the family has tried to help him in the past. Who knows whether he did something that precipitated the falling-out, or whether his family is just heartless? Not me, not based on what I've read here. Maybe he blew off prior second chances. Maybe he also thinks that if his family has the means they have an obligation to support him, no matter what he does or does not do. Maybe he's a world-class user and manipulator, and they want him to make a greater effort to stand on his own two feet. Maybe they are keeping tabs on him, and would intervene if necessary. I don't know. I do have a user/addict/master manipulator in my past though... and I'm not going to judge Madonna and family just because of this story.
 

kenny

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Nobody, rich or poor, famous or obscure, is responsible for adult family members.

Each of us is responsible for making our own way.
 

galeteia

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Uh, calling BS here.

I remember reading a long time ago (probably in my teens, so 15 years ago?) some stories on Madonna's brother being a hot mess who was constantly doing stupid shi*t and then her having to clean up after him/bail him out, pay off his debts, support him, etc and that things were becoming strained between them as a result because he would just do it over and over again. I think massive gambling debts were involved? I can't remember the exact details. He was basically freeloading off her and living an extravagant lifestyle while doing so.

Just because you have a relative who makes $$$ doesn't mean that entitles you to spend money like water and expect they'll continually throw more at you, and then go crying to them and the media (which he was doing even back then) when your rich famous sister is getting tired of being your sugar momma.

Looks like his dad got fed up too and booted him out of the family business. It seems logical that drugs or other addictions, or even mental illness was at play, but it's NOT the tale of an innocent man being abandoned by his cold-hearted rich family. There's been over a decade of crap that's led up to this point, and she shouldn't have to keep enabling him if it hasn't helped so far.

Edit: in fact, wasn't her brother pulling shenanigans in that movie documentary she made? I will do some googling and report back.

Edit 2: Yup: "Madonna and Christopher wait for their older brother, Martin to show up, and discuss his substance abuse problems. When Martin arrives, Christopher has left and Madonna has gone to bed." I didn't remember what they were talking about, but I remember them waiting and waiting and him standing them up, and her giving up and going to bed and telling someone that "if he shows up, tell him I'm very disappointed in him." Wait, Martin ... not Anthony.
 

galeteia

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Further digging:

"What the articles do not discuss is the background of Ciccone's drug use, treatment facility stays, and repeated help from Madonna and her family to treat addiction problems. UpNorthLive spoke with a close family friend and employee of Ciccone Vineyard about the media attention.

"He has had multiple opportunities and we have done so many things and committed so many resources to get him help. We've done so much over the past 15 years and attempted to help him but he has done nothing to help himself. There is nothing more we or anyone else can do. He is where he is because of himself," explained the family friend. "He has had more help than 95 percent of the people out there, there is nothing more we can do." The family friend went on to say, "Anthony will take this media attention as far as he can."

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=678180#.TqePG7JbWWY

Thought so!
 

Imdanny

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Galateia|1319603388|3047751 said:
Uh, calling BS here.

I remember reading a long time ago (probably in my teens, so 15 years ago?) some stories on Madonna's brother being a hot mess who was constantly doing stupid shi*t and then her having to clean up after him/bail him out, pay off his debts, support him, etc and that things were becoming strained between them as a result because he would just do it over and over again. I think massive gambling debts were involved? I can't remember the exact details. He was basically freeloading off her and living an extravagant lifestyle while doing so.

Just because you have a relative who makes $$$ doesn't mean that entitles you to spend money like water and expect they'll continually throw more at you, and then go crying to them and the media (which he was doing even back then) when your rich famous sister is getting tired of being your sugar momma.

Looks like his dad got fed up too and booted him out of the family business. It seems logical that drugs or other addictions, or even mental illness was at play, but it's NOT the tale of an innocent man being abandoned by his cold-hearted rich family. There's been over a decade of crap that's led up to this point, and she shouldn't have to keep enabling him if it hasn't helped so far.

Edit: in fact, wasn't her brother pulling shenanigans in that movie documentary she made? I will do some googling and report back.

Edit 2: Yup: "Madonna and Christopher wait for their older brother, Martin to show up, and discuss his substance abuse problems. When Martin arrives, Christopher has left and Madonna has gone to bed." I didn't remember what they were talking about, but I remember them waiting and waiting and him standing them up, and her giving up and going to bed and telling someone that "if he shows up, tell him I'm very disappointed in him." Wait, Martin ... not Anthony.

Yep, you wrote that whole post and you didn't even know who you were talking about. Your narrative is simply a lie you were told or something you imagined. I challenge you to find me one, single link proving your assertion that Madonna ever supported any of her siblings in an "extravagant lifestyle." No rush, I've got time. Or let me save you the time. Madonna has done no such thing. If you knew anything about Christopher Ciconne's book, you would know that Madonna has absolutely never been the person you just described. Madonna is my second favorite star after Elizabeth Taylor. I think you're going to have to do a little more than a Google search before being able to do anything other than tell made up stories like this.
 

Imdanny

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Galateia|1319604082|3047755 said:
Further digging:

"What the articles do not discuss is the background of Ciccone's drug use, treatment facility stays, and repeated help from Madonna and her family to treat addiction problems. UpNorthLive spoke with a close family friend and employee of Ciccone Vineyard about the media attention.

"He has had multiple opportunities and we have done so many things and committed so many resources to get him help. We've done so much over the past 15 years and attempted to help him but he has done nothing to help himself. There is nothing more we or anyone else can do. He is where he is because of himself," explained the family friend. "He has had more help than 95 percent of the people out there, there is nothing more we can do." The family friend went on to say, "Anthony will take this media attention as far as he can."

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=678180#.TqePG7JbWWY

Thought so!

A current employee of the Cicocone Vineyard released a statement with all of the: blame the homeless person, basically call him a media whore (this is priceless: "Anthony will take this media attention as far as he can."), and surprise of surprises!- tells us about the "multiple opportunities" aka known as "chances" the former employee was was given and, yes, about all of the "help" the brother was given, all of this by the "family friend" and um, current employer.

I don't usually go to someone's former employer and "family friend" to hear their self-serving conclusions about people they fired because, "Thought so!" is an understatement. I'm pretty sure you did expect a current employee of the Ciconne Vineyard to basically call Anthony Ciconne a drug addict and a write-off.

It would be such an easy way to think about homelessness in America: just think of them all as 'bad,' problem solved. We might want to be a little more sophisticated and only blame some of them. Or we might want to actually stop blaming and stigmatizing the homeless. But that would require us to step out of our "it doesn't happen to people like me" comfort zone and, well, most people are either not able or not willing to think of the homeless as anything other than stereotypes.
 

galeteia

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Imdanny|1319611119|3047787 said:
Galateia|1319603388|3047751 said:
Uh, calling BS here.

I remember reading a long time ago (probably in my teens, so 15 years ago?) some stories on Madonna's brother being a hot mess who was constantly doing stupid shi*t and then her having to clean up after him/bail him out, pay off his debts, support him, etc and that things were becoming strained between them as a result because he would just do it over and over again. I think massive gambling debts were involved? I can't remember the exact details. He was basically freeloading off her and living an extravagant lifestyle while doing so.

Just because you have a relative who makes $$$ doesn't mean that entitles you to spend money like water and expect they'll continually throw more at you, and then go crying to them and the media (which he was doing even back then) when your rich famous sister is getting tired of being your sugar momma.

Looks like his dad got fed up too and booted him out of the family business. It seems logical that drugs or other addictions, or even mental illness was at play, but it's NOT the tale of an innocent man being abandoned by his cold-hearted rich family. There's been over a decade of crap that's led up to this point, and she shouldn't have to keep enabling him if it hasn't helped so far.

Edit: in fact, wasn't her brother pulling shenanigans in that movie documentary she made? I will do some googling and report back.

Edit 2: Yup: "Madonna and Christopher wait for their older brother, Martin to show up, and discuss his substance abuse problems. When Martin arrives, Christopher has left and Madonna has gone to bed." I didn't remember what they were talking about, but I remember them waiting and waiting and him standing them up, and her giving up and going to bed and telling someone that "if he shows up, tell him I'm very disappointed in him." Wait, Martin ... not Anthony.

Yep, you wrote that whole post and you didn't even know who you were talking about. Your narrative is simply a lie you were told or something you imagined. I challenge you to find me one, single link proving your assertion that Madonna ever supported any of her siblings in an "extravagant lifestyle." No rush, I've got time. Or let me save you the time. Madonna has done no such thing. If you knew anything about Christopher Ciconne's book, you would know that Madonna has absolutely never been the person you just described. Madonna is my second favorite star after Elizabeth Taylor. I think you're going to have to do a little more than a Google search before being able to do anything other than tell made up stories like this.

Woah there. Foggy memory yes, but accusing me of outright lying is going a little too far.

I prefaced this post by stating it's something I read (btw in a print magazine no less) 15 years ago. It was not from a google search. I admitted I was foggy on the details, but I remember even back then there was scandal going on in regards to her brother. That's all I was saying.

I came back later to add (hence the Edit) that I had remembered something from her documentary movie, but promised to google to clarify. I did find the info about her brother, but I didn't realize she had more than two. That's why I corrected myself and posted the correction that I was confusing Martin with Anthony. I have no idea which one the original story was about, I just remembered that she had two of them and the younger one wasn't the black sheep.

Edit: Again, 15 years ago, but even if I am not sure about which brother, I clearly remember dust-up was over him expecting her to bankroll him. Perhaps it was the drug addicted brother, I have no idea.
 

Imdanny

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Galateia|1319612259|3047792 said:
Imdanny|1319611119|3047787 said:
Galateia|1319603388|3047751 said:
Uh, calling BS here.

I remember reading a long time ago (probably in my teens, so 15 years ago?) some stories on Madonna's brother being a hot mess who was constantly doing stupid shi*t and then her having to clean up after him/bail him out, pay off his debts, support him, etc and that things were becoming strained between them as a result because he would just do it over and over again. I think massive gambling debts were involved? I can't remember the exact details. He was basically freeloading off her and living an extravagant lifestyle while doing so.

Just because you have a relative who makes $$$ doesn't mean that entitles you to spend money like water and expect they'll continually throw more at you, and then go crying to them and the media (which he was doing even back then) when your rich famous sister is getting tired of being your sugar momma.

Looks like his dad got fed up too and booted him out of the family business. It seems logical that drugs or other addictions, or even mental illness was at play, but it's NOT the tale of an innocent man being abandoned by his cold-hearted rich family. There's been over a decade of crap that's led up to this point, and she shouldn't have to keep enabling him if it hasn't helped so far.

Edit: in fact, wasn't her brother pulling shenanigans in that movie documentary she made? I will do some googling and report back.

Edit 2: Yup: "Madonna and Christopher wait for their older brother, Martin to show up, and discuss his substance abuse problems. When Martin arrives, Christopher has left and Madonna has gone to bed." I didn't remember what they were talking about, but I remember them waiting and waiting and him standing them up, and her giving up and going to bed and telling someone that "if he shows up, tell him I'm very disappointed in him." Wait, Martin ... not Anthony.

Yep, you wrote that whole post and you didn't even know who you were talking about. Your narrative is simply a lie you were told or something you imagined. I challenge you to find me one, single link proving your assertion that Madonna ever supported any of her siblings in an "extravagant lifestyle." No rush, I've got time. Or let me save you the time. Madonna has done no such thing. If you knew anything about Christopher Ciconne's book, you would know that Madonna has absolutely never been the person you just described. Madonna is my second favorite star after Elizabeth Taylor. I think you're going to have to do a little more than a Google search before being able to do anything other than tell made up stories like this.

Woah there. Foggy memory yes, but accusing me of outright lying is going a little too far.

I prefaced this post by stating it's something I read (btw in a print magazine no less) 15 years ago. It was not from a google search. I admitted I was foggy on the details, but I remember even back then there was scandal going on in regards to her brother. That's all I was saying.

I came back later to add (hence the Edit) that I had remembered something from her documentary movie, but promised to google to clarify. I did find the info about her brother, but I didn't realize she had more than two. That's why I corrected myself and posted the correction that I was confusing Martin with Anthony. I have no idea which one the original story was about, I just remembered that she had two of them and the younger one wasn't the black sheep.

Um, no. You didn't read what I said. I said, "Your narrative is simply a lie you were told or something you imagined." My statement is true. Otherwise, please do show me some kind of link showing where Madonna supported any one of her siblings in an extravagant lifestyle, let alone paid off gambling debts, etc. Doesn't it kind of chill you that you expended the energy to write a long post, calling "BS" on how Anthony (or Martin, or any family member, for that matter) wasn't someone whose sister was a "sugar momma" enabling an extravagant and wasteful lifestyle when the whole thing: the "sugar momma" characterization, the debts being "paid off" all came out of whole cloth?
 

galeteia

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Imdanny|1319613081|3047793 said:
Galateia|1319612259|3047792 said:
Woah there. Foggy memory yes, but accusing me of outright lying is going a little too far.

I prefaced this post by stating it's something I read (btw in a print magazine no less) 15 years ago. It was not from a google search. I admitted I was foggy on the details, but I remember even back then there was scandal going on in regards to her brother. That's all I was saying.

I came back later to add (hence the Edit) that I had remembered something from her documentary movie, but promised to google to clarify. I did find the info about her brother, but I didn't realize she had more than two. That's why I corrected myself and posted the correction that I was confusing Martin with Anthony. I have no idea which one the original story was about, I just remembered that she had two of them and the younger one wasn't the black sheep.

Um, no. You didn't read what I said. I said, "Your narrative is simply a lie you were told or something you imagined." My statement is true. Otherwise, please do show me some kind of link showing where Madonna supported any one of her siblings in an extravagant lifestyle, let alone paid off gambling debts, etc. Doesn't it kind of chill you that you expended the energy to write a long post, calling "BS" on how Anthony (or Martin, or any family member, for that matter) wasn't someone whose sister was a "sugar momma" enabling an extravagant and wasteful lifestyle when the whole thing: the "sugar momma" characterization, the debts being "paid off" all came out of whole cloth?

Thank you for clarifying, I read it in a different tone so I appreciate the elaboration. ::)

Perhaps the story was a lie or as one-sided as the original newstory appears to be. Scandal sells news, that's nothing new. The story wasn't purely imagined or made up of 'whole cloth', it was based on my admittedly fuzzy recollection of the details of what I have read. How is that any different than what we are reading now, except that it's an opposing viewpoint? I thought it was possibly for gambling debts because I remember it was about her bailing him out of financial messes and getting tired of him getting himself into them with the expectation she would get him out.

Since you asked if I am chilled by expending the energy gossiping about slanted stories about celebrities in the news, the answer is no. I don't hold celebrities on a pedestal, but I also think that 80% of the tabloid crap out there is just people looking for hits on their newstory and celebrities have made themselves an easy target by virtue of their career choice.

This story is not about the plight of the homeless, it's about OMG CAN YOU BELIEVE X CELEBRITY DID Y THING? SCANDAAAAL! ps read our sensational news story so we can get ad revenue!
 

Imdanny

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kenny|1319596634|3047687 said:
Nobody, rich or poor, famous or obscure, is responsible for adult family members.

Each of us is responsible for making our own way.

Kenny, people vary, as you often say. Some people are children, some are elderly, some are disabled, and some are sick. Everyone was a child at some point, everyone may be elderly, anyone can become disabled, and anyone can become sick. People who are children, elderly, disabled, or sick, or some combination of these, can not take care of themselves. We take care of those who can not take care of themselves in a civilized society. It's as simple as that.
 

partgypsy

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Imdanny|1319619290|3047817 said:
kenny|1319596634|3047687 said:
Nobody, rich or poor, famous or obscure, is responsible for adult family members.

Each of us is responsible for making our own way.

Kenny, people vary, as you often say. Some people are children, some are elderly, some are disabled, and some are sick. Everyone was a child at some point, everyone may be elderly, anyone can become disabled, and anyone can become sick. People who are children, elderly, disabled, or sick, or some combination of these, can not take care of themselves. We take care of those who can not take care of themselves in a civilized society. It's as simple as that.

like you said. But in the above example, it has not been shown Anthony Ciccone is a child, elderly, disabled or sick. Why should Madonna (or, since you are fixating on Madonna - anyone else in her family) be responsible for taking care of him? Just because they can? Again, if someone has a substance abuse or other addiction, simply paying their way is one of the worst things you can do for them. It's not even really doing them a favor to enable destructive behavior, and the fact that only now (at 55) he is complaining that his family has turned their back makes me think there is some history. Personally this often happens when the elderly parents can no longer handle the situation or dies.

And I think you are typecasting people who don't automatically agree with your assessment of what is going on. For my job I've worked with the homeless, I've volunteered for the homeless, heck some of my personal friends have been homeless.
 

bluebirrrd

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The point I appreciate in this thread is that funding spent on social services benefits not just the individuals who need the services, but their entire families and our communities as well. Housing the homeless and linking them with services keeps them off the streets where they are often a nuisance, keeps them out of the hospital where they cost exorbitant amounts, and decreases stress to their families who may have already depleted every option trying to assist or perhaps were unable to assist to begin with.

(and as a homeless service professional I just have to say that not all homeless people can be labeled by a stereotype)
 

Black Jade

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I don't think anybody on this thread said anything remotely like, It's all the fault of the homeless that they are homeless.
Homeless people vary very much from the mentally ill who will never get it together and should really be cared for in hospitals (as they used to be before it was decided to save money by letting them loose), to people with chronic alcoholism or drug abuse, which may or may not end up being addressed (let's face it, it's possible to recover from alcoholism, but many people don't, for whatever reason), to people who are poor for whatever reason, sometimes their fault, sometimes not--they really run the gamut. It's perfectly true that not enough is done for a lot of them--there are also others whom you can literally do nothing for, it's like pouring water into a sieve, they are that irresponsible/entitled/incapacited or whatever it is.

what I think a lot of people are saying is that they are withholding judgment on this thing until further information, because while it might be true that Madonna is being selfish and heartless, it might also be true that the problem is the brother and that she has tried to no avail. These things make good news stories when you are famous but famous or not, there could be a story with a lot of private pain here, where someone is at the end of their rope with a situation that they have tried and can't make a difference with. From the brief information we were given, there is jsut no way to know and I'd rather let it rest.

MOre pointful, I think, to go and do something for homeless in our communities. I need to be better about this. there are food kitchens to donate to and serve in, organizations that accept warm and knitted clothing, other organizations who teach lifeskills and help with job searches (harder in this economy but not impossible).
 

Black Jade

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Imdanny|1319551048|3047213 said:
part gypsy|1319550027|3047205 said:
I'm sorry about your brother. Though, I've been homeless and could never wish it on another human being.

.
You must have a story that breaks a lot of stereotypes to have been homeless and now be able to post on a diamond board as a buyer of diamonds. I don't like to ask about it, since you may prefer to be private about something so obviously painful I'm certainly glad you are not homeless anymore and I'm sorry that you went through that.

You really never know what people have been through. I knew a girl recently from a very wealthy family--I thought--fancy cars, beautiful home, very elegant mother and classy father--She's about 18 years old now. It turned out that the mother is a stepmother and that as a child (not very long ago) this girl lived with her own mother (now dead) not her wealthy father and ate out of dumpsters and if not homeless was the next thing to it. She is very sweet and does not seem scarred but does not take living a middle class life for granted at all.

Again, I don't know the whole story, and the father seems very nice, but I do wonder why it was that he so lost track of his children (there's a brother who is not nearly in as good a shape as she is) to that point, between the divorce and when his wife died so that he had to take the kids in again.
 
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