another marketing gimmick?

[tomatoe]

From lurking, posting and generally hanging around on PS, I''ve soaked up abit of knowledge when it comes to diamonds and I am appalled that this brand, Fuego, is being touted as A Cut Above the Rest.

This is what they say in their advert, "Featuring precisely aligned facets and optimum proportions, the Fuego® pavilion reveals perfectly symmetrical hearts when viewed from the bottom. Perfectly symmetrical arrowheads radiate from the crown when viewed from the top.
Only the most perfectly fashioned ideal-cut diamonds will ever exhibit this symmetrical hearts and arrowheads pattern."

But to my untrained non-expert eye, the clefts are so obvious in all the hearts.

Would this be considered a True H&A among the PS crowd?

 

[strmrdr]

Looks like a decent h&a pattern to me.
Iv seen better and worse from the vendors around here sold as h&a.
My take on it is that they arent any more of a gimmick than any of the other branded h&a.

The brilliant rose from them on the other hand is a gimmick but its hard to say if its a good one or not.
Its kinda funny when companies are applying cuts that have been around for ages in other gemstones to diamonds, slapping a brand on them and calling it the greatest invention since faceted diamonds appeared.

Expect to see more and more of it as DeBeers pushes its clients/vendors/slaves to create and sell branded cuts.
Its just another way for them to try and lock out the compitition.

 

[starfire]

Hi strmrdr,

Granted it is true that, for "normal" brilliant cut diamonds, some retailers have found it necessary to use marketing gimmicks to differentiate themselves. It is also true that there is really no difference between 1 H&A brand and another - other than the use of price discounts.

However, this is not necessarily the case for special-cut diamonds.

The Gabrielle Diamond, developed by Gabi Tolkowsky, is one example of a special-cut diamond which stands out from the crowd without unnecessary gimmicks. With additional facets strategically placed in the crown and pavilion, the Gabrielle exhibits greater fire (light dispersion) and sparkle (scintillation) than any diamond placed side-by-side.

Without the need for various tools and scopes, one can clearly see the difference with one's naked eyes.

It seems to me that you live in Singapore, since you know of the Fuego and the Brilliant Rose (since they don't seem to be sold anywhere else under these brandnames). If so, I invite you to visit our Charlotte Atelier stores to take a closer look.

You will see for yourself that there is no need to resort to complicated tools to show you why the Gabrielle is so beautiful. It is obvious to the eye.

At the same time, the Spirit-Sun and the Context Diamonds (also available at Charlotte Atelier) is also clearly different from any other diamond in the market. In fact, both diamond cuts won design awards in Germany (the Context Diamond won the Highest Design Award in 1997 - the same award won by the Audi TT).

Designed by Berd Munsteiner - the world renowned gem-cutter - the Spirit-Sun and Context Diamonds are also truly unique diamond cuts, which are clear to the naked eye.

In fact, so unique is the Spirit-Sun Diamond that the new Bugatti Veyron supercar features 2 pieces of 1-carat Spirit-Sun diamonds in its dashboard (1 in odometer and 1 in speedometer). Please visit www.bugatti-diamonds.com for further information.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

Ngee Ann City #02-10A
Suntec City #01-065

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On 4/3/2004 4:32:18 AM strmrdr wrote:

Looks like a decent h&a pattern to me.
Iv seen better and worse from the vendors around here sold as h&a.
My take on it is that they arent any more of a gimmick than any of the other branded h&a.

The brilliant rose from them on the other hand is a gimmick but its hard to say if its a good one or not.
Its kinda funny when companies are applying cuts that have been around for ages in other gemstones to diamonds, slapping a brand on them and calling it the greatest invention since faceted diamonds appeared.

Expect to see more and more of it as DeBeers pushes its clients/vendors/slaves to create and sell branded cuts.
Its just another way for them to try and lock out the compitition.

----------------

 

[valeria101]

How many names can there be for "Harts and Arows" diamods ? As long as precise harts and arrows make the pride of the brand, it is just the same thing under another name, and, probably, price.
The parameters for H&A are already very tight: you may want to see for yourself if any variation within them is meaningful to you.

 

[starfire]

Hi valeria101,

I agree with you. So long as the brand shouts Hearts and Arrow, it means the same thing no matter what you call it. Frankly, the difference to the eye will be negligible, no matter the marketing hype.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan

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On 4/3/2004 7:43:08 AM valeria101 wrote:

How many names can there be for 'Harts and Arows' diamods ? As long as precise harts and arrows make the pride of the brand, it is just the same thing under another name, and, probably, price.
The parameters for H&A are already very tight: you may want to see for yourself if any variation within them is meaningful to you.

----------------

 

[starfire]

Hi Tomatoe,

Strictly speaking, if a brand is going to be a Hearts and Arrows diamond, how can it be calling itself "a Cut above the Rest"? It is illogical to use that statement, because this brand uses AGS 000 diamonds - just like other H&A brands.

Notice, however, that this brand was recently launched at a discount to consumers. By doing so, it has undermined its "Cut above the Rest" premise, which was never accurate to begin with.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

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On 4/3/2004 4:13:04 AM tomatoe wrote:

From lurking, posting and generally hanging around on PS, I've soaked up abit of knowledge when it comes to diamonds and I am appalled that this brand, Fuego, is being touted as A Cut Above the Rest.

This is what they say in their advert, 'Featuring precisely aligned facets and optimum proportions, the Fuego® pavilion reveals perfectly symmetrical hearts when viewed from the bottom. Perfectly symmetrical arrowheads radiate from the crown when viewed from the top.
Only the most perfectly fashioned ideal-cut diamonds will ever exhibit this symmetrical hearts and arrowheads pattern.'

But to my untrained non-expert eye, the clefts are so obvious in all the hearts.

Would this be considered a True H&A among the PS crowd?


----------------

 

[tomatoe]

Thanks for your insight Stephen! Heh, immense skepticism of the Spore diamond market was what lead me to the internet in the first place.

I would love to drop by one of the two shops that is under you but I presume that you wont be at either of them at any given time?

 

[Mara]

I wonder how this marketing statement infringes upon the 'A Cut Above' branded stone from WhiteFlash. I'm sure they've trademarked that name somehow?




There are so many H&A images out there. Thankfully Pscopers know what to look for so that they can look *past* the brand to see the real beauty of the stone in considering a purchase.

 

[niceice]

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On 4/3/2004 4:32:18 AM strmrdr wrote:

Looks like a decent h&a pattern to me.
----------------

Look again Dear Friend, it looks like a perfect computerized simulation with a whole lot of help from Adobe Photoshop, etc. to us

 

[valeria101]

Harts like harts... the arrows make the two species different. According to the Fuego website and this one, these images below are examples of perfection. Not the same, obviously.

With a 50% chance of beeing wrong, here's my guess: the Fuego standard indicates a stone with larger table (about60%), steeper pavilion (over 43.5 degrees) and crown (over 35 degrees) than the AGSO and PS-touted ideal standard. Light return may still look good and the stones get AGS1. For better or for worse... However, they use yet another version of H&A viewer... and advertise AGS0-s so the comparison below is not the best start.

 

[Shay37]

Mara, I thought that, too. However, I seem to remember from some law class that not all countries respect (honor) the U.S. patent and trademark laws. Somebody with more knowledge, please chime in on this. Just a rookie here.

Shay

 

[strmrdr]

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On 4/3/2004 12:17:11 PM niceice wrote:

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On 4/3/2004 4:32:18 AM strmrdr wrote:


Looks like a decent h&a pattern to me.

----------------

Look again Dear Friend, it looks like a perfect computerized simulation with a whole lot of help from Adobe Photoshop, etc. to us

----------------

Im not going to disagree with you because I suspect your right but that doesnt change that if I saw a diamond with that pattern that I would pass it up as non-h&a.
I know you would likely rate it as near h&a but using the standard
of h&a at pricescope it looks good to me.

 

[strmrdr]

Starfire,

I didn’t say that gimmick cuts were a bad thing some are awesome performers and/or unique looking some are just plain silly.
My dig was more at the marketing than anything else.
Do you disagree that a lot of them are just rehashed gemcuts that have been around for a long time being marketed as the next great thing in diamonds?

 

[strmrdr]

Val if you read past the hype on them they are standard round brilliant cut h&a diamonds.

The brilliant rose on the other hand from the same place is a gimmick cut.

 

[valeria101]

Hm... I hadn't seen this one! and can't remember the European name of the brand

That kind of pavilion is not exactly an original approach. Doesn't the Flanders have those extra-small pavilion facets? The cut is suposed to create more fire not more light reflection (white light return, as the Bscope says). Holding the stone and the Diamcalc could bring prove. Why on Earth would all round diamonds be cut the same? To each his own, I suppose.

 

[niceice]

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On 4/3/2004 12:42:00 PM strmrdr wrote:

Starfire,

Do you disagree that a lot of them are just rehashed gemcuts that have been around for a long time being marketed as the next great thing in diamonds?
----------------

We don't disagree at all, we keep seeing the same "new" cuts enter the market year after year, each time with a new name and the same hype about Bigger, Better, Best. Facet a diamond any way that you wish, the fact is that the angle of the dangle still controls most of the light return.

 

[strmrdr]

Look familar?
Plop a standard RB top on it and tada new gimmick cut :}
Farther searching will im fairly sure turn up an example of just that but Im not interested enough to bother.
Notice the date...

This is a poor image the cuts go all the way out on all of them but I think its good enough to prove my point.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

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On 4/3/2004 12:34:18 PM Shay37 wrote:

Mara, I thought that, too. However, I seem to remember from some law class that not all countries respect (honor) the U.S. patent and trademark laws. Somebody with more knowledge, please chime in on this. Just a rookie here.

Shay----------------

You are right Shay, and it would be the ultimate US imperialism to think that laws in the US should apply in Singapore any more than US businesses would need to respect the laws of Singapore.
If this company marketed directly into USA they would be at risk of charges for damages for every sale they made, or sale they stopped ACA.
Only if ACA has taken trademark protection in every country could they object.
US laws apply in the US

 

[Shay37]

Well said, Garry. Thank you for putting it in a better way than I could.

Shay

 

[starfire]

Strmrdr,

Thank you for your clarification.

I agree with your dig on the marketing aspect of some of these H&A brands however...

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

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On 4/3/2004 12:42:00 PM strmrdr wrote:

Starfire,

I didn’t say that gimmick cuts were a bad thing some are awesome performers and/or unique looking some are just plain silly.
My dig was more at the marketing than anything else.
Do you disagree that a lot of them are just rehashed gemcuts that have been around for a long time being marketed as the next great thing in diamonds?
----------------

 

[starfire]

Niceice,

You are right. There are lots of new cuts all the time, and many of them focus on more facets alone.

However, it is not necessarily the number of facets that is important. Far more important - you have rightly said - is the placement of facets, which controls light reflections.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

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On 4/3/2004 3:45:10 PM niceice wrote:

----------------

We don't disagree at all, we keep seeing the same 'new' cuts enter the market year after year, each time with a new name and the same hype about Bigger, Better, Best. Facet a diamond any way that you wish, the fact is that the angle of the dangle still controls most of the light return.
----------------

 

[starfire]

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On 4/3/2004 8:44:10 PM Cut Nut wrote:

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On 4/3/2004 12:34:18 PM Shay37 wrote:

Mara, I thought that, too. However, I seem to remember from some law class that not all countries respect (honor) the U.S. patent and trademark laws. Somebody with more knowledge, please chime in on this. Just a rookie here.

Shay----------------

You are right Shay, and it would be the ultimate US imperialism to think that laws in the US should apply in Singapore any more than US businesses would need to respect the laws of Singapore.
If this company marketed directly into USA they would be at risk of charges for damages for every sale they made, or sale they stopped ACA.
Only if ACA has taken trademark protection in every country could they object.
US laws apply in the US

----------------

Garry,

You are right. I do not think that ACA took trademark protection in Singapore.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

 

[tomatoe]

Thanks everyone for all your knowledgable replies!