Another lost soul looking for guidance re: Princess cuts

[mggabin]

Another lost soul looking for guidance re: Princess cuts

Would appreciate any input from the regulars and experts on PriceScope ... this board and site have provided an invaluable education as I have been ring shopping, and I just wanted to extend my thanks to all those whose posts I have read over the past couple of weeks.

My girlfriend has expressed a desire for square stones. I've been looking at princess cuts because the largest supply of square stones seems to be in princess cuts. She wants a 3 stone ring with side sapphires. We went ring browsing one day and she was concerned that the princess rings we saw did not have enough of the "wow" factor (i.e., fire and brilliance, or just plain "sparkle", as she put it), but she still prefers the square stone to a round brilliant (which, as I'm now well aware from reading the boards here, will have a bigger "wow" factor).

I'm convinced that I can find a nice princess cut which will be suitably sparkly, and I've seen about a dozen princess cut stones in person (I live in NYC, and a couple recently engaged friends gave me recommendations on 47th Street).

Here are the basic specs on the two "finalist" stones:

#1: G VS1 1.79ct Ex Polish, VG Symmetry, 70.9% depth, 82% table, Thn-Med, no culet, no fl. Not sure of exact dimensions but ratio was under 1.05. Priced 22% back from Rap.

#2: G VS2 1.73 Good Polish, Good Symmetry, 72.4% depth, 71% table, ExThn-Thk, no culet, no fl. 6.64x6.52x4.72 (1.018 ratio). Priced 15% back from Rap.

As #2 was a GIA cert, there were no details on crown height, but it looked pretty good (didn't seem to be too shallow or too deep; I guess it would fall as 2B or better on the AGA princess chart). The crown definitely looked deeper than #1.

Obviously the table on stone #2 is much better, and while I did not view the 2 stones side by side (different vendors) I remember #2 having more fire. #1 is priced a little better but it is a wash on the finished product (in fact, #2 may be a little cheaper on the end product).

#2's girdle is of concern (more the ExThn than the Thk). However, I did examine the stone (set in a temporary springclip type setting) with a loupe and the girdle seemed to be fairly even all the way around (although I did not see that small portion of the girdle that was under the prongs of the temporary setting (two prongs on each of two opposite sides of the stone, the corners did not seem to be thin)).

I have the following questions but would appreciate any input:

- What premium for good proportions / discount for the large table might be applied?

- What discount for the girdle on stone #2 might be applied?

- How concerned should I be about the girdle? According to what I could find here (topic "sarin report - girdle question", scroll down to last post), the difference between an extremely thin girdle and a thick girdle should be readily apparent, even to the untrained eye, in a loupe, but I could detect no such significant variation in my examination (unless it was hidden under one of the prongs of the temp setting). Should I be wary enough to keep looking?

Any answers to these questions or other input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Matt
New York, NY

 

[moremoremore]

Ok- from one princess freak to another!

.... #1 is just plain bad....it will be a flat glassy stone...You have a better chance of getting a WOW princess from #2. But the #s don't guarantee...they never do. Just make sure she actually likes princess stones! Could be you only saw some poor ones, or she might not like them. There are a lot of princess haters out there and they will say if you want a WOW stone, thr round is the only way to go....but that's not true. I LOVE princess stones and also, there are other options out there....Like the Queen of Hearts on GOG site, the flanders, etc....but those command a premium....are you willing to pay? If you are sure you want a princess...#2 is better. I don't LOVE it....but you saw it....did it WOW you? When I got my princess, I saw it and was just like WOW. I didn't need numbers, analysis, etc....just WOW. Did #2 wow you? B/c there are lots out there that could. Also, I won;'t deal with any jeweler who gives me that X% off Rap BS. Experts would know better but don't expect any discount for the X thin girdle. I would pass on an X thin girdle unless the stone otherwise WOWd me! #1 should be priced as a poorly cut stone. Hope you get more replies!!!

 

[moremoremore]

Just a stone to compare......
I've never dealt with Whiteflash (in fact, they clearly don't respond to emails about inquiries...at least that's the case with me)... but here is an interesting stone...

This is an EGL...but just showing so you can compare cut and price....you'd have to see any stone in person to know....Also, you are in NY....so am I....have you contacted GOG (also in NY in case you wanted to deal in person)...They can get stones listed on line and for a premium, you get full service and trade in...Just a thought....Also, DavidS jewelers is in NY. Diamonds by Lauren is in NY...

http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-646421.htm

 

[mggabin]

Thanks moremoremore for the replies. Neither jeweler was quoting me the price as "x% back", but since the two stones aren't otherwise exactly equal in clarity and carat, I assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that this was the best way to compare apples and oranges. Stone #2 (G VS2 1.73) is $140 more than stone #1 (G VS1 1.79).

Would also appreciate one or two opinions from one of the jewelers on the board, if they have a spare minute. Thanks again.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Of the 2 stones you have presented, #2 appears to be the better candidate. The table is way to big on #1. You wanna keep the table and depth at less than 70-72%. Don't go too shallow so the diamond doesn't have a washed out look. You can evaluate the quality of the make on the diamonds by visiting www.gemappraisers.com. There are Cut Charts available there and AGA has a DIY system. Just enter the specs and the DIY will rate the cut for you. Then you can check Price Stats to see if you are being offered a fair price.

Living in NYC, you can make an appointment to visit SuperbCert. Or hop out to Long Island and visit Good Old Gold. If you're up for a day trip, you can run down to visit Dirt Cheap Diamonds. All 3 Vendors keep priness cuts on hand. Diamonds that have been professionally evaluated for quality and performance. All 3 Vendors have websites too.

www.superbcert.com

www.goodoldgold.com

www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com Signature Selection

You might also check out the White Flash Expert Selection inventory.

www.whiteflash.com

If you see something you like, give them a call. Be sure to mention Price Scope. PS Members get a 5% discount off the list price of diamonds.

At the very least, if you are going to be looking in person, you might want to pick up an Ideal Scope and practice with it. Then you can evaluate diamonds you are viewing for light return. There's a link at the top of the page.

Also, beware of pricing based on "a % off Rap". The Rapaport Report is like the Cut Charts. The Rap Report is a set of guidelines only. Each diamond is unique, with individual characteristics that figure into determining the price. It's a rather complex process. Much more than just looking at a row and a column on the page.

 

[mrsstone]

Princess cuts can WOW you if you know the secret to them. I do not normally participate in these discussings since I sell diamonds. I sell on ebay under the user name msstone if you have further questions. A cutter I know ( for over 23 years) who cuts the most fabulous radiants and princess cuts told me the secret to princess cuts and radiants that will knock your socks off.

It is in the crown height. Most princess cuts that are sold in the U.S. have big problems... too deep, too big of table, and too flat. As I call them flat as a pancake. Your crown height is the most important factor in a Dazzling princess or radiant. AGA has revised his parameters from 9% to 9% to 12%. I still disagree with him. I will not consider selling one of my customers a 9% crown height. If they want an ideal cut princess, I usually look for 11% to 13% crown height range sometimes if all other factors are right I will go to 14% or down to 10%. YOU want WOOOW!! You want blinds you in the sunlight with dazzle. This is what your princess and radiant needs. Some of the other factors don't matter as much in princess cuts as they do in round ideals. I know which cutters cut the nicest princess and which don't. Most don't.

Princess have some other problems like the corners break off. I often recommend a radiant because of the cut corners it will not have these problems. If you want a square cut. There are also a few other speciallity cuts that are square and ideal but they are very expensive. Of course if you want the very best it costs more. My engagement ring had a radiant in it.