(another) insurance and appraisal question--PLEASE help!

[lover in athens]

Hi everyone, and thanks in advance for any advice you might have for me...
I just got engaged last week and am LOVING my gorgeous new ring. But now it''s DEFINITELY (past) time to insure the ring. DF did NOT have it appraised when the stone was loose. We both have USAA home owners insurance. I''m assuming they will cover the ring, but does it need to be appraised first? DF thinks we can send the GIA report and the price he paid and get it added on to home owners. Does anyone have any experience with this? If we DO need to get it appraised, is there anyone you would recommend in the So. Arizona area??

Thanks again!

 

[Regular Guy]

Congrats to you!

My research into USAA suggests your fiance is correct, and that the receipt of purchase will suffice to establish a coverage amount. Also, I think it's a well regarded insurer. Unless your purchase information also came with good descriptive info, however, a detailed appraisal will probably insure you get as good as you lost, if you loose it, regardless of the established price. On the utility here, up top right under resources, where the first drop down is appraisers, I see three for Arizona, with things written about each to recommend either of the two listed organizations.

Regards,

 

[lover in athens]

wow...thanks for the quick response!! i will call USAA in the AM, and see what they suggest also.
How much do you think that you lose by appraising the diamond once it''s already set??
This website is SUCH a great resource!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/2/2006 10:04:02 PM
Author: lover in athens

How much do you think that you lose by appraising the diamond once it''s already set??

Presumably not a dime in value...although...probably some precision with respect to a "nailed down" description, so the appraiser may include some variances they might not otherwise include. I would call the 3 appraisers listed (unless only one fits for location) and review their thoughts on this. Two carry the OGI, which is probably nice, but may be unavailable if the diamond is set, where the other mentions carrying the Idealscope...less expensive, for sure, but more available to a set stone.

 

[RockDoc]

Since you made the purchase a while ago, the valuations may not be up to date, particularly if it is a larger stone, and you bought it before the metal prices started increasing drastically.

Rockdoc

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/3/2006 2:42:28 PM
Author: RockDoc
Since you made the purchase a while ago, the valuations may not be up to date, particularly if it is a larger stone, and you bought it before the metal prices started increasing drastically.

Rockdoc

Rock,

Since the USAA customer follow''s USAA''s instructions by providing the sales receipt, what are you implying, or outright saying, are the necessary consequences of the valuations being out of date?

 

[lover in athens]

Date: 7/3/2006 2:42:28 PM
Author: RockDoc
Since you made the purchase a while ago, the valuations may not be up to date, particularly if it is a larger stone, and you bought it before the metal prices started increasing drastically.

Rockdoc

thankfully the purchase was just made a couple weeks ago, so hopefully shouldn''t be a problem!!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 7/3/2006 2:56:29 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 7/3/2006 2:42:28 PM
Author: RockDoc
Since you made the purchase a while ago, the valuations may not be up to date, particularly if it is a larger stone, and you bought it before the metal prices started increasing drastically.

Rockdoc

Rock,

Since the USAA customer follow''s USAA''s instructions by providing the sales receipt, what are you implying, or outright saying, are the necessary consequences of the valuations being out of date?

USAA is a replacement type insurance policy, and they don''t pay more than what the item is insured for.

People who purchased items, about a year ago or longer, may not have enough coverage to replace their item, should they have a loss. Diamond prices are higher than they were. Metal prices in the last 8 months have increased dramatically.

If a consumer bought an item over a year ago, and insured it for what they paid on the internet, they should probably check with the seller or appraiser to see if the insured amount is updated to reflect the increases in costs.

A sort of simple way to do this, DIY is to take the diamond you bought and see what it comparable stones are selling for by Prcescoping them now. IF there is a big difference, then maybe they need an update to make sure there is sufficent coverage.

Just something to consider.

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 7/3/2006 4:37:32 PM
Author: lover in athens

Date: 7/3/2006 2:42:28 PM
Author: RockDoc
Since you made the purchase a while ago, the valuations may not be up to date, particularly if it is a larger stone, and you bought it before the metal prices started increasing drastically.

Rockdoc

thankfully the purchase was just made a couple weeks ago, so hopefully shouldn''t be a problem!!

Nope, shouldn''t be an issue.... that is recent enough for the values to be current.

In the initial posting you said a while ago. So I didn''t think the purchase was that recent.

Rockdoc

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/4/2006 1:36:51 AM
Author: RockDoc

USAA is a replacement type insurance policy, and they don''t pay more than what the item is insured for.

People who purchased items, about a year ago or longer, may not have enough coverage to replace their item, should they have a loss. Diamond prices are higher than they were. Metal prices in the last 8 months have increased dramatically.

Though I''m not in this business, I question this, and would question USAA on this, if I was working with them. When shopping for insurance, though I did go with Nationwide, and they did ask for an appraisal valuation from an appraiser (apparently trusting more a valuation from a generic appraiser more than a receipt from a generic store), in contrast, the rep from USAA said in a pointed way that a receipt is just fine, and in the way he said this, I took him to mean that they, in contrast, would rather trust the price established by a vendor as the price at which they would part with the stone as a perfectly valid cost basis upon which to set a cost basis for them to replace a "like" stone, rather than requiring an appraisal, which -- in my experience, and on average -- will inflate the cost of the stone, almost regardless of its purchase price, by some percent.

It may be all in the numbers, of course, deflating any argument of substance here. But I don''t think so. USAA is only available to service members, or those closely associated with the armed forces. Importantly, USAA requires no intermediarry to authenticate a value. Also, to say that they won''t pay more than what the item is insured for has at least a confused meaning, because they certainly, as a business serving the trade, can pay prices below what a consumer pays anyway. Issues of branded diamond shopping may confuse this legitimately, and has been discussed here previously...but to the extent that a diamond can be described more or less sufficiently by its named qualities, independently of brand, I think the buyer is OK.

Significantly, USAA specifically names a receipt as valid and sufficient for establishing a price for their services, for which -- as has been reviewed here -- the intention is to replace like kind. Taking them at their word, I doubt that market price increases will invalidate their claim, and should this condition put their ability to replace like kind at risk, they are certainly able to build inflationary increases into their pricing structure to protect themselves.

Querries to USAA may or may not clarify this. Since I''m just a fly on the wall, here, I''m choosing to bother readers here with my conjecture, rather than an actual agent of theirs. Also, it''s possible asking questions just a certain kind of way will change the substance of their answers, I''ll bet. Until informed better, this is what I''m thinking is the case.

 

[denverappraiser]

Most insurance companies will accept a receipt if it contains sufficient details to actually replace the piece. I absolutely agree with Ira that a recent receipt from an arms length transaction involving that very piece is a wonderful indicator of value. The problem is that most store receipts don’t contain the required information (In my opinion most appraisals don’t either but that’s a different matter for a different thread) and the sales people at the insurance offices have learned that it works better to ask for an appraisal than to send them back to the store where they bought it to ask for a more detailed receipt. When I was doing retail, the store issued a document titled ‘Jewelry Documentation’ for things that were sold there. It gave a full appraisal type description, clearly stated we had sold it and when, and listed the transaction price as the value while omitting things like the customers credit card number that would appear on the receipt but that had no bearing on the insurance relationship. We issued hundreds of these things and never once had one rejected by an insurance company.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 7/4/2006 7:05:38 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Most insurance companies will accept a receipt if it contains sufficient details to actually replace the piece. I absolutely agree with Ira that a recent receipt from an arms length transaction involving that very piece is a wonderful indicator of value. The problem is that most store receipts don’t contain the required information (In my opinion most appraisals don’t either but that’s a different matter for a different thread) and the sales people at the insurance offices have learned that it works better to ask for an appraisal than to send them back to the store where they bought it to ask for a more detailed receipt. When I was doing retail, the store issued a document titled ‘Jewelry Documentation’ for things that were sold there. It gave a full appraisal type description, clearly stated we had sold it and when, and listed the transaction price as the value while omitting things like the customers credit card number that would appear on the receipt but that had no bearing on the insurance relationship. We issued hundreds of these things and never once had one rejected by an insurance company.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Hi Neil,

The "Jewelry Documentation" document that you mentioned is what retailers should be issuing instead of" in house inflated feel good appraisals" that serve no useful purpose. What a novel idea to actually list the "transaction price."

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[RockDoc]

The "Jewelry Documentation" document that you mentioned is what retailers should be issuing instead of" in house inflated feel good appraisals" that serve no useful purpose. What a novel idea to actually list the "transaction price."

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com


Novel?

Most insurance policies require it. The requirement as written is a bit veiled, but the insured has a responsibilty to inform the company if there is a difference from the price paid, and the insured amount relevant to informing the insurance company of material risk, particularly when the purchase was made at or about the same time as the purchase.

IMHO nothing novel about this.

Rockdoc

 

[Modified Brilliant]

RockDoc,

"Novel idea" was meant in a "tongue-in-cheek" way. Unfortunately, this did not translate well on -line. Hope this clears things up! Have a great day RockDoc.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com