Another emerald question

[colorluvr]

I have read through recent threads on emeralds, but my questions weren't answered - so here we go.

What would be a reasonable cost for a very high end - possible oil treatment - but nothing else, for a .5ct emerald (oval facet cut)?

I'm talking really good cut, clarity and color.

I went into my local (high end - family owned) jewelry store to pick up a pendant they worked on for me and proceeded to check out all of their pretty gemstone settings (as I always do). One of the designers that they sell is Spark Creations:
http://www.sparkcreations.com/

Spark jewelry is very well made and I love almost everything of theirs that I have seen, however almost all of it is way out of my price range. A good share of the stuff that this store carries is one of a kind, however, I forgot to ask if this ring I'm considering is one of a kind or not (not that it matter).

Anyway, this ring really caught my eye because the emerald is so spectacular, even though it's not very big. The ring itself is smaller than I usually wear (a split shank with pave diamonds), but it looked good on my hand and it's probably as big of an emerald of this quality/color that I will be able to afford that is already set in a very high quality setting.

The owner dropped the price of the ring enough that I am truly tempted (they have layaway of course) but I really don't know how much of the price is because of the quality of the emerald and how much of the price is the workmanship of the ring which is excellent.

I'm almost positive I couldn't get an emerald of this quality AND have a ring of this quality made for the price they gave me for this ring, BUT, it's not a cheap ring and money spent on this ring, is money NOT spent on a larger emerald.

TIA for your advice - BTW, I checked Josh's website and he doesn't have any loose emeralds this small for me to get a ballpark price.

 

[T L]

I've seen sparkcreations designs (my jeweler sells them too), but in all honesty, I would never buy an already set emerald of significant value. It would have to have an AGL prestige report with it if already set.

A super fine half carat emerald of top color and clarity with faint to minor oil treatment would be around $2K. Some emerald dealers might chime in and correct me, but that's what I've seen for that size and color. Until you've seen a top quality emerald in person, it's also impossible to judge what top quality looks like. Some average emeralds look fabulous, until you've seen a top Muzo.

 

[colorluvr]

Thanks TL. That ballpark price gives me an idea of how much of the ring is emerald and how much is setting, however I'm not sure what you consider "of significant value" in a stone that size - are your referring to the $2000 estimate you gave?

I've seen some incredible emeralds, but as I said, they were all soooo out of my budget I never really considered getting one. I'd love a link to a top of the line Muzo in that size so I could compare, but I can't find one.

 

[T L]

Thanks TL. That ballpark price gives me an idea of how much of the ring is emerald and how much is setting, however I'm not sure what you consider "of significant value" in a stone that size - are your referring to the $2000 estimate you gave?

I've seen some incredible emeralds, but as I said, they were all soooo out of my budget I never really considered getting one. I'd love a link to a top of the line Muzo in that size so I could compare, but I can't find one.

When I mean significant value, I guess that means anything you feel is significant value to you. I feel $2K is significant value to me, but you may differ in opinion.

 

[colorluvr]

When I mean significant value, I guess that means anything you feel is significant value to you. I feel $2K is significant value to me, but you may differ in opinion.

Oh it's VERY significant to me, I just wasn't sure if that is what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[chrono]

It’s not going to be easy to find an oval as most top coloured emeralds are cut as a step cut for a variety of reasons:
1. The rough lends itself to a limited number of shapes.
2. The finest emeralds are very often quite included so it’s best to avoid too much faceting
3. The purpose of faceting an emerald is to bring out the colour, not sparkle and the emerald step cut is best suited.

If you are looking for a really good cut, clarity and colour, with minimal to no treatment, even though it’s only 0.5 ct, it will cost you probably several thousand dollars. Any idea if the emerald you looked at is Colombian and untreated?

 

[LD]

The problem with your question is that there are too many variables. For example, when TL talks about top quality, she means TOP quality and are you likely to find that in a local jewellers? I'm not sure. Perhaps. I don't know enough about Sparkcreations to know how the gemstones look IRL. Unfortunately you only have to look at Tiffanys to know that just because something has a high price tag it doesn't mean you'll get quality.

Also, do you know if the jewellers can provide a lab report indicating treatment? If not, then paying top quality prices would make me stop in my tracks to reconsider.

Having said all of that, you've spoken of your love for the ring and in some instances, it''s more important to get something that you truly love rather than worry too much over all the things that serious gemstone collectors might! At the end of the day if the price is right, you don't feel you're being ripped off and you love the ring, pull the trigger and buy it!

 

[colorluvr]

The problem with your question is that there are too many variables. For example, when TL talks about top quality, she means TOP quality and are you likely to find that in a local jewellers? I'm not sure.

Actually, even though I live on the outskirts of the city's zipcode and we just rent, the town itself has the highest average income in the entire state - a large portion of it's residents are extemely wealthy with multi-million dollar homes around the lake and along the river and the small downtown area consists of some very exclusive shops. This local jewelry store is on it's fourth generation and the owner personally flies to Antwerp a couple of times a year to buy many of their diamonds, so yes, actually they have some very high end jewelry and gemstones. I don't think a jewelry store could survive in the downtown area if it wasn't high end.

I would love to find a "middle of the road" jewelry store near me to get some of my repair work done, but the next closest thing are mall chain stores that are in another town a few miles away.

I'm not saying this proves anything, but it's certainly not a mom and pop, one step above mall store type of place, like a lot of "local jewelry stores" in some cities where I have lived.

I don't believe it has an indendent report, but I do believe they are going to have the independent GIA appraiser that they use look at it today. I realize that is nothing the same as a lab report, but it's better than nothing.

If not, then paying top quality prices would make me stop in my tracks to reconsider.

which is why I was asking for a ball park price because I've never seriously considered an emerald ring and I truly had no clue as to what a high quality emerald should go for.

Thanks again for all of your input.

 

[colorluvr]

It’s not going to be easy to find an oval as most top coloured emeralds are cut as a step cut for a variety of reasons:
1. The rough lends itself to a limited number of shapes.
2. The finest emeralds are very often quite included so it’s best to avoid too much faceting
3. The purpose of faceting an emerald is to bring out the colour, not sparkle and the emerald step cut is best suited.

If you are looking for a really good cut, clarity and colour, with minimal to no treatment, even though it’s only 0.5 ct, it will cost you probably several thousand dollars. Any idea if the emerald you looked at is Colombian and untreated?

It is supposed to be Columbian and no treatment except perhaps oil.

 

[LD]

Please be aware that even high end jewellers with high price tag jewellery - irrespective of their location - does not mean you are guaranteed quality. It simply means high prices are guaranteed! Surprising but unfortunately true. Even though your jewellery store owner flies to Antwerp to buy diamonds it doesn't mean anything. Buying coloured gemstones and diamonds are two different animals.

Assumptions by a jeweller or GIA appraiser about locality and treatment are just that. Assumptions and not worth anything. Trust but verify. If the jeweller can't provide a lab report then make the sale conditional upon one and if the stone comes back as treated to within an inch of its life, you should expect your money back and the cost of the lab report - since the jeweller has sold something that it's not.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[T L]

[ don't believe it has an indendent report, but I do believe they are going to have the independent GIA appraiser that they use look at it today. I realize that is nothing the same as a lab report, but it's better than nothing.

Actually, there are some pretty incompetent appraisers out there, regardless of the GIA diploma they've earned. I would only trust someone that I know has a good reputation on evaluating emeralds. A lab report would be key, as the appraiser can make a very costly mistake on your part. The appraiser also has a conflict of interest there since you mention the jeweler uses him. I would prefer having it looked at by someone I would use.

 

[T L]

Please be aware that even high end jewellers with high price tag jewellery - irrespective of their location - does not mean you are guaranteed quality. It simply means high prices are guaranteed!

Isn't that the truth!

 

[colorluvr]

Please be aware that even high end jewellers with high price tag jewellery - irrespective of their location - does not mean you are guaranteed quality. It simply means high prices are guaranteed!

Isn't that the truth!

I totally agree, but in this case, I think it is more the reputation of Sparkcreations than the jewelry store itself that is key. The store owner does not claim to be an expert in colored stones. Her expertise is definitely in diamonds, and she freely admits that, which is why most of their colored stones are in "lines of jewelry" like Spark, as opposed to their own creations as are many of their diamond rings.

I just mentioned the location and the fact that she can afford to fly to Antwerp to source their diamonds to establish the fact that they "can possibly afford" to carry truly high quality jewelry, as opposed to an average "locally owned store" that would not be able to afford to hold it in inventory, let alone have customers that could afford it, because the store itself was called into question.

I completely understand that an AGL or GIA lab report is the only way that I could be positive that the stone is what it is purported to be. My initial question about estimated cost of a high end stone of that size was to first establish if the ring was reasonably priced "assuming" that the stone and workmanship are of the highest quality, which would then establish "approximately" what percent of the cost may be attributed to the stone and what percent would be the setting.

If I use TL's $2000 estimate for a nice .5ct stone, then I at least have a place to start and I can decide if I even want to pursue it further. I can find similar settings from well respected designers to establish a "reasonable" cost for the setting alone, but I was clueless as to the cost of a nice emerald because I have never priced them, which was the reason for the question in the first place.

Thank you again for your responses...

 

[LD]

Just to give you options, if you're not averse to buying a loose stone, have you spoken with Josh? I know that he's been incredibly helpful to others when they've been looking for Emeralds and he gives his advice on this board freely. I'm pretty sure he would be able to source a great stone for you. I've never bought from him but I know others have.

In case you haven't seen it, here's a recent thread you may find interesting: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/will-4k-buy-me-a-nice-colombian-emerald.154767/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/will-4k-buy-me-a-nice-colombian-emerald.154767/[/URL]

 

[colorluvr]

Just to give you options, if you're not averse to buying a loose stone

I'm not adverse to it at all, in fact I have way too many that need a good home , it's just that this ring caught my eye, and one thing let to another.

 

[chrono]

Colorluvr,
My favourite local jeweller who sells high end stuff also flies to Antwerp to buy diamonds regularly but sells mediocre coloured and yet the most expensive coloured gemstones. I only go there to get my gems set because their benchpeople are skilled and know how to set various coloured gemstones. They also carry some branded designer name jewellery and frankly, I am not impressed with the quality of stones, especially for the asking price. The other concern is with the appraiser who will be reviewing the emerald for you – not all GIA appraisers are equally skilled and many tend to specialize in diamonds, rather than coloured gemstones. Is the appraiser also truly independent or is he “hired” by the jewellery store, which then presents a conflict of interest?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

I'd say 2K is a good rough number for something in that range. The challenge is going to be finding something that small that is only oiled. Most emeralds nowadays are treated with more durable materials and some retailers will just state it's oiled as a generalization for treatment.

Chrono's right, there are not a lot of oval shaped emeralds for very good reasons. They exist, but that cut shape doesn't sell an emerald as well as a step cut. Emeralds are not bright sparkly gems. They are soft, satiny, and glowing gems.

Unfortunately, a link to a Muzo emerald won't help you get an idea of what they look like. High quality emeralds look inaccurate to terrible in photographs as compared to reality. The only way to see one is to see one is in person. I cannot name vendors to look at, but there's a very famous billionaire gem collector who purchased a very expensive fancy vivid pink diamond recently. He loves gems and the emeralds he has are what you should look at. That's about the only place I've seen that quality on the street. Chrono, LD, or TL might know a place that has them in person too, they know what they're talking about The price of a high quality Muzo emerald wouldn't be expensive, it would make your heart stop and have you gasping for air. You can easily spend more on a 2 carat emerald than a 2 carat D/IF diamond.

Lastly on appraisers, I agree with everyone, be very very careful. GIA appraisers are great for diamonds, but you need someone who specializes in and has been in the emerald market for some time. I had a client who was sent to me who used a PS appraiser that told him the emerald he bought online from someone else was junk. That appraiser was incorrect, and just didn't have the background in emeralds.

--Joshua

 

[iLander]

Andrew has come really nice emeralds, and $2K will get you over 8 carats with him.

Remember the pics are magnified and you probably won't see most of the inclusions in RL

http://www.gemfix.com/emerald.html

 

[chrono]

iLander,
Any idea what the enhancement “E” on Gemfix means? Also from my personal experience, the more horrible the emerald looks in the picture, the finer they are in person. The crystal and lighter toned emeralds photograph very well but the medium dark richly saturated emeralds end up looking like unattractive dark blobs.

 

[T L]

Josh alluded to Laurence Graff (the billionaire who bought the big pink diamond), so if you are near his store in any of the major metropolitan cities, you can go look. The Smithsonian is a good place to look at fine emeralds as well. I was at the Field Museum and their gem collection had mediocre emeralds in my estimation. I have also seen fine emeralds at higher end antique and gem shows. I tried on an antique five carat emerald in a ring at a large antique show, and it was $250,000. This was 15 years ago. It did suck all the air out of my lungs as Josh said it would.

 

[colorluvr]

I think I should have been more clear somewhere along the line. I wasn't (and still am not) actively looking for an emerald or an emerald ring. The emeralds that I have seen that I really really like have always been out of my price range until I saw this ring.

I like the ring and I love the look of the emerald, but had no idea if the lower offered price was a good one (if the stone is in fact what it's supposed to be). Sparkcreations are never inexpensive. They have some gorgeous pieces, but up until she lowered the price of this ring (more than $1000) I've never seriously considered purchasing their jewelry. It's just out of my price range unless I sold most of my gemstone rings and purchased just one. The first ring of theirs that I saw that I fell for was a sapphire/diamond ring that was over $12,000, which started me inquiring about this particular line of jewelry because I had never heard of them before.

I've been in this store many times over the past year and a half and watched their inventory for gemstone rings - some of their less-expensive "non-Spark" settings have been there for over a year, but most of the Sparkcreations pieces don't last nearly that long.

If I were to venture a guess, I would guess that this ring hasn't sold at the asking price because it is actually a very small setting for the original tagged price and their customers that spend a lot on jewelry would probably go for one of the more spectacular pieces, while those who are more in the "under $5000 buyer range" would probably buy one of the larger pieces from less expensive lines because visually, you seem to get more bang for the buck if you know what I mean. This ring seems to sit in that "in between" place dollar wise.

They have never offered me this much of a discount from the asking price on any of the other Spark settings so I think they just want to move this "less expensive" piece and replace it with one that might sell more quickly. Like everyone in a "luxury" line of business, they aren't selling as much as they did a few years ago.

If the stone is as advertised, the ring is probably a decent deal, but I'll most likely pass on the ring because I truly don't think it's worth it to me (on this particular piece) to spend hundreds of dollars on a lab report to prove that this particular stone is as advertised and yet I'm not ready to spend $3000+ on a ring without that assurance.

Thanks again for your continued comments. You have all been very informative with your input.

 

[T L]

Without knowing anything about how the center stone is treated, and it's quality, if you love the ring, and the price is a fair price for the setting, than go for it. However, if you are seriously wanting a decent emerald (not necessarily top quality), I would skip it as you should really buy them loose or with an accompanying lab report. Just my opinion, but I hope it adds some perspective.

 

[colorluvr]

Without knowing anything about how the center stone is treated, and it's quality, if you love the ring, and the price is a fair price for the setting, than go for it. However, if you are seriously wanting a decent emerald (not necessarily top quality), I would skip it as you should really buy them loose or with an accompanying lab report. Just my opinion, but I hope it adds some perspective.

I do appreciate your (and everyone's) opinion. One of the reasons I don't currently have any emerald jewelry (as of yet) is because I could never afford the ones I liked.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Something you could do, if interested, is to train yourself to identify good emeralds and their treatment. Emeralds cannot hide their treatment so it's pretty easy to find out an emerald's quality by looking closely with a loupe, even if it's mounted in a ring. Ron Ringsrud has a great book that teaches the ins and outs. So if you find a ring you adore, a stone that looks beautiful, and no grading report, you'll know if it's worth it or not.;')

--Joshua

 

[T L]

Hi Josh,
I think Ronald's book is out of print now. You can only find it second hand for exhorbitant prices. Please let me know if otherwise. I'm glad I bought it when I did, and yes, the amount of emerald treatment can be more easily identified than other gems with treatment.

 

[Cabochon1]

Hi Tourmaline_lover,

I am not Joshua but saw the book on Ronald Ringsrud's website. Order price is 80 USD for the standard edition.

He also has some nice emerald photographs on his website. Even if they might not do the stones justice...


Cabochon

 

[T L]

Hi Tourmaline_lover,

I am not Joshua but saw the book on Ronald Ringsrud's website. Order price is 80 USD for the standard edition.

He also has some nice emerald photographs on his website. Even if they might not do the stones justice...


Cabochon

Thank you Cabochon. Perhaps you can buy it from Ronald directly. I know that Amazon and Barnes&Noble had it and now it states that it's no longer in print on those sites. It's a pity because for the longest time, B&N had it for $60, which is where I bought it. Free S&H too.

The book is chock full of everything an emerald lover would want, and tons of photos too. I have three books on emeralds, and this one blows the other two out of the water. I highly recommend it for any one interested in emeralds, or just for anyone who loves studying gemology.

 

[Cabochon1]

iLander,
Any idea what the enhancement “E” on Gemfix means? Also from my personal experience, the more horrible the emerald looks in the picture, the finer they are in person. The crystal and lighter toned emeralds photograph very well but the medium dark richly saturated emeralds end up looking like unattractive dark blobs.

I clicked around on their site a bit. And E stands for enhanced and covers all possible typical enhancements for emeralds

btw: On Ron Ringsrud's site crystal stands not for light toned emerald but he speaks about "rare, fine, saturated green crystals" as the best type of colombian emerald. I think referring to the clarity not the color.

cabochon

 

[LD]

I like the ring and I love the look of the emerald, but had no idea if the lower offered price was a good one (if the stone is in fact what it's supposed to be).

The problem is that without (a) seeing the stone and (b) knowing for definite the treatment/treatment level it's virtually impossible to help. The issue for most of us when answering you is that the Vendor isn't specific about the treatments and as Joshua says most jewellers will just say "oiled" when in actual fact it may be significantly more than that.

I have an oval Emerald. I picked this up very cheaply from somebody who was selling off their collection. It's not great. It's "supposed" to be Colombian and is probably treated to within an inch of its life. I got it because it was an oval and I hadn't seen one before. It's pretty but definitely not high quality (although it does look better IRL than in this photo).

If you are worried about treatments or that the Emerald isn't what it might be as sold then pass it by. If you love it (and I think you do) then buy it. If you went to the store tomorrow and it was gone how would you feel? If you would be desperately disappointed then it means you should be buying it.

Here's my oval so you can see what a not great stone looks like!

 

[chrono]

Thank you, Cabochon. I clicked around but could not find any information on what “E” stood for. It’s a pity that Gemfix’s enhancement declaration isn’t more specific. It would be great to know if it was oiled or resin filled (and if so, what type of resin), including the level of treatment. Knowing this information will allow a prospective buyer to decide if that’s the right stone for him/her.