Another Confused Engagement Ring Shopper Requests Help

[wall90518]

I luckily stumbled across this site today and sure could use you all''s help with picking out a round brilliant ring. I''ve been going back and forth with internet sites and Reed''s to try and find the perfect one. Initially, here are the specs I''m looking for: 1.0-1.05cts, F-G, VS2-SI2, GIA or AGS certified, and the best cut possible in my price range (under $4K). After negotiating with Reed''s (bringing in better deals from the internet), this is what they''re offering:

Measurements: 6.44 - 6.48 x 4.01 mm
Weight: 1.01cts
Total Depth: 62.1%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Cutlet: Pointed
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Clarity: SI2
Color: F
Fluorescence: Negligible
Crown Angle: 34.8
Pavilion Angle: 41.2

With the attached white gold ring and all taxes, the price is $4,700. Some of the rings I''ve found online are cheaper but I''m worried when they say "ideal cut" it''s not completely honest and how difficult it will be to find a setting that I like as well for a good price (under $250). Also, Reed''s has the lifetime warranty. And most of the online sites do not list the crown and pavillion angles so it''s hard to evaluate it at pricescope.

As you can tell, I have a million questions. If anyone knows of a better ring or can let me know if I can nix the Reed''s deal and find something just as good or better for less, I would be extremely appreciative. Thanks!

John

 

[Nicrez]

Well according to the Cut advisor it's Very good, but NOT IDEAL!




https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp




It scored a 3.4 Very good, if the price is right....




From WhiteFlash.com Ideals here's a 1.0 I SI1 at $3,842


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-586226.htm




An E SI1 for $4,180


http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-508772.htm




a 1.17 J SI1 for $4,225


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-553269.htm




These are just the first few...I think we even get a discount as PriceScope members...I don't remember, do ask! Seriously, you CAN get a better stone!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Hi, John....welcome to PS!




The stone you mentioned does fit AGS0 proportions......but it's not the best cut because it's on the upper end of both crown and pavilion angle....the steep/deep combination.




It scores a 3.4 on HCA (which is worth buying if the price is right).....but you could drop your color a bit and get a much nicer cut stone that would appear just as white (because the cut would make it more "sparkly").




This stone is a great example: 1.00, I, SI1 for $3842


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-586226.htm#


Has a GREAT idealscope image and great proportions. Also, this price is before the PS discount.

 

[Giangi]

I am sure it's a nice looking stone, but you can surely get better looking AGS0-Ideals. I would keep the pavilion angle at 41' max, with crown in the 34.x' range.
There are a few other important points: is this SI 2 eye-clean? I don't get one thing... You say it has Ex/Ex pol-sym and Negligible fluo. Now AGS uses 'negligible' so I assume you have an AGS report. But if the stone has ex/ex and not id/id it's technically an AGS1.

 

[wall90518]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses!! A few additional questions for the helpful experts:

1) So having a color of I instead of F or G is acceptable and will not affect the appearance of the diamond? I guess I've always thought that I needed to get a F or G to really get a quality diamond for her (as well as getting a great cut of course).

2) What is the pricescope discount, and would I get it for being a member of this message board or is there a fee to become a member?

3) Where should I look to find a white gold band for the ring? Whiteflash? I need one around $250 or less that is cathedral and tapers off towards the stone (as you can probably tell, she told her best friend what she'd want "just in case" I ever went looking)

4) How are you getting the crown and pavillion angles to show up on the Whiteflash site? I've done a few searches and can't seem to get them to show it?

5) Do these places have any kind of warranty? What do you all do as far as insurance in case it gets damaged, lost, stolen, etc? What about cleanings?

I'm already thrilled to have found you all, and I appreciate so much the help you've given...thanks!!!

 

[wall90518]

----------------
On 3/10/2004 12:45:13 PM Giangi wrote:

I am sure it's a nice looking stone, but you can surely get better looking AGS0-Ideals. I would keep the pavilion angle at 41' max, with crown in the 34.x' range.
There are a few other important points: is this SI 2 eye-clean? I don't get one thing... You say it has Ex/Ex pol-sym and Negligible fluo. Now AGS uses 'negligible' so I assume you have an AGS report. But if the stone has ex/ex and not id/id it's technically an AGS1.

----------------

Yeah, I've thought about that too. The guy at Reed's gave me the Diamond Quality Report, but not the Diamond Quality Document (I learned about these after getting home to research it). He tells me it's ideal, but you're right, it technically would be a 1, wouldn't it?

 

[aljdewey]

-John - my responses in blue:

So having a color of I instead of F or G is acceptable and will not affect the appearance of the diamond? I guess I've always thought that I needed to get a F or G to really get a quality diamond for her (as well as getting a great cut of course).

For most people, an I diamond will face up PLENTY white. The reason most folks lean to F or G is because they view stones at the mall that aren't as well cut, so they start to see color below F or G. Well-cut stones masks color better. I have an H and it's WHITE...and several here have bought I color stones and put them in white metal with wonderful results.

2) What is the pricescope discount, and would I get it for being a member of this message board or is there a fee to become a member?

You don't have to be a "member"; just mention to WF what your budget is and ask them for their best price on the stone.

3) Where should I look to find a white gold band for the ring....Whiteflash? I need one around $250 or less that is cathedral and tapers off towards the stone

The WF site has a few of these, I think, but if you find a setting somewhere else, you can always ship it to WF and they'll set your diamond for you.

4) How are you getting the crown and pavillion angles to show up on the Whiteflash site? I've done a few searches and can't seem to get them to show it?

Crown/pavilion angles are already furnished on the superideals (A Cut Above stones) and on the "expert selection" stones. That's where this I stone appears - in the expert selection.

5) Do these places have any kind of warranty? What do you all do as far as insurance in case it gets damaged, lost, stolen, etc? What about cleanings?

They have fantastic warranties. WF has a 10-day money-back guarantee. They also offer lifetime trade-up (spend at least $1 more and you get full trade value on your stone providing it's not damaged) and a whole host of other reassurances.

Regarding insurance.....have it set at WF (either their setting or one you ship to them). They will have it shipped (fully insured) to you. Once you get it, call your insurance provider and add it to your insurance.

ANY jeweler these days will clean your rings if you bring them in....you don't have to buy locally to get that done. I've had local jewelers clean my jewelry for years.....even before I had an engagement ring. The best thing you can do is clean it yourself regularly with alcohol and a soft toothbrush - keeps the grease/crud off!
----------------

 

[pqcollectibles]

Martin Fuller is a PS Approved Appraiser. Very reputable. Several people have used him and commented on his services in the Forum.

www.martinfullerassociates.com

 

[Nicrez]

Good luck! I have to say, even though I have never worked with either of the ladies, I KNOW they know their stones, and I have implicit trust in anyone who knows what they sell, and imparts that to the buyer. I went to see a few jewelers at lunch and they were so full of it...AND the cost more.

The one guy we liked was a guy who was SO honest, he mentioned that one ring my friend loved wasn't that great of quality, that he would give her a discount and pointed out a better cut stone. He said that if it was his choice, he would get neither...He rathered that he lose a sale than lie about his stones. She changed her mind and chose something he has in-store, and she walked out saying, tomorrow I am going to buy that ring from THAT man! That was trust. She didn't even care if he might be pricier or not. plus he had the best craftsmanship we saw!

Customer service goes a long long way sometimes...Glad to hear they treated you well, and you'll get a really well cut stone for a good price! YAY!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Great work, John. That's a good price for both stone and ring!




I bought my stone from Whiteflash, too, so I can vouch for how great they are to deal with. I felt that Leslie, Denise and Brian went the extra mile to find the right stone for me, and their follow-through was top-rate!

 

[wall90518]

Aljdewey, Nicrez, and all,

Hello again everyone. I'm still waiting to hear back from Denise at Whiteflash about the new crop of diamonds that just came in, but while I'm pondering this diamond:

1.00, I, SI1 for $3842, 2.1 on Holloway Cut Advisor
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-586226.htm#

...I was wondering if you all thought this diamond:

0.94, E, SI2 for $3575, 0.8 on Holloway Cut Advisor
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-548789.htm#

...was a better deal? It seems so from the Cut Advisor, but there has to be a catch. It doesn't appear to look as good under the IdealScope. The color is awesome, but I'm also wondering how much of a differnce the 0.06 cts will make on the size...I think I remember reading that a well cut diamond can make the stone look 10% greater than its actual size, putting this one at 1.03 cts in appearance. Is there any truth to this?

If you all get a chance, please take a look at both of these diamonds and let me know which one you think is the better deal.

Thanks again for everyone's help so far!!

John

 

[pqcollectibles]

The I will have a visibly larger appearance. I like the IS of the I better too.

 

[caratgirl]

----------------
On 3/15/2004 7:31:09 PM wall90518 wrote:

...I think I remember reading that a well cut diamond can make the stone look 10% greater than its actual size, putting this one at 1.03 cts in appearance. Is there any truth to this?

----------------

Well...I wouldn't quite put it like that. If you compare a badly (deep and smaller mm dimension) cut diamond with a well cut diamond that has the proper millimeter dimensions, that may be true. However, keep in mind that some badly cut (shallow) diamonds will appear larger than their ideal counterparts due to their larger mm spread.

Many consumers on this forum have stated that if you have two diamonds with the same mm spread and one is an ideal cut, then the ideally cut one will appear larger due to the edge to edge light return. Well, that is really just true when you are comparing an average cut to an ideal cut stone. Otherwise, unless you are an expert, the two will look very comparable.

As far as your two stones go, which do you prefer, a slightly larger size or an eye-popping white shade? Truly a preference.

 

[aljdewey]

I honestly think either diamond will perform beautifully from the idealscope images, so if budget is a concern, then perhaps you should run with the E.




If budget weren't a concern, though, I personally would select the I. I think the idealscope is a bit cleaner, better polish/symm, and .25 mm more in size.




When I tried on rings, I found that 6.0 to 6.2 mm looked average on me, but 6.4mm-6.5mm got the "wow" factor for me. Seems like a small difference, I know, but it really was quite the difference.




Frankly, I think your best bet is to ask Brian. HE is the one with the expert eyes, and he has both stones in his paws. He can evaluate them next to one another and tell you which one HE thinks is the better buy. Believe me, he won't steer you wrong. He did this for me, too, and actually recommended the less expensive stone---and he was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. (So glad I listened!).

 

[pqcollectibles]

AL's got that right! Brian Gavin is da Man!!! He got me into a bigger diamond for less money as well. Brian has a fantastic eye and he will honestly describe the diamond to you. Brian also listens to you and won't recommend a diamond he knows is not right for you based on what you tell him.

 

[wall90518]

Nicrez, Aljdewey, caratgirl, pqcollectibles, and all,

Ok, so I think I've got my final ring, although I'm a little hesitant because the price is a little higher than I wanted to go...I wanted to get one final opinion from you all before I decide whether to pull the trigger tomorrow. I talked to Brian from Whiteflash today and this is the one he recommended from the several I picked out.

Round Ideal Cut
1.04cts
I
SI1
Holloway Cut Advisor Score: 1.0
Depth: 60.3
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 34.6
Pavilion Angle: 40.7
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Very Strong Blue
Measurements: 6.57-6.60x3.97

My biggest concern with the diamond is the very strong blue fluorescence. Brian actually pulled the diamond out and looked at it and said that the blue helped the stone face up white even better. I've heard that can happen with stones in the I-J range. So what do you all think? It's going to be between probably $4300-$4500 for the stone and the white gold band...good deal?

Thanks for everyone's help!

John

 

[valeria101]

Fluorescence is a special choice... I would like it, 'cause I like to think I am a gem freak, but I also think inclusions are beautiful to look at and that it is a shame to cut those crystals to pieces instead of collecting then rough. So....

How about that E SI2? It is easy to see what the weight variation does to size: size is the diameter of the stone and clearly listed.

And the $4100 offer? That one sounded right in the first instance... at least from what your posts reads like.

 

[wall90518]

Brian specifically ranked the E SI2 last of the ones we were looking at. Seeing it through the ideal scope, it did lose a lot of light around the edges (even though it scored so well on the Holloway), and it was rather small (0.94cts).

Any more thoughts?

John

 

[Nicrez]

John, I highly considered florescence in stones I was looking at for several reasons. One is the economy of saving money for a bigger or better cut stone. Two, it DOES make the stones face up white, especially at those border colors where yellow tinges can be seen, and if it will be in white gold. And the only time you can REALLY see the florescence is when you hold it under UV lighting, like at a gemologist. Third, I was never planning on reselling this diamond I bought for sentimental value. Florescence makes the resale of a stone tricky, as if selling a stone second hand isn't tricky enough. Also, note that 1/3 of all stones mined have florescence.




With that in mind, if those can apply to you as well, I think it's a great deal. Plus I am a lover of diamonds, and the sheer fact that it has florescence is interesting to test out in all lighting and study a bit!!

Back in the early 1900's stones with bluish/white appearances where very coveted!

 

[fire&ice]

Thought I would chime in. I can not speak about this specific stone or the *very* strong blue. But, I have a large I colored stone w/ med (cert)/strong blue (appraiser) and it really makes a difference in the face up whiteness of the stone. I offer a different perpective. I would *never* buy a stone *without* blue fluor for myself.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

Hey, John:




Well, I have to say that I like the numbers better on the I fluor stone than any of the others.......the 40.7 pavilion angle REALLY hits the sweet spot for performance. In fact, my stone has the 34.6 crown and 40.7 pavilion.




As far as the very strong blue....I think it's REALLY going help the I color, and as long as Brian's telling you it's not oily or milky looking, then you're safe. In fact, many folks find that they PREFER stones with fluor.




Brian is a fifth-generation diamond cutter - and his eye is dead on. If he's telling you this is the best of the stones, then it really is.




And yes, this is a good price range. The stone is 1.04 ct and it's *top* shelf cut quality.




This is a gorgeous choice......CONGRATS! Remember that pictures are REQUIRED! hehehehee

 

[pqcollectibles]

Brian Gavin has a great eye and really knows his diamonds. I went with his recommendation, even tho it took me outa my comfort zone, and it paid off big time. Blue Flour will brighten that I color. Coupled with the great cut, you'll need sunglasses to fend off the marvelous flashes sparks and fire. Take a look at the diamond for yourself, or have an appraiser evaluate it. If you aren't pleased, your only out a little in shipping fees to know for sure. If you are pleased, you got a great stone.