And then there were 3...
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jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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IS on the first two are both good. The third is most likely fine--the numbers are in a very safe range.
My question for you is which one would be mind-clean? Buy the one you feel the most comfortable with and don''t look back. Each one has something different going for it and all are well cut stones.
My question for you is which one would be mind-clean? Buy the one you feel the most comfortable with and don''t look back. Each one has something different going for it and all are well cut stones.
I''m leaning towards #3. Not thrilled up the crystal on the table though. It''s a vs2 though so I would assume it is eye clean...not sure how a crystal impacts the stone.
#1 is an si but inclusions are towards the outside. Very good symmetry oppsed to excellent on 1. Will it make a difference?
Jet, why aren''t you working at the jewelry store, you have been a great help!
#1 is an si but inclusions are towards the outside. Very good symmetry oppsed to excellent on 1. Will it make a difference?
Jet, why aren''t you working at the jewelry store, you have been a great help!
jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 8/7/2009 4:58:19 PM
Author: SalanG
I'm leaning towards #3. Not thrilled up the crystal on the table though. It's a vs2 though so I would assume it is eye clean...not sure how a crystal impacts the stone. Ask the vendor about eye-clean, but you are right, VS2 should be. A crystal is usually a tiny diamond that got trapped in a larger one. It is nothing to worry about.
#1 is an si but inclusions are towards the outside. Very good symmetry oppsed to excellent on 1. Will it make a difference? Nah, the naked eye can't tell the difference between VG and EX in either polish or symmetry
Jet, why aren't you working at the jewelry store, you have been a great help! Cuz then I would have to try and sell stuff, instead of actually helping.I'd rather work for the benefit of consumers. Thanks for the compliment.
jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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Crystals can be black. Those are spots of carbon that didn't get quite enough pressure and heat to convert them completely to diamond. Still nothing to worry about if they are eye clean. With the picture being squished, I can't make out on the clarity plot where the crystal(s) are supposed to be in the diamond to see if they are clear or black. It looked like the certificate possibly showed several crystals, but is hard to make out.
Any chance of you posting a better picture and certificate or providing a link to the diamond? If it is not on hold and you don't want to have it poached, I fully understand. At VS2 clarity, I wouldn't worry about inclusions.
so you got two Hs and a G, whats the carat weight on the third? they all look very good like Jet said, its a toughy
ETA: never mind, I think I see it as a 1.02 carat on the third.
and you can't view these in person now can you? sent to an appraiser and select one?
ETTA: I think I might have to choose the third #3 one if you can't see IRL because the symmetry is excellent on the third one vs the the 1st and the second one has fluoro - (which I'm not against) but I personally don't want fluoro
ETA: never mind, I think I see it as a 1.02 carat on the third.
and you can't view these in person now can you? sent to an appraiser and select one?
ETTA: I think I might have to choose the third #3 one if you can't see IRL because the symmetry is excellent on the third one vs the the 1st and the second one has fluoro - (which I'm not against) but I personally don't want fluoro
jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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No PM''s on Pricescope.
I would just ask the gemologist at the vendor to evaluate the third diamond if you are interested. They will give you an honest report. I really doubt there is anything to worry about with a VS2 grade--by definition that grade means the inclusions in the diamond were difficult for a trained grader to find under 10x magnification. If they were large enough to see more easily or cause a problem, the diamond would have received a lower clarity grade.
I would just ask the gemologist at the vendor to evaluate the third diamond if you are interested. They will give you an honest report. I really doubt there is anything to worry about with a VS2 grade--by definition that grade means the inclusions in the diamond were difficult for a trained grader to find under 10x magnification. If they were large enough to see more easily or cause a problem, the diamond would have received a lower clarity grade.
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I think I''ve looked at every diamond online, lol. The g/f is starting to get ticked off cause I''ve been sneaking off with the lap top at hours at a time 
I like the first diamond. Good HCA score, eye clean, not thrilled with the color H in white gold but you''ve all assured me it will be fine. At $4750 I feel like I can do better. I would love to find another eye clean, maybe g with excellent symmetry but James Allen seems to have no reports and photos for the ones in my price range. I''ve already asked them for a report (the vs2) and ideal scopes (the other two). I don''t want to keep requesting stuff if they aren''t going to meet my eye clean and high hca score standards.
I think I may wait a few weeks and see if things get better. I risk losing a diamond I like but there will be others. Diamond International may be th next stop.
I like the first diamond. Good HCA score, eye clean, not thrilled with the color H in white gold but you''ve all assured me it will be fine. At $4750 I feel like I can do better. I would love to find another eye clean, maybe g with excellent symmetry but James Allen seems to have no reports and photos for the ones in my price range. I''ve already asked them for a report (the vs2) and ideal scopes (the other two). I don''t want to keep requesting stuff if they aren''t going to meet my eye clean and high hca score standards.
I think I may wait a few weeks and see if things get better. I risk losing a diamond I like but there will be others. Diamond International may be th next stop.
jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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I''ll eat my cyber-hat if you''re able to see that crystal IRL at actual size. Put a ruler on your monitor and look at how small 6.5mm actually is, relative to these photos.
All are good candidates. I always think a reflector image is helpful, so would like to see IS for #3, but the mag image looks nice. If the cut consistency is good those proportions are more of a Tolkowsky-target which I personally like.
#2 is cut in a range you''ll frequently see at Tiffany & Co. Very attractive too. It has a 6.19mm avg girdle, so there''s a little bit of weight hiding in the depth (not typical at T&Co)... If it was only 62.2% D it would receive GIA EX with those same proportions, but it would be a few points less in weight - or have greater spread.
If this was all the info I was provided for the three stones and was told to make a buy or be punched in the arm really hard I''d go with #3. But I generally like to have all of the (geeky) info.
jet2ks
Ideal_Rock
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ARRRGH!
Not trying to bash, but you should know that the owner/author of that website was posting on PS a couple months back throwing his opinions around as "fact" and "truth" until called on it by several prosumers, cutters and vendors, and has since left (though for all I know he still reads threads here). Reading a couple of pages on his website, it appears he now has a bone to pick with Pricescope as a result. The website really ought to be named "One Person's Opinions About Diamonds". I'm not going to insult anyone and say that I have near the experience in the diamond industry that he does, but I will freely state that anything offered up is only my educated opinion with the intent to help a fellow consumer, not the one and only "Truth" by someone who is using a website to earn money by recommending certain diamonds.
VS2 clarity is very, very rarely not eye clean. From GIA's website, "Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10x" So at ten times magnification, it still takes a trained grader some time and effort to find the inclusions while looking expressly for them, so the odds of anyone seeing those spots is nil--they will be looking at how well the diamond sparkles, not trying to find flaws. ALL diamonds have inclusions, even those rated Flawless or Internally Flawless, it is just what level of magnification is necessary to pick them out.
Re-read John Pollard's post above. If you don't know his background, he is a professional who works for Infinity diamonds. If a pro who works in the trade is telling you that they don't believe the inclusions in a competitor's diamond aren't going to be visible, what does that say? The vendor above has a great return policy, so if you did buy the diamond and don't like it, you can send it back with no problems. (And John will eat his cyber-hat
)
I think what you are fighting now is "mind-clean" issues. What I mean is that you have looked at so many diamonds at high magnification while hunting for the best possible stone for your girl that your perspective is distorted. Been there, done that. I passed up a number of great stones because of the same exact concerns and experiences you are having. Once I got over that issue, purchasing the diamond was much easier.
Keep in mind the actual size of the stone. I'd really suggest taking a break from PS, go to several jewelers and look at diamonds in this size range to get re-oriented. See how many inclusions you can spot in GIA and AGS graded VS2 and SI1 diamonds. Then come back and decide what stone would be best for you to purchase so that you will be comfortable and secure in your decision.
Best of luck to you. I know it can seem frustrating, but it will all be worth it when she says "YES".
Not trying to bash, but you should know that the owner/author of that website was posting on PS a couple months back throwing his opinions around as "fact" and "truth" until called on it by several prosumers, cutters and vendors, and has since left (though for all I know he still reads threads here). Reading a couple of pages on his website, it appears he now has a bone to pick with Pricescope as a result. The website really ought to be named "One Person's Opinions About Diamonds". I'm not going to insult anyone and say that I have near the experience in the diamond industry that he does, but I will freely state that anything offered up is only my educated opinion with the intent to help a fellow consumer, not the one and only "Truth" by someone who is using a website to earn money by recommending certain diamonds.
VS2 clarity is very, very rarely not eye clean. From GIA's website, "Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10x" So at ten times magnification, it still takes a trained grader some time and effort to find the inclusions while looking expressly for them, so the odds of anyone seeing those spots is nil--they will be looking at how well the diamond sparkles, not trying to find flaws. ALL diamonds have inclusions, even those rated Flawless or Internally Flawless, it is just what level of magnification is necessary to pick them out.
Re-read John Pollard's post above. If you don't know his background, he is a professional who works for Infinity diamonds. If a pro who works in the trade is telling you that they don't believe the inclusions in a competitor's diamond aren't going to be visible, what does that say? The vendor above has a great return policy, so if you did buy the diamond and don't like it, you can send it back with no problems. (And John will eat his cyber-hat
I think what you are fighting now is "mind-clean" issues. What I mean is that you have looked at so many diamonds at high magnification while hunting for the best possible stone for your girl that your perspective is distorted. Been there, done that. I passed up a number of great stones because of the same exact concerns and experiences you are having. Once I got over that issue, purchasing the diamond was much easier.
Keep in mind the actual size of the stone. I'd really suggest taking a break from PS, go to several jewelers and look at diamonds in this size range to get re-oriented. See how many inclusions you can spot in GIA and AGS graded VS2 and SI1 diamonds. Then come back and decide what stone would be best for you to purchase so that you will be comfortable and secure in your decision.
Best of luck to you. I know it can seem frustrating, but it will all be worth it when she says "YES".
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Did I say there was 3? I''m such a liar!
I''ve continued my search this morning, I''m only going to do this once so I night as well get it right. I found a couple F colors from a nonmajor online vendor that frequents this site, that seem like they can make a run to the top of my list:
The first is a 1.03ct, SI1, ex/ex, very good cut...but wait there''s more...if it was an AGS it would be an ideal cut...scored a 1-1.5 on HCA, I don''t have it in front of me. It comes in a tad over $5000 so a tad over the budget but it may be worth it...
The other is a .97, SI1, vg polish, ex sym, ideal cut, scored .5-1.5 on HCA (don''t have full stats in front of me)...this is just a tad under my max budget.
I have contacted the vendor to determine if they are eye clean. From the looks of the site they may be a drop shipper
James Allen has been great but I can''t find an F, ideal HCA, above or near a carat, for below $5,500 before the pricescope discount. They can provide me with detailed picture, ideal scope, etc. I don''t know much about this vendor but reading here I know they are reputable. They don''t have the largest selection on the site so I''m not going to give the name because I don''t want the stone plucked.
I saw the post by 123mph on the front page and now I''m both nervous and anxious. Hopefully I will be posting my pics on here soon!
I''ve continued my search this morning, I''m only going to do this once so I night as well get it right. I found a couple F colors from a nonmajor online vendor that frequents this site, that seem like they can make a run to the top of my list:
The first is a 1.03ct, SI1, ex/ex, very good cut...but wait there''s more...if it was an AGS it would be an ideal cut...scored a 1-1.5 on HCA, I don''t have it in front of me. It comes in a tad over $5000 so a tad over the budget but it may be worth it...
The other is a .97, SI1, vg polish, ex sym, ideal cut, scored .5-1.5 on HCA (don''t have full stats in front of me)...this is just a tad under my max budget.
I have contacted the vendor to determine if they are eye clean. From the looks of the site they may be a drop shipper
James Allen has been great but I can''t find an F, ideal HCA, above or near a carat, for below $5,500 before the pricescope discount. They can provide me with detailed picture, ideal scope, etc. I don''t know much about this vendor but reading here I know they are reputable. They don''t have the largest selection on the site so I''m not going to give the name because I don''t want the stone plucked.
I saw the post by 123mph on the front page and now I''m both nervous and anxious. Hopefully I will be posting my pics on here soon!
L
Lula
Guest
Oh, SalanG, I have soooooo been where you're at right now, and it's no fun! You really need to take the advice of Jet and Stone and take a break from this!
Step away from your computer; go look at some diamonds in local stores; breathe deep....
I think you're making a mistake not choosing the #3 stone from JA above -- it looks great, and JA has a wonderful return policy, so if in real life it's not up to your standards, you simply send it back.
I very much respect Jet, Stone, John Pollard, Ellen and Lorelei, and the others who have given you advice. They gave me EXCELLENT advice when I was looking for a stone.
They have nothing to gain from your diamond transaction except the knowledge that they helped someone find a beautiful diamond within his/her budget.
Please take a break from the searching; consider ordering the JA stone and viewing it in person, and trust the experience of the people who have given you help here.
There is so much available online that you will go crazy looking and searching for too much longer!
ETA: John Pollard, and others here, gave me the advice that the minute differences between well-cut stones is NOT discernable to the naked eye, and it's very easy to get hung up on tiny, tiny differences in angles, clarity, color, etc., that you and your gf will never be able to see in real life!
Step away from your computer; go look at some diamonds in local stores; breathe deep....
I think you're making a mistake not choosing the #3 stone from JA above -- it looks great, and JA has a wonderful return policy, so if in real life it's not up to your standards, you simply send it back.
I very much respect Jet, Stone, John Pollard, Ellen and Lorelei, and the others who have given you advice. They gave me EXCELLENT advice when I was looking for a stone.
They have nothing to gain from your diamond transaction except the knowledge that they helped someone find a beautiful diamond within his/her budget.
Please take a break from the searching; consider ordering the JA stone and viewing it in person, and trust the experience of the people who have given you help here.
There is so much available online that you will go crazy looking and searching for too much longer!
ETA: John Pollard, and others here, gave me the advice that the minute differences between well-cut stones is NOT discernable to the naked eye, and it's very easy to get hung up on tiny, tiny differences in angles, clarity, color, etc., that you and your gf will never be able to see in real life!
Sarap,
you have the same name as my gf, I almost jumped out of my seat when I saw the name as the last reply.
I woke up this morning thinking I was going to buy #3 but I figured I''d to one last search. If they are all eye clean, wouldn''t the f color be the most logical choice. I looked in the store hear and there for months. I can''t keep the JA stones held forever so I think the decision really needs to be made ASAP. Diamond shopping makes car shopping seem like a picnic!
you have the same name as my gf, I almost jumped out of my seat when I saw the name as the last reply.
I woke up this morning thinking I was going to buy #3 but I figured I''d to one last search. If they are all eye clean, wouldn''t the f color be the most logical choice. I looked in the store hear and there for months. I can''t keep the JA stones held forever so I think the decision really needs to be made ASAP. Diamond shopping makes car shopping seem like a picnic!
L
Lula
Guest
Hi, Salan,
Sorry my name gave you a scare!
I think you're having a struggle with "mind clean" issues, which I also understand very well!
When I started my search for a diamond, I spent a lot of time on JA's site looking for the "perfect" stone. I didn't really know what I was doing (like all newbies here) and I got hung up on color and clarity, because that's what the diamond companies market -- it's not a good diamond unless it's colorless and flawless!
Well, that thinking really limited my selection.
I ordered a beautiful AGS0 D VS2 .45 stone from James Allen, thinking I would love it because the color was so high and the clarity so good.
I got the stone -- it was incredibly beautiful, but in real life, the D was too bright-white for my eyes. I found that I preferred a larger carat weight, too. The VS2 is a great clarity grade for me -- I can't see a thing, even under a 10X loupe, my jeweler had to point out the inclusions.
I returned the stone, because the D color wasn't for me (we all have preferences) and the H-I-J stones I'd seen in Pricescope posts looked great to me.
James Allen was wonderful to work with. No problems with the return. I would buy from them again.
I decided to switch to a branded cut, because I got so caught up in the numbers that I couldn't focus on the beauty of the stones! One advantage in going with a branded cut in a RB (Crafted by Infinity -- which I have; but also Hearts on Fire; Brian Gavin; ACA by Whiteflash are other brands) is that someone else does the work for you to ensure that the cut is top-notch. I just don't know enough to sort through tons of online listings. That's why the input you get from the posters here is so valuable -- they've been doing this for years!
So I ordered a J VS2 .53 AGS0 from Wink. It was also a killer stone. Just gorgeous. The J color was beautiful set in platinum. Only rarely did I see a golden tint to the stone (very rarely and only under specific lighting conditions).
So think about this, SalanG, I went from a D to a J, and could not tell the difference in 99% of lighting conditions!
Many people on PS have stones in the G-H-I range that are set in white gold/platinum. You'd have to be very color sensitive (and maybe you are) to tell the difference between an H and an F, IMHO, especially when the stone is set.
But, wait, there's more! I now own an M SI2 1.0 Crafted by Infinity stone! Why? Well, it's an Infinity, so the cut is gorgeous, but I have realized during my short time on PS that I prefer warmer color stones (not everyone is like this, but there are more of us than you'd think out there!)
And my SI2 is eye clean! Yes, I can see one inclusion under a 10X loupe, but in a way it's kind of cool, because it's my stone's birthmark and individual identifier, and I can't see it at all with my eye!
Going down in color and clarity allowed me to get a 1.0 carat stone that is an AGS0 branded cut for a price I could afford.
It's very common for newbies to get hung up on color and clarity because no one wants to buy a stone that looks dirty or included. So we tend to look at (and pay for) colors and clarities that are way more safe than we need to be.
I honestly think you will be just fine with an H VS2. Combined with a wonderful cut, you will have a stone that is white, bright, and clear to your (and your girlfriend's) eye.
I like the proportions on #3, and it is a carat in weight, right?
Remember, you can order it and if it does not meet your expectations, you can send it back. I would just hate to see you lose the stone to someone else because you took it off hold!
Sorry my name gave you a scare!
I think you're having a struggle with "mind clean" issues, which I also understand very well!
When I started my search for a diamond, I spent a lot of time on JA's site looking for the "perfect" stone. I didn't really know what I was doing (like all newbies here) and I got hung up on color and clarity, because that's what the diamond companies market -- it's not a good diamond unless it's colorless and flawless!
Well, that thinking really limited my selection.
I ordered a beautiful AGS0 D VS2 .45 stone from James Allen, thinking I would love it because the color was so high and the clarity so good.
I got the stone -- it was incredibly beautiful, but in real life, the D was too bright-white for my eyes. I found that I preferred a larger carat weight, too. The VS2 is a great clarity grade for me -- I can't see a thing, even under a 10X loupe, my jeweler had to point out the inclusions.
I returned the stone, because the D color wasn't for me (we all have preferences) and the H-I-J stones I'd seen in Pricescope posts looked great to me.
James Allen was wonderful to work with. No problems with the return. I would buy from them again.
I decided to switch to a branded cut, because I got so caught up in the numbers that I couldn't focus on the beauty of the stones! One advantage in going with a branded cut in a RB (Crafted by Infinity -- which I have; but also Hearts on Fire; Brian Gavin; ACA by Whiteflash are other brands) is that someone else does the work for you to ensure that the cut is top-notch. I just don't know enough to sort through tons of online listings. That's why the input you get from the posters here is so valuable -- they've been doing this for years!
So I ordered a J VS2 .53 AGS0 from Wink. It was also a killer stone. Just gorgeous. The J color was beautiful set in platinum. Only rarely did I see a golden tint to the stone (very rarely and only under specific lighting conditions).
So think about this, SalanG, I went from a D to a J, and could not tell the difference in 99% of lighting conditions!
Many people on PS have stones in the G-H-I range that are set in white gold/platinum. You'd have to be very color sensitive (and maybe you are) to tell the difference between an H and an F, IMHO, especially when the stone is set.
But, wait, there's more! I now own an M SI2 1.0 Crafted by Infinity stone! Why? Well, it's an Infinity, so the cut is gorgeous, but I have realized during my short time on PS that I prefer warmer color stones (not everyone is like this, but there are more of us than you'd think out there!)
And my SI2 is eye clean! Yes, I can see one inclusion under a 10X loupe, but in a way it's kind of cool, because it's my stone's birthmark and individual identifier, and I can't see it at all with my eye!
Going down in color and clarity allowed me to get a 1.0 carat stone that is an AGS0 branded cut for a price I could afford.
It's very common for newbies to get hung up on color and clarity because no one wants to buy a stone that looks dirty or included. So we tend to look at (and pay for) colors and clarities that are way more safe than we need to be.
I honestly think you will be just fine with an H VS2. Combined with a wonderful cut, you will have a stone that is white, bright, and clear to your (and your girlfriend's) eye.
I like the proportions on #3, and it is a carat in weight, right?
Remember, you can order it and if it does not meet your expectations, you can send it back. I would just hate to see you lose the stone to someone else because you took it off hold!
Thanks for the words of encouragement Sara! Also thanks to everyone else who helped me narrow down to the final 100 stones! I may be a newbie but I only want to do this once! Just got all the emails about eye clean, both vendors said all stones are eye clean...
F/si1/1.03/$4,900
F/si1/.97$4,750
G/si1/1.00/$4,500
H/vs2/1.02/$4,500
this includes all discount codes etc, vendors ensure they are eye clean, all score somewhere between .5 and 1.6 on HCA...
Going to throw up now from all the stress...
J/k
sort of...
F/si1/1.03/$4,900
F/si1/.97$4,750
G/si1/1.00/$4,500
H/vs2/1.02/$4,500
this includes all discount codes etc, vendors ensure they are eye clean, all score somewhere between .5 and 1.6 on HCA...
Going to throw up now from all the stress...
J/k
sort of...
L
Lula
Guest
You''re welcome! It''s nerve-wracking, isn''t it? And I was buying a stone for myself (my husband hates shopping and doesn''t understand jewelry); I can''t imagine how stressful it would be to buy a diamond ring for someone else!
But you''ve done your homework; you''ve narrowed it down to a few good choices. Your hard work will pay off! (And you won''t be a newbie anymore!).
But you''ve done your homework; you''ve narrowed it down to a few good choices. Your hard work will pay off! (And you won''t be a newbie anymore!).
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