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An honest mistake?

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ssharma1121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
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So I had my wonderful 1.77 ct RB solitaire ring appraised by Michael Jordan at AGA. I asked about appraisal questions in a previous post and put a list together and brought it with me. Well, in 2 hours we only got up to question #3 (does the ring match the certificate?). Why? Because the answer to question #3 is NO! Mr. Jordan had to come up with his own plot because the ring and certificate were completely different. My certificate shows a few inclusions and feathers on the table. My stone has all of its inclusions and feathers on the facets and nothing on the table. The problem is that we bought this stone from UD without looking at the certificate. We bought the stone based on Jeff''s opinion. Now that the stone and certificate don''t match, I don''t know if this really was the stone Jeff was looking at or if there was a mix-up and they sent us the wrong certificate. Mr. Jordan was very kind and thorough and said it was up to me and my fiance on what to do. We can keep the stone, or return it and ask for a GIA stone. I like the stone (eyeclean except when looking through the pavilion) but this lack of a match between the certificate and stone bothers me. What would you do?

By the way, I loved AGA. If I ever need any jewelry appraised ever again, that''s where I would go.
 
Certainly, explore the discrepancy, and it''s possible that would be a deal breaker for me, too, on principle...don''t know.

But...apart from the plot...does the match otherwise...meaning the diamond would essentially still meet the original criteria you brought to select it. I presume this is the case...but don''t know for sure. If you don''t like the value proposition based on the diamond...forgetting the paper...you can stop there.

But...if the diamond may meet your requirements, regardless of the paper...at least pursue with UD for their explanation. Then see where to go. Maybe your option, of course, IS different...AND better?
 
Thanks for the prompt response Ira. My fiance really fell in love with the stone (he loves looking at it more than I do!). I like it, but I did notice it was yellower than an H SI1 as stated on the report. Mr. Jordan said it was probably an L SI2. Since it was an EGL report, I expected it to be a little off. When Jeff at UD looked at the stone, he told my fiance that it was more a I SI2. I still don''t know if the stone Jeff looked at is the same one set in my ring. Furthermore, EGL may be soft on their grading, but I don''t think the stone plot would be completely different. Mr. Jordan provided me with a report that states that the diamond does not match the report. I don''t know what to do because we spent so much time looking for a stone and my fiance loves this stone. I''m meeting my fiance for lunch in 45 minutes, so I will get his take. Mr. Jordan said it could happen to anyone, but he said it was very rare for the stone to not match the report at all. The only similarities this stone has with the report is the carats and it is close with the dimensions.

Aren''t inclusions like fingerprints? This stone is not the stone from the report at all.
 
The EGL stone? I'm not surprised...it MIGHT BE the stone that goes with the cert, but EGL is just so bad that it doesn't match? From the numbers you posted earlier, HCA wouldn't run, but EGL gave it a medium girdle.
 
Would UD offer to have it regraded through GIA?
 
There''s a big difference between I and L--and a bigger difference between H and L. If I were lookign for an H, I certainly wouldn''t settle for an L just because someone else made a mistake!

But if you love the diamond, maybe they''d be able to give you a price break to reflect the difference in quality?
 
Definitely contact UD in the first instance as Ira recommends.
 
I would return the stone. The stone is poorly cut - The HCA would not even calculate the girdle is so thick. Now you also know that the clarity and color grading are way off. 4 color grades and a clarity off beats the stone I had that was two color grades and two clarities off. That means you WAY overpaid.
Return it and get a better stone - if you are interested, we are happy to help if you want to post a budget and your desires to work in (even if you want to go smaller to match what your peers are wearing as mentioned in another thread)
 
Date: 9/4/2008 11:49:25 AM
Author: ssharma1121
Thanks for the prompt response Ira. My fiance really fell in love with the stone (he loves looking at it more than I do!). I like it, but I did notice it was yellower than an H SI1 as stated on the report. Mr. Jordan said it was probably an L SI2. Since it was an EGL report, I expected it to be a little off. When Jeff at UD looked at the stone, he told my fiance that it was more a I SI2. I still don''t know if the stone Jeff looked at is the same one set in my ring. Furthermore, EGL may be soft on their grading, but I don''t think the stone plot would be completely different. Mr. Jordan provided me with a report that states that the diamond does not match the report. I don''t know what to do because we spent so much time looking for a stone and my fiance loves this stone. I''m meeting my fiance for lunch in 45 minutes, so I will get his take. Mr. Jordan said it could happen to anyone, but he said it was very rare for the stone to not match the report at all. The only similarities this stone has with the report is the carats and it is close with the dimensions.

Aren''t inclusions like fingerprints? This stone is not the stone from the report at all.
Actually on second thought the first thing is that you need to get the stone that matches the report - maybe they sent you the wrong stone? If they say it is the correct one, then return it without passing go or collecting $200
 
Date: 9/4/2008 11:49:25 AM
Author: ssharma1121
Thanks for the prompt response Ira. My fiance really fell in love with the stone (he loves looking at it more than I do!). I like it, but I did notice it was yellower than an H SI1 as stated on the report. Mr. Jordan said it was probably an L SI2. Since it was an EGL report, I expected it to be a little off. When Jeff at UD looked at the stone, he told my fiance that it was more a I SI2. I still don''t know if the stone Jeff looked at is the same one set in my ring. Furthermore, EGL may be soft on their grading, but I don''t think the stone plot would be completely different. Mr. Jordan provided me with a report that states that the diamond does not match the report. I don''t know what to do because we spent so much time looking for a stone and my fiance loves this stone. I''m meeting my fiance for lunch in 45 minutes, so I will get his take. Mr. Jordan said it could happen to anyone, but he said it was very rare for the stone to not match the report at all. The only similarities this stone has with the report is the carats and it is close with the dimensions.

Aren''t inclusions like fingerprints? This stone is not the stone from the report at all.
If your fiance loves this stone imagine how head-over-heels he''s going to be for one that truly is an H SI1.

Seriously, get that thing back to UD. And whether it was a mistake or not I would pass on it and use the $$$ to get one that scores better (or at all, for that matter) on the HCA.
 
Well, I talked about the ring with my fiance, Adam, during lunchtime. We were both pretty upset about the stone. He called Union Diamond and told them the diamond plots don''t match. He marched over to AGA and wanted to talk to Mr. Jordan. Luckily he had just finished with a client and was free to talk to Adam. He told him the whole story (very kind of him for talking to us and not charging anything). I think that Mr. Jordon will be our appraiser for life. We authorized him to speak to Union Diamond. Jeff from UD called him and asked about the plots. Mr. Jordon has a high opinion of Jeff so we might use UD again. Mr. Jordan will probably be our middleman if we do business with UD since we have trouble trusting UD anymore. My ring has a custom setting from Union Diamond, so we can return the stone but not the ring. I know everyone loves WF here, but their return period is just too short for us. I am debating on whether to get another stone from UD again.

I''ve been torn about the size. My fiance does not want to do an upgrade ever, so I am locked into whatever size we get. And... I have unfortunately already told everyone about my ring. So if I go smaller, people will wonder what''s up. Though now my fiance knows that everyone in the office has a much smaller stone, so I might end up going smaller anyways due to cost constraints.

Our budget is a little over $8000. I want the best combo of cut and carat. I want to go down to an I (maybe J if bigger) and an eyeclean (at 10 inches) SI2.
 
What is the diameter that Jeff told you?

I'd return to UD. Then try to find a stone from Infinity that's a good deal. 1.77 H Si1 for 8000? I'm sorry, but if it's too good to be true...
15.gif
 
A couple of suggestions for you:

a) Here''s one you may want to consider from a quality vendor, who will only do virtual options by request (and otherwise has them in stock), and gives you, I''m pretty sure, 30 days to review.

b) I went fishing and found a favorite old thread on the virtues of both EGL and EGL Israel.
 
I'll keep posting as the situation changes. Adam, my fiance, talked to Jeff on the phone. Jeff apologized profusely but then had the audacity to say that it was a fair price. Adam cut him off. The big issue here is not that the stone is 4 grades off or 1 clarity off, the stone does NOT match the certificate because the inclusions are completely different and the girdle is bruted and not faceted . Jeff made the executive decision to have the ring returned and UD will work out a deal until we have 100% satisfaction. So currently, my ring is being overnighted to Atlanta and there will be a conclusion.

In the meantime, we are looking for a new stone. Adam has soured on online vendors. I still want to give them a chance.

Thanks again for the help, input, and support!

By the way, Jeff did not give us info about the diamond other than it's more like I SI1 1.77 ct RB that's eyeclean. I wanted to ask for the report before we received the stone but Adam said we would get it with the stone so what's the hurry.
 
I want to know if the girdle is very thick. You have a setting custom made, and the seat is already cut. You already paid for the appraisal...just get the report. It's informational and educational.
 
Date: 9/4/2008 7:19:09 PM
Author: ssharma1121
I''ll keep posting as the situation changes. Adam, my fiance, talked to Jeff on the phone. Jeff apologized profusely but then had the audacity to say that it was a fair price. Adam cut him off. The big issue here is not that the stone is 4 grades off or 1 clarity off, the stone does NOT match the certificate because the inclusions are completely different and the girdle is bruted and not faceted . Jeff made the executive decision to have the ring returned and UD will work out a deal until we have 100% satisfaction. So currently, my ring is being overnighted to Atlanta and there will be a conclusion.

In the meantime, we are looking for a new stone. Adam has soured on online vendors. I still want to give them a chance.

Thanks again for the help, input, and support!

By the way, Jeff did not give us info about the diamond other than it''s more like I SI1 1.77 ct RB that''s eyeclean. I wanted to ask for the report before we received the stone but Adam said we would get it with the stone so what''s the hurry.
1. I lost confidence in UD myself after an experience where I had to return a stone. I also found that UD''s definition of eyeclean was different than mine, so make sure that when UD tells you it is eyeclean you know precisely what his definition is. Don''t let one experience with one on line vendor sour you on all other on line vendors. I did find them to be very good with the return.

2. Adam is in medicine, no? Would he prescribe an ace inhibitor without first having data (in the form of labs)? Would he send a patient to the OR for a lung resection without preop films/labs/pfts? I use that for an analogy to purchasing the diamond - look at the report BEFORE you get the stone - if it has any red flags, it is an utter waste of time and $ and heartache. Your last stone had red flags before it arrived although not in the form of color/clarity discrepancies.
 
Date: 9/4/2008 9:36:56 PM
Author: :)
Date: 9/4/2008 7:19:09 PM

Author: ssharma1121

I''ll keep posting as the situation changes. Adam, my fiance, talked to Jeff on the phone. Jeff apologized profusely but then had the audacity to say that it was a fair price. Adam cut him off. The big issue here is not that the stone is 4 grades off or 1 clarity off, the stone does NOT match the certificate because the inclusions are completely different and the girdle is bruted and not faceted . Jeff made the executive decision to have the ring returned and UD will work out a deal until we have 100% satisfaction. So currently, my ring is being overnighted to Atlanta and there will be a conclusion.


In the meantime, we are looking for a new stone. Adam has soured on online vendors. I still want to give them a chance.


Thanks again for the help, input, and support!


By the way, Jeff did not give us info about the diamond other than it''s more like I SI1 1.77 ct RB that''s eyeclean. I wanted to ask for the report before we received the stone but Adam said we would get it with the stone so what''s the hurry.

1. I lost confidence in UD myself after an experience where I had to return a stone. I also found that UD''s definition of eyeclean was different than mine, so make sure that when UD tells you it is eyeclean you know precisely what his definition is. Don''t let one experience with one on line vendor sour you on all other on line vendors. I did find them to be very good with the return.


2. Adam is in medicine, no? Would he prescribe an ace inhibitor without first having data (in the form of labs)? Would he send a patient to the OR for a lung resection without preop films/labs/pfts? I use that for an analogy to purchasing the diamond - look at the report BEFORE you get the stone - if it has any red flags, it is an utter waste of time and $ and heartache. Your last stone had red flags before it arrived although not in the form of color/clarity discrepancies.

Your comments regarding Adam are rude and uncalled for. Launching an attack after someone''s misfortune shows a complete lack of empathy. Please do not post any longer on this thread. I do not expect and would not appreciate your reply.
 
Date: 9/4/2008 11:05:51 PM
Author: ssharma1121

Date: 9/4/2008 9:36:56 PM
Author: :)

Date: 9/4/2008 7:19:09 PM

Author: ssharma1121

I''ll keep posting as the situation changes. Adam, my fiance, talked to Jeff on the phone. Jeff apologized profusely but then had the audacity to say that it was a fair price. Adam cut him off. The big issue here is not that the stone is 4 grades off or 1 clarity off, the stone does NOT match the certificate because the inclusions are completely different and the girdle is bruted and not faceted . Jeff made the executive decision to have the ring returned and UD will work out a deal until we have 100% satisfaction. So currently, my ring is being overnighted to Atlanta and there will be a conclusion.


In the meantime, we are looking for a new stone. Adam has soured on online vendors. I still want to give them a chance.


Thanks again for the help, input, and support!


By the way, Jeff did not give us info about the diamond other than it''s more like I SI1 1.77 ct RB that''s eyeclean. I wanted to ask for the report before we received the stone but Adam said we would get it with the stone so what''s the hurry.

1. I lost confidence in UD myself after an experience where I had to return a stone. I also found that UD''s definition of eyeclean was different than mine, so make sure that when UD tells you it is eyeclean you know precisely what his definition is. Don''t let one experience with one on line vendor sour you on all other on line vendors. I did find them to be very good with the return.


2. Adam is in medicine, no? Would he prescribe an ace inhibitor without first having data (in the form of labs)? Would he send a patient to the OR for a lung resection without preop films/labs/pfts? I use that for an analogy to purchasing the diamond - look at the report BEFORE you get the stone - if it has any red flags, it is an utter waste of time and $ and heartache. Your last stone had red flags before it arrived although not in the form of color/clarity discrepancies.

Your comments regarding Adam are rude and uncalled for. Launching an attack after someone''s misfortune shows a complete lack of empathy. Please do not post any longer on this thread. I do not expect and would not appreciate your reply.
??
I am sorry if you mistook my statement - it was in no way intended to be rude and in no way was an attack! I was actually trying to give you an analogy to give to Adam so he could understand the importance of evaluating the report before allowing UD to simply send you another stone. I am an Attending Physician and was trying to help you relate the importance to him in terms that he will understand.
 
Date: 9/4/2008 11:05:51 PM
Author: ssharma1121


Date: 9/4/2008 9:36:56 PM
Author: :)



1. I lost confidence in UD myself after an experience where I had to return a stone. I also found that UD's definition of eyeclean was different than mine, so make sure that when UD tells you it is eyeclean you know precisely what his definition is. Don't let one experience with one on line vendor sour you on all other on line vendors. I did find them to be very good with the return.


2. Adam is in medicine, no? Would he prescribe an ace inhibitor without first having data (in the form of labs)? Would he send a patient to the OR for a lung resection without preop films/labs/pfts? I use that for an analogy to purchasing the diamond - look at the report BEFORE you get the stone - if it has any red flags, it is an utter waste of time and $ and heartache. Your last stone had red flags before it arrived although not in the form of color/clarity discrepancies.

Your comments regarding Adam are rude and uncalled for. Launching an attack after someone's misfortune shows a complete lack of empathy. Please do not post any longer on this thread. I do not expect and would not appreciate your reply.

ssharma, I really think that :) was only trying to provide an analogy for the situation - this was the way I read it. Sometimes reading online can be difficult to comprehend as there is no tone or inflection for us to judge what someone is saying.
In all honesty, I have seen :) be helpful and polite to other members since joining, they were not trying to be offensive .
*An honest mistake I believe*
2.gif


With regards to your problem, I definately agree with the other posters to return the diamond and have it resolved asap what exactly happened.
I hope it is sorted to your satisfaction.
5.gif
 
Date: 9/5/2008 1:13:43 AM
Author: :)

Date: 9/4/2008 11:05:51 PM
Author: ssharma1121


Date: 9/4/2008 9:36:56 PM
Author: :)


Date: 9/4/2008 7:19:09 PM

Author: ssharma1121

I''ll keep posting as the situation changes. Adam, my fiance, talked to Jeff on the phone. Jeff apologized profusely but then had the audacity to say that it was a fair price. Adam cut him off. The big issue here is not that the stone is 4 grades off or 1 clarity off, the stone does NOT match the certificate because the inclusions are completely different and the girdle is bruted and not faceted . Jeff made the executive decision to have the ring returned and UD will work out a deal until we have 100% satisfaction. So currently, my ring is being overnighted to Atlanta and there will be a conclusion.


In the meantime, we are looking for a new stone. Adam has soured on online vendors. I still want to give them a chance.


Thanks again for the help, input, and support!


By the way, Jeff did not give us info about the diamond other than it''s more like I SI1 1.77 ct RB that''s eyeclean. I wanted to ask for the report before we received the stone but Adam said we would get it with the stone so what''s the hurry.

1. I lost confidence in UD myself after an experience where I had to return a stone. I also found that UD''s definition of eyeclean was different than mine, so make sure that when UD tells you it is eyeclean you know precisely what his definition is. Don''t let one experience with one on line vendor sour you on all other on line vendors. I did find them to be very good with the return.


2. Adam is in medicine, no? Would he prescribe an ace inhibitor without first having data (in the form of labs)? Would he send a patient to the OR for a lung resection without preop films/labs/pfts? I use that for an analogy to purchasing the diamond - look at the report BEFORE you get the stone - if it has any red flags, it is an utter waste of time and $ and heartache. Your last stone had red flags before it arrived although not in the form of color/clarity discrepancies.

Your comments regarding Adam are rude and uncalled for. Launching an attack after someone''s misfortune shows a complete lack of empathy. Please do not post any longer on this thread. I do not expect and would not appreciate your reply.
??
I am sorry if you mistook my statement - it was in no way intended to be rude and in no way was an attack! I was actually trying to give you an analogy to give to Adam so he could understand the importance of evaluating the report before allowing UD to simply send you another stone. I am an Attending Physician and was trying to help you relate the importance to him in terms that he will understand.
ssharma, with due respect I think you misunderstood :)''s words, she has not and never would attack anyone here, she is a highly respected and valued long term member of Pricescope.
 
I must agree with aj and Lorelei. :) has never been anything but helpful, polite and encouraging. You have indeed misunderstood her post/intentions.
2.gif



Also, you mentioned WF's return policy being too short. Under certain circumstances, they will extend it. You would just need to talk with them.
28.gif



I wish you much luck with all this.
 
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