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American Crime Story: OJ Simpson

liaerfbv

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Anyone watched this? DH and I watched all 10 episodes this weekend and I was completely enthralled. I was too young to remember the case - the verdict came in when I was in 6th grade, and I'm pretty sure my parents intentionally shielded me from it on the news. Prior to watching the show, I pretty much only knew that he was found not guilty and the glove didn't fit. I knew there was something about a car chase, but I never knew the details of how or when that happened.

I wonder how accurate the show is. I'd love to hear from those of you who both watched the show and are old enough to remember the actual trial. It's shocking to me they found him not guilty based on the evidence, but I'm only basing that opinion on a televised drama, so I assume some liberties were taken.

I also can't believe how unethical most of the attorneys involved were, and how lax the Judge was. It's almost too sensational to even be true.
 

missy

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We watched one or two episodes and it was not interesting to us at all. But then again we lived through the whole saga and it was too much even at that time for me. It just went on and on forever. And it was a ridiculous outcome. A real travesty of justice.

I saw some of the real life people involved interviewed on Oprah Where Are They Now and all of them said (Marcia Clark, the sister of Ron Goldman, Kato Kaelin, etc) that they were not contacted at all for this series. So their points of view were entirely made up for entertainment purposes only. They could have contacted the real people involved in this affair but the producers did not make any such attempt. I thought that was very telling.

And no, your observations are correct. It really was that much of a miscarriage of justice. All the evidence pointed to him being 100% guilty. No doubt about it. Many many things are wrong with our justice system and this case highlights them all.
 

liaerfbv

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missy|1460382220|4017893 said:
We watched one or two episodes and it was not interesting to us at all. But then again we lived through the whole saga and it was too much even at that time for me. It just went on and on forever. And it was a ridiculous outcome. A real travesty of justice.

I saw some of the real life people involved interviewed on Oprah Where Are They Now and all of them said (Marcia Clark, the sister of Ron Goldman, Kato Kaelin, etc) that they were not contacted at all for this series. So their points of view were entirely made up for entertainment purposes only. They could have contacted the real people involved in this affair but the producers did not make any such attempt. I thought that was very telling.

And no, your observations are correct. It really was that much of a miscarriage of justice. All the evidence pointed to him being 100% guilty. No doubt about it. Many many things are wrong with our justice system and this case highlights them all.

I know a little what you mean about living through it - we were living in Orlando during the Casey Anthony trial and I was so inundated with it, I had to tune it out. I don't think if they made a miniseries such as this in a few years I could watch it (and that case was nowhere near the magnitude it seems of the OJ trial).

It is very interesting that they didn't contact anyone. A friend told me Marcia Clark made a statement that she watched a little of it and found it too true to life and was painful to watch. I know they based the show off of one particular book, I may read it. As interesting as I found the series, I do feel awful for the victims' families having to live through it again since it's resurged in the media because of the show.

The next American Crime Story will focus on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. I'm very curious how that will be handled.
 

Queenie60

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I remember the OJ car chase - the whole drama unfolding. My son was a baby, around 1994 this happened. So naturally I was able to watch it as I was home with a colicky baby and the entertainment was welcomed! The entire case was Hollywood drama at it's best. It was similar to some of the reality shows you see everywhere on the TV. I felt that he was guilty and got off due to the fact that he was a celebrity. I remember how unbelievable it was that they allowed cameras in the court room. Seems that the series was quite similar to the case as it happened. I couldn't believe how all of the actors looked very much like the person they were portraying.
 

Laila619

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I was 12 or 13 when the trial was going on, so I didn't remember a whole lot, but it really is shocking to me that he was found not guilty when there was SO MUCH evidence that shows he did it. I don't think some jurors really comprehend what "reasonable doubt" really means.
 

Snowdrop13

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I saw a couple of episodes but had to give up as the camera work made me feel seasick! Horrible story all round, although I was quite fascinated by the role played by Robert Kardashian, given the family's place in the media nowadays.
 

missy

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Some people believe that Jury Nullification was the reason behind the not guilty verdict. Here are some definitions.

Jury nullification occurs when a jury returns a verdict of "Not Guilty" despite its belief that the defendant is guilty of the violation charged. The jury in effect nullifies a law that it believes is either immoral or wrongly applied to the defendant whose fate they are charged with deciding.

Jury Nullification: Refusal of a jury to find a defendant guilty, even when the facts establish guilt, because of a conclusion that conviction would be contrary to some other concept of justice.

Wherein members of a jury disregard either the evidence presented of the instructions of the judge in order to reach a verdict based on their own consciences.
 

kenny

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Up till a few months ago I was convinced that OJ was guilty.
I read something, or maybe watched something, that presented an argument that his son did it, OJ new it and was protecting him.

I'm not arguing this it true.
I just have a bit of doubt now.
Frankly, I don't care.
If interested, you can Google it.

I'm fine with not being sure and the majority of people being sure.

The case illuminated the fact that black and white Americans live in very different Americas.
Blacks have a much higher incidence of being framed by police because of their race.
That education was important, though it fell on many deaf white ears.
 

liaerfbv

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I'm definitely interested to read more into the theory that his son committed the crime. We'll never really know either way, but even if he was covering for his son, the physical evidence pointed to Simpson beyond a reasonable doubt.

The show makes the racial divide between the jurors very clear and almost goes as far as to say he was found not guilty solely because he was black and the majority of the jury were black, evidence notwithstanding. I can see where some people might think jury nullification was the issue, but it seems like they actually thought he was innocent and framed.
 

partgypsy

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That doesn't make sense. Both OJ's blood and Nicolle's blood was found at the scene and in his car. OJ had a cut on his hand.. OJ's son didn't have a motive for the killing, which was considered a "crime of passion" while OJ did. Unless you think the police framed him, there is just too much evidence that anyone but OJ did it.

I've been watching this series. My husband broke his leg right before the trial so literally watched the entire court case. He says it is very detailed and the portrayals of the different people is spot on.

Here is a list of evidence that ties OJ to the murder.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/index/nns25.htm
 

missy

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I think OJ did the murders. Nicole had told other people that he was going to murder her and get away with it.


Nicole confides in therapist Susan Forward she feared OJ would murder her.

Pals Faye Resnick and Robin Greir say Nicole told them OJ was going to kill her.

OJ admits to Resnick he was seeing a therapist over his volatile feelings for Nicole.

Nicole has her sister Denise Brown take pictures of her bruised body, locks them in a safe-deposit box, and tell Denise: "I need proof that OJ beat me. Without proof no one will ever believe me. The public thinks he's a hero who can do no wrong.
http://pages.infinit.net/reparvit/nicole12.html


AT THE CRIME SCENE:


1. Nicole's pet dog Kato, a ferocious Akita, did not attack the killer, suggesting the murderer was someone who the dog knew, such as OJ.

2. Nicole's neighbor Robert Heidstra testifies he heard two men arguing and then saw a white van (similar to a Ford Bronco) rapidly leaving the murder scene.

3. Police find two sets of keys to Nicole's condo on OJ's possession. Nicole reported a set of keys missing a few weeks before the slayings.

4. Expert testimony state that the killer walked from the crime scene and did not run, proving he was familiar enough with his surroundings to safely walk away.

5. Witness Jill Shively says she saw OJ driving his speeding Bronco from the Bundy murder scene around the time of the slayings.


AT THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE:


6. At 9:37 p.m. on the night of the murders, houseguest Kato Kaelin said he saw Simpson wearing a dark blue cotton sweat suit, the same kind of suit that produced the fibers found on Ron Goldman's shirt.

7. Kato hears thumps outside his window between 10:50 p.m. and 10:51 p.m. near where the bloody glove is found.

8. Kato testified that at around 11 p.m. the night of the murders, when he was loading OJ's five bags into the limousine for Simpson's trip to the airport, OJ told him not to touch the smallest black bag which was ready to be loaded into the car. It was the only bag Simpson told him not to touch.

9. Prosecutor believed the black bag held Simpson's bloody clothing and the murder knife. The bag was never seen again.

10. Limo driver Allan Park testified he saw five bags loaded into the car before he left Rockingham but skycap James Williams counted only three bags when OJ got out of the car. He said he noticed Simpson standing by a trash can afterward which led prosecutors to speculate that Simpson stuffed the small bag into the bin. Defense attorney's failed to produce the missing black bag.


NICOLE'S FEARS:


11. A week before her death, Nicole tells friend Cici Shahian: "He's going to kill me and get away with it and charm the world because he's OJ Simpson".

12. Pals Faye Resnick and Robin Greir say Nicole told them OJ was going to kill her.

13. Nicole confides in therapist Susan Forward she feared OJ would murder her.

14. In 1982, OJ throws Nicole against a wall: In 1987, he shoves her to the ground; and in 1989, he slaps her and pushes her from a moving car.

15. Nicole makes out her will five weeks before she was murdered.

16. Police respond to a 911 call on New Year's Day 1989 to find a bruised and bleeding Nicole hiding in the bushes, wearing only a bra and sweatpants, crying: "He's going to kill me! He's going to kill me!"

17. Nicole has her sister Denise Brown take pictures of her bruised body, locks them in a safe-deposit box, and tell Denise: "I need proof that OJ beat me. Without proof no one will ever believe me. The public thinks he's a hero who can do no wrong.

18. A nightmarish 911 police recording in 1993 has Nicole shouting: "When he gets this crazed, I get scared...He gets a very animalistic look in him...His eyes are black, just black, I mean cold, like an animal."

19. Nicole tells Faye Resnick, "I look at (OJ's) arms and think 'God, are these going to be the arms that kill me someday?"

20. OJ admits to Resnick he was seeing a therapist over his volatile feelings for Nicole.

21. Nicole tells Kato she thought OJ would kill her with scissors.


THE DAY OF THE MURDERS:


22. The murders happen after Nicole reject OJ's company at their daughter's dance recital.

23. In preparation for what appeared to be a rendezvous with someone, Nicole has a bath ready and is burning candles just before her murder. Prosecutor Chris Darden believes OJ spied his ex-wife Nicole lighting candles and killed her in a jealous rage.

24. DNA evidence proved that five blood drops found near the killer's footprints at the Bundy murder scene belong to OJ.

25. DNA evidence showed that OJ's blood trail from his Bronco to his Rockingham estate included: one blood drop behind the Bronco on the street (Rockingham), one on the driveway just inside the Rochingham gate, three more on the driveway leading to the front door of Simpson's residence, five on the floor of the foyer and one on the bathroom floor.

26. DNA test proved that spots of blood on the driver's door of the Bronco was OJ's.

27. DNA tests proved that three blood stains found on the rear gate of Nicole's home belonged to OJ.

28. DNA tests proved that in at least one blood drop found at the Bundy murder scene, the chances of it belonging to anyone but OJ are about 170 million to one.

29. Just on the blood evidence alone, there's only one out of 57 billion chance that Simpson is innocent. Fifty-seven billion is approximately 10 times the current population of the entire world.

30. At the Bundy premises, Simpson's blood was found at the exact spot where the murders were committed.

31. Drops of OJ's blood lead from his driveway into the foyer of his Rockingham mansion.

32. Blood on socks in OJ's bedroom matches OJ's and Nicole's.

33. Cops find blood in the shower and sink of OJ's bathroom after the murders.

34. Tests show that three stains on the Bronco's console were a mixture of OJ's blood with that of both of the victims. Another console stain is a mixture of OJ's and Ron's blood, and Nicole's blood was found on the driver's side carpet.

35. Nicole's DNA in blood found on OJ's socks, occurs in olny 1 out of 21 billion people.

36. DNA from Ron Goldman's blood found on the Rockingham glove, has only a 1-in-41 billion chance of belonging to someone else.

37. Cellmark, the nation's largest private DNA laboratory, ran 11 genetic tests on blood drops found at the crime scene and on a blood drop found in OJ's house - and every test matched it with OJ's blood.


THE FIBERS:


38. Fibers on the knit cap found at the murder scene match material in OJ's Bronco.

39. Fibers on the bloody glove found behind OJ's house match carpeting in OJ's Bronco.

40. Forensic test confirm fibers on Ron's shirt match the dark sweatsuit Kato says OJ wore the night of the murders.


HAIRS


41. Hairs found in the knit cap match OJ's.

42. Hair matching OJ's is found on Goldman's shirt.

43. A 12-inch hair matching Nicole's is discovered on the bloody glove.

44. A bloody glove matching the glove found at the murder scene that was found on OJ's property within hours of the murders contains a hair with the same microscopic characteristics as Ron's and Nicole's.

45. The killer's bloody shoe print found at the murder scene is from a size 12 Bruno Magli shoe, the same size worn by OJ.

46. OJ denies owning Bruno Magli shoes but a photo of OJ from a 1993 football game shows him wearing Bruno Maglis that match the prints at the murder scene.

47. GLOBE publishes photos of the Juice wearing Bruno Maglis at another football game.

48. FBI agent William Bodziak testified in the trial that an area of the bloody shoe print inside OJ's bronco could have been made from the corner of a Bruno Magli shoe.

49. Only 299 pairs of these size 12 rare Italian-made Bruno Magli shoes were ever distributed in the United States in 1991 and 1992, and were sold in olny 40 stores in the entire country, one of which is Bloomingdales in New York, where Simpson just happens to have a regular customer during the same period.


THE GLOVES


50. A bloody glove matching the one at the murder scene is found behind OJ's house near the air-conditioning unit, where Kato hears three thumps.

51. The glove at the murder scene and the glove at OJ's home are extra large: OJ's size. And they are a matching right and left glove.

52. Both gloves are identical to the type Nicole bought for Simpson at Bloomingdales in December of 1990, one of only two hundred pairs like them sold through out the whole country that year.

53. Photos and videos of OJ show him wearing the gloves that match the ones found at his home and the murder scene.


THE CUT ON OJ'S FINGER

54. On the night of the murders, OJ cuts the knuckle of his left middle finger. Investigators determine the murderer is cut on the same side based on the blood drops found immediately to the left of the killer's shoe print.

55. Asked by police how he cut his finger, OJ first said: "I don't know". He then said he cut it in Chicago and immediately afterward said he reopened the cut in Chicago, admitting that he cut himself in L.A

56. When Simpson was interrogated by LAPD detectives on the afternoon after the murders, he said he had not cut himself the last time he was at the Bundy address a week earlier. Defense attorney tried to say that his blood at the murder scene came from a previous visit to the address; not on the day of the murders.

57. When police arrested Simpson he had three other cuts besides the deep wound on his finger and seven abrasions.


ODD BEHAVIOR


58. OJ doesn't ask questions about his ex-wife's murder when police notify him in Chicago.

59. The Juice doesn't ask police anything about the safety of his two youngest children after he's told his wife has been murdered at her home.

60. Simpson complains about the heat and sweats during his limo drive to LA airport- even though it is cool out and the air conditioning is on.

61. Flight attendant Beverly Deteresa says OJ gulped down glasses of water and went to the bathroom every 15 minutes throughout the flight.

62. OJ does not shed one tear during his first interview about the murder of his ex-wife.

63. He spends less than a minute at Nicole's grave during his first visit after he's acquitted of murdering her.

64. OJ promises to hunt down the "real" killer of Nicole and Ron Goldman, but fails to pursue his own investigation- even when private investigators offer their services to him for free.

65. The Juice expresses no surprise when police tell him he's a suspect in the murders.

66. Photos show OJ holding a gun to his head during the low-speed chase.

67. Simpson writes a suicide note that is read after his escape from arrest on June 17, 1994. The note is written from pal Robert Kardashian's house on June 15- and reeks of guilt.


THE BRONCO


68. Cellular phone records put OJ in his Bronco at 10:03 p.m., only minutes before the murders took place.

69. OJ's Ford Bronco is parked at a haphazard angle in front of his home the night of the murders.

70. OJ flees from cops on June 17, 1994 in Cowling's Ford Bronco.

71. Jennifer Peace, Cowling lover, tells a grand jury AC admitted OJ was heading to Mexico in the Bronco.

72. After OJ's arrest, police find in his possession a passport, a gun, a fake mustache and a beard, and fresh changes of underwear in the Bronco.

73. Police find cash totaling $8, 750 in Cowling's possession after the Bronco chase. Cowling later says OJ told him to carry the money.

74. A receipt found in the Bronco shows OJ purchased his false beard and mustache on May 27, 1994, just two weeks before the murders.


NICOLE'S FAMILY


75. Denise Brown testifies her reaction to Nicole's death was: "Oh my God, he killed her. He always said he would kill her".

76. Juditha Brown says OJ threatened to kill the Brown family in 1979 if Nicole left him.

77. Juditha says after OJ and Nicole divorced in 1992 he became "very neurotic" and phoned his former mother-in-law "six times a day" to tell her how upset he was about the split.


THE CHICAGO HOTEL

78. Two plastic bags were missing from the hotel room in Chicago where OJ stayed.

79. A broken glass is found in OJ's Chicago hotel room the day after the murders. Simpson says he had reopened the cut on his finger on that glass after he heard the news of his ex-wife's murder. But the glass didn't have any blood on it.


OJ'S ALIBIS


80. Defense witness Dr. Robert Huizenga, at one time the team physician for the Los Angeles Raiders, was called to the stand in the trial to establish that Simpson's arthritic condition would have prevented him from commiting the murders. But he conceded on cross-examination that Simpson definitely was physically capable of commiting the murders of Nicole and Ron.

81. There's only one hour during the 24-hours day that OJ does not have an alibi: the hour of the murders. OJ brushes that off by saying he was home alone.

82. Defense attorney Johnnie Cochran tells the jury that OJ was chipping golf balls at the time the murders took place, while Simpson tells the limo driver he was napping.

83. When he's late for his limo, Simpson tell the chauffeur that he overslept. But the driver seeing a large figure about 6-ft 2-in tall, dresses in black and weighing 200 pounds, walk into the entrance of Simpson's home-at the time OJ says he was sleeping.

84. Also, the chauffeur says he saw this figure at the time he saw Kato walking around with a flashlight (after hearing the three thumps). And the figure was coming from the direction where Kato heard three thumps.

85. Limo driver Park said he rang OJ's buzzer for 20 minutes without a reply, but shortly after he saw the figure going into Simpson's home, OJ answered the buzzer.

86. An expert testifies the bloody gloves would have fit OJ except that blood and moisture caused the extra-large gloves to shrink a full size.

87. OJ claims he couldn't have murdered anyone because of his old football injuries, but just before the slayings, he made an exercise video and he still plays golf on a regular basis.

88. OJ's son Jason, admits he originally thought his father was guilty.

89. OJ says blood at the murder scene came from times he played there with his children before, but the drops are close to the bloody footprints leading from the bodies.


STUDIES


90. Experts say the murders are consistent with a rage killing, not a Mafia hit or a professional slaying. There is no sign of a break-in or a burglary at the murder scene.

91. In 60 percent of all domestic murders the killer beats his victim, strangles his victim, stabs his victim or slashes his victim's throat.


THE KNIFE


92. Jennifer Peace says AC told her the knife "sleeps with the fishes".

93. Friends say OJ knew Nicole's worst fear was to be killed with a knife


CONFESSIONS


94. Nicole's mom Juditha Brown reveals she overheard OJ moaning "I loved you too much," over Nicole's casket.

95. Pals say OJ told Nicole "If I can't have you, no one else can".

96. Prosecutor Darden claims OJ told a pal the night of Nicole's murder "I'm going to get her. I'm going to teach her a lesson".

97. Ron Shipp say OJ told him he had dreams of killing Nicole.

98. OJ sobbed: "I didn't mean to do it. I didn't mean for things to turn out this way," according to Cowling's girlfriend Jennifer Peace.

99. GLOBE discovers OJ took a polygraph test before the trial and scored a minus 20, which is classified as deceptive.

100. OJ lawyer Robert Shapiro says "probably did it" is not sufficient to convict his client.

101. Prison guard Jeff Stuart in the room when OJ talked to minister Rosey Grier swears in an affidavit he heard OJ shout: "I didn't mean to do it. I'm sorry."


...But still to this day, NOBODY will never forget who the real Nicole Brown was; a devoted mother, a beautiful women with a lot of dreams and hope but most of all, a very special person that would stay forever in our life for having touched us by her devastating end.

- Edith Robitaille.
and the 4 most popular conspiracy theories with the #1 conspiracy theory being OJ's son did it.
http://www.people.com/article/oj-simpson-trial-anniversary-conspiracy-theories


And lastly OJ is a narcissistic wife beater a dangerous combination and also unlikely to take the murder rap for anyone even his son.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/bill-dear-is-full-of-it-and-i-can-prove-it-6684433

"The narcissistic person has an impaired ability to understand other people's feelings and point of view. And if you look at O.J.'s history, that describes him perfectly.... If you look at his combination of narcissism and spousal abuse, which we know he was involved in, then I would say that's a dangerous combination."

He dismisses claims by Dear and his experts that O.J. was not capable of wielding a knife so savagely: "I think that is a false premise. I can certainly imagine O.J. committing such a crime." But he says the biggest howler in Dear's book is that O.J. would risk his own freedom for Jason's sake. As a deeply narcissistic person, O.J. would never take the rap for someone else.
 

partgypsy

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yes I don't think OJ would take the rap and go to prison for anyone, even his son.
 

monarch64

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I was in high school when it happened, a freshman in college when the verdict came out. I remember some of the highlights but I was so wrapped up in everyday life at that point in time that I didn't pay close attention to the trial. All these years later I have no desire to watch anything about it. I always thought OJ Simpson murdered Nicole and Ron, and I still think that's the case. I guess it would be interesting if I hadn't seen it the first time around, but now it's just old news I don't care to revisit. I don't think I could even accurately compare the show to the trial it's based on because I just didn't follow it that closely. That said, Tina Fey's Marcia Clark on The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt was fantastic.
 

liaerfbv

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monarch64|1460410843|4018072 said:
That said, Tina Fey's Marcia Clark on The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt was fantastic.
I did not get that reference when we watched Kimmy Schmidt because I had never even seen Marcia Clark before this weekend. I said to DH, wow that looks like Tina Fey when she was prosecuting the Reverend. He was utterly horrified and asked me if I'd been living under a rock. Apparently I had been! :lol:
 

azstonie

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I have trouble with the Ron Goldman part---he was in excellent shape, young, and a black belt. He put up a huge fight for his life.

OJ? A broken down arthritic ex-NFL star who played social golf at that point. How could he have prevailed over an extended struggle with Goldman? And with no marks on him. I just cannot figure that part out.

If his adult son took Goldman on, that would make sense to me. Maybe they went there together? Give Nicole a talking to and things went sideways fast and then Goldman shows up? Or they get there and see Goldman and Nicole in the entryway to her condo and make assumptions and go homicidal? Sometimes people will do terrible things to avoid losing face? Or if they have backup?
 

MissGotRocks

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I watched all ten episodes. I remember the time and the trial well but seeing it played out on a screen helped to put the locations and evidence in visual perspective. You can google the episodes for some fact checking; I am quite sure there was drama added but I think a lot of the material was actually factual. On the heels of the Rodney King beating, it became more of a trial about race than the murders of two people. Johnny Cochran was brilliant in his manipulation of the jury and the public at large. Sadly, it created a huge miscarriage of justice for those two people and their families. DNA science was new and the facts were boring - until you realized the chances of the blood evidence being supplied by anyone except the victims and OJ. In view of that, in my opinion, you would have had to make up your mind that you just didn't believe he did it or you bought into the whole LAPD was corrupt - particularly in race relations. Common sense would tell you that the whole department could not have been corrupt or that the entire department wouldn't have bought into such a large cover up of evidence.

I will always and forever wonder how it all went down though. I can only assume that he was attacking Nicole when Ron Goldman wandered upon the scene. I don't think he could have taken both of them on at once as successfully as he did. Even if he didn't suspect Ron as being Nicole's romantic visitor, I can only assume he had to kill him too for what he had witnessed. I also feel that he was probably genuinely sorry for what had happened after the fact; I think I would have been more horrified to realize what a monster I could be under the right circumstances.

I saw Marcia Clark interviewed on the today show recently and she was asked about his 'justice' now that he was serving a prison term for an unrelated issue. She said that he did receive justice for the armed robbery offense that he had committed but that had nothing to do with the miscarriage of justice that occurred surrounding the murder trial. I think some people feel satisfied that he is in prison for whatever reason; however, I thought her statement was absolutely correct. Being imprisoned for a different offense truly offers no justice for the two murders.
 

packrat

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Rage and adrenaline can do amazing things to a persons body. So yeah, it is feasible that no matter how good a shape you are in, something could happen. It takes one second, less than one second, for tables to turn. I've never heard talk of the son doing it in all the years since it happened. I graduated high school in 93 so I remember it being everywhere. You about couldn't get away from it.

I also remember on SNL, Norm McDonald doing the news and he would stop and there would be a picture of OJ and Norm would say "and the manhunt continues..." Or "and the search continues..." Or whatever he said...I died laughing everytime.
 

liaerfbv

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I've done some reading the past few days, and I definitely 100% agree that I think OJ is guilty. From everything I've read, the show is scarily accurate. They consolidated a few events and skipped over a few things (Kato namely), but overall very true to life.

The main question I still find unanswered is when Cochran goes to NC to try to get a subpoena for the Fuhrman tapes, the show has he and his associate lawyer at what looks like a courthouse reading transcripts of the tapes - but where did those transcripts come from? Generally transcripts are made when something is entered into evidence at trial, but the tapes weren't involved in any court proceedings prior to that as far as I can tell. It's just not clear to me how he knew what was on the tapes before the subpoena was granted on appeal.

ETA: Missy, that timeline you posted is just so sad. She knew he was going to kill her, and the system failed her. Seeing it all laid out like that chronologically is stomach churning.
 

missy

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liaerfbv said:
I've done some reading the past few days, and I definitely 100% agree that I think OJ is guilty. From everything I've read, the show is scarily accurate. They consolidated a few events and skipped over a few things (Kato namely), but overall very true to life.

The main question I still find unanswered is when Cochran goes to NC to try to get a subpoena for the Fuhrman tapes, the show has he and his associate lawyer at what looks like a courthouse reading transcripts of the tapes - but where did those transcripts come from? Generally transcripts are made when something is entered into evidence at trial, but the tapes weren't involved in any court proceedings prior to that as far as I can tell. It's just not clear to me how he knew what was on the tapes before the subpoena was granted on appeal.

ETA: Missy, that timeline you posted is just so sad. She knew he was going to kill her, and the system failed her. Seeing it all laid out like that chronologically is stomach churning.

I know. So sad. Such a tragedy. :(
The American justice system does not protect battered/abused women/people until it is too late. You have to wait till something awful happens to prove you need appropriate protection. A broken system before during and after. :cry:
 

partgypsy

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azstonie|1460418771|4018107 said:
I have trouble with the Ron Goldman part---he was in excellent shape, young, and a black belt. He put up a huge fight for his life.

OJ? A broken down arthritic ex-NFL star who played social golf at that point. How could he have prevailed over an extended struggle with Goldman? And with no marks on him. I just cannot figure that part out.

If his adult son took Goldman on, that would make sense to me. Maybe they went there together? Give Nicole a talking to and things went sideways fast and then Goldman shows up? Or they get there and see Goldman and Nicole in the entryway to her condo and make assumptions and go homicidal? Sometimes people will do terrible things to avoid losing face? Or if they have backup?
Even at 46, Simpson was an ex professional athlete, an incredible athlete who was used to working under pressure and through pain to get the job done. You are talking about someone in a rage with a knife surprising an unarmed person. I don't find it hard to believe. Simpson did get a cut on his hand. Also the prosecution felt that Ron walked in after Nicole was attacked so he wasn't necessarily fighting 2 people at a time. He taped an exercise video 3 months before where he was doing things like pushups. His lower body wasn't great (bad knees) but still very strong upper body strength.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/18/us/prosecutors-play-simpson-exercise-tape-seeking-to-show-his-physical-ability.html
 

MissGotRocks

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part gypsy|1460580916|4018948 said:
azstonie|1460418771|4018107 said:
I have trouble with the Ron Goldman part---he was in excellent shape, young, and a black belt. He put up a huge fight for his life.

OJ? A broken down arthritic ex-NFL star who played social golf at that point. How could he have prevailed over an extended struggle with Goldman? And with no marks on him. I just cannot figure that part out.

If his adult son took Goldman on, that would make sense to me. Maybe they went there together? Give Nicole a talking to and things went sideways fast and then Goldman shows up? Or they get there and see Goldman and Nicole in the entryway to her condo and make assumptions and go homicidal? Sometimes people will do terrible things to avoid losing face? Or if they have backup?
Even at 46, Simpson was an ex professional athlete, an incredible athlete who was used to working under pressure and through pain to get the job done. You are talking about someone in a rage with a knife surprising an unarmed person. I don't find it hard to believe. Simpson did get a cut on his hand. Also the prosecution felt that Ron walked in after Nicole was attacked so he wasn't necessarily fighting 2 people at a time. He taped an exercise video 3 months before where he was doing things like pushups. His lower body wasn't great (bad knees) but still very strong upper body strength.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/18/us/prosecutors-play-simpson-exercise-tape-seeking-to-show-his-physical-ability.html
I totally agree with this assessment. OJ had a knife and a deep rage; Ron Goldman did not. I have never believed that he took them both on at once either so it is entirely possible that he killed each of them one on one. He clearly had the advantage over Nicole and Ron had to have been taken by complete surprise when he arrived there. His son had no reason to want to kill Nicole and I seriously doubt that OJ would have involved him in this. He said he would spend his life trying to find the killers when he was released from jail after the trial. He spent his days on the golf course and his nights in the clubs. There was no one to look for and he knew it!
 

luv2sparkle

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I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
 

liaerfbv

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luv2sparkle|1460593713|4019039 said:
I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
That's a great point. They really did portray him as totally out of touch with the world. DH said it best -- "simple." Like particularly after he's been acquitted and he's home and doesn't understand why the people are protesting outside his house and his friends aren't visiting him, he's just totally confused. It wouldn't surprise me if he had CTE and that has contributed to his decline in judgment over the years. To be clear, I am NOT justifying any of his actions, I'm just wondering if has had any effect.

I also feel terrible for the Goldmans. I hate that OJ moved to Florida to shelter his assets. Living here, I love our broad creditor protections, homestead rights, and no state income tax, but it drives me crazy when criminals take advantage of it. There's no way to avoid it, I know.
 

MissGotRocks

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luv2sparkle|1460593713|4019039 said:
I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
The son that is being referred to is Jason - a son from a previous marriage - not the son he had with Nicole. He was a young man at the time of the murders. I still absolutely do not believe that he had anything to do with the murders.
 

MissGotRocks

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liaerfbv|1460594453|4019045 said:
luv2sparkle|1460593713|4019039 said:
I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
That's a great point. They really did portray him as totally out of touch with the world. DH said it best -- "simple." Like particularly after he's been acquitted and he's home and doesn't understand why the people are protesting outside his house and his friends aren't visiting him, he's just totally confused. It wouldn't surprise me if he had CTE and that has contributed to his decline in judgment over the years. To be clear, I am NOT justifying any of his actions, I'm just wondering if has had any effect.

I also feel terrible for the Goldmans. I hate that OJ moved to Florida to shelter his assets. Living here, I love our broad creditor protections, homestead rights, and no state income tax, but it drives me crazy when criminals take advantage of it. There's no way to avoid it, I know.
I personally think that he had almost convinced himself that he didn't do it - in a rational frame of mind I don't think even he believed himself capable of it. However, deep down inside he did know what he had done. I think the confusion came from the fact that even though he had been found not guilty, there were people - including friends - that treated him as if he were. I think he thought once the trial was over the whole thing was done and life should just go back to normal - sans Nicole. He quickly realized that wasn't going to happen. I wonder if he moved to Florida not only for the financial gain but to escape his old life in California. He was clearly not going to be accepted and treated the way he once was and with an ego as large as his, that just would not have been acceptable to him.
 

luv2sparkle

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MissGotRocks|1460594817|4019049 said:
luv2sparkle|1460593713|4019039 said:
I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
The son that is being referred to is Jason - a son from a previous marriage - not the son he had with Nicole. He was a young man at the time of the murders. I still absolutely do not believe that he had anything to do with the murders.

Well, that makes sense. I didn't even know he had another son. That is really a stretch. What motive would he have for killing those two people. OJ and Nicole were already divorced.

My DH was doing a paramedic rotation in Buena Park at the time of the bronco chase. They saw it on tv and stepped outside just in time to see the bronco go past on the freeway. People were out with signs screaming. Pretty crazy.
 

Dancing Fire

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Laila619|1460387214|4017916 said:
I was 12 or 13 when the trial was going on, so I didn't remember a whole lot, but it really is shocking to me that he was found not guilty when there was SO MUCH evidence that shows he did it. I don't think some jurors really comprehend what "reasonable doubt" really means.
You make me feel so old... ;(
 

MissGotRocks

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luv2sparkle|1460689306|4019523 said:
MissGotRocks|1460594817|4019049 said:
luv2sparkle|1460593713|4019039 said:
I watched the whole series, and I felt it was pretty accurate. OJ's son was a small child at the time so there is no way he could have committed that crime and just about take his mother's head off. He wasn't tall enough or strong enough to kill two people.

I learned a few things that I missed from the endless hours of coverage. I am so glad he is in jail. At the time, I don't think that I connected this trial to the outrage over the Rodney King trial. To me, as a white woman, I saw them separately. I also didn't realize the make-up of the jury. I just never paid attention to that part I guess. There were a lot of mistakes made in hindsight but they all did their best, on both sides.

I do think the mini series portrayed OJ as a idiot. Now I wonder how much brain injury from all the years of playing football contributed. No one knew about that then.

I still feel bad for the Goldman family. They were bystanders in the OJ wife abuse scandal part, and they paid a heavy price.
The son that is being referred to is Jason - a son from a previous marriage - not the son he had with Nicole. He was a young man at the time of the murders. I still absolutely do not believe that he had anything to do with the murders.

Well, that makes sense. I didn't even know he had another son. That is really a stretch. What motive would he have for killing those two people. OJ and Nicole were already divorced.

My DH was doing a paramedic rotation in Buena Park at the time of the bronco chase. They saw it on tv and stepped outside just in time to see the bronco go past on the freeway. People were out with signs screaming. Pretty crazy.
And there is a show coming out next year - I thinking Martin Sheen is narrating - which explores this notion that his older son Jason was the murderer. When Marcia Clark was recently interviewed regarding this series, she said theory was complete hogwash based on the evidence in the case. I agree completely with you though - he simply had no motive. It has been said that Jason really loved Nicole as a stepmother and would have simply had no reason to kill her and surely not for his Dad.
 
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