shape
carat
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Am I way in over my head....someone please help!

dosorio0811

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
4
So, I've recently started to search for an engagement ring for my girlfriend of 14yrs...I know, I know, what took me so long. Well, truth is we started very young and thank goodness we've survived the ups and downs. We also have two kids together and now I feel it is way past due....So, I found a GIA certified diamond and I was very impressed. I also was able to get an eternity wedding band along with it. In total the set, including the loose diamond is approx. 4 to 4.25 carats in total weight. The jeweler is asking 15,900. My initial spending limit was 10K - 12k is the a good deal. The diamond specs are below:

Laser Inscripted
Square Modified Brilliant

Measurements 6.38 x 6.34 x 4.05mm
Carat Weight 1.52
Color Grade E
Clarity Grade SI1
Polish Excellent
Symmetry - Very Good
Fluorescence - None
Table 71%
Depth 73.4%

The jeweler promised that all stones on both rings will be of the same grade. So, am I way in over my head??

The only better deal I found was 12,500 same package as above but loose diamond was Color F, Clarity SI2

Should I pay the difference for the more expensive stone? In other words is the price differential justified by the difference in grades between the two diamonds?
 
Difficult to tell, especially since you give no specs on the other diamond. Moreover, the best way to see if the diamonds are true performers is to see light performance imaging on the stone, in this case an ASET. It tells you how much light is returned to your eyes; how bright the stone is, if you will.

Check out ideal-scope.com for more info on ASETS. whiteflash.com has ideal cut princess stones. Check those out.
 
I don't know about the rest of the specs (more experienced PS'ers will need to chime in)...

But as for color...
I, personally, would not spend $3000 more for an E rather than an F. You will not be able to tell the difference unless you were in very specific conditions and had the stones side-by-side. (not sure about the SI1 vs SI2. I would choose whichever one is eye-clean. I don't care about inclusions as long as I can't see them with the naked eye.) I read a great article once about not spending thousands more for "quality" that you cannot see. But not everyone agrees with this.

I just bought a J SI1 stone and I LOVE it! You may get more bang for your buck if you look at G's through I's, and not sacrifice cut or clarity.

Just a suggestion.

Good luck!! I hope you find the perfect ring that knocks her socks off!!
 
Thank you both so much. Wish I had the second diamond's specs but unfortunately I do not. I was talking to the jeweler about the color grade and he said it won't save me much assuming I keep the same grade and carat size. However, if I lower both the clarity and color grade then there would be about a 3,000 difference for a stone F color SI2 clarity. I like the point you made about looking for an "eye clean" diamond. I think I might just tell him to show me some so that I can compare them and look for something that is eye clean. If I happen to find one, I may save some money and still have a beautiful diamond ring.

This has been very stressful and I just really want to get the best possible ring for her as she truly deserves it, but of course I don't want to get suckered either. I've been toggling thoughts ever since and I just can't make up my mind. I truly feel that maybe 16,000 is a bit over the top? Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks again!
 
im not an expert by any means, but i agree with what everyone else is saying. i am a really OCD person so i picked a higher clarity bc of my ability to obsess over tiny things haha but not everyone is that way. and when a stone is eye clean i think there is no reason to spend thousands more for another stone. the more i learn the more i notice how important cut is and i see many people here agree. cut is hst really makes the diamond shine, literally. the one you listed here sounds lovely and im pretty sure any girl would swoon over that carat weight..i know i would! good luck!
 
There is definitely a diff between D and F but between E and F, at a 3K cost, if all things are equal and both eye clean, I'd go for the F.
 
It's difficult to comment on the diamond without more information. Do you have magnified images of the stone? Can you get ASET images? It's impossible to purchase fancy cut stones based on the numbers alone, of course you have your eyes to help you judge since you are buying in person, so I'd be sure to compare this stone side by side with many others in many many different lighting environments. It's impossible to judge light performance under the bright jewelry store lights, you need to see the stone outside in sunlight, outside on an overcast day, outback in their office lighting, in the middle of the jewelry store, by a window. Observe the stone from side to side, does it stay bright or do you notice dark areas? If you cant get ASET images you should place the stone on a red background and see if you can see any red through the stone, this will help you identify if there is any leakage.

as far as color....of course there are difference between DEF, that's why there are different color grades, but how able you are to differentiate those differences once set, will determine if a particular color grade is worth $3k more to you than another would be. Me....I wouldn't pay the premium for a colorless stone because once the diamond is set, I can't see the difference between a G and an E, so I'd rather spend the extra money on either increasing the size of the stone or the setting.
 
While you are researching diamonds, I think only AGS grades princess cut diamonds for light performance. GIA does not. Cut is what gives diamonds their sparkle or light return. I believe White Flash, Brian Gavin Diamonds,High Performance Diamonds carry these. I have seen a few large but poorly cut princess diamonds, high color and high price tags, but not really worth it in my opinion. If I was shopping for a princess, I would look for ASET and idealscope images from the vendors. I would also start looking at settings at different vendors. Then look for an appraiser and jewelry insurance. Hope this helps!
 
Thank you all once again for all of your helpful comments and suggestions. I will surely keep these in mind when finally deciding on a diamond. I already have the setting I want. Its halo type and I believe they called it the Harry Winston collections

My problem is, I think it was mentioned above, is that GIA does not grade the cut of princess diamonds. Thus, I'm not sure what I really should be looking for in a diamond to determine the cut quality. If this is what gives the diamond its shine then I am assuming this is a very important aspect to the diamond. What tips can anyone give that would help me identify a better cut diamond over another one? I know the light aspect is one but are there any other physical qualities that I can look out for that would help me determine a better cut diamond....

I am so glad I posted my question on this forum as many of you have been very helpful. I should have done this some time ago. Again, any further tips, info or suggestions are welcomed. I will definitely keep you guys posted for anyone that is interested.
 
Are you totally invested in working with this jeweler because I know we would be happy to help find you something in your budget from one of the preferred PS vendors.
 
dosorio0811|1338485570|3206818 said:
My problem is, I think it was mentioned above, is that GIA does not grade the cut of princess diamonds. Thus, I'm not sure what I really should be looking for in a diamond to determine the cut quality. If this is what gives the diamond its shine then I am assuming this is a very important aspect to the diamond. What tips can anyone give that would help me identify a better cut diamond over another one? I know the light aspect is one but are there any other physical qualities that I can look out for that would help me determine a better cut diamond....

Ask this jeweler to pull an AGS-graded princess that gets a 0 (ideal) for light performance. That's what you're looking for. Ideally, place this next to the stones you are considering. That will give you an ideal of how your stone should perform.

If you are interested in ideal-cut princesses, there are online vendors that offer AGS-graded square stones for you to consider. Also, where are you located? You might be able to visit these places in person:
AGS princesses here: www.whiteflash.com
AGS princesses - http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamondsearch/princess
"Quadex" square stone, AGS-certified - http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-quadex/
AGS princess (this site has a mix of AGS and GIA princesses) - http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8908/
"Princess of hearts" (many are AGS) - http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?optSym=1024&inHouse=3&resultsColumns=268435535

When considering square stones, pay less attention to carat weight - you need to look at the dimensions in millimeters to tell you if a stone is comparable in size. If your girlfriend is okay with a slightly rectangular cut, you can often get a lower carat weight that has one large side, which gives a lot of finger presence. An oval tends to look larger on the hand than the same carat size round stone, for example, even where the "short side" of the oval is smaller than the diameter of the round, because the "long side" of the oval is so much larger. Transferring this principle to squarish stones, this 1 ct Quadex has a 6.72 side and a 5.75 side, and would likely "read" slightly larger than the stone you posted, because of the long side. http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.081-g-vs2-quadex-diamond-ags-104052455039

Now I would, and did, prioritize cut above color and clarity. I have an ideal-cut round that is H SI1. Because it gathers up and returns nearly all light that enters the diamond, it's basically a flashlight. That light return means that it faces up very white. I'd certainly go down to H, and maybe lower if your girlfriend is consulted about her preferences.

By way of comparison to the stone you've posted, here's a 1.5 H VS1 that is selling for just over $12k with Pricescope discount and wire payment http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2774480.htm We'd need to know more about the costs of the setting and wedding band to get any sense of whether you could put together that package online for less. But I'd suspect that the stone you're looking at is probably not ideal cut, just because so few stones are.

As far as how much to spend, you should be comfortable with your budget. The difference between, say, a 1.2 carat princess and a 1.5 princess is 1/2 mm or less, but maybe $4k for the same specs (cut, color & clarity). Pull out a ruler. The tiny lines between each centimeter are millimeters. Take half of one of those. It is possible to see a difference if you had the stones next to each other, but it's pretty minimal.

I'm okay with a less than D-flawless diamond for a couple of reasons, now that I'm older - my eyesight isn't as great as it used to be, and I'm well aware that compromises are necessary (which I didn't know so much when I was 20, kwim?). Most people compromise on cut, which is the one thing you should prioritize above all others.
 
I do encourage you to buy only AGS0 graded princess cuts and to drop color to about G to save yourself some money.
 
if you did want to spend 18k on a stone...here is an AGS ideal cut princess cut diamond that is STUNNING that you could put in a simple solitaire setting. GOG has a bunch of really beautiful settings but also so does JBEG http://www.jewelsbyericagrace.com/semimounts


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9120/



Are you dead set on a princess cut diamond? I would check out a bunch of different places to see what catches your eye. There are some beautiful estate/vintage pieces that you could get with that budget


www.jewelsbyericagrace.com

also check out www.goodoldgold.com

Also if your interested in a great deal on a RB (2 carats no less!) there is a lady on here who bought her ring and didn't get get to wear it and it's STUNNING that you could buy (from a great vendor on here no less-threads and everything on it)

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/what-to-do-with-engagement-ring-t176030.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/what-to-do-with-engagement-ring-t176030.html[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bgd-glamour-shots-need-some-reassurance.174290/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bgd-glamour-shots-need-some-reassurance.174290/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/blew-the-budget-and-pulled-the-trigger-settings-input.173043/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/blew-the-budget-and-pulled-the-trigger-settings-input.173043/[/URL]

There is also a gentleman selling a AVC (check out GOG for videos since he didn't post very good pictures)
http://www.diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/27447/113ct-AVC-in-Plat-Tacori-2620RDMP-Size-75.html
 
milton333|1338490450|3206854 said:
When considering square stones, pay less attention to carat weight - you need to look at the dimensions in millimeters to tell you if a stone is comparable in size. If your girlfriend is okay with a slightly rectangular cut, you can often get a lower carat weight that has one large side, which gives a lot of finger presence. An oval tends to look larger on the hand than the same carat size round stone, for example, even where the "short side" of the oval is smaller than the diameter of the round, because the "long side" of the oval is so much larger. Transferring this principle to squarish stones, this 1 ct Quadex has a 6.72 side and a 5.75 side, and would likely "read" slightly larger than the stone you posted, because of the long side.

Quadex are confusing because the 6.72 is the diagonal measurement - equivalent to measuring a round across one side. the 5.75 measurement is the actual side. I have a 5.5 POH (similar to Quadex) and it looks much larger than a 5.5 since the diagonal measurement is 6mm.

If you're only interested in Princesses, dosorio0811 - make sure an get an ASET of the diamond and that you know how to read it. If you can't get one, only buy from one of the PS approved vendors and post up the ASET for the folks here to approve. if you want to get her the best possible diamond, you need to know the true light performance of that diamond. Jewelry lights are tricky and you want to make sure that your diamond appears sparkliest across all lighting conditions. I lived with my stone unset for a week or so to make sure I was happy with it - it's alotta money and I wanted to be 100% sure!
 
Thanks everyone again for all of the helpful information. I will look into the links provided and also the websites mentioned. Does anyone know where I can get ASET images done in nyc. The jeweler offered to take me to a lab and get it in inspected, any suggestions?

At the end of the day I would like a stone that sparkles. A ring my girlfriend would die for.
 
ID Jewelers does ASETs in nyc. But if I was looking for a princess cut and lived in the nyc area I would make a trip into Massapequa and visit Good Old Gold. They have all the technologies needed to make a well informed decision. If you make the trip you should call them ahead of time to let them know that you are coming and what your interested in, then they can call in some stones for you to consider.

http://goodoldgold.com/ContactUs/

https://www.idjewelryonline.com/contact_id.php?osCsid=le1rpu46k8pnrn02rps997j8i4
 
Well if you are interested in maximum sparkle, I would make an appointment with Jon at GOG. He can show you all the many different qualities of ANY diamond shape and answer all your questions. Just for the education and time saved it would be worth it. If Jon does not have exactly have the diamond you are looking for in his inventory, he can call in a few. Plus they carry many different settings.Very lucky that you live close enough to do this in person. Should be lots of fun and take away being stressed out. 8-)
 
Here is a link to Jon at GOG youtube channel. You can check it out yourself but I'll also link to the princess cuts

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiamondInfoMan?ob=0

I've bought 2 stones from Jon myself and I wouldn't have it any other way. The ring on the first link (AVC with french cut side stones) is one setting they custom made. They will even cut stones custom as well!

Here is the princess cut search on his channel. I highly recommend the comparison videos :)

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiamondInfoMan/videos?query=princess
 
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