Am I Being Taken Advantage Of?

[nconkl1]

My girlfriend and I have been looking for an engagement ring together. Our budget is around $4,000-$4,200 for the diamond (don't worry about the setting, it's not important for this thread).

We live in Tampa, Florida and went to Ackerman Jewelers down here. They were very friendly and accommodating and showed us two different diamonds that met our budget and were of good quality (.62 F VS1 round and .72 H SI1 round). The former was $3,995 and the latter was $3,595. We decided we wanted to go with the .62 because it was superior in color and clarity ratings (makes sense).

My girlfriend is quite studious and researched what the price of a diamond of those specifications should be using BlueNile James Allen. The price that came up was A LOT lower than what the price of the diamond was at the store and that begs the question, are we being taken advantage of? The store is a family owned jewelry store that has been there for over 30 years and is the only store in the United States so I can understand that the owners go out and buy the diamonds themselves and need to mark them up some to make a profit, but is this more than what it should be?

I really hope this all makes sense and could really use someone from the industry to reply here. Or at least someone with a few years experience working at a family owned jeweler. Not to say nobody can reply, but those are the preferred people I'd like to hear from. A diamond is a huge investment and we both want to be sure that we're getting the best diamond for the price.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Is the stone graded by GIA or AGSL?

 

[nconkl1]

They are both GIA graded.

 

[Gypsy]

Can you get us the lab report numbers? A lot of pricing depends on cut and other qualities that are hard to gauge by folks newer to the diamond world.

If you can call them and ask for the GIA and we can tell you how fair the pricing is. They should give those to you with no issue.

But we do need to know more than just carat and color and clarity. There is a LOT of variation in pricing based on factors other than those.

 

[c-k]

You can't compare any diamond by using only the color, clarity and carat.

Would have to know much more information on the diamond. The lab grading report will give additional information and even then it does not tell everything, then there is a difference is grading labs. Also needed would be Idealscope images, maybe ASET image, maybe Sarin reports etc.

You need to compare apples to apples to know.

 

[nconkl1]

Can you get us the lab report numbers? A lot of pricing depends on cut and other qualities that are hard to gauge by folks newer to the diamond world.

If you can call them and ask for the GIA and we can tell you how fair the pricing is. They should give those to you with no issue.

But we do need to know more than just carat and color and clarity. There is a LOT of variation in pricing based on factors other than those.

Well wow. I had no idea! I think we're going back this weekend so she can be absolutely sure on the band and diamond before I go buy anything. I'll definitely get that lab report. It's not rude to ask for the lab report is it? I don't want to come off like that guy.

 

[Gypsy]

Can you get us the lab report numbers? A lot of pricing depends on cut and other qualities that are hard to gauge by folks newer to the diamond world.

If you can call them and ask for the GIA and we can tell you how fair the pricing is. They should give those to you with no issue.

But we do need to know more than just carat and color and clarity. There is a LOT of variation in pricing based on factors other than those.

Well wow. I had no idea! I think we're going back this weekend so she can be absolutely sure on the band and diamond before I go buy anything. I'll definitely get that lab report. It's not rude to ask for the lab report is it? I don't want to come off like that guy.

That guy is spending 4k. No it's not rude. It's smart. And very common. They aren't proprietary or anything.

And I would call TOMORROW and ask for the report numbers-- they can pull them in a few minutes for you. Not just before you buy. You want time to do research? Then you need to get the information as soon as you can.

If they ask why, just say that you want to look it up on the GIA site as you have a friend that is good with jewelry and you want a second set of eyes on it.

A good jeweler will have no issue with that. If they do have an issue with it... then we're back in "am I being taken advantage of" territory.

 

[nconkl1]

Can you get us the lab report numbers? A lot of pricing depends on cut and other qualities that are hard to gauge by folks newer to the diamond world.

If you can call them and ask for the GIA and we can tell you how fair the pricing is. They should give those to you with no issue.

But we do need to know more than just carat and color and clarity. There is a LOT of variation in pricing based on factors other than those.

Well wow. I had no idea! I think we're going back this weekend so she can be absolutely sure on the band and diamond before I go buy anything. I'll definitely get that lab report. It's not rude to ask for the lab report is it? I don't want to come off like that guy.

That guy is spending 4k. No it's not rude. It's smart. And very common. They aren't proprietary or anything.

And I would call TOMORROW and ask for the report numbers-- they can pull them in a few minutes for you. Not just before you buy. You want time to do research? Then you need to get the information as soon as you can.

If they ask why, just say that you want to look it up on the GIA site as you have a friend that is good with jewelry and you want a second set of eyes on it.

A good jeweler will have no issue with that. If they do have an issue with it... then we're back in "am I being taken advantage of" territory.

Thank you for being honest with me. Can I ask what you do for a living/how you know so much? Just curious.

 

[heididdl]

Can you get us the lab report numbers? A lot of pricing depends on cut and other qualities that are hard to gauge by folks newer to the diamond world.

If you can call them and ask for the GIA and we can tell you how fair the pricing is. They should give those to you with no issue.

But we do need to know more than just carat and color and clarity. There is a LOT of variation in pricing based on factors other than those.

Well wow. I had no idea! I think we're going back this weekend so she can be absolutely sure on the band and diamond before I go buy anything. I'll definitely get that lab report. It's not rude to ask for the lab report is it? I don't want to come off like that guy.

Your not that guy an informed consumer is the best consumer..for an ideal cut stone you should look at the certification. AGS should be o and GIA here is the stats for ideal cut

Table 54-58
depth 60-62.3
crown angle 34-35 15.3%
pavilion angle 40.6-41
is there floresence or no fluorescence.

If don't feel comfortable coming back to ask PS then at least you have these numbers with you. When I bought my first pair of studs many many years ago they were suppose to be G color si1 clarity but they had no fire , no flash they were flat. Yes the were sparkly in the jewelry store or if the light directly hit them but not otherwise. An ideal cut stone is what it is all about let that puppy shine all the time.

 

[SB621]

In general I think most B&M stores are more expensive because they need to pay for their overhead, store rent, utilies, salaries for employees etc. I dont' think you are being taken advantage of just the store needs to cover the costs of the diamond plus all their expenses. Drop shippers typically have less expenses so most of the time/ sometimes their pricing is better. Just depends on what you are looking at. As Gypsy already mentioned it would help to get the GIA number and yes I would just call for it. Most people do. You can look up the report online at www.gia.edu

 

[nconkl1]

In general I think most B&M stores are more expensive because they need to pay for their overhead, store rent, utilies, salaries for employees etc. I dont' think you are being taken advantage of just the store needs to cover the costs of the diamond plus all their expenses. Drop shippers typically have less expenses so most of the time/ sometimes their pricing is better. Just depends on what you are looking at. As Gypsy already mentioned it would help to get the GIA number and yes I would just call for it. Most people do. You can look up the report online at www.gia.edu

So this is to you and Gypsy. I just call and ask for the "GIA number"? Or do I call and ask for the "lab report"?

Thanks so much for all the help. It means a lot to me that I get something she will be happy with forever. The store has some really great perks such as not having to double if you upgrade the stone, among a few others that I can't remember lol.

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you for being honest with me. Can I ask what you do for a living/how you know so much? Just curious.

First time I've been asked that.

I've been a prosumer (it's term coined here professional consumer advocate is what its supposed to mean, but we don't, any of us get paid in any way so the 'professional' part is a bit weird) on these boards since 2005. Nearly 9 years now (wow, I just added that up, holy cow!)

I'm a hobbyist. And my hobby is this. Helping people find engagement rings and diamonds. As for how I know so much-- we have a lot of professionals on these boards (ones that are in the trade) and they've basically trained us through the years by providing us with knowledge and information and tools. And we train each other and ... well, you stay on here long enough you know more than most sales people in the majority of jewelry stores (most of whom are very poorly trained).

Plus those of us who are really avid jewelry junkies have a lot of experience because well... we buy a lot of jewelry ourselves .

 

[Gypsy]

So this is to you and Gypsy. I just call and ask for the "GIA number"? Or do I call and ask for the "lab report"?

Thanks so much for all the help. It means a lot to me that I get something she will be happy with forever. The store has some really great perks such as not having to double if you upgrade the stone, among a few others that I can't remember lol.

We have a lot of vendors that offer similar perks and they are great.

As for what you ask for "I'd like the GIA report number for the stones I was looking at please" is how I would ask.

 

[nconkl1]

So this is to you and Gypsy. I just call and ask for the "GIA number"? Or do I call and ask for the "lab report"?

Thanks so much for all the help. It means a lot to me that I get something she will be happy with forever. The store has some really great perks such as not having to double if you upgrade the stone, among a few others that I can't remember lol.

We have a lot of vendors that offer similar perks and they are great.

As for what you ask for "I'd like the GIA report number for the stones I was looking at please" is how I would ask.

Lol, it's weird I had to ask that question but I know next to nothing about diamonds and certifications and reports and all that jazz. My girlfriend is the one who's done all the research. I've kinda' just soaked it up through osmosis . Thank you for all your help. I'll call them tomorrow while I'm at work. They were supposed to call today with a quote for the diamond and setting we love but they did not. So I'll call and get that too .

And that is a long time to be on any board! It's great that there's so many knowledgeable people here to help the newbies out who know nothing...like myself.

 

[GeorgeStevens]

A quick check suggests you're paying about double the price for that particular diamond that the retailer probably paid. That's about usual for a B&M retailer. The online vendors like BN have typical markups in the 18-25% range.

The more you know, the better a deal you'll be able to get. Most people know next to nothing about diamonds and hence overpay and buy crummy stones. Be patient and take your time. It's OK to comparison shop, ask for certifications, make offers below asking price, etc., as long as it's done respectfully and from a position of knowledge.

 

[Gypsy]

A quick check suggests you're paying about double the price for that particular diamond that the retailer probably paid. That's about usual for a B&M retailer. The online vendors like BN have typical markups in the 18-25% range.

Haven't we talked about your faulty calculations for these numbers you keep posting as if they are fact? Please stop. Your posts are misleading.

 

[Tekate]

Gypsy: that was a great post, again I learned a LOT!

thanks.

Thank you for being honest with me. Can I ask what you do for a living/how you know so much? Just curious.

First time I've been asked that.

I've been a prosumer (it's term coined here professional consumer advocate is what its supposed to mean, but we don't, any of us get paid in any way so the 'professional' part is a bit weird) on these boards since 2005. Nearly 9 years now (wow, I just added that up, holy cow!)

I'm a hobbyist. And my hobby is this. Helping people find engagement rings and diamonds. As for how I know so much-- we have a lot of professionals on these boards (ones that are in the trade) and they've basically trained us through the years by providing us with knowledge and information and tools. And we train each other and ... well, you stay on here long enough you know more than most sales people in the majority of jewelry stores (most of whom are very poorly trained).

Plus those of us who are really avid jewelry junkies have a lot of experience because well... we buy a lot of jewelry ourselves .

 

[nconkl1]

So my girlfriend and I decided not to call today because we still are saving up and it would be pointless to call and get the report now when most likely our budget will change due to my tax return. Also depends on how much I save per month (I just got a new job out of college after moving down to Florida). Some months I'll save more, some I may save less than projected. So we gotta see when it comes closer. I'll remember this thread though and post the report when I get it.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Gypsy]

I think saving up is a great idea.

Get a set budget. Then come back and we'll help you maximize it.

We're good with settings too. So we're happy to help with those as well.

 

[heididdl]

I was thinking about "HOW TO ASK FOR THE CERTIFCATE" When I was looking at my diamond studs in a B&M before I bought them . I had been in there no less then 6 times to try them on look at them. The last time I asked for all the specifics and they said they were EGL certified I just flat out said oh Can I see the certificates I want to see the specs for the cut.....that's it.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy: that was a great post, again I learned a LOT!

thanks.

I'm so glad! And you are welcome!

 

[GeorgeStevens]

Haven't we talked about your faulty calculations for these numbers you keep posting as if they are fact? Please stop. Your posts are misleading.

What are you afraid of? I put out figures based on my own research, direct comparisons of diamonds with matching GIA certs between vendors, and Blue Nile's audited financial filings, which are publicly available for all to see. The facts are the facts. And people can interpret them however they want. By the way, my numbers line up quite closely with the same figures on truthaboutdiamonds.com.

I'm not selling anything, but a lot of people on this website are.

 

[nconkl1]

I think saving up is a great idea.

Get a set budget. Then come back and we'll help you maximize it.

We're good with settings too. So we're happy to help with those as well.

Lol, I already know the setting.





It's a Simon G rose gold setting. The price the store we visited told us it was, was $2,860.

 

[GeorgeStevens]

On the topic of "being taken advantage of", just today I got an email from a friend who had bought a fancy yellow from a B&M retailer for her 25th anniversary. Without me saying anything, she had started to realize she had been taken advantage of and now really dislikes the diamond because it makes her feel like she got ripped off. I realize that many folks in the diamond industry prefer their practices and pricing to be as opaque as possible, starting with the long-term contracts in the sightholder system and going all the way to the consumer. Unfortunately that lack of transparency also represents so much that's wrong with the trade and leads to people being upset with their purchases and ultimately spending on luxury goods other than diamonds. Don't be upset when people shine a bit of transparency on an opaque industry; ultimately it is for the better. And don't shoot me, the messenger. After all, gem-quality diamonds have value only because people are willing to buy them.

On a slightly related note, one of the reasons I recommend people watch Sotheby's and Christie's auctions is that they see transparent, real transactions between often-sophisticated arm's-length buyers and sellers in a global market. For anything with a hammer under $100K, subtract about a 7% fee to the seller and 25% to the buyer (the latter being added to hammer) and you understand the economics of both buying and selling and what you can expect to lose if you have to resell, absent any movement in the underlying price of diamonds and precious metals.

 

[Gypsy]

Haven't we talked about your faulty calculations for these numbers you keep posting as if they are fact? Please stop. Your posts are misleading.

What are you afraid of? I put out figures based on my own research, direct comparisons of diamonds with matching GIA certs between vendors, and Blue Nile's audited financial filings, which are publicly available for all to see. The facts are the facts. And people can interpret them however they want. By the way, my numbers line up quite closely with the same figures on truthaboutdiamonds.com.

I'm not selling anything, but a lot of people on this website are.

I'm not selling a thing.

And I'm not afraid of anything.
I don't care what truthaboutdiamonds says. For all I know that could be your site. Anyone can post anything on the internet. That's why we asked for your evidence.

In the very SEC article you linked to, says that Blue Nile has roughly 2/3 of their 2012 in the category of engagement rings (it's on page 51) but they don't say how much of that is diamonds vs. other sorts of components.

You stated that you based your calculations on 90% of their sales being in loose stones. This is not supported at all by the article YOU cited.

We proved your calculations incorrect and you ran off. So... if anyone is afraid, it's not me. Your own transparency falls apart when anyone challenges by asking you to prove it. Because you can't. Your own evidence proved you wrong.

And then you come on here and post the same misinformation.

Facts are facts. But they are subject to misrepresentation and misinterpretation. And that's what you are doing. Maybe not maliciously. Maybe you have a genuine desire to help. But... you aren't helping anyone by posting you opinion and representing it as 'fact' when that opinion has no basis in accurate calculations.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-a-b-m-retailer-significantly-undercut-online-retailers.197909/#post-3604733#p3604733']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-a-b-m-retailer-significantly-undercut-online-retailers.197909/#post-3604733#p3604733[/URL] Here's the old thread.

 

[nconkl1]

Hey all, I'm back. I found this diamond online and was wondering if I could have someone take a look at the report and tell me if the price is fair.

Then my next question is - is it rude to find a diamond online and then go to a jeweler and pick a setting and have them set the diamond in even though its not their diamond?

Thanks for the help!

 

[SB621]

Hey all, I'm back. I found this diamond online and was wondering if I could have someone take a look at the report and tell me if the price is fair.

Then my next question is - is it rude to find a diamond online and then go to a jeweler and pick a setting and have them set the diamond in even though its not their diamond?

Thanks for the help!

I can't comment on the diamond, but many people mix and match vendors with diamonds and settings. You can absolutely buy a diamond online and have a local vendor set it. However you might get a better discount if you do a 1 stop shop sometimes. However with that set I typically mix and match vendors.

 

[MarionC]

Hey all, I'm back. I found this diamond online and was wondering if I could have someone take a look at the report and tell me if the price is fair.

Then my next question is - is it rude to find a diamond online and then go to a jeweler and pick a setting and have them set the diamond in even though its not their diamond?

Thanks for the help!

While waiting for the experts here, one thing you can do is plug the numbers into the HCA tool [it's under TOOLS at the top of the page]
to help determine quality of cut.

...and you can use the diamond search tool to research pricing similar stones. Just plug your CCCC's into the search tool. Your current diamond will show up there too.

edited with more info

 

[PattyCo]

Hi!

I bought my diamond online and had the jeweler set in a setting that they had, so hopfully your jeweler will be willing to do the same. The setting that you picked out is sooooooo beautiful.

I wish you the best,
Warm regards,
PattyCo

 

[nconkl1]

Hi!

I bought my diamond online and had the jeweler set in a setting that they had, so hopfully your jeweler will be willing to do the same. The setting that you picked out is sooooooo beautiful.

I wish you the best,
Warm regards,
PattyCo

Aw, thank you! She picked it out and loves it. We've gone to other jewelers and looked at others and this is the one she absolutely loves so she knows what she's getting lol. I just couldn't leave it to chance and pick something that she'd hate. So I don't mind picking out the ring and stone together as long as the proposal is all mine .

Hey all, I'm back. I found this diamond online and was wondering if I could have someone take a look at the report and tell me if the price is fair.

Then my next question is - is it rude to find a diamond online and then go to a jeweler and pick a setting and have them set the diamond in even though its not their diamond?

Thanks for the help!

While waiting for the experts here, one thing you can do is plug the numbers into the HCA tool [it's under TOOLS at the top of the page]
to help determine quality of cut.

...and you can use the diamond search tool to research pricing similar stones. Just plug your CCCC's into the search tool. Your current diamond will show up there too.

edited with more info

Thanks for the advice. She used diamdb.com to research if its a good cut and everything but I wanted an expert's opinion on whether or not the price is fair from blue nile and if its a good diamond overall.