andrewmcdonald
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3
Hi there
I''ve been very impressed by the quality of discussion and articles on this site, there are obviously some very informed people posting here who are passionate about the little pieces of crushed carbon we call diamonds, and willing to educate anyone who will let them! I have a few questions, which I will post separately, to avoid going off topic in either of them. So without further ado..
I may be in the market for an engagement ring in the next 12 months, so have been doing some research. Whilst I wouldn''t consider myself completely uneducated on this subject, I think this particular piece of jewelry deserves more than a cursory reading!
To sum up, the design of ring that my girlfriend prefers is ''elegant design, subtle, and not what everyone else has''. Without intending to name drop the designs that we have both fallen in love with are the ''Japanese'' stlye flowing rings. (another post to follow on this subject) These generally are aimed at around a 0.5-0.7ct stone, and the design I will most likely get will allow for at most around a 1.25ct stone. This suits my gf, who does not want a (Manhattan style) ''Look At Me'' sized ring on her relatively slim fingers. (US size 5 I think) She would happily go for a 0.7ct, however the actual choice of ring/bands/stone is up to me, and will be a surprise. (as will the timing!)
On to the hard part! As i''ve alluded to above, we both prefer what I''d call ''sparkle'' over size, and the maximum size is limited by the ring. With this in mind, I was thinking of going for a ~1.25ct D, VVS1, VG cut stone. Now, I don''t mind going for IF over VVS1, or Ideal/Signature Ideal (on Blue Nile) over VG cut if this will make a difference to how it looks. To a certain degree I''d quite like the ''purest possible'' stone, but at the end of the day I''m more concerned with how it looks to the naked eye, when walking under the kitchen lights, into a store with nice lighting, sunlight, how it catches her eye when walking down the street, her friends'' comments when seen under the lights at the bar etc. (the sparkle!)
Right, a few questions. I''ll try to keep this short, as it''s already longer than I intended!
1. Cut
Whilst reading the forums, it strikes me the regular posters value cut over the other cs, at least once you''re talking above a certain level of the other 3. Am I right in thinking that this is the best place to go for ''the top'' criteria in order to have the greatest effect on the naked eye?
2. H&A, Eight Star, etc.
My understanding is that a diamond with a sufficiently good cut (e.g. ideal) and negligable inclusions (e.g. VVS1) should refract enough light to 1. sparkle to the naked eye, and 2. exhibit symmetry that creates a typical pattern under a microscope, e.g. the ''hearts or eight star'' patterns. Are the H&A, Eight Star brands simply marketing, or would, say, a H&A VVS1 D Ideal cut be genuinely nicer to the eye than a ''normal'' VVS1 D Ideal cut stone? (or any less sparkly than e.g. a Blue Nile signature ideal, or some other ''top 1% of cut'' diamond)
3. Certifications
I may be opening a can of worms here, but here goes. Until recently I wasn''t aware of AGSL, and thought GIA was the ''standard''. (I believe in the US AGSL is more commonly used than in Europe). I have read elsewhere on this forum a number of (lengthy) posts about GIA reports in 2006, and the controversy there. I was thinking of getting a stone online, or at least purchasing the stone unseen (more on this in another post!), in which case I would expect to see a certificate to 1. ensure the criteria I asked for are indeed satisfied, and 2. to do any further comparisons between 2 stones of the same cs. I was (naively?) hoping an ''ideal cut GIA'' diamond would indeed be ''ideal''. Further to the other posts, it looks like there is quite some variance within the category of ''ideal'', and which motivates comparisons of the actual angles/measurements involved. Blue Nile (sorry for the name dropping!) sets their ''Signature Ideal'' cut as 60.1-61.9% depth and table of 55-57%. Would this be a good sub-range to look for within any ''ideal'' GIA cuts that I find on other sites? I also understand the AGSL reports grade differently - is an AGS0 the creme de la creme, and comparable to e.g. the Signature Ideal, or other such ''top 1%'' of rocks?
4. law of diminishing returns
(please bear with me here!) I imagine the gradings of each of the Cs will be quasi logarithmic, by which I mean given (e.g.) 10 gradings, the gradings from best to worst do not cover 10%, 10%, 10%, .... 10%, but more like 0.001%, 0.01%, 0.1%, 1%, 10%, etc of stones by quantity. This is clearest to see in carat weight, i.e. a 2 carat is rarer/more expensive than two 1 carat stones. However, I imagine it also applies at the top end of the scale in colour, clarity, etc, where upgrading from (say) an F to an E/D or from VVS2 to VVS1/IF has a large effect on the price, but little effect on the noticeable appearance of the stone. (in marked contrast to going from say I1 to SI1, or K to G) Are there ''universally accepted'' levels, e.g. F, VVS2 where subsequent increases fail to be noticeable to the naked eye or even the untrained eye with a scope? (and where any further improvements are simply for the knowledge that you have an XXX stone?)
Right. At the end of the day, I suspect I will wander over to 47th Street (NY) and spend an afternoon comparing stones, as opposed to window shopping and avoiding the bouncers trying to usher me into every store. However, before I venture that far, I thought I''d get some informed advice from yourselves! Apologies for the lengthy post!
Thanks
A.
I''ve been very impressed by the quality of discussion and articles on this site, there are obviously some very informed people posting here who are passionate about the little pieces of crushed carbon we call diamonds, and willing to educate anyone who will let them! I have a few questions, which I will post separately, to avoid going off topic in either of them. So without further ado..
I may be in the market for an engagement ring in the next 12 months, so have been doing some research. Whilst I wouldn''t consider myself completely uneducated on this subject, I think this particular piece of jewelry deserves more than a cursory reading!
To sum up, the design of ring that my girlfriend prefers is ''elegant design, subtle, and not what everyone else has''. Without intending to name drop the designs that we have both fallen in love with are the ''Japanese'' stlye flowing rings. (another post to follow on this subject) These generally are aimed at around a 0.5-0.7ct stone, and the design I will most likely get will allow for at most around a 1.25ct stone. This suits my gf, who does not want a (Manhattan style) ''Look At Me'' sized ring on her relatively slim fingers. (US size 5 I think) She would happily go for a 0.7ct, however the actual choice of ring/bands/stone is up to me, and will be a surprise. (as will the timing!)
On to the hard part! As i''ve alluded to above, we both prefer what I''d call ''sparkle'' over size, and the maximum size is limited by the ring. With this in mind, I was thinking of going for a ~1.25ct D, VVS1, VG cut stone. Now, I don''t mind going for IF over VVS1, or Ideal/Signature Ideal (on Blue Nile) over VG cut if this will make a difference to how it looks. To a certain degree I''d quite like the ''purest possible'' stone, but at the end of the day I''m more concerned with how it looks to the naked eye, when walking under the kitchen lights, into a store with nice lighting, sunlight, how it catches her eye when walking down the street, her friends'' comments when seen under the lights at the bar etc. (the sparkle!)
Right, a few questions. I''ll try to keep this short, as it''s already longer than I intended!
1. Cut
Whilst reading the forums, it strikes me the regular posters value cut over the other cs, at least once you''re talking above a certain level of the other 3. Am I right in thinking that this is the best place to go for ''the top'' criteria in order to have the greatest effect on the naked eye?
2. H&A, Eight Star, etc.
My understanding is that a diamond with a sufficiently good cut (e.g. ideal) and negligable inclusions (e.g. VVS1) should refract enough light to 1. sparkle to the naked eye, and 2. exhibit symmetry that creates a typical pattern under a microscope, e.g. the ''hearts or eight star'' patterns. Are the H&A, Eight Star brands simply marketing, or would, say, a H&A VVS1 D Ideal cut be genuinely nicer to the eye than a ''normal'' VVS1 D Ideal cut stone? (or any less sparkly than e.g. a Blue Nile signature ideal, or some other ''top 1% of cut'' diamond)
3. Certifications
I may be opening a can of worms here, but here goes. Until recently I wasn''t aware of AGSL, and thought GIA was the ''standard''. (I believe in the US AGSL is more commonly used than in Europe). I have read elsewhere on this forum a number of (lengthy) posts about GIA reports in 2006, and the controversy there. I was thinking of getting a stone online, or at least purchasing the stone unseen (more on this in another post!), in which case I would expect to see a certificate to 1. ensure the criteria I asked for are indeed satisfied, and 2. to do any further comparisons between 2 stones of the same cs. I was (naively?) hoping an ''ideal cut GIA'' diamond would indeed be ''ideal''. Further to the other posts, it looks like there is quite some variance within the category of ''ideal'', and which motivates comparisons of the actual angles/measurements involved. Blue Nile (sorry for the name dropping!) sets their ''Signature Ideal'' cut as 60.1-61.9% depth and table of 55-57%. Would this be a good sub-range to look for within any ''ideal'' GIA cuts that I find on other sites? I also understand the AGSL reports grade differently - is an AGS0 the creme de la creme, and comparable to e.g. the Signature Ideal, or other such ''top 1%'' of rocks?
4. law of diminishing returns
(please bear with me here!) I imagine the gradings of each of the Cs will be quasi logarithmic, by which I mean given (e.g.) 10 gradings, the gradings from best to worst do not cover 10%, 10%, 10%, .... 10%, but more like 0.001%, 0.01%, 0.1%, 1%, 10%, etc of stones by quantity. This is clearest to see in carat weight, i.e. a 2 carat is rarer/more expensive than two 1 carat stones. However, I imagine it also applies at the top end of the scale in colour, clarity, etc, where upgrading from (say) an F to an E/D or from VVS2 to VVS1/IF has a large effect on the price, but little effect on the noticeable appearance of the stone. (in marked contrast to going from say I1 to SI1, or K to G) Are there ''universally accepted'' levels, e.g. F, VVS2 where subsequent increases fail to be noticeable to the naked eye or even the untrained eye with a scope? (and where any further improvements are simply for the knowledge that you have an XXX stone?)
Right. At the end of the day, I suspect I will wander over to 47th Street (NY) and spend an afternoon comparing stones, as opposed to window shopping and avoiding the bouncers trying to usher me into every store. However, before I venture that far, I thought I''d get some informed advice from yourselves! Apologies for the lengthy post!
Thanks
A.
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