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Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter

kenny said:

"Alec Baldwin will be charged with involuntary manslaughter in 'Rust' shooting death"​


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He may not be everyone's favorite person, but this seems incredibly unfair to me. Has the investigation actually found evidence of wrongdoing or negligence on his part? Since when is an actor in charge of firearms protocols on film sets? That is the prop manager and armorer's job. And the director literally yelled "cold gun" before filming the scene. So not only does Alec have to live with the fact that he inadvertently killed this beloved cinematographer due to someone else's oversight, he's now somehow criminally responsible. :confused:
 
I kind of do think it’s fair due his his additional responsibilities to ensure a safe set. If he was some young actor who had no other role there would be less accountability. But I believe this has only been brought because the investigation found multiple instances of safety breaches.

Edited to add;

As someone who has had firearms training I would also say that the first, last and most important role is you NEVER, NEVER point a gun at a person. Loaded or not. Ever. For this exact reason.

And also there was no need to actually have “real” guns on that set. Use decommissioned arms or just props. Add the effects afterwards. He was involved in making the decision to use real firearms. So….
 
Ionysis said:
I kind of do think it’s fair due his his additional responsibilities to ensure a safe set. If he was some young actor who had no other role there would be less accountability. But I believe this has only been brought because the investigation found multiple instances of safety breaches.

Edited to add;

As someone who has had firearms training I would also say that the first, last and most important role is you NEVER, NEVER point a gun at a person. Loaded or not. Ever. For this exact reason.

And also there was no need to actually have “real” guns on that set. Use decommissioned arms or just props. Add the effects afterwards. He was involved in making the decision to use real firearms. So….
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Agree completely. He was absolutely partly responsible, if not fully responsible.
Film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed will also be charged.
They will probably both be acquitted (or plead out) but I hope somehow this will change things and make sets safer for everyone involved.
 
I have no problem with him being charged. I think someone needs to be found responsible (him or the Film armorer, or both).
A judge or jury can decide who it is (or is not).

Edit....truly hope that new regulations come out of this. Like no live ammo on the set, or no real guns on the set.
 
He has continued to say that he did not pull the trigger but someone clearly did pull the trigger. Such an unfortunate incident but someone is responsible. It is just amazing that it took this long to bring charges in this case.
 
Good. If it was anyone else, charges would have come much sooner. I am unfamiliar with movie sets and procedures and don't know nearly enough to form an opinion of guilt or innocence, but a person is dead and he had the gun in his hand. In any other circumstance, the person would likely have been arrested at the time or promptly after. Famous people should not be above any laws. Let a judge and jury decide.
 
I can understand both sides of ...
1. On set, verifying that the rounds in the gun were not "live" was someone else's job, not Baldwin's.
2. You just never point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them.

I realize both of the above points conflict, but I see good reasoning in each.
So, there you go! :shifty:

IIRC I read that someone with authority on the set (director? cinematographer herself? a producer?) told Baldwin to point the gun at the camera (assuming for the alarming effect film-goers will experience only when looking directly into the barrel of a gun aimed at them.)
For many, even just a pic of this is chilling.

gun.png

I can't accept that anybody told Baldwin to point the gun AT a person, but perhaps the victims were in the path that the gun took in order for it to point at the camera.
Unfortunately the victims were next to the camera.

IMO real guns have no place on a film set, so we need a law, or 50 state laws, to enforce that.
Even shooting "blanks" should be outlawed since muzzle fire, smoke and the sound can be added after filming.


I hope the outcome of all this is that sets will be safer in the future, but it's tragic someone had to die for change to take place.
It reminds me of how X number of people have to die from being hit by a car to justify the cost of putting up a new stop sign.
 
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MissGotRocks said:
He has continued to say that he did not pull the trigger but someone clearly did pull the trigger. Such an unfortunate incident but someone is responsible. It is just amazing that it took this long to bring charges in this case.
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This, very much. They tested the gun and his position was debunked, from what I read. That, plus the fact that the set had such lax security with weapons, coupled with the fact that he was in a management role as a producer, lead me to having zero issue with him being charged.

I cannot imagine firing a weapon, in acting, and just blindly relying on someone else to say it's unloaded and not checking. That is highly irresponsible, to say the least.
 
Autumn in New England said:
He may not be everyone's favorite person, but this seems incredibly unfair to me. Has the investigation actually found evidence of wrongdoing or negligence on his part? Since when is an actor in charge of firearms protocols on film sets? That is the prop manager and armorer's job. And the director literally yelled "cold gun" before filming the scene. So not only does Alec have to live with the fact that he inadvertently killed this beloved cinematographer due to someone else's oversight, he's now somehow criminally responsible. :confused:
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I view this the way @Autumn in New England does. The whole purpose of having an armorer on set is to so incidents like this don’t happen. This is their sole job.

I can’t help but wonder if part of this is happening due to Alec’s wife continually posting “Happy Family” pictures on social media. It seems extremely insensitive and tone death in my opinion considering there is another family dealing with a terrible loss due to this accident. I completely understand that the Baldwins love their family but they can do so without all the social media bragging. It feels heartless and mean given all Helena’s family has lost in my opinion.
 
Alec Baldwin is responsible, there is no two ways about it; despite his claims he did not pull the trigger, the evidence confirms it was in fact the gun in his hand that was found to have killed the cinematographer.

Whether it was an accident and/or due to negligent safety behavior on set is something for the judge and jury to decide.

The armorer is facing the same charges.

Interesting the assistant director was able to finesse a plea agreement for negligent use of a deadly weapon.
 
I can only imagine the 168 videos the Police released from the investigation will prejudice the trial in his favour and he will be found innocent. The Armourer or prop person who left a live round in the gun will be found guilty. Her attitude after the event left a lot to be desired in the videos. Witnesses state they saw her shake the bullets before loading and one didn't have a hole in it if true that would mean she placed a live round in the weapon. He says he cocked the gun, and it went off on its own. It is exceedingly rare for a gun to fire without the trigger being depressed. Modern firearms, even replicas of antique guns, have safeties specifically designed to prevent them from firing without the trigger being pulled.
One hopes the trial will reveal the truth and her family can get on with recovering and learning to live without Halyna Hutchins.
 
He absolutely deserves everything that comes to him. It was his responsibility to check the gun after it was handed to him. Also, he should never pointed at anyone. The people you should feel sorry for her son and her husband.
 
I'm not sure exactly how I feel. Apparently the cinematographer told him to point the gun at the camera. If that's true and he followed that direction then I'm not sure I'd say that was negligent, assuming he thought it wasn't a gun loaded with live ammunition. Whether he should have checked the gun or not is something I go back and forth on. I do agree that it is the armorer's job to do this. So should he double check that? As an actor? As an executive producer? I have to think about it in terms of all the dangerous things that are used on movie sets. People scaling buildings, scuba diving, jumping out of planes. Do the actors double check everything? Maybe that is different because this was a gun pointed at another person, but I'm struggling with the idea that it is the actors job to double check what someone else is supposedly responsible for and what is their sole job.
I don't know enough about what an executive producer actually does to give an opinion on that. if the entire set was reckless, then perhaps that is where his fault lies.
And I still don't understand at all how live bullets even would get on a set. Where do they get their blanks from?
 
I’m not very familiar with guns, but doesn’t this sound like the gun itself was faulty? I’m not sure what the right charges/if any would be, but if the gun was faulty and he didn’t pull the trigger, and they were rehearsing the shot it definitely doesn’t sound like as an actor he’s responsible. Many people are saying that you don’t point a gun at someone, but that’s kind of the point of many scenes that are shot? I do think as producer there is responsibility, but I don’t fully agree with pps.

“An FBI forensics report said the weapon could not be fired during FBI testing of its normal functioning without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked. The report also noted the gun eventually malfunctioned during testing after internal parts fractured, which caused the gun to go off in the cocked position without pulling the trigger.”
 
telephone89 said:
“An FBI forensics report said the weapon could not be fired during FBI testing of its normal functioning without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked. The report also noted the gun eventually malfunctioned during testing after internal parts fractured, which caused the gun to go off in the cocked position without pulling the trigger.”
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Well, that's interesting. I don't know anything about guns so don't know if this could happen twice, especially if some internal parts fractured during FBI testing.
 
I remember reading that Alec had done exactly what Elena had asked him to do when this happened.

I know nothing about guns which I’m sure is probably true for many actors. Isn’t that the purpose of an armorer on set? It’s the sole purpose of their job to make sure the gun is safe.

I have no idea why real guns are even used in making movies. They can edit the sound of a gun shot. There is no reason for a real gun or ammunition to be on a movie set.

Another thing that seems strange to me is Alec Baldwin and Helena’s husband reached an undisclosed settlement regarding her death. If I felt someone was criminally neglegent in the death of my spouse I serious doubt I would be reaching a settlement with the person.
 
Lookinagain said:
Well, that's interesting. I don't know anything about guns so don't know if this could happen twice, especially if some internal parts fractured during FBI testing.
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Yeah I’m not sure either. Is it possible that the gun was faulty and the repeated testing caused more damage? Were parts fractured prior and no one noticed? I definitely think the armourer/person who’s only job it is to make sure weapons are safe is going to have a heck of a time, I’m just not sure I blame the actor specifically.
 

The family said they’re pleased that Alec Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez Reed were charged. Despite reaching a settlement with Alec Baldwin. They want justice. I don’t blame them.

And no matter what anyone here thinks he did have a responsibility as producer. Read the article if you’re interested. Seems the set was not safe as reported by others on set. IIRC I think the words “Wild West “ were used.

You never point a loaded gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot. Or are reckless and ignorant. He had the gun in his hand. He pointed the gun. He should have made sure the gun had no bullets.
 
Calliecake said:
Another thing that seems strange to me is Alec Baldwin and Helena’s husband reached an undisclosed settlement regarding her death. If I felt someone was criminally neglegent in the death of my spouse I serious doubt I would be reaching a settlement with the person.
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I agree with a lot of what you’ve posted. For the lawsuit, it was a wrongful death lawsuit and was against basically the entire production and I thought it seemed fair. Very few people expect to go to their job and die, so compensation was (imo) appropriate. At the time of the settlement the husband/widow said:
“I have no interest in engaging in recriminations or attribution of blame (to the producers or Mr. Baldwin). All of us believe Halyna’s death was a terrible accident”
 
missy said:
The family said they’re pleased that Alec Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez Reed were charged. Despite reaching a settlement with Alec Baldwin. They want justice. I don’t blame them.
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Yes I heard that and also find it interesting since apparently part of the civil settlement they made with Baldwin puts her husband on the set of Rust as an executive producer. Really???
 
missy said:
You never point a loaded gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot. Or are reckless and ignorant. He had the gun in his hand. He pointed the gun. He should have made sure the gun had no bullets.
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How are you supposed to rehearse or film anything with guns then? Clearly that doesn’t hold water here. And considering there was supposed to be bullets in it - albeit not live rounds - that also doesn’t fly.
 
missy said:
You never point a loaded gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot. Or are reckless and ignorant. He had the gun in his hand. He pointed the gun. He should have made sure the gun had no bullets.
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Well then all movies would need to be made without guns pointing at people. And I would think that the gun was supposed to a have all blanks, not just be empty. Should that change and all movies be filmed without guns using blanks and instead be empty? Sure, but that isn't how it is now. He didn't think he was pointing a "loaded" gun. He was told it was a "cold" gun. He relied on the other people whose job it was to insure that. I assume that happens all the time so that is why I don't blame him for that part. However, if the entire set was loose with precautions, then as one of the executive producers that may be where the real fault lies.
 
telephone89 said:
How are you supposed to rehearse or film anything with guns then? Clearly that doesn’t hold water here. And considering there was supposed to be bullets in it - albeit not live rounds - that also doesn’t fly.
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Make sure the gun is NOT loaded. Rule #1
 
Lookinagain said:
Well then all movies would need to be made without guns pointing at people. And I would think that the gun was supposed to a have all blanks, not just be empty. Should that change and all movies be filmed without guns using blanks and instead be empty? Sure, but that isn't how it is now. He didn't think he was pointing a "loaded" gun. He was told it was a "cold" gun. He relied on the other people whose job it was to insure that. I assume that happens all the time so that is why I don't blame him for that part. However, if the entire set was loose with precautions, then as one of the executive producers that may be where the real fault lies.
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See my above response. It’s not that hard. Safety precautions MUST be in place and followed. Otherwise this happens.


The three basic general rules of safe gun handling.

Always point the gun muzzle in a safe direction; never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.
 
missy said:
The three basic general rules of safe gun handling.

Always point the gun muzzle in a safe direction; never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.
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Of course, if you are handling a "loaded gun". We are viewing this differently though. He was told the gun was safe because he was told it was "cold". This was a movie set and the part called for him to shoot, which he did while rehearsing. The question is whose responsibility it was to make sure the "bullets" were blanks and that seems to be where opinions differ. I'm just not sure it's the actors fault when there are people on set who are supposed to be doing that. It will be an interesting question for the jury assuming it's a jury trial.
 
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Lookinagain said:
Of course, if you are handling a "loaded gun". We are viewing this differently though. He was told the gun was safe because he was told it was "cold". This was a movie set and the part called for him to shoot, which he did while rehearsing. The question is whose responsibility it was to make sure the "bullets" were blanks and that seems to be where opinions differ. I'm just not sure it's the actors fault when there are people on set who are supposed to be doing that.
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Again he was not just an actor. He was producer on the set. It *was* his responsibility as well. There’s fail safe multiple levels of protection in place just so this doesn’t happen. He did not do his job. And now a woman, mother, wife, daughter is dead. Directly because they did not follow the safety measures.
 
Little kids use guns in films. Are they supposed to take responsibility for the firearm, check it's not loaded, etc?

People point guns at the camera in films. The usual rules of firearm use (in terms of never point at anyone etc) don't apply.
 
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