ahhh! soo confused about CUT GRADE

[djknap]

I found this "wholeseller" ben-gil here in dallas who only sales to retailers from what he told me. He found me a

1.00 D VS1
excellent symm and polish
56% table
69.9% depth
slightly thick to thick
for $5,355

I found this diamond on Bluenile for $4100 same GIA specs as the one above but with a thick girdle but bluenile says it is only a good cut...How do I know if the one above is a good cut? or ideal? I thought that if GIA said it was excellent symmetry, wouldn''t that mean it should sparkle really good and that it should be an ideal cut?

http://www.bluenile.com/asscher-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-d-color-vs1-clarity_LD01368923

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 8/6/2009 12:36:55 AM
Author:djknap
I found this ''wholeseller'' ben-gil here in dallas who only sales to retailers from what he told me. He found me a

1.00 D VS1
excellent symm and polish
56% table
69.9% depth
slightly thick to thick
for $5,355

I found this diamond on Bluenile for $4100 same GIA specs as the one above but with a thick girdle but bluenile says it is only a good cut...How do I know if the one above is a good cut? or ideal? I thought that if GIA said it was excellent symmetry, wouldn''t that mean it should sparkle really good and that it should be an ideal cut?

http://www.bluenile.com/asscher-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-d-color-vs1-clarity_LD01368923

You haven''t given us enough information to be able to tell you anything.
First thing you should know is the bluenile stone has strong blue fluorescence and 69.9% depth. The way to check if the stone is the same is to ask the "wholesaler" for the GIA report and then check the GIA report numbers.

Bluenile cut grades on fancy shapes are based on arbitrary numbers which do not mean very much. The only way you can tell if its a well cut stone is if you get an ASET and if you would like to post it here we can tell you about the stone you are considering.

Thirdly you are likely not getting a bargain on this stone from the wholesaler, have you seen it in person from them? have you seen other asscher stones as well elsewhere for a comparison?
A quick search on pricescope for 1.00 VS1 Asschers yields prices from 4000 - 5400 so this would be at the very top of the scale and Whiteflash and Jameallen will provide you with an ASET and Whiteflash will even inspect the stone before sending it to you, so you are much better off with a trusted vendor with a good return and customer support policies.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/6/2009 12:36:55 AM
Author:djknap
I found this 'wholeseller' ben-gil here in dallas who only sales to retailers from what he told me. He found me a

1.00 D VS1
excellent symm and polish
56% table
69.9% depth
slightly thick to thick
for $5,355

I found this diamond on Bluenile for $4100 same GIA specs as the one above but with a thick girdle but bluenile says it is only a good cut...How do I know if the one above is a good cut? or ideal? I thought that if GIA said it was excellent symmetry, wouldn't that mean it should sparkle really good and that it should be an ideal cut?

http://www.bluenile.com/asscher-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-d-color-vs1-clarity_LD01368923

In my opinion buying an asscher or any other fancy shape without images is buying blind, all you can do is order it and see if you like it - BN do not have physical access to most of their diamonds to evaluate them for you or to provide you with images.

storm is our resident asscher specialist, I will make sure he sees this and he could have some advice for you. Don't go by cut grades such as Ideal Cut, Premium Cut etc as these are no guarantee of a well cut diamond. Also diamond 'wholesalers' don't sell to the public at all, this would make him a retailer.

 

[FB.]

I''m always reluctant to buy stones that sit right on a carat boundary line (e.g. 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5 and so on).
Generally speaking, I''ve seen a lot of 1.00ct stones that are only good to fair cut, where the cutters intention was to reach the magic 1ct level for the large jump in price that he could receive.
In reality, many 1.00ct stones would have been better performing if cut to about 0.9ct.
But that''s not to say that all 1.00ct stones are always poorly cut.

If I''m buying a stone over 1ct, I look for at least 1.02ct.

 

[Ellen]

To the good advice already given, a true wholesaler cannot sell to individuals..... So beware.

 

[denverappraiser]

Hmmm. If this ‘wholesaler’ only sells to retailers, how is it that he’s willing to sell to YOU? On the surface it doesn’t really matter, he can sell to whoever he wishes but you’ve now already caught him in a lie before you even started the process. This raises questions about everything else he's telling you and that are harder to spot.

In terms of cut grading, there is no accepted standard for grading Asschers. Blue Nile uses their own internal method for deciding what is ‘good’ and what’s not. This is NOT information that was provided to them by GIA. As far as I can tell, the only attributes they consider are average table diameter and depth. To me this is inadequate to the point of being nearly useless. Symmetry is not the same a cut grade and it doesn’t directly relate to sparkle. It refers to, well, symmetry. Opposing sides of the stone should look the same, the corners should look the same, the table should be parallel to the girdle, the lumpiness of the pavilion should be the same on all sides, etc. These are all good things to be sure and well cut stones will all show fine symmetry but it doesn't go the other direction - All symmetrical stones are not well cut.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 8/6/2009 8:32:30 AM
Author: Ellen
To the good advice already given, a true wholesaler cannot sell to individuals..... So beware.

It is incorrect to say that all " true wholesalers" do not selll to the public. I know a wholesaler in Montreal who owns a stake in many of the diamond mines and cutting facilities in Canada. They ARE a wholesaler, its by appointment only, they don't have a storefront and mainly they sell to most of the retailers in Montreal. They also sell to private clients that have a personal relationship with them (ie "family" ) and are by referral only and are quite discreet about it as they don't want to be competing with their clients.

This is not so uncommon in this economy where wholesalers make a better margin and have less hassle selling to the end consumer than they do to retail vendors. However often the "Wholsale" price is not as discounted as you would think and you can still find better prices online. In my case (as they are future inlaws) the wholesale price was better than the PS vendors for similar goods, but they didn't have the selection or service I wanted for Fancy shapes. I think there are definite deals out there from wholesalers its just you need to know EXACTLY what you want and have a sharp eye, bringing your camera and IS and ASET and a good idea of what your ideal diamond looks like from the retail stores. This is definitely dangerous for a novice buyer but not impossible.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 8/6/2009 12:36:55 AM
Author:djknap
I found this 'wholeseller' ben-gil here in dallas who only sales to retailers from what he told me.

Back when I went to business school, selling things one at a time to the end consumer was called retail. It doesn’t matter what the sign out front says, what the décor of the office is or even what the price is. People have become accustomed to taking the word ‘wholesale’ to mean the same as low prices and in the jewelry business there are huge number of dealers who describe themselves this way. It’s a source of a fair amount of confusion to the point that the FTC has even commented on the ‘wholesale to the public’ style of advertising. To be sure there are businesses that cater to both resale clients and consumers and others that have different divisions that cater to different markets but the expectation that a store will have low prices because they have Spartan offices and describe themselves as a ‘wholesaler’ is clearly false, even if there are other customers who are reselling things purchased there. Maybe they have low prices and maybe they don’t. Each deal, and each dealer needs to be evaluated on their own merits.

I chimed in on this discussion because the above comment is the very first line of this thread. The dealer in question clearly does NOT only sell to retailers. This statement says nothing at all about either the stones or the deals but it does say something about the dealer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

Neil, thanks for chiming in. It has been my understanding (from you experts) since coming here, that real "wholesalers" didn''t sell to the public. By definition, it means buying in large amounts and selling to retailers. Upon trying to find a thread for reference, I came across this, which among other things, points out that it is illegal to make the claim one is selling "wholesale" to a consumer. It also points out, it does happen. And, it does say something...

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for the explanations Neil!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/6/2009 12:36:55 AM
Author:djknap
I found this ''wholeseller'' ben-gil here in dallas who only sales to retailers from what he told me. He found me a

1.00 D VS1
excellent symm and polish
56% table
69.9% depth
slightly thick to thick
for $5,355

I found this diamond on Bluenile for $4100 same GIA specs as the one above but with a thick girdle but bluenile says it is only a good cut...How do I know if the one above is a good cut? or ideal? I thought that if GIA said it was excellent symmetry, wouldn''t that mean it should sparkle really good and that it should be an ideal cut?

http://www.bluenile.com/asscher-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-d-color-vs1-clarity_LD01368923

This forum is pretty astute, so there is a good chance this has already been said, but...

If this guy only sells to retailers, why is he selling to you? I am smelling something fishy here, and it is not nice fresh salmon either!

Just my opinion of course, and I am a vendor here so please also take that into consideration. Also, if he is selling to retailers and they see his name here, he will have just lost several of his clients for a single sale. Not an astute move on his part.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

As expected, Neil said it better. He was also nicer, he does not mention the stinky fish...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/6/2009 12:19:32 PM
Author: Wink
As expected, Neil said it better. He was also nicer, he does not mention the stinky fish...

 

[oldminer]

Sometimes a true wholesaler may choose to sell at his exact wholesale price a diamond or a piece of jewelry to a friend, a friend of a friend or a relative. This is NOT wholesaling, but it is discount retailing. It makes absolutley no difference to the person buying what it is called. It is a matter of a good price sometimes. It is not a guarantee of a fair price, because you really don''t know what this guy sells to his regular customers for. Remember, many diamond dealers do not speak English as their native language and the nuances of meanings of words escape them. If a person who owns something legal wishes to sell it to you for a fair price, then this is an acceptable deal. It may not be using the right words to describe the transaction, but if you know what''s up, it is not of major importance. Then again, it is part of what makes our antennae go up when we hear obviously flawed facts being told to consumers.