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AGA Rating on an EC I'm planning to sell.

Z

ZhivagosGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
19
Hello,

I've been a lurker for quite some time and have found your information invaluable. I'm hoping you can offer some feedback on a loose stone I have. As it seems many people are running in to - my GIA cert does not have a crown height so I either have to guess-timate on the number or just take each characteristic as a single criteria. Maybe someone can help with some clarification and give me an opinion on an overall rating? The stone specs are as follows:
Emerald Cut
.92 ct
VS1
H Color
7.05x4.55x3.10 (1.55 ratio)
Depth 68
Table 65
Girdle Med to Sl Th
Polish Good
Symmetry Good
Fluor None

Below is the conclusion I came to - or the conclusion the numbers and info I found pointed me toward. LOL - I hesitate to put it because I asked for opinions and then I posted my own "results." Either way - I guess I'm asking if you concur.

Here is what I came up with by looking at each item on the the AGA Emerald/Radiant Cut Chart
Table: 1A
Girdle: 1A
Depth: 2B
Polish: 1A
Symmetry: 1A
And then I found this, "1B grade: All characteristics need to be all 1B or 1A to 2B. Only a single class 2 characteristic is permitted."

Thank you,
signed the over eager newbie (Lara)
 
Is it possible for you to work with someone that can provide a sarin report or ASET images? That will give you the additional information that you seek. If someone were looking to purchase based on numbers alone, then it looks like a fantastic stone....and those people are out there, so you may have some luck, others will insist that you have additional info that you can't provide such as an ASET image. I'm guessing that you could probably sell at a bit of a premium as well if you had the additional info....providing that it supported that it was a good performing stone.
 
I'm sure I could find someone to work with. Ironically I was at a jeweler's today and a "stone vendor" (sorry I don't know the terminology") happened to be there. He glanced at my stone and said, "Oh, it's a horrible cut." (meaning the ratio - and as you can see it is definitely not) As it turns out they were trying to close early due to a death in the family and are heading out of town and won't be back until next tuesday. So now the last memory they have of me is their supplier telling them my stone is horrible! I'm concerned that I end up going back in there with my back up that just because I'm not IN the business I don't KNOW the business (or at least my one teeny tiny smidgen that had to do with picking my stone). Anyway - I just want to be sure to go in there with all my details straight.

All that drama aside what kind of difference are we talking about in terms of desireability with or without the sarin report or ASET images? Does the stone meet the "1B" criteria as it currently stands or not without the crown height info and additional info? If I don't get that information what "class" rating would you give it? Are there ballpark dollar amounts floating around out there?

Also - is it a reasonable "guess-timate" that the crown height will be respectible? I mean, since everything else is pretty "high end" would it be surprising to have the crown height end up in the "basement"?

Thanks again for the feedback.

Lara
 
I wish that there was an easy answer for you. The truth is, just because the table and depth are desirable doesn't mean that the stone is a fantastic performer,....it could very well be, but even with all the additional information it will only give the potential buyer an idea of how it might perform. IMO step cuts have to be evaluated in person,for me personally it's very difficult to judge them by photos and even video alone, there is just something about them that needs to be seen in person. BUT, I'm not all people and what is necessary for me might not be necessary for someone else. Someone else may be happy with the assurances that the AGA provides. Some people are happy to purchase stones without a lab report, so it's really going to depend on who you are trying to sell the stone to. You mentioned a jeweler so my thought is that it really doesn't matter what additional information you provide, they are going to assess it themselves and determine an offer based on their personal assessment of the stone. As far as their distributor is concerned, he may have said the cut was horrible because he was going to make you a low ball offer, or allow the jeweler to. If you are hoping to sell on ebay, photos and the GIA report may be enough, on diamond bistro or loupe troop including ASET images will likely help you move the stone faster, so a lot depends on where and to whom you want to sell to. You may want to consider getting an independent appraisal done, by that I mean, an appraiser that neither sells jewelry nor is affiliated with a jeweler and is working for you alone. They can give you a better idea of what you have and what you can potentially sell it for in a given market. They may also be able to provide the Sarin and ASET. There is a list of PS recommended appraisers under the resource tab at the top of the page.
 
I hadn't really decided where I want to sell it yet. However, the one bid I got from an online retailer I thought was laughable (based soley on the GIA certs obviously). I did look into the independent appraiser avenue and unfortunately the closest one is 3+ hours away. I even checked in Memphis, TN thinking surely they'd have one (only 90 mins away) and they don't have ANY listed! Not one of ANY kind. Little Rock at least has 2 (even tho they are associated with jewelers). I'm certainly not opposed to getting those reports regardless of selling circumstance - LOL unless the results come out crappy. :rolleyes:

Can you tell me this - as AGS appraisers will any of them be able to do sarin or the ASET imaging? Are those separate items that are paid for separately? Can I do one without the other? If I can only do 1, which one would you recommend?

Thanks again!
 
You can do them separately. The sarin will give you all the proportions that you were missing when attempting to determine the AGA cut grade and an ASET will show you how the stone handles light, where it is receiving the light from and whether or not their may be leakage. If I were purchasing the stone then I would want the ASET, it matters little to me what the numbers are so long as the stone performs beautifully. But, truly neither is helpful if you plan on selling it to a retailer, and sadly 50% of retail is considered a fair offer on the secondary market. You might consider consigning the stone with someone like Good Old Gold, they have all the tools necessary to evaluate the stone and will know how to market it, and it would likely get more traffic than if you consigned it with a local jeweler, of course there is a fee for all this, but you will likely sell it for more than what you were offered locally....might be worth considering...

I
 
Thanks for the breakdown on the 2 reports.

What is considered "secondary market" - I'm not familiar with that term.

I have to say I'm frustrated by the self grading tool in that it requires the crown height yet most people won't come "armed" with that information. If that parameter is that important, why is it not included in a GIA report? And if it is so important why does nobody seem to ask about it except this grading tool? So where layman could gain some valuable, solid, industry, fact based information about their stone they are stymied by that criteria. So you have to go get the sarin report to then work backward and be able to use the self grading tool? At that point you don't need the self grading tool! Obviously my niche is only emerald cuts and maybe the crown is provided on other cuts otherwise I don't see the purpose in having that as one of the primary criteria.

LOL - sorry, should I tell you how I really feel about that? :loopy:

I will look into Good Old Gold, thanks for the heads up.
 
I am sorry to say that the AGA cut rating will do very little in terms of resale value. Those specifications are just sort of limits that one should aim for but guarantees nothing in terms of a sparkly diamond. Secondary market refers to a used diamond, secondhand diamond, diamond not "brand new" from a vendor. Basically, it means when sold in a store, it costs $X but when a consumer like yourself is selling, expect to only get 50% of $X.

Realistically, even having the crown height is useless by itself. Unless the P3 angles are in the correct combination, even having all A1s in the AGA cut chart will net you an unattractive EC. I have seen plenty of such duds.
 
Re: AGA Rating on an EC I'm planning to sell. OPINIONS PLEA

I was hoping for some clarification with the AGA rating tool to at least give me some sort of "ball park" to know what sort of estimates would be fair on the stone. I'm assuming there would be a reasonable difference between the 1s and the 4s? Since I don't have a crown height I'm unable to use the tool. There have been 157 views and not ONE PERSON is willing to give an opinion on the stone? And if I were to take it into a shop/store here locally what should I expect for it? I realize I don't have the sarin or the ASET (yet) - but what is your knee jerk reaction to it. Because I have a feeling that's what I'm going to get from jewelers I go and see.

Thanks.
 
Re: AGA Rating on an EC I'm planning to sell. OPINIONS PLEA

What you have in your GIA lab memo is sufficient for almost all laypeople and B&M stores. PSers will want an ASET to help evaluate the cut. Outside of PS, very few know what is an ASET and / or Sarin. A Sarin is unnecessary since you can guesstimate the crown height from the profile view / picture. As long as it isn't flat topped is all that counts. To decide on a fair price, do a Pricescope diamond search with your parameters (EC, ct weight, colour, clarity, etc) to see what comes up. Expect around 40 to 50% of that price. Please put the AGA rating out of your mind. Even fewer people are aware of it, including within PS.
 
Ok - thank you for the clarification.
 
I input all your EC parameters for a GIA lab memo and came up with a range from $2800 to $3500. Therefore, if selling it through a local jeweller, do not expect more than $1500 for your diamond. You might be able to get slightly more if you attempt to sell it yourself.
 
Ok - thank you.
 
Just as an update on pursuing the ASET images. There are 2 jewelers in Little Rock on the AGS website, one does not have the capability, the other does but does not have the ability to produce pictures (digital or otherwise).

The 1 independent appraiser in the state (3+ hours away) would have to send them to the American Gem Society Laboratory for a “Platinum Diamond Quality Document”.

So - so much for that.

I'm going to take them to a jeweler tomorrow and one more on Tuesday and I have emailed the GOG folks - I'll just have to consider my options after that point.
 
AGA cut grade does not affect resale prices on emerald cuts in a significant way.
ASET images are useful for a variety of things but rarely do they drive the price. Most dealers, and most appraisers, are not familiar with them. The bids you get from dealers will be largely unaffected whether you have one or not.

What are you hoping to learn from your appraisal? That may seem like a stupid question, especially coming from an appraiser but it's really the heart of the issue. 'Value' depends on a lot of things but the most important issue beyond deciding what it is is what it is worth to whom, when and under what circumstances. As a general rule, appraisal reports don't make very good advertisements. You can't show the report to a potential buyer to show them what it's 'worth' and expect them to take you seriously. This will be the case whether you have an ASET image in the report or not.

'Secondary market' means that you are consumer selling to a dealer rather than the other way around. It has a significant affect on the prices.
 
I was pursuing the idea of the ASET really based on the recommendation of the posters here. I certainly don't have my heart set on having one. I bought the stone online without having one and have been very happy with it and have never gotten anything but compliments. It's been a while since I bought it so I thought maybe trends or "requirements" had changed relating to online sales that's why I posted looking for feedback. If I'm ok moving forward without anything other than the GIA cert, that suits me fine.

Oh and as relating to the AGA rating - that may very well be my own curiosity in terms of a stone I (we) researched and bought ourselves. I'm curious what people (the appraisers here) think in terms of how "well" we did against the standard.

Thanks again!
 
When buying online, an ASET is very useful in helping evaluate the cut and light perfomance of the stone, in addition to pictures and videos. In your case (of selling), an ASET in unnecessary and I would not go to the added expense and hassle of getting one. If you are wondering how well you did against the standard, the ASET will tell you more than the AGA rating.
 
An ASET image or IS image may be useful for your own education but it's not likely to help your sales unless you're in a direct retail environment, meaning a consignment to a store that uses this sort of thing, and even then I would probably let your partner do it however they think works best for them. They are not all the same and this sort of thing is part of what you're paying them for in their commission.

I think a well considered resale appraisal WOULD be useful to you because it would help you congeal on a marketing plan and help you set your prices but your buyer isn't likely to care.
 
What is a resale appraisal?
 
For any appraisal to be useful it must contain the elements of what it’s worth to whom, when and under what circumstances. Most jewelry appraisals are done for insurance purposes and the usual answer to this is what you would expect it to cost to replace the item with another one like it new, at retail, locally, today, with another of ‘like kind and quality’ or words to that effect. There are other options. What you could reasonably expect to get for it on a sale to a dealer. What you could expect to get for it on direct retail via craigslist, ebay, diamondbistro or similar market. What you could take off on your taxes if you donated it to a museum. What was it worth on some date years ago (this is usually part of a tax or divorce question). What you would expect it to cost in it’s present condition in a typical jewelry store, internet marketplace or whatever. There are more.

The are all very different questions and they produce different answers. Often it surprises people just how different they can be. I refer to my own reports where people are asking questions about selling into a particular market as ‘resale’ appraisals although other appraisers may call them something different. The key is to make sure they are providing you the correct answer to the correct question. In your situation, knowing what a high end specialty jeweler would charge to custom make a replacement item isn’t very useful information, even if it turns out to be correct. There's a certain amount debate whether this is useful to much of anyone but it clearly doesn't apply to your situation. Put another way, the correct answer to the wrong question is doing you no favors.
 
I pretty much figured I was in the half of the current going rate ballpark.
 
ZhivagosGirl|1369413988|3453148 said:
I pretty much figured I was in the half of the current going rate ballpark.
Click to expand...
Half of what? How are you determining the going rate (to whom, when and under what circumstances)? You can pick whatever number you like, of course, and the marketplace will work it out, but if you're going to use an arbitrary number, why that one?
 
The average sale price of similar emerald cut diamond from the sellers on this website. (As was already stated in this thread)

I'm not sure I'm understanding our dialog - are you trying to help me? confuse me? "school" me? Because frankly I'm just getting frustrated and upset. You are the expert. I am completely open to you tell me what it would be reasonable to accept for my stone. Either in a B and M jeweler or online or in any scenario you would care to present.
 
I'm sorry to be frustrating. I think it would be beneficial to you to hire an expert to advise you on pricing who can actually look at your stone and with whom you can discuss the issues at hand. There's a list of local appraisers under the 'resources' tab at the top of the page that should be able to help. Free advice from unknown strangers who have not seen the stone and who do not understand the market or the variables you are considering I think is not doing you any favors.
 
I'm very familiar with the appraisers list, therein lies the problem. The only "experts" in town are the only 2 jewerly stores that offer consignment. The only independent appraiser is 3+ hours away.
 
ZhivagosGirl|1369417540|3453182 said:
I'm very familiar with the appraisers list, therein lies the problem. The only "experts" in town are the only 2 jewerly stores that offer consignment. The only independent appraiser is 3+ hours away.
Click to expand...
USPS will deliver to anywhere in the country fully insured with their registered mail service. Assuming you are in the US and the appraiser that interests you is also in the US, you should be able to get it to them securely for less than $20 and in less than a week.
 
So in your expert opinion - all this time, trouble and addtional cost (for the delivery and the appraisal services) will have that much influence on how much I can get for this stone?

Isn't the price of something set based on whatever the market will bear? So whether I have a piece of paper that says an appriaser in some other city says the stone is worth X and I'm showing them to a jeweler in Little Rock how does that matter? (Isn't this what you said a couple of posts ago?)
 
Customers vary.

Some, myself included, will not give a hoot about an appraisal from the best appraiser in the world or an AGA grade.
I would judge cut from a properly-taken ASET pic and only believe the color and clarity grades that are printed on a report from GIA or AGS.
A dollar value on appraisal is worthless because diamond is not a set-price commodity like an ounce of gold ... price will vary with nuances of the diamond, venue of sale, and ignorance/education of buyer.
But civilians educated about the ASET scope are the minority.

You are asking for black and white absolute answers, but selling a diamond is full of nuances and shades of gray.
Besides customers varying, selling venues vary too.
Some get you top dollar, others speed, but these seem to be mutually exclusive.

IMO you'll get the most for it if you put it on consignment and are willing to wait months, perhaps years, for it to sell.
The fastest way to sell it is to walk into a pawn shop, but that will get you the lowest price.

You can sell it for free on www.diamondbistro.com
Price it a tad high for X months, and lower the price if it does not sell fast enough for you.
 
I'm leaning toward consignment as I'm not needing to get "fast cash" out of it. Or the more I talk about doing it - the more sentimental I get about not letting it go. I'll still talk with the jewelers I had planned next week - and then decide from there.
 
Yes, that’s what I said several posts ago. We’re getting back into questions where my answers are likely to frustrate you. The price you can get for something, diamonds or pretty much anything else, has as much to do with YOU and with your selling skills as it does with the item. Whether or not professional assistance would help is one for you to decide. Only you know how good or bad you are at this sort of thing. A competent appraisal is likely to help you in three areas:

1) Setting your price. Price it too high you will be declining offers that you might otherwise be wise to accept and spending more time on it than is necessary while you figure out that your price is too high. Price too low and you are leaving money on the table.
2) Market selection. I’m guessing by your description of your local stores that you don’t count them as credible buyers and that you don’t want to participate in a consignment deal and/or you don’t count them as credible sellers. That leads to markets that you’re probably not familiar with but where your appraiser might be.
3) Some people don’t want to do the work to make themselves into diamond market experts and prefer to have someone else deal with it while they get on with their lives.

In answer to your question, selling into the appropriate market for your situation and asking an appropriate price will almost certainly increase both your results and the speed but this is not guaranteed. Whether or not this is worth the time and expense associated with an appraisal is up to you. Emerald cuts are not the easiest thing to sell these days any way you look at it and leaving a bit of money on the table just to be done with it isn’t such a crazy idea.

The report from the appraiser is not an advertisement. You’re quite correct that sensible buyers don’t much care what YOUR expert has to say. They can and should hire their own or rely on their own expertise.
 
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