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advice on maximizing size

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rockafella

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
27
Hi folks, its time to get that rock after years of being together. I know that she is the one.
Im looking to max the size. Her finger is 4.5 and I am deciding between a 2 to 2.1 carat round brilliant or some thing slightly bigger. I dont want to go past 2.5 carat, as the price/carat increase does not financially make sense. My question is, on a 4.5 ring size will a 2.35 to 2.4 carat look signficantly larger than a 2.1 to 2.2 carat? The price difference isnt small and there are a ton more selection in the 2 carat range.

I know that table % should be within the 54-57% anything larger is not optimal for light return but looks larger? So would a 2 carat with 59% table look bigger once set than a 2.4 carat with 55% table?
 
I think that if you want to maximize size you should look at the mm dimensions of the diamond and not the % of the table. Also, carat weight doesn't always determine the size of the diamond because if a diamond is cut too deep it would appear smaller face up than another diamond the same carat weight with ideal cut proportions.

I am still new here but I'm sure some other people will help you search for a diamond if there are certain specifications you are looking for :)
 
I think on a 4.5 finger a 2 ct. stone will look large! I wouldn't worry about stretching the pocketbook or the cut parameters just to go larger. Most girls would be thrilled with a 2 ct. stone.
 
if you wish to maximize the size for the carat weight then pick an ideally cut diamond at the lowest end of the depth range...for round brilliant you would be at 59% - 60% for depth. The size is the diameter of the stone in mm. The smaller tables which may indicate a higher crown can also make the diamond more attractive....and CUT IS KING as far as performance of the stone and light return.

I would suggest that you go to goodoldgold.com and educate yourself by watching their videos on how to choose a diamond and then you will be ready to shop for that special stone to maximize size, performance and your budget.

When you have done that then post the cut, color, clarity parameters and the PS'rs who specialize in the cut you are looking for will help you find the best stone for the best price among the trusted online vendors.

Good luck.
 
Isnt 59 or 60% table outside the recommended 54-57%
What is the advised mm size on a gia cert for diameter to maximize size? I think first # is length, the second # is width (diameter in this case) and the third # is depth (table to cutlet).

How do they measure length of a diamond?
 
She said look for 59-60 DEPTH, not table. Table is fine 54-58. Depth I would look for 60-62.0. The table size does not make the diamond look larger or smaller. You look at diameter. The first two measurements are diameter and the last is the depth.

2 carats is a large diamond. It will be plenty large on a size 4 finger. The only reason I might go larger is if it is normal in her group of friends or sisters to have significantly larger diamonds. Then I could see the reasoning to go up to 2.5 cts.
 
diamondseeker2006|1344140603|3246218 said:
She said look for 59-60 DEPTH, not table. Table is fine 54-58. Depth I would look for 60-62.0. The table size does not make the diamond look larger or smaller. You look at diameter. The first two measurements are diameter and the last is the depth.

2 carats is a large diamond. It will be plenty large on a size 4 finger. The only reason I might go larger is if it is normal in her group of friends or sisters to have significantly larger diamonds. Then I could see the reasoning to go up to 2.5 cts.
Click to expand...

So here is a sample

measurements = 8.49 - 8.54 x- 5.26

I don't understand why there is a range in the diameter? As you increase the carats, doesn't the diameter ALWAYS gets bigger? I don't think I have seen a smaller carat with a larger diameter than one heavier in size.

There are a lot more G colors to select from, compared to F color. I read the post on someone asking between these two colors. Side by side, no one really can tell the difference. Price jump, is a different story to go to a near colorless.
 
It sounds like most folks think 2 ct is good size. Sounds like people here agree that the price increase to go from 2 to 2.25 ct is NOT WORTH IT? Or from 2 to 2.4 ct is also NOT WORTH IT? I just saw a 2 next to a 2.4 today, pretty noticeable difference when placed side by side.
 
rockafella|1344144737|3246238 said:
diamondseeker2006|1344140603|3246218 said:
She said look for 59-60 DEPTH, not table. Table is fine 54-58. Depth I would look for 60-62.0. The table size does not make the diamond look larger or smaller. You look at diameter. The first two measurements are diameter and the last is the depth.

2 carats is a large diamond. It will be plenty large on a size 4 finger. The only reason I might go larger is if it is normal in her group of friends or sisters to have significantly larger diamonds. Then I could see the reasoning to go up to 2.5 cts.
Click to expand...

So here is a sample

measurements = 8.49 - 8.54 x- 5.26

I don't understand why there is a range in the diameter? As you increase the carats, doesn't the diameter ALWAYS gets bigger? I don't think I have seen a smaller carat with a larger diameter than one heavier in size.
Click to expand...

If I understand your question correctly, you're not looking at a range of diameter -- the length 8.49mm and the width is 8.54 mm -- the diamond is not perfectly round, which is pretty common.
 
So... Bigger is bigger. Bigger is also more expensive. If you don't want to pay the price to go bigger, then you don't want to do that. Don't angst about it. I have a size 4.5 finger and two carats is plenty big.

With that said,, actually carat weight and face-up size are correlated but not directly linked. If you have a deep diamond, it will face up smaller than a shallower diamond. Usually one carat diamonds face up around 6.5ish mm, but we have seen ones that face up at 6mm, which is about the same size as a 0.8 ct ideal cut diamond.

There is usually a range given in the diameter of a diamond becaus they are not perfectly round. With that said, the example range you gave has a difference of 0.05mm, which is going to be totally invisible to the naked eye.
 
OK, sounds good. So I look at G color and to my surprise, they are somewhat significantly cheaper than F color. I wonder if I WILL EVEN NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE ?

Here is one I found, that are on the lower end of the spectrum. I also look at BGD which lists similiar sized 2.2 G colors, but around the $28-29k price. So this one at $25k is cheaper ($4-5k cheaper than comparables for some reason). Maybe BN gets better deals.


This is one and scores 1.6 BUT has a crystal and cloud right in the middle.
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02704341
Selected: 62.2% depth, 56% table, 35° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.


Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.6 - Excellent

What baffles me is once you increase it 0.15 to 2.35 ct, the price goes to $31k ($6k more??? why?) Now you are in the F color price range. Does not make sense. Can someone please explain why anyone would pay $30k+ for G color when you can get F colors in this price?
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02137806
 
Color is evaluated face down against a white background against a set of master stones. It's very unlikely that you will be able to differentiate between an F and G once the diamond is set. The price decrease that you are seeing is based on the fact that DEF colored stones are considered colorless and are more rare than GHIJ which are near colorless. Near colorless though, does NOT mean that the stone isn't considered white and bright. The cut of the stone will have an enormous impact on how you perceive the color of the stone. An ideally cut G will look whiter and brighter than a poorly cut E. Most people are comfortable with colors to H before they begin to see the impact of color on the stone. Of course upside down and side by side, they are much more obviou but you will never be viewing your stone this way unless it's of course to critique it's color.

You will also notice price changes when you go from IF- VVS clarity, again from VVS-VS, and VS-SI. In a two ct stone its probably best to stick in the VS range to ensure eye cleanliness. VS2's will still need to be evaluated. It's possible of course to find eye clean SI's but it becomes more challenging.

Are you firm in your desire to work with BN? I ask because they offer very little information on their stones past the reports. I know they can call the holder of the stone and ask THEM to evaluate the clarity, but keep in mind the holders desire is to sell the stone, so it's very possible that his opinion of eye clean may be different than yours. There are tools that we recommend using to select a stone from a virtual inventory. The first is the HCA, stones scoring less than 2 a worth further investigation. Stones between 2-3 may warrant further investigation. Once you find a good scoring stone we suggest that you request magnified images of the stone and Idealscope images. This will help you further determine the likely LP of the stone. Then the next step would be to order the stone and let your eyes be the final judge. BN can not offer you the magnified images or the Idealscope images. This makes ordering the stone a bit more risky and it can get expensive if you have to ship a number of stones back and forth. Many PS vendors that have these tools available also have the ability to assess the stone for you, and also have access to BN inventory (other than their signature line, I believe). If your interested in investigating some of these other vendors we can supply you with a list of vendors that come highly recommended and respected with PSers that have used them.

ETA sorry I forgot to address the price increase based on ct weight. There are certain weights which coincide with a price increase. .5, .75, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.25,2.5 etc. As the size of the stone increases so does it's rarity and thus it's value. There are many more 1ct stones than there are 2 ct stones, and so forth, so every increment over these specific weights adds value to the stone. When you do your search you will see that there are many more 1ct G VS2s available than there are 3ct G VS2s. Cutters try to reach these weights thus increasing their profits.

edit: typos
 
Thanks for the wealth of information. After looking at price points, I believe a G color is better. I was not sure an extra $4,000-5000 to go to a higher F color was worth it. Face down, I probably will not even notice. Only reason I was considering F color was that people told me that F color is more "rare" = better resale and piece of mind that there are less F stones out there. And it is colorless

Here are some G color I am leaning towards.

2.4 ct G color
http://certs.rapnet.com/userfolders/14320%5CCerts%5CAM7009.JPG
Scored a 3.7 on the HCA. LOWEST out of the 3 G colors here
Has twinning wisps but no crystals or clouds. Isn't that good?
$29,212 by local retailer

2.31 ct G color
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2136009805&weight=2.31
Scored a 1.1 on the HCA
Has crystals all over the place, including the table.
$27,432 by local retailer

2.28 ct G color
http://certs.rapnet.com/userfolders/67100%5CCerts%5C5136241140.jpg
Scored a 2.3 on the HCA
Has twinning wisps but no crystals or clouds. Just like the 2.4 carat above, but much cheaper
$26,242 by local retailer

Obviously, I am not sure if the 2.4 ct, which is ONLY 0.12 carats bigger than the 2.28 ct (last one), is worth $3,000 more. Thoughts?
The middle one looks good, but has inclusions all over the place. I was told that twinning wisps are the "best" inclusions to have.


Here is a "maybe". I am debating if its worth the extra $ to go F color.

2.41 F color
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2145289709&weight=2.41
Scored a 3.4 on the HCA
Has crystal in the middle, but might not be bad.
$33,038 by local retailer. About $3,800 MORE than the G color 2.4 stone above.
 
Hi Rockfella,

That's crazy the price difference between the GSI1 2.25 and the GSI1 2.35 that you posted (back three posts ago), both diamonds look similarly cut, and I actually prefer the inclusion plot from the cheaper diamond!!! The 2.25 is now sold! So it must have been a good find!

There can be price discrepancies within BN diamonds, because they list a whole lot of diamonds from multiple vendors. They do have a return policy and I believe if you do keep an eye on listings and jump on diamonds if you know what you are looking for you can make some savings.

Rapaport - shows relative diamond pricing and different breaks in price point. Ie the jump from 0.97 to 1 carat and the jump from G to F etc. so you can also look to see where bigger savings can be made.

The link is an example of one, it is a couple years old.
http://www.truthaboutdiamonds.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/raplist.gif

The example you listed the 2.25 vs 2.34 was crazy. Unless there was a massive price break at 2.25 which as you say is not worth 6k and it's a pretty strange price break too! You would expect to see one from 1.95 - 2 for example.

Anyhow, the diamond is sold now :))
 
BN told me that the 2.24 had a black inclusion right in the middle. Thats why it was priced so low.

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on the 4 above. I'm leaning towards the 2.4 ct (8.59 mm) or the 2.28 ct (8.4 mm) Both are G color. Both have twinning wisps. I have to research these "good" inclusions as I heard they are the best to have but need to validate with your thoughts! Price point of $3000 to go bigger to 2.4 ct from 2.28 ct, I am not sure I will even notice the difference. It's only 0.19 mm bigger.


What does it mean "additional surface graining not shown" ? Also some twinning wisps not shown, not sure why it is not captured in the certificate.
 
Rockafella, you probably want to start browsing jamesallen.com so you can see the inclusions for yourself and confirm light performance with an idealscope image.
 
Can anyone give advice to the G color ones I posted? I'd like to call in some and wanted to know if there are any red flags you guys think. Also the F color one.
 
Other than Idealscope, what else can I do? Local retailer does not have equipment to show me Idealscope image. I am slightly worried that twinning wisps will affect it. I contact JA and a rep from JA said

"From the thousands of idealscope images/gemologist inspections I've seen, I personally feel that idealscope images represent a diamond's light performance based on the cut, not the inclusions. I've seen many images that look great but then when I report on the gemologist's findings, I'll see conflicting information where inclusions impact the light performance"

Based on that, he is saying that the Idealscope may or may not help.
 
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