Advice on cut two stones

[Boogie1]

Which would you pick on cut specs alone and why? Thanks in advance for any opinions; I posted another thread last week but didn't get any responses.......I feel like the table is better option 2 but depth better on option 1 is one characteristic more important than the other?
Option 1:
Table=58
Depth=61.1
Pav ang= 40.6
Crown angle=35

Option 2:
Table=57
Depth=62.2
Pav ang=40.8
Crown ang=34.9

 

[FourMine]

Hello,

So like you said the table is preferable in option 2, but the depth in option 1. Generally, I prefer to stay with a depth on the outer limit of 61%. Because option 2 is upwards of 62%, it is a little heavy for my taste. I also prefer a crown angle closer to 33 degrees. Both seem to be around 35 so that cancels out. I would say option 1 is better because a difference of 1.1% in depth is significant and you may like the less heavy diamond that has more spread.

Thank you,
Anubh

Four Mine
Gemologist
www.fourmine.com

 

[ame]

I'd pass on both. You can find better. Where are you looking, what's your budget?

Table too big on the first, too deep on the latter, and the crown angles could be better on both. They're still "in range" but they could both be better.

 

[Boogie1]

Thanks for responses, the first is 1.23 g/vs1 and option 2 is f/vs1. The first ring looked at didn't do good on a hca so the sa found those two that did good and were in my parameters f/g vs1/2.there arent many options in vs2 there. Now that I'm starting to understand cut im having hard time finding one that meets all the right angles. I was looking at Tiffany solitaires, I know I can save a lot online and get a better cut but I'm holding onto hope I'll find a top notch cut there in the ranges I want. My girlfriend wears a size 3.5 ring so I think that will be plenty big and it's in my budget so I'm not trying to deviate from where im looking just quite yet.

 

[Boogie1]

Four mine, if you don't mind elaborating why you prefer a 33 angle I thiught I was shooting for 34.5? I saw one with a 32.5 and I'm new to cut so immediately thought was not ideal.

 

[ame]

I don't prefer a 33. You want a 34.5 if possible, if nothing else a range of 34-35, with a preferably 40.7-40.8 pavilion angle. If possible go for a 55% table and around a 59.5-61% depth which, frankly, you're going to have a HELL of a time finding at Tiffany's since they tend to go deep on their stone selections. You're most likely to see things closer to 62 there.

Use this as a cheatsheet...Ask the sales person to limit the selection so that all of the diamonds are within the following range of proportions:
Total depth between 59 – 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 – 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

Make this SA earn their keep. They DO have some good ones in their stock, you just have to make them find those stones.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Boogie, I assume these are certified stones. GIA? If you post the report numbers you will get better feedback as we can see more information.

FourMine- Anubh,welcome to the forum. Members of the trade need a trade badge on their postings. I'm not sure why yours is not appearing but you can contact the administrator and get that updated.

 

[ame]

Boogie, I assume these are certified stones. GIA? If you post the report numbers you will get better feedback as we can see more information.
.

He said they're from Tiffany, so they'd almost certainly be in-house graded by Tiffany, as they rarely concern themselves with other labs anymore. I quite frankly don't consider that a reputable lab or report, since they can pretty much make up any damn grade they want and drive the price accordingly. But, I digress.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Boogie, I assume these are certified stones. GIA? If you post the report numbers you will get better feedback as we can see more information.
.

He said they're from Tiffany, so they'd almost certainly be in-house graded by Tiffany, as they rarely concern themselves with other labs anymore. I quite frankly don't consider that a reputable lab or report, since they can pretty much make up any damn grade they want and drive the price accordingly. But, I digress.

Oh, I missed that. In that case the decision has to be based on overall eye appeal and price differential between the two. Focusing on what you know is a better strategy than speculating on cut quality with insufficient information. I'm sure they are both pretty.

 

[Boogie1]

No they are not Gia graded, I saw one at David yurman I liked that was but it was 59, 32.5, 60 and I thought it was more off than the Tiffany ones I liked. It's interesting to me how the hca calc gives exc scores to ones outside the ideal parameters. You are right about them not having much under 57 table wise......can someone electorate on why the lower table percentages are more desirable in the range? I think I read something about more colored light over white light refracted; or is it purely a dimension thing?thanks again for the help

 

[Texas Leaguer]

No they are not Gia graded, I saw one at David yurman I liked that was but it was 59, 32.5, 60 and I thought it was more off than the Tiffany ones I liked. It's interesting to me how the hca calc gives exc scores to ones outside the ideal parameters. You are right about them not having much under 57 table wise......can someone electorate on why the lower table percentages are more desirable in the range? I think I read something about more colored light over white light refracted; or is it purely a dimension thing?thanks again for the help

In general the 60/60 stones with lower crown will give you a little more brightness and spread at the expense of fire (colored sparkles).
HCA has slightly different assumptions built in about what makes for top light performance as opposed to say GIA and AGS. Both HCA and GIA look at a limited set of averaged parameters and compare those against tables to deliver their results. The AGS system is much more sophisticated, taking into account each and every facet and it's impact on light performance through ray tracing.

If you are working with a limited set of measurements or unknown origin (not lab certified), then you are really not going to be able to make any intelligent determinations about cut quality. You are better off just using your own eyes and common sense about which stone is the better value for you.

To an extent when you choose to deal with brands that do their own grading, you are putting your faith in the brand and foregoing the kind of critical analysis that you would get going in another direction. It's all about what's important to you.

 

[Boogie1]

Thanks Texas, I'm in Dallas so your helping out a local. One more question about those two in specific, which is the worse sacrifice the 58 table in option 1 or the 62 depth in option 2. Knowing that it's not something I can hand select the specs like I could at an online store which is more "acceptable"?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thanks Texas, I'm in Dallas so your helping out a local. One more question about those two in specific, which is the worse sacrifice the 58 table in option 1 or the 62 depth in option 2. Knowing that it's not something I can hand select the specs like I could at an online store which is more "acceptable"?

Unfortunately, the answer is- it depends. It depends on a lot of other factors that we don't know about. Both can potentialy be fine.

You are better off not stressing over small differences in table and depth when it won't help you understand the diamond, given the lack of additional information and the fact that you don't know how accurate those numbers are anyway since the diamonds are not lab certified. If you are determined to buy one of the two, and both are in your budget, go with the one that looks best to you.

I don't mean to be dismissive (especially to a fellow Texan) but your eyes and your instincts are better tools in this case than having someone render an opinion from afar based upon insufficient information.

 

[Boogie1]

Good deal, thanks for your advice.

 

[ame]

Which store are you dealing with? Surely if it's Northpark they can get more than these two. I would seriously ask for the SA to do a little more looking based on that cheat sheet knowing fully that it's their grading. I am not in DFW but I have family there and have been in that store.

 

[sarahb]

Goodness Boogie1, if you are in Dallas, did you realize one of the best online PS vetted venders is right next to you in Houston. Lab certs, ASET images, etc--everything you need, all the data up front, to make the right choice.

Their ACA branded diamonds are the bomb--its worth a phone call, they also have a Houston showroom.

 

[ame]

Is having Tiffany branded important to HER or to YOU? Because if it's not vital to get the brand to make her heart sing, and you want the best cut you can get, yes, you can get the look of the Tiffany solitaire from several vendors here, two of which are IN Houston and would do a great job for you.

 

[Boogie1]

Yes north park, the sa has been super helpful and shown me at least 10 and had a few flown in.theres always a number I don't quite like in the specs. The first one she sent specs I sent her that hca score it was upper 3's and I told her wanted under 2 so she only sends me options under that with their score she's super helpful I just haven't found the one I consider "the one".as to the brand there is no need but I can get what I like with the band I like under budget so if I can find one with those parameters why not......if for some reason I can't find that then maybe I will have a reason to change plans.

 

[ame]

Ok, then. Have her keep looking. Don't ever settle if you're going to spend this kinda cash, sure as hell not if you're going with a brand!

You can use the HCA to help narrow down but ultimately your eyes need to choose when you find numbers you like.