Advice on buying from a small shop

[romantic]

Thank you to the community here for all the valuable information you provide on making this overwhelming diamond buying process easier. The threads have been immensely valuable for me but I am still very nervous about finding the right diamond.

My girlfriend has a very close friend who owns a jewelry shop. I am pretty sure I would get a great deal there that I cannot get elsewhere, but I am hesitant about a couple of things. First, I've already gone to see the selection he had on hand, and all of the diamonds I looked at were EGL USA certified. I read on here and elsewhere that their grading can be somewhat softer. I am nervous about relying on an EGL report, but it on the other hand because of the connection, it would likely cost me a lot more to go elsewhere to get the same diamond that has a more reliable report. Second, I am going back there very soon to look at other diamonds the jeweler found for me, but I think it may be as few as three. Do you think there is a significant risk in ending up with a subpar diamond if I am only comparing it to two others (I have spent several hours at a big box store comparing a range of diamonds, but it's pretty hard for me to tell the difference unless I look at one right next to the other.) Am I limiting myself too much by focusing on purchasing from the small shop? I appreciate any advice you can offer!

In case you need to know what I am looking for, I have been considering a round brilliant cut diamond around 1.5 carats, G-I color, eye clean, and ideal cut. My budget is about $10,000 but is somewhat flexible.

 

[rubybeth]

I think you are limiting yourself too much by only going to a small shop that carries EGL stones. We have also heard horror stories about people buying from 'friends' and 'getting a deal.' More than likely, you are not getting any kind of deal, there is still a huge markup on diamonds, and a friends/family discount is going to get you in the ballpark of nicer stones you can find online.

For a comparison, here's a 1.4 I VS2 AGS 000 from James Allen for about $9,100 with the Pricescope wire price discount: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1485561.asp

 

[Christina...]

Ok, I didn't even make it through your post because when I saw 'friend owns jewelry shop' I had to stop and say.....this is almost NEVER a good idea. We see people post about working out a deal with a friend and I have NEVER seen it end well, it almost always ends up with someones feelings hurt. Its almost like buying you friends car and a week later the engine blows....your pissed that he didn't tell you that he never changed the oil, he's mad because it's YOUR car now and not his problem and yada yada....I just would never recommend this.

The only two labs that I would recommend are GIA and AGS EX/ideal cuts. These two labs are the most reputable and consistent in the world and the only way to know that the stone was accurately grades. You can't compare stones for value if you don't know what to compare the stone to. EGL is almost always a better deal for the dealer than it is for you, and if you ever want to sell the stone on the second hand market you won't be able to recoup as much as you will with a GIA or AGS report.

Typically online vendors offer the best value in terms of price and policies because they don't have the same overhead that BM stores do. They also tend to have better return polices, buy back, trade in and upgrade polices as well.

I'll take a look for you and make some suggestions, others will too!

 

[partgypsy]

Romantic there are pros and cons to a small independent shop.

I would go to a small shop for a) the service (before and after purchase) b) design and selection of mountings, whether it is original or designer work and being able to try on different settings. One of my all time favorite jewelry store is a local one with in-house bench jewelers, who both have beautiful finished pieces, can do custom work, and would have no problem modifying or resizing existing pieces.

However first of all a small shop is not going to get you a better price than an internet shop with a virtual inventory, due to basic economics, they simply have a higher overhead (rent, salary, etc). In exchange for more personal service they have to charge more, just to keep the lights on.
As far as the "personal discount" sure this person is a friend of your partner, but all stores rely on word of mouth for business. If they gave a special deal to everyone who they personally knew, they would go out of business.
Secondly, a smaller shop is going to have less selection of diamonds to choose from, and in general less information about the quality of the stone, particularly the cut quality (here you only have EGL USA stones to select from). If you don't even have the same amount of information about the stones you are choosing from, how do you even know if you are getting a deal? You need to compare apples to apples.

 

[Haven]

If I were you I'd go to the friend's shop, look at the diamonds, and come home with prices and copies of the EGL certs, or in the very least write down all of the stats for each diamond. THEN, come here to PS and post the stats for each diamond to get feedback from PSers.

We generally advise against buying diamonds graded by EGL because the grading is too inconsistent to be reliable. This means it's going to be difficult for you to get an accurate idea of whether the diamonds are priced fairly because how can you find reliable comps when you're not sure if the color and clarity gradings are accurate?

That being said, at least if you go to the shop, do your research by posting the diamond stats here and getting feedback, then you can tell your GF (with evidence, if necessary) that her friend's shop just wasn't the best option. If the shop owner is a good friend of your GF's, then you might do some damage control by at least giving it a shot first. In the end, your GF will likely be extremely grateful that you bought the best stone for your budget, regardless of where it was purchased.

 

[Christina...]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1496987.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1500160.asp
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.346-i-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104059065006
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.518-i-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104059065022 this one has said 'reserved' for about a week now, so if your interested I would call and see whats up. I really love this diamond.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2133649.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2708997.htm

There are lots of other stones that are available in a virtual inventory that I think could make really great choices, but because they are virtual you would have to request images of the stone and idealscope images as well. Engagement Rings DIrect had several options for you, so if you don't see something that your looking for in the recommendation that have been or will be made, there are lots more options out there, they just require a bit more research.

 

[Christina...]

If I were you I'd go to the friend's shop, look at the diamonds, and come home with prices and copies of the EGL certs, or in the very least write down all of the stats for each diamond. THEN, come here to PS and post the stats for each diamond to get feedback from PSers.

We generally advise against buying diamonds graded by EGL because the grading is too inconsistent to be reliable. This means it's going to be difficult for you to get an accurate idea of whether the diamonds are priced fairly because how can you find reliable comps when you're not sure if the color and clarity gradings are accurate?

That being said, at least if you go to the shop, do your research by posting the diamond stats here and getting feedback, then you can tell your GF (with evidence, if necessary) that her friend's shop just wasn't the best option. If the shop owner is a good friend of your GF's, then you might do some damage control by at least giving it a shot first. In the end, your GF will likely be extremely grateful that you bought the best stone for your budget, regardless of where it was purchased.

This is really good advice! I hadn't considered the feeling of your gf or her friend if you didn't at least reach out in effort.

 

[motownmama]

I'd use one of the vendors mentioned above. I think I'd tell your GF that you'd really like to get a GIA stone with your $10K. You will be much more confident what you're really getting.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

You mentioned the diamonds were "what he had on hand"; if he can get EGL diamonds, it follows he has access to GIA certed diamonds for your inspection. Cannot you not just ask? Something like this.......

"Thank you for showing me these diamonds--it is good to see options. But (intended and) I really had our hearts set on either a GIA or AGS certed diamond. I'd love it if you could help me/us...."

cheers--Sharon

 

[romantic]

Thanks all for the excellent advice and research, especially for finding those online listings in the range I am looking. You confirmed the fears I have, but at the same time it is difficult because I feel a sense of loyalty of sticking to the place. But Haven's suggestions do make me feel better about explaining the situation.

When I go to the shop tomorrow, I will write down the stats of the diamonds I look at and try to get copies of the certificates. My hope is that since he had to go get these other diamonds that they may have other certifications. I will report back tomorrow and hopefully be able to comfortably determine if I need to just buy online.

 

[Haven]

The important thing to remember is that this is business. Even though this is a close friend, you are still spending a lot of money to buy something that your GF is going to wear for a very long time. Yes, this person is a good friend, but she is also a business owner and you are a customer.

IF she can get you a GIA diamond with an ideal cut and the specs you want for a price that is comparable or better than what you can find online, PERFECT! Buy that sucker! But if not, you absolutely should not feel bad about buying elsewhere. (Same goes for the setting.)

The worst thing you could do would be to buy an item that is sub-par out of a sense of obligation to a friend. She may believe very much in her products, and in the EGL diamonds she sells, but that doesn't mean you have to buy one when you know something better is out there. (If that turns out to be the case, of course.)

I know this puts you in a sticky situation, but at the end of the day *real* friends want their friends to get the best items possible for their situation, regardless of whether they agree with the purchase choice. Friends don't value friends based on their potential to make money off of each other, after all!

 

[webdiva]

Thanks all for the excellent advice and research, especially for finding those online listings in the range I am looking. You confirmed the fears I have, but at the same time it is difficult because I feel a sense of loyalty of sticking to the place. But Haven's suggestions do make me feel better about explaining the situation.

When I go to the shop tomorrow, I will write down the stats of the diamonds I look at and try to get copies of the certificates. My hope is that since he had to go get these other diamonds that they may have other certifications. I will report back tomorrow and hopefully be able to comfortably determine if I need to just buy online.

Think about the loyalty they would have to you if you make a $10,000 mistake in purchasing a diamond that's not worth it. Don't sweat it and don't feel obligated. it's YOUR money.

 

[cl600500]

how well do they like you to give a "deal". think about this a couple hundred dollars to you might be alot of money in their eyes-their idea of a deal is maybe only a couple hundred dollars and with a 10k budget thats nothing. and also their idea of a "good" diamond might not be that great-they might sell to people who dont know diamonds from shiny rocks in the ground.....dont think you have any loyalty to them you dont owe them or need to buy anything from them, i dont know why you would be a push over with your money like that....sorry but thats kind of strange to feel need to buy something from someone i dont care if they are friends or family it doenst matter. family and relationships are never built on money, only ended.

 

[GirlyGirl]

The important thing to remember is that this is business. Even though this is a close friend, you are still spending a lot of money to buy something that your GF is going to wear for a very long time. Yes, this person is a good friend, but she is also a business owner and you are a customer.

So true. When I worked in automotive sales, it was a well known practice to sell to friends, family, and neighbors because they "trust" you.

 

[db3737]

funny thing is I know EXACTLY how you feel as I was in the exact same situation at the time I knew nothing about diamond grading or buying!

There is a friend of the family who we have known basically my whole life, my parents knew her from a child and watched her grow up, she knew me as a baby and watched me grow up (im 23) she was one of my baby sitters and was always close to the family. This girl ended up marrying a jewelery shop owner, very cool guy very nice. My parents got some custom made rings from him and when it was time for me to get engaged I decided I would go visit him since to me it seemed like the best place to go. My mother even talked to him before hand and told me he would be giving me a very good discount in the range of about 20 percent off of making us a custom setting! i would later find it would be too good to be true

So the situation was my mother passed down her 1/4 carat yellow gold engagement ring to me that she had long time ago upgraded with a much bigger and nicer stone and setting. Its a very good cut, clarity, color ect. She told me I could either use the ring as it is to propose and use it till I could afford something bigger and nicer like she did, or since the setting was a little old and worn I could take it to this said friend along with some other misc gold jewelery to sell to him and then have him make a new custom setting for the diamond. as long as I dident sell the diamond or trade it in because she wants the diamond to stay in the family.

So I go in there with the intention of taking the stone off the setting getting it polished and selling him the gold from the setting along with some other scrap gold jewelery we had, or having him use that gold to make us a custom setting for that same diamond or if not atleast just making us a custom setting without selling or trading over the gold but using the original 1/4 carat diamond my mother passed down to me.

So I go to the store and we start chatting a bit making small talk then start talking about what we want to do. He looks at the ring/diamond and right away starts pitching me other diamonds/rings telling me that as much as the diamond my mom gave me is nice and beautiful that its her diamond and that I should give it back to her and that I should buy something bigger and nicer because in the end girls like bigger diamonds blah blah blah and how white gold is nicer and basically trying to sell me on a completelly brand new ring/diamond. So i end up walking out of there not doing business with him I propose to my fiancee (she says yes) shes very happy with the ring and has been for the past year!

now that i have a little more money to spend and looking to get my fiancee something bigger and nicer(and giving the 1/4 ring back to my mom for safekeeping) I will not be going to this "friend" as I already know he knows nothing about ASET images, idealscope, gemex light performance, AGS0 ect. and that I cannot trust him to give me "friendly" advice but actually try to push me to BUY probably the biggest stone in my budget.... I had never felt so pressured in my life and he had almost convinced me to buy her a bigger diamond ringI could not afford at the time! now that im shopping and researching online I feel alot more confident in purchasing in the near future

 

[romantic]

I went today and looked a few stones. At least one them had a GIA report but one stood out to me as much more impressive than the others. Unfortunately, it's certification is EGL international. It probably stood out because the color was graded E and I was looking at it next to a GIA I. The catch is that once I looked at the certificate it said the symmetry is only very good and polish only good to very good. It does say tolkowsky ideal cut on the certificate but I'm not sure if that is based on any real standard, and the HCA was a mediocre 5.1 (using % because that's all I have).

I really liked it but I assume based on the HCA that I should rule out this diamond. I am interested in any thoughts in how to really tell the difference in cut by looking at the diamond. This one really looked miles ahead of the 4-5 others I saw. I looked at this E SI1 next to a smaller F SI2 (also EGL) that rated 1.2 on the HCA and it still looked significantly better to me. I am going to look at others tomorrow.

If you need the specific info it's EGL # 2821357230, 1.45 E SI1, 7.22 - 7.17 x 4.15 mm. Depth: 62.7%, Table width: 58%, crown height: 15%, pavilion depth: 44%.

 

[Haven]

Romantic--If you start a new thread here in RT asking for feedback on stones you'll probably get more traffic from the cut nuts around here.

Everyone is still going to tell you to be wary of a stone graded by EGL because you can't get a true handle of what you're buying since their grading is so soft. Therefore, we won't be able to tell if you're getting a fair deal on the price. (I recommend you include price info too, you'll get feedback on that as well.)

The other thing to consider is that a diamond graded SI1 by EGL may very well be graded as an I1 by GIA. (Not necessarily, but again, you never know.)

Did you ask your friend if she would send the stone to GIA for certification? That's another option, too. Then you could tell if she's really giving you a fair price.

 

[romantic]

Thanks, Haven. Just from reading other threads on here I can tell that the diamond is probably too deep and as a result probably looks smaller the it otherwise could for its weight. I also read the threads about Tolkowsky Ideal Cut on EGL reports and understand that designation is essentially meaningless. I'm going to push for something with a GIA or AGS report and if I find a serious contender maybe I will start a new thread.

 

[Haven]

Thanks, Haven. Just from reading other threads on here I can tell that the diamond is probably too deep and as a result probably looks smaller the it otherwise could for its weight. I also read the threads about Tolkowsky Ideal Cut on EGL reports and understand that designation is essentially meaningless. I'm going to push for something with a GIA or AGS report and if I find a serious contender maybe I will start a new thread.

THAT is a great plan!

If you end up buying elsewhere and your girlfriend is upset about it, you can just print out this thread and show her how much thought you put into the process!