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Advice needed for uncomfortable friend situation

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Girlrocks

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Anyone remember my post a few weeks ago about my "friend" who gave me the 7 year old Ruth Chris'' gift card for my birthday?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/really-ticked-off-at-best-friend-what-should-i-do.117297/

I work from home. I had a teleconference on Thursday from 1:30-3:30pm. My friend has a 20 year old daughter who just had a baby about 6 weeks ago. I know that she needs money, so I asked her if she would be interested in taking my kids to the pool for those 2 hours and I would pay her. She agreed.

It rained. I called her mother to ask what plan B was, the mother said that her daughter decided she wanted to take them to a movie instead. Fine. I kept my youngest at home since that is nap time anyway. She had my older 3. I gave my 9 year old $50 for the movie, snacks, etc. I was planning to pay the babysitter after she got home. Off they go....

3 hours later they return. She didn''t take them to a movie, says they got to the mall 10 minutes after it started (I don''t know how, they left 45 min before the movie started and the mall is 20 min away). She took them to her grandmother''s house which has a large park next door to play at. Then she took them for an ice cream and came home.

I asked my daughter for the change, says she gave the money to the babysitter when she got in the car for the movie so it wouldn''t be lost. The babysitter did not give me any money back.

DH and I both believe that my daughter gave her the $50 when they got in the car, and she purposely did not take them to the movie so that she could keep the money. We all know that the first 15 min of a movie are ads and trailers, so going in 10 min late would have been no big deal anyway, had that really happened. How much could ice cream for 3 kids cost...$10 MAX, which means she pocketed $40 for 2 hours of babysitting.

I e-mailed my "friend" this morning to ask if her daughter had any change for me; her response "I have forwarded your e-mail to her." WTF??? Aren''t you her mother? (BTW...this entire situation was arranged by her mother and I; I never spoke to the daughter directly until she came to drop them off afterwards.)

DH is LIVID to say the least. He seriously wants to go over there today and tell this whole family off.

What should I do at this point?
 
I''m sorry. That is a tough situation. Did you pay her on top of that and then expect her to give you the change or did you not say anything and then just let her go with the change? Maybe she thought that was the pay? I sure would have brought you the change back, but maybe it was a misunderstanding. If you didn''t pay her on top of that, I would probably just let it go and chalk it up to her being desperate for money and helping out your friend''s daughter. I just wouldn''t go out of my way to help her again. Sorry!
 
Date: 7/25/2009 9:37:38 AM
Author: steph72276
I''m sorry. That is a tough situation. Did you pay her on top of that and then expect her to give you the change or did you not say anything and then just let her go with the change? Maybe she thought that was the pay? I sure would have brought you the change back, but maybe it was a misunderstanding. If you didn''t pay her on top of that, I would probably just let it go and chalk it up to her being desperate for money and helping out your friend''s daughter. I just wouldn''t go out of my way to help her again. Sorry!
No, I did not pay her on top of that, I have had her babysit for me before, and I always pay her (or any babysitter for that matter) after, either when I get home or if they take my kids somewhere, when they get home. And technically, I gave my daughter the money to pay for the movie, and she asked the babysitter to hold it for her in the car so that it wouldn''t get lost. So really, in my opinion, she stole $40 from a 9 year old.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 9:37:38 AM
Author: steph72276
I''m sorry. That is a tough situation. Did you pay her on top of that and then expect her to give you the change or did you not say anything and then just let her go with the change? Maybe she thought that was the pay? I sure would have brought you the change back, but maybe it was a misunderstanding. If you didn''t pay her on top of that, I would probably just let it go and chalk it up to her being desperate for money and helping out your friend''s daughter. I just wouldn''t go out of my way to help her again. Sorry!

Ditto! The whole situation sounds sketchy with missing the movie. I''d consider it a donation and avoid her as a babysitter in the future, unless you want to make waves with this friend.
 
hi girlrocks :)

this is *exactly* the sort of thing that sends me over the edge. there''s stacks of things in life that rile people up, but not me. this ISNT one of them. i''d be FURIOUS.

if it was me, i''d accept at this point that this family and my own family were eons apart ethically, and i''d call it a day. with all of them. i would have swallowed the situation with the gift card, had a talk to my friend, and made some new ground rules. but this situation, combined with your friend''s response of ''i''ll forward this email to my daughter'' would be the end of me. i know 20 yr olds are adults, but since the arrangement was really between your friend and you, a true friend wouldn''t suddenly start treating you as tho you were looking for the complaints department and had been put through to the wrong extension!

gees louise.

my only caveat was if you hadn''t been clear with the daughter as to when she''d be paid. the icecream may have come to $20 for 4, and she may have thought $15/hr was what you were paying - especially if your daughter phrased it in terms of "mom said i was to give this to you" - your daughter meaning ''to hold'', the babysitter thinking ''to keep''. the fact that she hasn''t asked to be paid says to me that perhaps she *did* think this was her pay.

i think she knew that your child didn''t have $50 of her own, and that the $50 was from you, so it''s not really an issue of ''stealing $50 from a 9 yr old''; the money wasn''t your daughters, and the baby sitter no doubt knew that. so i''d back off from that line of reasoning.

however, it''s the mother - your friend - and her attitude that would do it for me. she has a very interesting view of money in relationships, and it''s not a view i could live with; i hate being gratuitously ripped off! so i''d call it a day.

but only you know what this relationship is in your life - how important or not important, and only you can make that call. this is just one of my ultimate bugbears.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 9:56:41 AM
Author: whitby_2773
hi girlrocks :)

this is *exactly* the sort of thing that sends me over the edge. there's stacks of things in life that rile people up, but not me. this ISNT one of them. i'd be FURIOUS.

if it was me, i'd accept at this point that this family and my own family were eons apart ethically, and i'd call it a day. with all of them. i would have swallowed the situation with the gift card, had a talk to my friend, and made some new ground rules. but this situation, combined with your friend's response of 'i'll forward this email to my daughter' would be the end of me. i know 20 yr olds are adults, but since the arrangement was really between your friend and you, a true friend wouldn't suddenly start treating you as tho you were looking for the complaints department and had been put through to the wrong extension!

gees louise.

my only caveat was if you hadn't been clear with the daughter as to when she'd be paid. the icecream may have come to $20 for 4, and she may have thought $15/hr was what you were paying - especially if your daughter phrased it in terms of 'mom said i was to give this to you' - your daughter meaning 'to hold', the babysitter thinking 'to keep'. the fact that she hasn't asked to be paid says to me that perhaps she *did* think this was her pay.

i think she knew that your child didn't have $50 of her own, and that the $50 was from you, so it's not really an issue of 'stealing $50 from a 9 yr old'; the money wasn't your daughters, and the baby sitter no doubt knew that. so i'd back off from that line of reasoning.

however, it's the mother - your friend - and her attitude that would do it for me. she has a very interesting view of money in relationships, and it's not a view i could live with; i hate being gratuitously ripped off! so i'd call it a day.

but only you know what this relationship is in your life - how important or not important, and only you can make that call. this is just one of my ultimate bugbears.
This is exactly what has me so ticked...my friend. What's up with that e-mail???? Oh, geez, you forwarded it from your Inbox to your daughter's Inbox on the same stinkin' computer???? Thanks!

You are right, 20 year olds are technically adults, but not really, so she may have misunderstood. I guess I'm bothered because she didn't take them to the movie, and I didn't know about it until they were on the way home and she called HER MOM, not me, and told her about it. And I only found out after I called her mom because it was 4:30pm and I told her I only needed her to watch them until 3:30pm, so I was worried that they were an hour late and something had happened. DH is also upset that she expects to be paid for 3 hours when I only told her 2; she was the one who stayed out an extra hour on her own.

I just get really upset when people are dishonest. If someone gave me money to do A with, and I decided to do B because it was cheaper and pocket the difference, I think that is morally wrong.

You are right, the whole family has issues, the apple isn't falling far from the tree I'm afraid, so I guess I need to chalk it up as leason learned.

ETA: This was a 2 part teleconference, the second part is Tuesday, and the arrangement was that she would watch them both days. Think again, chicky!
 
I understand that she should had return the change and then get paid, but you did not pay her eather. I think this is a whole misunderstood. She forgot to give the change and you forgot to paid. Before make the assumption that she just kept the money, just ask her how much was from the icecream and gas, maybe actually the change was enough for to get her paid.

I just feel a bit sad how you are accusing this young lady of stoling from your daughter, when you did not pay her for her work.
 
How much do babysitters make these days anyway? We have been lucky to have family watch our son, so I''m really not sure. I do know that before I had him 5 years ago, my summers off from teaching I would watch 2 kids and the parents would pay me $10/hour plus give us money to go out and do things (of course I would give the change back from those outings). So maybe the pay rate is about 12/hour now? She was supposed to have them for 2 hours so that would be $24 plus give or take $10-15 for ice cream (some places are really expensive).....so she left with an extra $11 or so. I would probably just let it go and not ask her again.
 
I don''t know how are the rates eather, but 2 years ago I baby-sit saturday afternoon, and I was paid 15usd an hour plus money to take them to circus, money for snacks, and money for taxi. I guess 15 and hour is normal, well, thats a nyc rate. I''m sure all depends of the state.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 11:33:04 AM
Author: gaby06
I understand that she should had return the change and then get paid, but you did not pay her eather. I think this is a whole misunderstood. She forgot to give the change and you forgot to paid. Before make the assumption that she just kept the money, just ask her how much was from the icecream and gas, maybe actually the change was enough for to get her paid.

I just feel a bit sad how you are accusing this young lady of stoling from your daughter, when you did not pay her for her work.
Ok, more info needed:

I am giving her an Eddie Bauer highchair for her baby. Part of what her mom and I worked out is that when she dropped the kids off after the movie, she would pick up the highchair, since she did not have enough room in the car for all of it. However, after the park, she did not even bring my kids home, she took them to her mom''s house and they walked home by themselves. I sent her a text right away thanking her for taking them and telling her to come right over so that I could pay her and give her a high chair, She responded "k". (This was before I found out that my daughters did not have any change).

Then on Friday morning, I stopped by her house to pay her, get my change and give her the highchair...she peeked out the window at me but would not open the door. I knocked for about 10 minutes. Then left. I sent her a text asking to know when would be a good time Friday to get together, she did not respond.

I was planning to pay her $25 for the 2 hours. I think that is reasonable. The fact that she kept them out an extra hour because she was visiting with her grandmother was her choice. I don''t think I should have to pay her for that. And I have ALWAYS paid babysitters at the end of the sitting, and everyone that I know does also. I think she figured out that she got a better deal by keeping the money that was for the movie rather than what I was planning to pay her.

And obviously this girl needs the money more than I do, that''s obvious. However, I just don''t like how shady her and her mom are acting. I let her borrow all of my maternity cloths, which have not been returned, I gave her all of my girl cloths which is A LOT since I have 4; and since she has had the baby I pick up diapers/wipes/formula/food etc. weekly when I am doing my grocery shopping and delivered them to her house.

Here is the whole principle for me...I gave her money for an outing with the understanding that she would get paid afterwards. She should have dropped my kids off, given me my change and let me decide how much I was going to pay her.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 12:48:20 PM
Author: Girlrocks

And obviously this girl needs the money more than I do, that's obvious. However, I just don't like how shady her and her mom are acting. I let her borrow all of my maternity cloths, which have not been returned, I gave her all of my girl cloths which is A LOT since I have 4; and since she has had the baby I pick up diapers/wipes/formula/food etc. weekly when I am doing my grocery shopping and delivered them to her house.

Wow, you have gone above and beyond for this girl. For her to essentially steal from you is unthinkable. At this point, it may well be time to cut ties with this rude family.
 
I remember the Ruth Chris situation.

It''s possible that this incident was a misunderstanding at first; however, her subsequent behavior is extremely shady. If I were you, I would cut ties with this family, as I would not have the patience to deal with similar situations in the future.
 
Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.

What is everyone''s experience?
 
Date: 7/25/2009 12:57:25 PM
Author: icekid
Date: 7/25/2009 12:48:20 PM

Author: Girlrocks

And obviously this girl needs the money more than I do, that's obvious. However, I just don't like how shady her and her mom are acting. I let her borrow all of my maternity cloths, which have not been returned, I gave her all of my girl cloths which is A LOT since I have 4; and since she has had the baby I pick up diapers/wipes/formula/food etc. weekly when I am doing my grocery shopping and delivered them to her house.

Wow, you have gone above and beyond for this girl. For her to essentially steal from you is unthinkable. At this point, it may well be time to cut ties with this rude family.

Ditto this! I have to ask, too - what made you feel she even deserved all this extra effort from you? Was she kind in the past, but is a jerk now? It sounded to me like your friend, her mother, has always been the way she is. I would have cut ties with her long ago.

As for the going rate, it depends on how many kids you have, their ages, and the age of the babysitter. Let's say you had 4 kids that were all VERY young - say 6 months, 2, 3, and 4. (God, I hope not! Lol that seems so hard!) If they are all that young, and you leave them from 6-11, and the babysitter is older like this girl, $75 is not unreasonable. But if they are older, and the babysitter is 16 or so, then you could go less.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 1:08:44 PM
Author: Girlrocks
Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.


What is everyone''s experience?

i agree - that IS a lot. but then again the kids would be asleep for a lot of the time and the baby sitter wouldn''t be assuming a great deal of risk. the kids are in their own home and there''s little stress or risk involved.

however, in your situation the baby sitter had to transport and relocate them - a much more difficult scenario. and with 3 kids not her own, not always easy. they weren''t in their own home, they weren''t stationary...

i gotta say, for 3 kids for 2 hours, $30, doesn''t seem that much to me.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 1:46:51 PM
Author: whitby_2773
Date: 7/25/2009 1:08:44 PM

Author: Girlrocks

Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.



What is everyone''s experience?


i agree - that IS a lot. but then again the kids would be asleep for a lot of the time and the baby sitter wouldn''t be assuming a great deal of risk. the kids are in their own home and there''s little stress or risk involved.


however, in your situation the baby sitter had to transport and relocate them - a much more difficult scenario. and with 3 kids not her own, not always easy. they weren''t in their own home, they weren''t stationary...


i gotta say, for 3 kids for 2 hours, $30, doesn''t seem that much to me.

The going rate in my area is $10/hour. I only have one child but it does add up. Both my babysitters are my mom''s age but they seem very happy with $10/hour and that is the rate *they* requested. I agree with Whitby that $30 sounds reasonable for 3 kids for 2 hours. However it seems you have some trust issues and resentment with this family. My best advice would be to detach. If you feel like this friendship is toxic end it gracefully. If the moms friendship is important to you then you need to communicate better. Talk it out. Maybe the babysitter did just misunderstand. Maybe she was taking advantage of you. Only she has these answers.
 
"I hv fwdd ur email..." was enough to make me go "Wt*..?!"
Trust issue is a deal killer for me.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 12:48:20 PM
Author: Girlrocks
Date: 7/25/2009 11:33:04 AM

Author: gaby06

I understand that she should had return the change and then get paid, but you did not pay her eather. I think this is a whole misunderstood. She forgot to give the change and you forgot to paid. Before make the assumption that she just kept the money, just ask her how much was from the icecream and gas, maybe actually the change was enough for to get her paid.


I just feel a bit sad how you are accusing this young lady of stoling from your daughter, when you did not pay her for her work.
Ok, more info needed:


I am giving her an Eddie Bauer highchair for her baby. Part of what her mom and I worked out is that when she dropped the kids off after the movie, she would pick up the highchair, since she did not have enough room in the car for all of it. However, after the park, she did not even bring my kids home, she took them to her mom''s house and they walked home by themselves. I sent her a text right away thanking her for taking them and telling her to come right over so that I could pay her and give her a high chair, She responded ''k''. (This was before I found out that my daughters did not have any change).


Then on Friday morning, I stopped by her house to pay her, get my change and give her the highchair...she peeked out the window at me but would not open the door. I knocked for about 10 minutes. Then left. I sent her a text asking to know when would be a good time Friday to get together, she did not respond.


I was planning to pay her $25 for the 2 hours. I think that is reasonable. The fact that she kept them out an extra hour because she was visiting with her grandmother was her choice. I don''t think I should have to pay her for that. And I have ALWAYS paid babysitters at the end of the sitting, and everyone that I know does also. I think she figured out that she got a better deal by keeping the money that was for the movie rather than what I was planning to pay her.


And obviously this girl needs the money more than I do, that''s obvious. However, I just don''t like how shady her and her mom are acting. I let her borrow all of my maternity cloths, which have not been returned, I gave her all of my girl cloths which is A LOT since I have 4; and since she has had the baby I pick up diapers/wipes/formula/food etc. weekly when I am doing my grocery shopping and delivered them to her house.


Here is the whole principle for me...I gave her money for an outing with the understanding that she would get paid afterwards. She should have dropped my kids off, given me my change and let me decide how much I was going to pay her.


I would suggest not to mix business with this friends, this people seem to like to take and take and don''t give back. If someone was helping me that much I will offer to baby-sit for free.

They don''t seem to appreciate all your help, If you want to help them, just help them, but don''t exepect any appreciation from them.

The only think that I don''t like, was the really strong words you used. She took your kids out, bought them ice-cream, and kept the change. Considering 15ice-cream 5gas 25for baby-sit, that is 45 usd. I feel it''s too stong to say that she stole money from you, when we are talking of 5 usd.
 
Money and friendships are dangerous to mix.

BTW, the payment amount should be agreed to before the work IMHO.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 9:31:05 AM
Author:Girlrocks
Anyone remember my post a few weeks ago about my 'friend' who gave me the 7 year old Ruth Chris' gift card for my birthday?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/really-ticked-off-at-best-friend-what-should-i-do.117297/

I work from home. I had a teleconference on Thursday from 1:30-3:30pm. My friend has a 20 year old daughter who just had a baby about 6 weeks ago. I know that she needs money, so I asked her if she would be interested in taking my kids to the pool for those 2 hours and I would pay her. She agreed.

It rained. I called her mother to ask what plan B was, the mother said that her daughter decided she wanted to take them to a movie instead. Fine. I kept my youngest at home since that is nap time anyway. She had my older 3. I gave my 9 year old $50 for the movie, snacks, etc. I was planning to pay the babysitter after she got home. Off they go....

3 hours later they return. She didn't take them to a movie, says they got to the mall 10 minutes after it started (I don't know how, they left 45 min before the movie started and the mall is 20 min away). She took them to her grandmother's house which has a large park next door to play at. Then she took them for an ice cream and came home.

I asked my daughter for the change, says she gave the money to the babysitter when she got in the car for the movie so it wouldn't be lost. The babysitter did not give me any money back.

DH and I both believe that my daughter gave her the $50 when they got in the car, and she purposely did not take them to the movie so that she could keep the money. We all know that the first 15 min of a movie are ads and trailers, so going in 10 min late would have been no big deal anyway, had that really happened. How much could ice cream for 3 kids cost...$10 MAX, which means she pocketed $40 for 2 hours of babysitting.

I e-mailed my 'friend' this morning to ask if her daughter had any change for me; her response 'I have forwarded your e-mail to her.' WTF??? Aren't you her mother? (BTW...this entire situation was arranged by her mother and I; I never spoke to the daughter directly until she came to drop them off afterwards.)

DH is LIVID to say the least. He seriously wants to go over there today and tell this whole family off.

What should I do at this point?
It sounds to me as if the sitter was in the wrong and taking the proverbial **** as well as the money, so I would end this so called friendship as gracefully as you can and find a new sitter. Grrrrr.
 
Holy smokes-some friend! I agree with the others about letting it go and detaching yourself from that family. Sounds to me like you''ll have nothing but issues instead of friendship.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 1:08:44 PM
Author: Girlrocks
Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.

What is everyone''s experience?
That would be pretty expensive. My daughter babysat for a while in her teens, and she got more money for more than one child. She would definitely get at least $15/hour for 3 kids, and often got more. Now, she was super ideal as she would cook dinner if necessary and clean up nicely, was well behaved and was very responsible in general. She often got $20/hour for 2-4 hour jobs in our neighbourhood, which is primarily young families.
 
well if the 2nd part is tuesday I think I *would* have her babysit again for 2 hours... after all $40 for 3 kids for 4 hours is in the realm of reasonable - but I wouldn''t give her any more money for it.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 1:08:44 PM
Author: Girlrocks
Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.


What is everyone''s experience?

About $10 an hour here... I know that seems a lot, but I reason that someone who is caring for my most precious beings should be at least getting minimum wage... and a few bucks more is easier to calculate lol I think as low as $5 and as high as $15 are reasonable as well. And if you are doing something to help someone out, I could see going to the higher end of the spectrum.
 
I don''t have any advice, I just think it''s between you and your friend''s Daughter.. FWIW my DD gets $20 an hour, but that''s up in Nantucket. She will be up there next month after working here all summer for Free, an internship in Real estate developmnet. So she is psyched to make some money during August and will charge $25 an hour because the demand is so high and she''s 21 and very responsible.. She''ll bank a lot of coin I''m sure.. And no one will blink an eye at that rate.. crazy I know..

I hope all works out for you, I think she took advantage of you big time, so I am seeing red flags all over this...
 
I think that $10-$12 is a fantastic amount. As a babysitter, I''ve been offered up to $20, but I never take it cause I think that''s ridiculous and way too much. If they insist on paying me a ridiculous amount, I will babysit the next time for free rather than feel like I''m nuking someone.
 
Date: 7/25/2009 1:46:51 PM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 7/25/2009 1:08:44 PM
Author: Girlrocks
Well now my curiousity has me wondering...what is the going rate for a teenage babysitter? For example, you and your DH go out to dinner and the movies, maybe from 6pm-11pm, what would you pay? $15 per hour would = $75...that seems like a lot to me.


What is everyone''s experience?

i agree - that IS a lot. but then again the kids would be asleep for a lot of the time and the baby sitter wouldn''t be assuming a great deal of risk. the kids are in their own home and there''s little stress or risk involved.

however, in your situation the baby sitter had to transport and relocate them - a much more difficult scenario. and with 3 kids not her own, not always easy. they weren''t in their own home, they weren''t stationary...

i gotta say, for 3 kids for 2 hours, $30, doesn''t seem that much to me.
I agree, but let me just clarify...she did not NEED to transport them anywhere. She was suppose to take them to our neighborhood pool, which is within walking distance (I can see it from my front yard). Since it rained, I called and asked her to just come to my house, but my friend said that she wanted to take them to the movies. That was not the original plan.
 
FWIW- I get paid $12.00/hr for three girls, ages 1, 3, and 5. $10 if they''re sleeping, or $10 if I''m only watching 1 or 2, instead of all 3 at a time. And the family is well-to-do, not that that should make a huge difference.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies! It's been a real eye opener to find out the differences of what babysitters make! (I think I'll quit my day job and move to Nantucket!)
2.gif


I guess I wasn't too off to think $25 was reasonable for 2 hours. I guess it's just that monetary screw ups keep happening and this is kind of an "icing on the cake" thing.

I appreciate that when I asked for advice, I got it, even though some may not have been 100% on my side. Thanks again for the insight!

I've decided to drop it, she obviously needs the $ more than I, and I will continue to deliver items for the baby since that is who needs it the most. But I will stay far away from situations that involve $ in the future.
 
Good decision!! and good luck!
 
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