Advice needed about my 18 year old (mentally handicapped) sister''s "boy" problem

[robbie3982]

I have an 18-year-old sister who is both mentally and physically handicapped. This is her senior year in high school (special needs school) and my mom frequently takes her to dances specifically for disabled kids her age. There is no real supervision at these dances. The parents generally stay and hang out, but usually in a separate room, meaning the DJ is sometimes the only responsible (how responsible I don''t know) adult there.

There''s a cover charge to get in, but apparently there''s no age limit as an "older" (described that way by my 61 year old mother, she guessed 50) mentally handicapped man frequents these dances. And apparently he has a thing for my 18-year-old sister, frequently asking her to slow dance.

My mom was aware that my sister dances with this man and it made her uncomfortable, but she didn''t know what to do/say since there''s really nothing wrong with dancing. Well, a grandmother of one of the other kids recently approached my mom to tell her that she has twice had to go and say something to this guy when my mom wasn''t there because he''s been dancing inappropriately with my sister. My mom asked my sister about it and she knew that the grandmother had talked to him (she was there when it happened after all), but she didn''t seem to have any understanding as to why what he was doing was wrong.

My mom told me all of this this morning and asked me what she should do. She feels like she can''t tell my dad since he''d go BSC (bat @#$%^ crazy for those of you unsure) on this guy and she''s right, he would. She said she doesn''t think this guy is a child molester or anything like that, but she does think that, like my sister, he just doesn''t understand that this is NOT appropriate behavior. She doesn''t want to make my sister stop going since she really enjoys socializing and it helps her to feel like a "normal" teen. I told her she needs to find out who''s in charge of the dance and make them enforce an age limit, but she''s adamant that no one is actually in charge and they just kind of run themselves.

I''m at a loss. Any suggestions?

 

[MonkeyPie]

It''s strange that they never had anyone supervising these dances - even the ones -I- had in high school were totally supervised, and it wasn''t special needs at all. That isn''t to say that the kids would act up or anything, just that as teenagers, we all need some watching, heh.

Your mom needs to take steps to ensure that in the future, SOMEONE is there. She is fully within her rights to request it, and if they honestly try to tell her no (I can''t imagine why they would - a 50 year old man, handicapped or not, is more than a little disturbing at a teenagers dance), she needs to leave the "adult" room and supervise herself. I bet if she told some of the other mothers she normally stays in the other room with, they would be willing to join her when they realized it could get out of hand.

 

[drk]

If I were your Mom, I think I'd stay in the dance hall and chaperone myself, or see if there was anyone in charge (who's collecting the cover charge?) who could organize a couple chaperones to keep an eye on things. I'd stay off to the side, but be able to intervene if anything inappropriate happens. I would tell this guy to keep away from her, and see that some appropriate age limit (21 or 22?) was put on these teenage dances.

I (not that I have any experience in the area) would think about doing some role-playing with my daughter, in the hopes that I could teach her what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't. She'll need to look out for herself as well, particularly if she's attractive enough to already be catching boys' eyes. I'd also want to be sure she was on birth control of some sort, so that if somebody eventually did end up taking advantage of her innocent nature, she at least wouldn't get pregnant from it.

Hope things turn out ok, without your Dad going BSC on anyone! I'm all in favour of openness and honesty in a relationship, and would probably want to tell my DH as well, preferably in a way that didn't make him go instantly nuts.

ETA: OK, just read that he's 50. That's just wrong. No way, handicapped or not, should he be at a teenager's dance.

 

[somethingshiny]

I am shocked that it''s unsupervised. I''m on your mom''s side with not wanting to make your sis not be able to go, so I think your mom needs to take it upon herself to supervise.

My SIL works with mentally handicapped individuals and anytime there''s a function, 2-3 of the case workers supervise. I''d look into something along those lines.

I think it''s wonderful that these social dances are being held. I do hope they can continue.

 

[lulu]

When this guy asks your sister to dance can''t she refuse him? Or would it create a scene? I just wouldn''t dance with the guy anymore.

 

[february2003bride]

I think your mom should start a chaperone committee and enforce an age limit. Even highschool teenage dances have supervision. And honestly, I think your dad should know and should probably be one of the chaperones. If a 50 year old man who doesn''t understand limits is crossing the line, a BSC dad is more of an impact than your mom or a Grandmother

And I wouldn''t assume the older man doesn''t understand boundaries either. He very clearly could understand them and is just choosing to ignore them because your sister is disabled.

 

[Kaleigh]

I think the school should only allow students to go to these dances. If I were your Mom I''d make the school aware of this man and see what can be done??

 

[robbie3982]

Monkey, I thought it was strange that there''s no supervision as well! I''ll suggest to her that the moms all come chaperone. I have a feeling that the reason they''re not already is to try to give the kids some space and sense of normalcy. Most of them are very aware of how they''re treated differently from siblings (no moms at siblings'' prom for example) and I''m guessing the parents felt this was a safe place for them.

Drk, good suggestion about role playing! I''ll suggest it to my mom. I talked to her last year about getting my sister on some kind of bc. At first she thought it was ridiculous, but then a few weeks later she told me she would be asking her Dr. about the shot. I suggested she look into something longer term like mirena. I''ll have to follow up and make sure she actually got her on something. I worry about what would happen if someone took advantage of her and she got pregnant. I''m all in favor of open and honest relationships and would 100% tell DH if we were ever in this situation, but my dad is frequently just not rational and constantly does things out of anger that he regrets (this topic could be a whole other post) and, in this case, it''s definitely best that he just doesn''t know. As for my sister turning heads, that''s part of the problem too. According to my mom, this guy is the ONLY guy who ever asks my sister to dance. I went to one dance and did see her dancing with someone else though so I don''t know if that was just a fluke or if my mom just doesn''t pay as close attention as she thinks she does. It''s not that my sister isn''t pretty, she''s just shy. The boys weren''t exactly begging me to dance with them in hs either. I just learned to force myself to be outgoing and ask THEM to dance, lol.

Somethingshiny, hmmm, you bring up a good point. This man must have someone who at least looks in on him. I wonder if my mom could maybe find out who that is and talk to them.

 

[robbie3982]

Lulu, part of the problem is that my sister doesn''t understand that dancing with him is inappropriate.

Feb, good point. I guess there really is no way to know what he does or doesn''t understand. That just makes my stomach turn even more to think that someone would fake being mentally handicapped to take advantage of a teenager.

Kaleigh, the dances aren''t through the school, which is definitely adding to the problem.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 11/2/2009 1:59:15 PM
Author: february2003bride
I think your mom should start a chaperone committee and enforce an age limit. Even highschool teenage dances have supervision. And honestly, I think your dad should know and should probably be one of the chaperones. If a 50 year old man who doesn''t understand limits is crossing the line, a BSC dad is more of an impact than your mom or a Grandmother

And I wouldn''t assume the older man doesn''t understand boundaries either. He very clearly could understand them and is just choosing to ignore them because your sister is disabled.

He''s mentally handicapped as well so he could very well not understand that this behavior is not acceptable or doesn''t understand that he is much older than these students in these dances.

But I do agree with starting a chaperone committee. I think that''s a great idea. I would imagine that the other parents would like to help especially if they knew that this older man was coming around. Is he the only older person that goes to the dance?

As for your sister, would a conversation about personal space and how others need to respect her personal space be a good idea for her?

 

[decodelighted]

HOW inappropriate is the behavior ... do you know? Does it fall into the "freaking" category that might be seen at *any* high school dance ... albeit not with 50 year olds. Or is he "getting handsy"?

I can''t believe the school doesn''t worry about possible legal consequences here.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

This is very interesting...because of two facts that may or may not be relevant....

Is it possible that, since this is a dance for a mentally and physically challenged people, that he is in fact 50---but not 50 mentally? That perchance he is about her age in terms of mental maturity and therefore they relate to each other? And if that is the case, does it still come off as wrong or is it merely 2 people relating to each other? If he isn''t mentally 50...is he still 50? Does it carry the same weight as it would if the circumstances were different?

Also, your sister is 18. I don''t know anything about her condition...but if we''re speaking strictly in terms of years, bringing no other variables into it, then she''s legally an adult and can dance with whomever she chooses to...

Personally I believe that your mother should do whatever she comfortable with. If that means staying at the dance to oversee their interaction...then so be it. She needs to watch out for her daughter, and I think that anyone can respect that.

 

[robbie3982]

Fiery, from the way my mom was talking about it, I think this man is the only non-teen who attends the dances (other than the parents). A conversation about personal space would be kind of hit or miss with her. She''s a smart girl, so I think she''d understand the concept, but I don''t know that she would understand how to apply it in a real life situation if that makes sense. She also doesn''t like conflict, so even if she understood, I don''t know that she''d be comfortable confronting him if he did something.

Deco, I''m not sure if she''s talking about grinding or him actually having his hand on her butt or something, but either way, not appropriate. Problem is it''s not through the school.

Italia, that''s an interesting way of thinking about it. I guess if you have the mentality of an 18 year old, it wouldn''t matter how much life experience you had, you''d still mentally be an 18 year old. As for my sister being a legal adult, I don''t think she actually is, but now you have me curious about how that works. I''m going to have to ask my mom about that when I pick up DS after work.

 

[purrfectpear]

I was thinking the same thing as Italia. Depending on the mental ability, some people may never progress beyond age 10 or 13, and it seems a shame to say to them "sorry, you''re 21 now...no more fun for you", when they''ll never be adult much less middle aged in their mindset.

However, I think your mom needs to understand that SHE is responsible for the well being of your sister. Not the DJ, not some chaperone, not an arbitrary age limit. She should be ashamed that strangers had to speak up for her daughter IMO.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Personally I think this is a horrifying situation. No one knows who this guy is. It''s just assumed he''s disabled like the kids. Someone needs to do a little more background into his situation if he''s going to be around the other kids. Your sister might be 18, but are the all of the other girls? In addition, I don''t believe she''s legally considered an adult (or one capable of consent) if she''s under the care of your parents due to a mental impairment. Have you been to one of these dances? Would you be willing to go see what''s going on for yourself? I know you''ve got your own family to take care of but I''d hate to see this go unchecked and have something happen to your sister or another kid at the dance. Just because your father doesn''t know about it and can''t react to the situation doesn''t mean another father won''t hear about a similar situation and act on it. So for his sake as well as your sister''s, someone needs to find out what''s really going on. At face value a 50 year old, regardless of his mental age has no business socializing in a romantic manner with an 18 year old.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 11/2/2009 3:57:57 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Personally I think this is a horrifying situation. No one knows who this guy is. It''s just assumed he''s disabled like the kids. Someone needs to do a little more background into his situation if he''s going to be around the other kids. Your sister might be 18, but are the all of the other girls? In addition, I don''t believe she''s legally considered an adult (or one capable of consent) if she''s under the care of your parents due to a mental impairment. Have you been to one of these dances? Would you be willing to go see what''s going on for yourself? I know you''ve got your own family to take care of but I''d hate to see this go unchecked and have something happen to your sister or another kid at the dance. Just because your father doesn''t know about it and can''t react to the situation doesn''t mean another father won''t hear about a similar situation and act on it. So for his sake as well as your sister''s, someone needs to find out what''s really going on. At face value a 50 year old, regardless of his mental age has no business socializing in a romantic manner with an 18 year old.

+1

 

[iheartscience]

Yikes, tough situation. I agree with the others who suggested a rotating set of parent chaperones. All the dances for teenagers I've ever been to or heard of were absolutely chaperoned. In my high school it was by the teachers, but in middle school I'm pretty sure parents rotated. Maybe the moms can explain that to their kids. It seems crazy to me that no one has been chaperoning a bunch of teenagers at a dance, regardless of their mental abilities.

And how is the dance marketed? For students/teenagers, young adults, etc.? I think there should be a table at the door and someone (one of the rotating parental chaperones, perhaps) should check IDs of the people getting in to make sure they're all under a certain age, whether that's 18, 21, etc. The dance is given so these kids feel like regular teenagers, right? Most 50 year olds don't have access to teenagers' dances so I think it's perfectly reasonable to not allow this guy in from now on, especially considering the fact that he is being inappropriate with younger girls.

Also I know you mentioned that your sister doesn't realize it's inappropriate to dance with a much older man. Is that because she lacks the mental capabilities to understand that, or is it because your parents haven't explained that to her? If she could understand if it was explained to her, then obviously I think your mom needs to explain it to her immediately. Maybe something along the lines of only dancing and talking to students her age, not people that look older like her dad/uncle/teacher? (Obviously I know nothing about your sister's handicap so this may not be helpful at all!)

Good luck-I hope your mom and the other parents can come up with a safer way to let these kids have fun.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 11/2/2009 3:57:57 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Personally I think this is a horrifying situation. No one knows who this guy is. It's just assumed he's disabled like the kids. Someone needs to do a little more background into his situation if he's going to be around the other kids. Your sister might be 18, but are the all of the other girls? In addition, I don't believe she's legally considered an adult (or one capable of consent) if she's under the care of your parents due to a mental impairment. Have you been to one of these dances? Would you be willing to go see what's going on for yourself? I know you've got your own family to take care of but I'd hate to see this go unchecked and have something happen to your sister or another kid at the dance. Just because your father doesn't know about it and can't react to the situation doesn't mean another father won't hear about a similar situation and act on it. So for his sake as well as your sister's, someone needs to find out what's really going on. At face value a 50 year old, regardless of his mental age has no business socializing in a romantic manner with an 18 year old.

I think you brought up a valid point...

If an 18 year old female is under the care of her parents due to mental impairments is therefore not considered an adult...then shouldn't a 50 year old man under the care of others due to his mental impairment be given the same consideration?

I'm not saying it's right...nor am I saying I'm not concerned...but I am interested in the dynamics at work here. If he is mentally handicapped, then it's not black and white or cut and dry. Age may really be just a number under these circumstances and it's worth looking deeper into before making a snap decision.

Let us also not forget the at the messenger here is an elderly woman. Prehaps her view of this dancing is jaded, and what she considers "over the line" is really in line with current dancing? Who knows. I think someone needs to get involved and see for themselves before making any snap judgements.

In my mind this girl has a concerned parent who loves her and wants to care for her. I also see a 50 year old man who is probably lonely and looking for friendship with someone who relates to him on his level. These two dynamics are in direct odds here in this is senario. I wish everyone involved the absolute best.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 11/2/2009 7:56:18 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 11/2/2009 3:57:57 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

Personally I think this is a horrifying situation. No one knows who this guy is. It''s just assumed he''s disabled like the kids. Someone needs to do a little more background into his situation if he''s going to be around the other kids. Your sister might be 18, but are the all of the other girls? In addition, I don''t believe she''s legally considered an adult (or one capable of consent) if she''s under the care of your parents due to a mental impairment. Have you been to one of these dances? Would you be willing to go see what''s going on for yourself? I know you''ve got your own family to take care of but I''d hate to see this go unchecked and have something happen to your sister or another kid at the dance. Just because your father doesn''t know about it and can''t react to the situation doesn''t mean another father won''t hear about a similar situation and act on it. So for his sake as well as your sister''s, someone needs to find out what''s really going on. At face value a 50 year old, regardless of his mental age has no business socializing in a romantic manner with an 18 year old.

I think you brought up a valid point...


If an 18 year old female is under the care of her parents due to mental impairments is therefore not considered an adult...then shouldn''t a 50 year old man under the care of others due to his mental impairment be given the same consideration?


I''m not saying it''s right...nor am I saying I''m not concerned...but I am interested in the dynamics at work here. If he is mentally handicapped, then it''s not black and white or cut and dry. Age may really be just a number under these circumstances and it''s worth looking deeper into before making a snap decision.


Let us also not forget the at the messenger here is an elderly woman. Prehaps her view of this dancing is jaded, and what she considers ''over the line'' is really in line with current dancing? Who knows. I think someone needs to get involved and see for themselves before making any snap judgements.


In my mind this girl has a concerned parent who loves her and wants to care for her. I also see a 50 year old man who is probably lonely and looking for friendship with someone who relates to him on his level. These two dynamics are in direct odds here in this is senario. I wish everyone involved the absolute best.

Um...since when is 60 considered elderly? And no one knows this man. 50 years old was an estimate. For all we know he could be Joe Schmo off the street who isn''t handicapped and just likes dancing with teenagers. Perhaps he''s smart enough to pretend he''s handicapped when someone speaks to him. Robbie''s sister is impaired, she''s an invalid. I don''t know her or her condition, but I have to assume she understands and enjoys the attention of a man and certainly an older man. My issue is that if he''s really a 50 year old mentally handicapped man, then chances are he''s in an assisted living facility or other type of home. Where are the other residents? Where are the helpers from the home? The situation just doesn''t add up to me. Maybe I''m just a cynic, but something is very off here.

If it were a chaperoned situation where it was known for a fact that this guy was on the same level as Robbie''s sister, then I''d possibly feel different. I do agree that the appropriateness will vary if they can relate to each other that way. However, given that there are so many unknowns in the situation, I wouldn''t be comfortable with letting it continue as it is.

 

[robbie3982]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I didn''t get to talk to my mom for very long yesterday because my sister was home from school and she didn''t want to talk about it in front of her. My mom seemed a lot less concerned in the afternoon than she had in the morning, so I think I''m really going to have to push her to do something about it. I''m thinking about calling her best friend (whose handicapped son is friends with my sister and also goes to these dances) to ask her opinion and try to get her to help my mom do something about the situation. My mom tends to be very naive and is now "sure" that this man is handicapped and from some type of group home, but she doesn''t really know and the fact that the situation gave her a bad feeling gives me a bad feeling.

Drk, thanks again for bringing up the bc issue. I asked my mom what had happened with that and apparently nothing has. I''m going to stay on her case about that too.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Robbie-Desmond is so cute! I love that picture of him

 

[drk]

I hope that your Mom''s friend can be a help to you as well - I think it''s a great idea to get the two of them talking, since a couple of concerned parents might well be able to talk to the others at the next dance and bring about some good changes/monitoring. Though I really think that the organizer who charges the cover fee ought to provide non-parental chaperones. The kids would probably be less annoyed to have some friendly non-relative keeping an eye on things.

I think your idea about the Mirena or other long-acting BC method is a good idea. The pill likely won''t work, just too much remembering to do. I was thinking either Depo-Provera or the Mirena. Depends if your sis has had gyne exams before, and how she''d tolerate IUD insertion vs just getting a shot once every three months.

Good luck to finding a resolution. I think if your Mom was uncomfortable enough yesterday morning to speak to you about this, you''re very right to not let her find a way to downplay it now.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 11/3/2009 7:53:13 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 11/2/2009 7:56:18 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 11/2/2009 3:57:57 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

Personally I think this is a horrifying situation. No one knows who this guy is. It''s just assumed he''s disabled like the kids. Someone needs to do a little more background into his situation if he''s going to be around the other kids. Your sister might be 18, but are the all of the other girls? In addition, I don''t believe she''s legally considered an adult (or one capable of consent) if she''s under the care of your parents due to a mental impairment. Have you been to one of these dances? Would you be willing to go see what''s going on for yourself? I know you''ve got your own family to take care of but I''d hate to see this go unchecked and have something happen to your sister or another kid at the dance. Just because your father doesn''t know about it and can''t react to the situation doesn''t mean another father won''t hear about a similar situation and act on it. So for his sake as well as your sister''s, someone needs to find out what''s really going on. At face value a 50 year old, regardless of his mental age has no business socializing in a romantic manner with an 18 year old.

I think you brought up a valid point...


If an 18 year old female is under the care of her parents due to mental impairments is therefore not considered an adult...then shouldn''t a 50 year old man under the care of others due to his mental impairment be given the same consideration?


I''m not saying it''s right...nor am I saying I''m not concerned...but I am interested in the dynamics at work here. If he is mentally handicapped, then it''s not black and white or cut and dry. Age may really be just a number under these circumstances and it''s worth looking deeper into before making a snap decision.


Let us also not forget the at the messenger here is an elderly woman. Prehaps her view of this dancing is jaded, and what she considers ''over the line'' is really in line with current dancing? Who knows. I think someone needs to get involved and see for themselves before making any snap judgements.


In my mind this girl has a concerned parent who loves her and wants to care for her. I also see a 50 year old man who is probably lonely and looking for friendship with someone who relates to him on his level. These two dynamics are in direct odds here in this is senario. I wish everyone involved the absolute best.

Um...since when is 60 considered elderly? And no one knows this man. 50 years old was an estimate. For all we know he could be Joe Schmo off the street who isn''t handicapped and just likes dancing with teenagers. Perhaps he''s smart enough to pretend he''s handicapped when someone speaks to him. Robbie''s sister is impaired, she''s an invalid. I don''t know her or her condition, but I have to assume she understands and enjoys the attention of a man and certainly an older man. My issue is that if he''s really a 50 year old mentally handicapped man, then chances are he''s in an assisted living facility or other type of home. Where are the other residents? Where are the helpers from the home? The situation just doesn''t add up to me. Maybe I''m just a cynic, but something is very off here.

If it were a chaperoned situation where it was known for a fact that this guy was on the same level as Robbie''s sister, then I''d possibly feel different. I do agree that the appropriateness will vary if they can relate to each other that way. However, given that there are so many unknowns in the situation, I wouldn''t be comfortable with letting it continue as it is.

My mother is almost 60...and I can say for certain that her idea of dancing differs greatly from my own. What I consider to be harmless is on her radar as over the top. It''s just the difference in age and exposure that creates our gap.

I would like to believe, and am forming an opinion under the pretense, that there is some sort of proof that this man is mentally disabled (someone has to be letting these people in at the door, right?)--maybe that is naive of me but I have a hard time doubting that he''s not disabled. I am also drawing my conclusion that he is rightly at this dance because this is his social interaction, these are his peers, and this is his sort of fun. If any of this is proven to be untrue, then he''s disgusting...but until then I can only work with the facts. Maybe I take it all at face value to easily

And I totally agree with you...questions need to answered, and someone from here on out needs to be accountable for those attending the dance who may not be making the wisest choices. There should be structure at these dances and a sense of community amoung the adults who send their children/charges there to socialize. The parents or chaperones should be proactive about this issue for sure. However, I think that needs to be balanced with the fact that this is essentially the attendees opportunity to "let loose". I can only imagine the structured life they lead because of their limitations...this may be the counter balance to that.

I don''t know...I think there is so many dynamics that could go either way here that it''s hard to draw a firm conclusion as of yet.

 

[robbie3982]

Thanks, Hudson_Hawk!

Drk, depo is one of the other methods my mom was considering.